Brad Johnson: Stu, what’s up, my man? Welcome to the show.
Stu McLaren: Buddy, it’s great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Brad Johnson: Well, this one we’ve been trying to align calendars for a bit, and so I’m excited we made this happen. And we were kind of pre-gaming here. I’m like, “I don’t even know where to go.” We could talk life. We could talk our trip to Africa with our families. We could talk technology, we could talk memberships, communities, and you’re a man that we can go a lot of different directions. So, I always enjoy every conversation we have.
Stu McLaren: Well, I’ll let you take the lead, but here’s what I know. There is a lot that we can explore. And, for me, I think about, as entrepreneurs, we’re always navigating a lot of stuff. We’re always trying to grow the business, yes. We’re always trying to improve ourselves, yes. We’re always trying to show up for our families and our communities. So, there are all kinds of things that are on our shoulders all the time, and I think that’s why a conversation like this is relevant because we can touch on all different areas and discuss the things.
Brad Johnson: Well, let’s kind of kick this off. When I first met you, it’s been, I guess, just a little over a decade ago, around 2015, through our mutual friend, Michael Hyatt. It was a cool season of your life. You were married, you had young kids, but you had just sold, I mean, I don’t know if it was your first business, but it was your first kind of big exit, WishList Member. And those unfamiliar, it was one of the first, if not the first, membership communities, or how to build membership communities online. So, you’d really grown up in this cool era of online entrepreneurs when it was just becoming a thing. And so, for those unfamiliar, you really kind of, in the trenches, figured out how to build communities online.
I’m sure there are a lot of lessons that came from that that still apply today. But if you were going to give advice to a financial advisor out there trying to figure out what’s the secret ingredient to building communities, what would be some things you would share?
Stu McLaren: Well, I think at the end of the day, a community is the moat that protects your business from all competition. Because when people feel like they belong to something, it has so much more substance than a straight-up transaction. It’s a relationship at that point. And relationships are the moat for our business, especially even more so now in the day and age of AI, where AI’s automating so much and it’s removing so much of the “things in the past” that used to be valuable, like our information. That just isn’t the case anymore. So, relationships and community become even more important in our businesses. And what I would say is that when it comes to a community that’s sticky, retention isn’t built at renewal. It’s built in the first 30 days. And so, what makes somebody feel like they are a part of a community is a sense of belonging, a sense of direction, like they know where this is going, and a sense of connection. So, there’s a few things that I encourage people to think about whenever they’re designing a community, and they all center around that first 30 days. First things first is clarity. So, when people join a community, they need to be clear as far as what this community is about and how will their life be better or different as a result of joining this community. If you can’t explain that clearly, then it’s going to muddy the waters. And what often happens is people will get in, and they’ll poke around and they’ll be like, “Ah,” didn’t find the thing they want, and they’re gone.
So, clarity’s really important. They need to know what is the objective of this community, why are we here, and where do I fit in this journey. So, where should I put my focus right now? Because everybody that joins the community is not all equal. Some are going to be in the early stages. Some are going to be further along. And so, those people are different, and so we want to be able to direct them accordingly. So, clarity is really important. What is the purpose of this membership and community? Where are we taking people, and where does somebody fit, and what should they focus on? That’s number one, clarity.
Number two is connection. So, Brad, I was sharing with you that the house that we moved into here right now, when we moved to this area, we didn’t know anybody. This was a brand new area, so that meant our kids were going to a brand new school. And there are always challenges. Any parent watching and listening can understand that, like kids are nervous. We’re nervous because the kids are nervous. All we want is just for them to feel settled, you know? And so, I remember that first day. We walked the kids to school, and we dropped them off, and Amy and I are like, “Please, just let this be a good day for them.” And fast forward to the end of the day, we go, we pick them up, and I’m just kind of watching for who comes out first. And Marla, our daughter, comes out.
And she’s got this big smile on her face, and I was like, “Oh yes, this is a good sign.” So, she comes running out, and I’m like, “How’s the school?” She’s like, “Dad, this is the best school ever.” I’m like, “Really?” I’m like, “Tell me why.” She’s like, “Well, you know how I used to go to Montessori school?” And I said, “Yeah.” She’s like, “There’s a girl in my class that used to go to Montessori school too.” I’m like, “Oh my gosh, you got that in common.” She’s like, “Dad, it gets better.” I’m like, “How?” She said, “Well, you know how I love riding horses.” “Yeah.” “She rides too.” I’m like, “What?” I’m like, “What a coincidence.” She’s like, “But dad, you know the new stable that I’m riding at?” “Yeah.” “Her mom owns the stable.” I’m like, “What?”
I’m like, “Are you kidding me?” She’s like, “Dad, this is the best school ever.” Timeout. That had nothing to do with the school. Everything that was framed up in her mind that this was the best school ever had everything to do with the fact that she made one meaningful connection, and in a community, that’s all it takes. All it takes is one meaningful connection and relationship. So, when somebody joins a community, we want to help them get connected as quickly as possible. We want to introduce them to others in the community. We want to introduce others to them. We want to help facilitate connection, and we want people to feel a sense of belonging because at the end of the day, if all they do is develop one meaningful relationship, it can frame up in their mind what a great experience this is.
So, first things first, clarity. Second thing is connection. And the third thing would be results. And what I mean by that is, typically, people are joining a community because they’re wanting to better their lives in some aspect. And so, what we want to focus on in that first 30 days is to help them build momentum toward that bigger, better, brighter future. And often we think it’s got to be huge wins. It doesn’t. It just needs to be forward progress because that forward progress creates a sense of momentum, and that feels good. And that feeling is what keeps people moving. And in all the years that I’ve been doing this, Brad, I have never, ever heard of somebody leaving a community because they’re experiencing too much success.
Like, I’ve never heard anybody say, “You know what, Brad, it’s been great, but I’m out of here because I just can’t stand succeeding like I am in your community. I’m out.” Like, nobody ever says that. So, in a community, if all we focus on is just helping people make forward progress, then they will stay. And so, in that first 30 days, I love to get people quick wins as much as possible. So, first 30 days, focus on those three things. Clarity, helping people know what the vision is and where they’re at in that journey. Number two is connection. Help them build one meaningful relationship. And number three, results, help them get one quick win in that first 30 days, and you will see your retention skyrocket. Those are the heart and soul of what makes a great community, especially in the first 30 days.
Brad Johnson: It’s like you teach this stuff or something, man.
Stu McLaren: I’ve been around the block.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. So, I’m looking through the lens. If I’m an advisor out there watching or listening in, clarity, it’s interesting because I think our industry hasn’t always been good at not talking in jargon and kind of watered-down language like, “Oh, I built a financial plan.” Well, congratulations, you and every other financial advisor in the country, right?
Stu McLaren: Right.
Brad Johnson: So, that clarity could be a little bit more of like here’s the way we get you from where you are to where you want to go, and here’s our proprietary process. We coach a lot on that, like branding it to your business, but what really stuck, the connection piece. Because I look at most of our members, they work with retirees and pre-retirees. And if I look at that season in life, most of them are leaving the known for the unknown. “Here’s my coworkers I’ve had for 20, 30 years, here’s all these friends, and I’m retiring, and I don’t see them every day like I used to.” So, that idea of connecting them to this new world where they’re not the new kid in class like your daughter was, that’s really cool because a lot of our members, a lot of advisors out there already run client events.
They do really wine tastings, rent out movie theaters, be a super grandparent on us. So, they’re already doing a lot of that, but I don’t think they’re probably intentionally doing that connection piece with other members of the community. So, do you have certain businesses that you’ve coached where they do that really, really well, that no new kids rule?
Stu McLaren: Yeah, I’ll give you an example. So, you talk about renting out a movie theater. So, our bank recently did this, and we do a lot of business with our bank. We got an invite. And I took our son, Sam, my brother-in-law, and his son, so my nephew, to the movies. So, it was a screening of The Super Mario.
Brad Johnson: Wait, is this a movie night out with Andrew? I have to know.
Stu McLaren: No, it wasn’t with Andrew. It was with Amy’s brother. It was with Amy’s brother, Jack. Yeah. Okay. So, we go to the movies, and it was the screening of the Super Mario Bros. movie. So, kids were like they were all into it. So, anyway, we get there. Adrian, our rep, he’s there, and he says hello. We connect, and we meet, and it was brief. It was just basically like, “Hello. We got our tickets.” And then they gave us tickets to like go get popcorn and all the things. We get into the theater. We sit down. Movie hasn’t started yet, so I go out to go to the washroom, and I see Adrian. So, we just started chatting. It was like a 5, 10-minute chat, and actually, it was nothing to do with business. He notices my running shoes, and he’s like, “I didn’t know it.”
He’s like, “Are you a runner?” I said, “Yeah.” He said, “When was your last run?” I said, “This morning.” He said, “How far did you go?” I was like, “10K.” He said, “I love how runners just like spit off that they just cranked out 10K, like it’s nothing.” And so, anyway, come to find out he’s in the midst of training for a marathon as well. So, we start jamming on that. We start talking about that. And then we start talking about AI. And I asked him. I said, “Has AI impacted your business?” And he said, “Actually, no.” He said, “Because my business is all relationships.” And so, we talk about that. And then the conversation wraps up. We say goodbye, and he says, “Oh, by the way,” he said, “If there are any areas of the business you need extra help with or whatever, just let me know.”
I said, “Actually, I could use some help on the tax advice stuff because I know we’re paying way more tax than we need to be.” He’s like, “No problem.” He said, “I’ll get you hooked up next week.” That was it. That portion of the conversation, the “business” portion, lasted maybe two minutes. The rest of it was all about like family, running, blah, blah, blah. I share that because relationships are the hardest, but easiest part of the equation. You just have to show interest in people. You just have to be curious about people, and you just have to find out what’s meaningful to them. And so, in Adrian’s case, what did he notice? He noticed my running shoes. They were a particular type of running shoes. And clearly, I’m going to be more of a serious runner with these shoes than I would be in anything else.
So, he followed that curiosity, dug a little deeper. Now, here’s how Adrian could take that to the next level. If he’s had those conversations with other people, other of his clients who may be in the area that are also runners, that would be an opportunity to say, “Hey, Stu, meet Dave. He, too, loves running on the trails. You guys actually don’t live far from each other. There’s a bunch of trails. You guys should go and connect and go for a trail run together.” That’s the kind of stuff that it just takes that little bit of extra effort, but it’s making that connection. And now it’s not just about Adrian, now it’s about like this network of people that I belong to, and that’s what makes that community more and more sticky.
And so, here’s the lesson. As financial advisors, one of the things that you want to do is you want to get curious about your clients, and you want to find what I call connection points. So, what are the things about that person that others could have in common? Maybe it’s their passions, maybe it’s their interests. Maybe it’s the fact that we have an adopted son from South Africa, and so now that’s a connection point because anybody who has an adopted child or is adopted, there’s an immediate connection there. Maybe it’s about athletics, like the running or CrossFit, or whatever it might be. Like, find those connection points. But the only way you can find them is if you get curious. And so, when somebody joins your community, find out about them, get curious about them, and then find the connection to others within your community and introduce them.
Brad Johnson: Love that. You mentioned a couple of times those first 30 days how important those are to every community. I would assume you have some sort of a playbook that you’ve refined over the years that creates that clarity, that connection, obviously, the result, some form of a result in the first 30 days. Is there anything as we start to look at kind of the checkpoints in that first 30 days that are really important to make sure they happen, no matter what?
Stu McLaren: Well, I would say…
Brad Johnson: And maybe let’s apply it to finance, like brought on a new client.
Stu McLaren: Yep.
Brad Johnson: They’re a financial services client. In that first 30 days, here are some things I would be thinking about.
Stu McLaren: Well, here’s what I know to be true. Anytime somebody is learning something new, it can feel overwhelming. And so, as a financial advisor, it’s second nature to you to just zoom up, develop a financial plan for somebody, and know that, okay, bump, bump, bump, that’s going to lead to this, that’ll lead to that. And then 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now, boom, there’s the result that you get. Now, that’s simple to you. That can feel overwhelming to them. So, one of the things that I talk about in my book, Predictable Profits, is creating what I call a success path. Now, this could be a plan, it could be a playbook, whatever it might be. But essentially, we’re starting with the end outcome that somebody is wanting.
And for a financial planner, that might be like the lifestyle that somebody wants to live when they retire. Okay. So, what does that look like? What are you doing on a daily basis, regular basis? How often are you traveling? What kinds of activities are you doing? Like we’re digging. We’re just asking questions, not necessarily getting into specific numbers. We’re just asking, what do they want their life to look like at that point? From there, we can back up out of that and say, “Okay, what is that going to cost on a regular basis, and what needs to happen for them to be able to live that life?” Now, we’ve got a number, and now we can back up out of that. What needs to happen in these years in order to be able to get to that number?
Okay. None of this is rocket science, I know, but here’s the lesson. In order to get to that final outcome, we need to break that journey down into different stages. So, this is what a success path is. It is here a starting point, an end point, and that journey is broken into different stages. And within each stage, we then need to focus on different things that need to happen in order for us to progress. The mistake that a lot of people make is they try to teach all the things to somebody all at once, and that’s when it gets overwhelming, and that’s when you know, have you ever seen that meme with Homer Simpson just backing up into the bush?
Brad Johnson: Oh, many times. That’s one of my favorites.
Stu McLaren: Yeah, that’s exactly what your clients end up doing. And so, then what ends up happening is everything you’re saying just becomes, “Wha, wha, wha, wha.” They don’t hear anything. But if you just simplify it, you can outline the plan, but just say, “You know what? Like in this first stage, just focus on these few things. You don’t have to worry about all that other stuff. Right now, in this season, just focus on these few things.” That’s like a breath of fresh air because that takes this weight of, “Oh my gosh, we have to build all of this for retirement,” to like, “No, you just need to focus on these few things right now. And if you do this, you will naturally progress to the next stage, to the next stage, and to the next stage.”
So, I think as a financial advisor, your job is to simplify this process, is to provide clarity, simplify the process, and make it feel light and manageable by just giving them a few things to focus on right now that will lead to the progress that they’re after. Is that making sense?
Brad Johnson: Yeah, for sure. You hit a few things that we preach on this show, which is not focusing on the math, the numbers, the spreadsheets, getting out into the details, which is honestly how a lot of financial advisors were trained. They were trained to sell another company’s products. So, of course, that takes them right down into the weeds. As opposed to starting with the end in mind, what is all this for? What does it actually mean to Stu and Amy in their retirement, once they’re empty nesters? Where do they want to go? Where do they want to live? What do they want to do on the daily? So, you hit a lot of key points that, unfortunately, our industry is really bad at creating bad habits around.
Back to the overwhelm, I love that. You took me to one of the most successful firms that I’ve ever worked with. They’re bringing on close to half a billion dollars organically a year. And they use a phrase over and over, “Rome wasn’t built in a day. We’re just going to start with this.” And what it does, to your point, instead of everything that’s overwhelming them, it just simplifies it to here’s the next step we need to take. That’s all that matters. So, are there other frameworks just around the clarity, simplification that you’ve seen over the years? Or should we move on to the next thing? But I think that’s really, really key and gets messed up a lot in finance.
Stu McLaren: Yeah. I think that whole success path is really important in the clarity and then helping your members get clear on what is the next right step for them. That in and of itself will eliminate a tremendous amount of overwhelm and will get them moving in the right direction. And that momentum is what matters because then, once they are experiencing momentum, we can reflect back to them where they were and where they are now. And that feels good. Like humans love progress. And so, when you have a success path like this, you have a measuring stick of progress. So often, people focus on where they are and where they want to be and the gap in between. And we don’t spend enough time focusing on the game.
And this is straight from the Gap and the Game book by Dan Sullivan and Dr. Ben Hardy. And so, the same is true in the financial advisory space. If all you’re doing is focusing on the gap, that doesn’t feel anywhere near as good as, “Here’s where you were and look how far you’ve come. That’s freaking amazing. Hoorah for you,” right? Like that feels better, and that feeling is what keeps people connected and moving forward. So, I think money is a really fascinating thing because on one side, it is definitely very intellectual, very numbers, very math. The other side, it is tremendously emotional. And we cannot forget that emotional aspect of progress.
And when people are experiencing that progress, you want to remind them of that, and that feeling gets associated with you and your company because your company has helped facilitate that growth. So, don’t lose sight of that because that, in and of itself, is a really sticky element to keeping clients long term.
Brad Johnson: All right, this one just came to mind. I love where you’re headed with this. Real life coaching scenario, direct from a call I had with an advisor out of Texas yesterday. So, he’s got this prospect, done really well for himself, engineer, very spreadsheet, analytically minded. And one of the behaviors he’s actually trying to correct and unpack is this gentleman had multi multimillion dollars. And let’s just call it 25 million, and his goal was to get it to 30 investible assets. Well, got a little aggressive and unfortunately, it went the other direction. Now he is at 15.
And so, back to the gap in the gain, you see this all the time. It’s like you’re climbing Mount Everest and there’s the summit. Okay, I am at 25 mil, the summit’s at 30 mil, but it’s like, wait, why is the summit at 30 mil? Because once you get there, then it’s going to become 40 mil, then it’s become 50 mil. There’s just like the next peak. But there’s no actual meaning to that number other than it’s the next big round number. So, if you were coaching somebody that was kind of had some flawed logic where they’re kind of chasing the wrong path, how would you start to break that down if you’re an advisor? Because we had a really interesting coaching conversation on this. I’m like, yes, flawed logic. You’re going to have to reeducate him on, he’s chasing the wrong thing.
Stu McLaren: I would ask, so what I mean by that is like he says I want to get to 30 million in investible assets. So, what does that make possible? Well, I’d be able to do X, Y, and Z. Okay, awesome. So, is that the goal? Like, you want to be able to do X, Y, and Z? Well, and then we start digging a little bit deeper around that. What we’ve got to find out is like, what’s the purpose behind it?
I was sharing with you, Brad, like before we got started, that my wife and I had an epiphany and a realization. We just came back from Japan. And for anybody that’s ever been to Japan, you’d be able to connect and relate to this. But there’s like a lightness in the country. And what I mean by that is like it’s a lightness where everything’s not bigger, better, more. In fact, everything’s very intentional. People are very much at peace. And there was a lightness in the country that Amy and I came out of that just really appreciating.
And I think at the end of the day what it caused for us was to come back and we just started asking a different set of questions like, why are we doing all of this? What ultimately do we want? For Amy and I, we’re real clear now on what we want in our retirement, and it’s not to have a bigger house and more property. Not to say there’s anything wrong with that, that’s just not our cup of tea. What we want is we want a beautiful little home that doesn’t take much to run, but it’s out near the mountains so we can be outside and hike and do all that kind of stuff.
And so, then it’s like, okay, so what do we need for that to happen? And what we realized it was like far less. And I think that this is the realization that a client, like the one for– that you were having during the coaching call with his client in Texas, you just have to ask those questions like, so why is 30 million the number? What is it about 30 million that will make possible that 25 can’t? And what is it about 25 that makes possible that 20 can’t? And at the end of the day, I think once people start unpacking that, they start to realize what they really want in life, it actually costs much less. And therefore, what does that then make possible? If it costs less, then we don’t need as much. If we don’t need as much, what does that mean today? And so, I think more than anything, it’s just digging deeper into their mindset around why that number and what is that going to make possible. And maybe they do have justification for it. Maybe they want to donate X amount or they want to divide X amount amongst children, whatever it may be, I don’t know. But until you ask those questions, you don’t know where the logic is coming from and it very could be a flawed logic where they’re just pulling that number out and there’s no justification behind it.
The other side of that is, as a financial advisor, when your client shares the logic behind that number, okay, now we can anchor to that. Because when you get to 30 million and then they want to move the goalpost to 40 million, it’s like, well, what is the 40 million going to make possible that the 30 didn’t? And so, now we can reflect back to them the logic that they shared with us.
Brad Johnson: Well, you hit something really key there that I see sometimes we all struggle with it. I know I struggle with it. Asking questions versus making statements. Because especially as a coach, especially as an advisor, you have the curse of knowledge where you’ve seen this problem multiple times before you’re like, okay, let’s just fix this thing real quick and I’ll get to my next appointment. Well, that’s the first time most likely, that individual’s actually maybe even gone exploring, oh, is this even a problem? I didn’t realize that.
But now what you’re doing, you’re seeking to understand, you’re showing empathy. You’re not passing quick judgements before you give advice. That’s the key. Well, why is 30? And then listening, being curious, back to your point you made earlier today. So, I love that approach.
Stu McLaren: I think too, Brad, like, it’s a really good point that we just don’t spend enough time just being curious. And it’s not judgment. Like this is the key thing, asking questions is different from judging. The tone in which you ask the question is really important. Like if he says 30, you don’t want to put him down for saying– he or she, by the way. You don’t want to put he or she down for saying $30 million. There may be good reason for that, but you want to lead with a sense of curiosity. So, you want to lead with a soft, curious tone. So, you want to say, that is interesting. Tell me a little bit more about why 30 is the number for you. What is that going to make possible?
And so, you’re leading with curiosity and you’re coming from a place of curiosity, not a place of judgment. I think that’s really important because the tone matters. If I were to ask that question, well, why 30? Totally different. It’s the same question, but the tone is different. And how that is received is different. When it comes from a place of warmth and curiosity, people are going to open up more and you’re going to discover more. And then, as a financial advisor, the more you learn about your clients, the better you can serve them. And so, I think it’s really important being mindful of not just asking questions, but how you ask the questions.
Brad Johnson: All right, I want to shift. We could spend the whole conversation on that, but there’s so much ground to cover here. So, we had a chance to go to Africa together. And this was something I’d had on my list was, from the first time we met, I knew you and Amy had– I don’t even think it was called Village Impact at the time. What was it back in the day?
Stu McLaren: World Teacher Aid.
Brad Johnson: Yes, that’s what it was called the first time. So, that’s evolved to Village Impact. You all build schools over in Kenya and it’s just the coolest. I could spend the next 30 minutes just talking about how impactful that trip was for our family of five, going to a real village with a real school that you all helped build, connecting with the real community and the amazing people there, and then going on a safari on the other side of the trip.
But I want to go to something I saw you do very intentionally. You built this community and taught others how to build communities, and then you sold this business. And this was right about the time we met back in 2014, 2015 through our friend Michael, and you went to Mastermind Talks, mutual friend Jayson Gaignard, and you gave a speech, I believe, titled More Money, More Impact. And I just remember, and I don’t know if you would describe it this way, but I would say you had a little bit of an identity crisis because this is what you were known for. This is what everybody knew Stu for. You’d been very successful. You sold it, you had money. Now, it’s like, now what? And I just love the intentionality of how you thought about your own thinking and like, here’s what’s next. And making money isn’t a bad thing.
Stu McLaren: No.
Brad Johnson: So, anyway, a lot there, I don’t know where you want to go with that, but it was a really cool, like me watching you go on that journey, I took a few learnings, but I’d love to hear yours.
Stu McLaren: Well, I mean, I don’t know if anybody’s ever experienced this, but we had a great business, like the business that I ultimately sold, it was a great business. I had great products, great team, great business partner, on paper, everything was there. It all lined up. But at the end of the day, what I realized was that inside of me, something was off. And sometimes the hardest decisions aren’t between good or bad. They’re between good and what could be better. And what I realized was that I wasn’t totally sure of what the next thing was going to be, but I knew there was an opportunity for it to be better.
And so, selling that business, it was a really hard moment for me because instinctually, I knew it was time to sell, but logically, I had no idea what was next. And that uncertainty nearly prevented me from moving forward. Fortunately, I have an amazing wife who is tremendously supportive and encouraging, and she basically said, we’ll figure it out, like I believe in you. Like, it doesn’t matter what it is, we will figure it out.
And so, I moved forward, I sold the business, and then I went through this identity crisis that you talked about, like I didn’t know, was that business a one-hit wonder? Would people still want to do business with me? Was I putting my family in financial jeopardy? I didn’t know, like it was all these questions kept me up at night. And I think what moved me forward was that I just kept taking the next right step. Like, I wasn’t super focused on having a master plan, I was just focused on taking the next right step.
The next right step was I got a message from a friend of mine that said, “Do you know Michael Hyatt?” I said, “Yeah, I know who Michael is.” Our mutual friend Andy said, “Well, he’s looking to launch a membership site and I think you could really help him.” So, I met with Michael. That was the case. He wanted to launch a membership. I knew I could help him. Ultimately, we ended up partnering together and that membership blew up into a multimillion-dollar-year membership.
And then he wanted to involve me in more areas of the company, so I did. And that was fun. And I’d had no expectations that that was going to be a long-term thing, but it was the next right step. And then ultimately, through that success of Michael, word started to spread and more people started to ask for coaching and consulting. And I started doing that. And then I realized like, there’s something here.
And I had an incredible mentor who really gave me the push to go out on my own and teach this stuff. His name was Reid Tracy. He’s the CEO of big publishing company called Hay House Publishers. And he really encouraged me to go out and teach what I had learned. And so I did. And that’s when Michael and I, we wrapped up our partnership all, like, in a beautiful way. He’s still one of my dearest friends. We wrapped that up, and then I focus full time on what I’m doing now.
And I would just say like, through all of that, one of the things that I’ve realized is that in building business, it is a personal development journey on steroids. And there are so many highs and lows and there are moments when you question yourself and the self-doubt creeps in and you’re fearful and uncertain. But at the same time, there’s moments of tremendous courage and there’s moments of pride when you accomplish and you watch your clients get incredible results that you’re like, yes. That’s exactly why I do what I do.
And then the other thing for me is just like I realized that business is nothing more than a vehicle to do more good in this world. And again, I credit my amazing wife, Amy, because she’s always the one that traveled to developing countries, remote areas of developing countries. She’s always the one that has seen the need and has worked to improve those conditions for people. But where she really inspired me was realizing that business can be this tremendous opportunity to have and a business is a tremendous opportunity to do a lot of good.
And I had an epiphany moment, the very first time that we were looking to build our very first school in Kenya, and I’m talking to the chairman of this community and I’m just asking questions, trying to figure out like how much does it cost to build a school? And then one of the questions I asked him was, how much does it cost to fund the full-time salary of a teacher? And I’ll never forget this moment because he stopped and he thought for a moment, and he said it’s about $100 a month. This was back then.
And the software, my first software company, we would sell a single site license for 100 bucks. And I just made this connection, I’m just like, oh, my gosh. Like, if I sell one more license this month and I just allocate that money to fund the full-time salary of the teacher, imagine the impact I could have. And then the real light bulb went off, which was, well, wait a minute, what if I sell a whole lot more? And I dedicate a whole lot more to the people and causes I’m passionate about, imagine the impact I could have then.
And that was a turning point for me because what I realized was the more money I make, the more impact I can have. And if I’m just being point blank, straight up, I used to struggle with making money. I used to feel guilty about it. I’ve got two of the most amazing, hardworking blue-collar parents you could ever ask for. And they work hard their entire life. And in my mid-20s, I was making more than both of them combined and I was still living in my parents’ basement. So, like, how juxtaposed is that.
But I used to feel really guilty about making money because of that. And my subconscious would kick in and I could never get past a certain income level because my subconscious would be like, whoa, Stu, like, that’s way too much. You don’t deserve it. Your parents work way harder than you. You don’t deserve that. But that moment in Africa, it was like a switch that unleashed my potential because what I realized was that making money is a really good thing, and making money is not a selfish thing. In fact, making money is a very honorable thing because the more money you make, the more you can give. And the more you give, the more good you can do in this world. And that was a turning point for me.
I went immediately, the very next year after that, we made millions. And I’ve since gone on to make tens of millions a year. And we donate millions of dollars like, and it is the most incredible feeling to know that we as entrepreneurs have the ability to make money, and with that, we could now create impact. And I truly believe, Brad, that like it’s us as entrepreneurs, we are the ones that are going to change this world. It is not any government. We can’t be waiting for others to change the world. We can take control of that. We can change people’s world.
And there’s all kinds of ways to do this. You could do it through a charity like my wife and I have done. P.S., you don’t need to start your own charity to have that impact. There are thousands of nonprofits who will gladly, happily receive any donations that you are wanting to make because they are really good at the work that they do. but 99% of nonprofits are not good at making money. That’s your skill. So, make the money, give to the people that are in the trenches doing the good work, and just align yourself with them. That’s one way to do it.
But there’s other ways to be able to give money too, like within your own community, and there’s so many good examples of this. Okay, I’ll share one. So, Amy and I do one thing every year and it’s called The Super Surprise. And what we do is we pick like a family member or a loved one or a dear friend who we want to create an amazing experience for. So, we’ve done these over the years. We’ve done this for my parents, we’ve done it for Amy’s parents, we’ve done it for family friends. I’ll share one example that we did a couple years back that was truly a magical experience.
So, I mentioned that our son, Sam, we adopted from South Africa and he joined our family when he was one. Well, from the time that he was born to the time that he joined our family, he lived in a foster home in South Africa. Now we call it a five-star foster home because he was loved on by two grandmothers, who at any one point in time, had anywhere between 10 to 15 babies. And these women were amazing. They treated them like their own kids. They would take them out. They’d celebrate them. They had community members come in. Like, these kids, they lived an amazing life in this foster home.
Well, anyway, one of the women, her name is Lyn, unfortunately, since passed because she was getting up there in age. The other, her name’s Sonya, she was about to celebrate her 75th birthday, and one of the things that we decided to do was to bring her over to Canada because so many of the adoptions that she helped facilitate, the kids ended up moving to different parts of Canada. So, we flew her over here for her 75th birthday and we had a celebration in our yard and we had probably about, I would say, close to 100 different people of all these different families, all came to celebrate Sonya. And then we sent her on a tour across Canada to visit other areas where adopted families of the kids that she had helped raise were living.
And so, she did this across Canada tour, visiting all these kids that she raised when they were babies, and she got to see them. Now, they’re 5 years old, 6 years old, 10 years old, 12 years old. Some are teenagers, and it was this beautiful like full circle moment for her. That wouldn’t have been possible. It wouldn’t have been possible. She would not have been able to do that. She did not have the financial means to be able to do that, but that’s the magic of what we do. As entrepreneurs, we get to make money and we can use it to make impact in a variety of different ways.
And so, we can give on the charitable side to causes that we’re passionate about. We can give in our local community, our kids’ sports teams and things like that. And we could also give to individuals to create amazing experiences and lifelong memories for them. And so, I am passionate about business. I love making money. Universe, I love making money because when we make money, we can do a whole lot more good. So, that moment, in Africa when I had that light bulb of, oh, my gosh, if I just make a little bit more and give a little bit here, it can make an impact. Oh, my gosh, if I just give a whole lot more, I can make a whole lot more impact. That was life changing for me.
And so, at that point, when you were talking about that moment in time, I was in a crossroads because I had just sold the company, was unsure of what to do, just kept taking the next right step. And then eventually, I found my footing and found my next thing. And this next thing has been everything that I’ve ever wanted and so much more. And we’ve made more money than I could ever have imagined, and we’ve given away more money than I could ever imagined. And we’ve had a whole lot of impact, both through our products and services, but also through the causes that we’ve supported and it’s something that I’m tremendously proud of.
Brad Johnson: Stu, you’re the best man. What I love about you, and it’s every time, like we don’t– I think we average maybe one conversation a year, maybe a few texts throughout the year. I just love your vibe. It’s infectious. And you actually brought something to mind that I need to start doing more of. I don’t know what you called it, but we call it secret shopping. And you remember the grocery store idea?
Stu McLaren: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: Well, I’ll share it here because it’s been impactful to our family and I’ve done it with some of our team. But typically, we do it around Thanksgiving, around the holidays here, where people are going out, cooking meals for their family. And I probably butchered the execution on this. You probably have some steps you can add, but basically, we just go get an envelope full of cash. We’d go talk to the local grocery store manager and say, “Hey, wear like a colored hat that’s easy to pick out, but basically, roam around the grocery store and secretly pay for people’s groceries anonymously.” And we did this when the kids were little. They’re like sitting there like, oh, let’s buy their groceries. They’re like, shh, don’t tell. And I’ll never forget. So, I got that idea from you.
And there was this lady, and I remember we were walking around and she was literally pulling out her coupon book. You could tell she was down to the penny. And she was probably 80, 85 by herself. And so, we just kind of roam around, tried to make it not obvious that we were like stocking around the grocery store. And when she goes to check out, we get right behind her in line, which is the signal to the clerks that we’re going to buy her groceries.
And she immediately struck up this conversation with the clerk. She was a regular there. Hey, honey, how are you doing? Blah, blah, blah. And the checkout person said, Hey, Mrs. Such-and-Such, is there anything I can do for you? She’s like, well, you could buy my groceries. And I remember like the universe just signaling right there. I was like, wow, this lady has no idea what it’s about to go down.
And so, anyway, they ring her all up and they’re like, Mrs. Such-and-Such, I just want to let you know your grocery has been taken care of today. And she gets mad. She’s like, you better not have paid for my groceries. She’s talking to the checkout lady. She’s like, I was just joking. You are not paying for my groceries. She’s like, I didn’t do it. You’ve been anonymously blessed or something. And she immediately turns to me and she’s like, “Did you buy my groceries?” And she was kind of like prideful. Like, hey, I don’t need any handouts. And I was like, just on the spot, I was like, no, but I hope they pay for mine too. And I just kind of played it off, but it was just like such a cool family moment. And I got that from you where you shared that somewhere along the way in one of our conversations. And so, I took that back to Kansas, and we’ve done that.
And we haven’t done it in a year or two, so we need to get back to it. But it’s such a magical place to be in life where you can give away and help others and not have to hoard everything for yourself. And it’s down to the next nickel and dime in the bank account. But you’ve always had that energy and you’ve inspired others to have that energy, including our family. And I just love that about you, about Amy, who will act like the quiet person in the room, but she is the biggest badass in the room.
Stu McLaren: 100%.
Brad Johnson: That girl is adventurous. She’s telling me like riding tuk tuks through mountains in some random country and so, it’s really cool. I love the way you guys live. I love the way you inspire others to live. I’m going a little off track, getting on a soapbox here, but I really love every time we get together. I pick something like that up from you guys.
Stu McLaren: Well, I appreciate that, buddy. Yeah, the grocery store, that came from was I love collecting acts of kindness. And so, I was just on YouTube and I saw a YouTuber do that. And I said to Amy like, “We got to do this.” And what I loved about the whole grocery store thing is that oftentimes, when you give, you don’t get to see the magic of that moment of somebody receiving it. And that’s what I loved about the grocery store thing is because in the same way, like we had different reactions. Like we had one guy on, I’ll never forget, he gets told that his groceries are paid for and he’s like, “Are you serious?” And the clerk’s like, “Yeah.” And he is like looking around. He takes the groceries and boom, he was gone.
Brad Johnson: We had one of those too. He is like, I’m out of here before they catch me.
Stu McLaren: Yeah, exactly. And then, we had another one that, oh, my gosh, it was so moving. She just broke down. She just broke down right there. And because it was– a very similar situation, it was super tight. And you could tell she had so much pride. She wanted to create an amazing meal for her family, but she was very careful of what she could afford, what she couldn’t, and she just broke down. And it was just like, that was a great conversation to have with the kids afterwards of just how these little acts of kindness can have such a huge impact on people and that there’s always room for kindness. And so, I just love those moments. I love collecting those ideas.
And by the way, somebody that’s really tremendously inspired me in this regard, if you go on YouTube and you just search for the video, The Secret Billionaire. It’s about a 50-minute video and it’s a documentary on a gentleman who was the creator of the airport Duty Free.
Brad Johnson: Yes, I was thinking too.
Stu McLaren: And his name is Chuck Feeney. And he made so much money that he felt ridiculously guilty about it. So, he was literally anonymously donating hundreds of millions of dollars. And then when he turned 75, he had this moment when he didn’t want to do it anonymously anymore because he realized that he could inspire a lot of other people if he just started sharing what he was doing. And so, he started sharing it.
And his goal was to give away all of his money before he passed away. And so, Brad, this is crazy, but at one point, he was giving away over a million dollars a day to different causes and things that he’s passionate about and he succeeded. There was an article that was written about him, I think it was like three or four years ago, where he had given away all of his money except for $2 million that he kept for him and his wife. And this guy was a multi, multibillionaire. And it was just so inspiring for me just to think of the impact that this one man has had with his one business. And I was really inspired by that. It just, again, showed me that there’s no limits to how much we can make and, therefore, no limits on how much we can give. And what a privilege, what an honor to live in the time that we do to be able to do both of those things.
Brad Johnson: Really cool. You reminded me of one of my favorite quotes. I was familiar with that story. But I will go watch that on YouTube now because I haven’t like dove deep in exactly how he did it. But I was reading, it was either a biography or autobiography by the founder of Patagonia. Very similar. And there was a quote in there that stuck with me. Your last shirt doesn’t have a pocket on it, a.k.a., you can’t take it with you, so pretty cool to be able to have success, help people make money.
But at the end of the day, if you can make an impact and give and see the results of that while you’re alive, like, okay, so you’d die with 5 billion in the bank, you’re not going to be able to see what happens with that tool called money after you’re gone. You might as well use it while you’re here.
Stu McLaren: Yeah, 100%. I mean, money’s just a fuel. That’s all it is. Money is just fuel. And the only question that matters is what you’re using it to drive. And so, I would just encourage people to, yes, stay hungry. Don’t feel guilty about making money. Making money is a very honorable thing. What you do with that money, and I hopefully am inspiring people to just use that money to do more good. And there’s all kinds of places where you could do good. It could be your local family and friends. Like, dude, like this Super Surprise, that is one of those treats that Amy and I absolutely love because then you get to create an experience for people that could never create it for themselves. And it creates incredible memories.
And so, selfishly, you get to create these amazing memories and revisit those memories. And that is so rewarding. But you can give to your local community and you can give to causes that you’re passionate about. There’s all kinds of ways that you can use that money. And so, yeah, at the end of the day, I love making money. I love business. I’m so grateful that I’ve ended up in this entrepreneurial path because it’s cracked me wide open. And Amy is a big reason for that. I don’t know that I would’ve had the moments that I’ve had if it weren’t for her. And so, I’m so grateful to her for that. But yeah, it’s been a fun journey.
Brad Johnson: Well, and you’re raising great kids. You’re modeling it to them. And one of the things, one of the reasons it was really important to me to go on this trip to Africa with our full family was I kept asking super successful people, how do you not raise spoiled and entitled kids? Because I was similar to you, I grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere in Kansas. We didn’t have anything. And my kids are fortunately growing up, or maybe unfortunately in some ways growing up in a very different environment where they have a lot of things that they haven’t had to think about.
And back to giving back and realizing how fortunate you are, one of the memories that sticks with me right as we pulled up to the village in Africa, the school that the Village Impact helped build, it was one of the bumpy– I’ve been on some bumpy dirt roads in Kansas. That was a bumpy dirt road. I don’t even know if it qualifies as a road actually. But we roll up, and as we were maybe like a mile away from this village, I look over to the right and there was a lady with a baby strapped to her chest, kind of like, not like we’re used to it here, like just cloth kind of folded over or whatever. And she was doing her laundry in ditchwater.
And in that moment, I immediately thought, wow, a bad day where I come from is a good day here. Like from the stuff, not the family, not the connections, but like doing your laundry in ditchwater, I can’t even imagine. And immediately, there was a sense of gratitude that I had, that I didn’t have before. And I know that impacted our kids tremendously, just realizing how fortunate they are, how blessed they are.
And so, I told you this a few times in Africa, but thank you, to you and Amy, for helping create that experience. You guys do an incredible job. You’ve taken many trips and one of the most impactful trips I’ve ever taken in my life, including, and it was impactful because I took my whole crew with me, so appreciate. The fact of how you all make that possible…
Stu McLaren: It was a ton of fun and it was fun to see how your kids connected with the kids in Africa. Initially, a little bit nervous, a little bit cautious, unsure. By the end, full on, like, playing football and hanging out with the kids. And it’s super fun to watch that transformation happen. The only thing that I’m trying to still figure out is how to transfer good personal hygiene to our kids over here. With our son Sam, we were joking the other day. We’re like, dude, we were prepping our house to sell and we’re in his room and Amy’s finding gems that have been there for a real long time that probably shouldn’t have been.
Brad Johnson: Good luck with that. I’ve got a 16-year-old that’s still dealing with that as well. So, I don’t know the answer to that one.
Stu McLaren: But I do think when we can embed kindness in our kids’ hearts at an early age, I think it is the best way that we can contribute as parents to making this world a better place. Empathy and kindness, to me, they’re skills just as much as learning how to do math and spelling and driving and all the things. Kindness and empathy are skills that we can teach. And the earlier we teach them, our kids, the better off they will be.
Brad Johnson: Yeah, couldn’t agree more. And it’s very much needed in today’s world. So, well, my man, it’s Friday. We’re coming up on an hour. As always, I didn’t know where this conversation was going to go, but I knew it would be awesome. So, thanks so much Stu for hopping on here, and the front end was some business learnings and community learnings and then we got into a lot of life and stuff that really matters the most at the end of the day. So, appreciate you as always, my man.
Stu McLaren: Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me.
Brad Johnson: All right, till next time.
Stu McLaren: See you, buddy.
