Brad Johnson: Welcome back to another episode of Do Business. Do Life. Excited to have Shannon Rosic here with us today. Welcome to the show, Shannon.
Shannon Rosic: Thank you. It’s always a little strange being on the other side of the mic. I’m going to have to stop myself from flipping the script and asking you the questions today.
Brad Johnson: We were just talking before we went live here. And when you’re used to doing the interview and then you flip on the other side, it’s a different sort of challenge mentally because on this side, like I will tell you as a podcast host, I have so much more respect now for like the Oprahs of the world, the Larry Kings of the World because to do an interview, it’s just like you’ve got to constantly be listening but figuring out where it’s going. And so, you’ll crush it but much respect to hopping over to the other side of the mic.
Shannon Rosic: And you’ve been doing this for a while. Was it like 2015 or so? You were kind of coming in before it was a hot thing. So, I’ve only been doing this for about two and a half years and it’s still very much a learned skill.
Brad Johnson: You know, mentally I’m still young. I’m in my 20s, but somebody called me an OG of financial services podcasting the other day.
Shannon Rosic: It’s meant to be a compliment and you’re like…
Brad Johnson: Yeah, no. Actually, Kitces, love his show. He’s been on our show a time or two and actually my original show before this one was live before his was and he’s like been a self-proclaimed nerd that’s always ahead of the curve around everything technology so I guess I’ve got that claim to fame but, yeah, I’ve been doing it for a bit. Well, let’s talk, first off, as we record this January 24th, it’s a Friday. There’s a very important Chiefs game on both of our calendars two days from Sunday. Bills versus Chiefs. Somehow you became a Chiefs fan, even though you’re not. So, you want to share that story and then we’ll just put some prayers up and hope it works out on Sunday.
Shannon Rosic: Absolutely. We do need to put the good vibes out into the ether here because it’s going to be another just epic showdown at least I certainly hope so. We seem to be there bugaboo in the playoffs and hope to keep it that way for at least one more year. But the story about how I became a Chiefs fan, I’ll try to be relatively short, but I actually married into it. So, I’ve been a lifelong hockey fan. That was always my sport. Rangers hockey, they’ve been breaking my heart for 30 years, so I understand pain. So, I didn’t know if I could take on another team where it was just constant pain. And so, anyone that knows me knows that I’m also a big horse person. I always call myself the weird horse girl. I’ve been riding since I was little so my weekends are always taken up by shows, rodeos, doing something at the barn, whatever it may be.
And so, when my husband and I first got together, not only did I say, “If you want to be with me, you better learn to ride horses,” then the trade-off was, “All right. Well, that’s fine, but my Sundays are for me to watch football.” I didn’t really think anything of it at the time until we started getting into arguments that he should be coming to my shows. And anyone that is in that world knows that it can be like watching grass grow or watching paint dry to show up for somebody to watch them ride for 30 seconds and then wait another few hours until you go again. So, after years of this debate, I finally decided to give in. Like I said, I’ve always been a sports fan and athlete myself. So, I said, “What the heck?” I never adopted a team when I lived on the East Coast. I’m in Denver now, so that’s a whole other thing, being a Chiefs fan.
Brad Johnson: Oh, yeah, that’s a thing for sure.
Shannon Rosic: Yes, it is. And so, I never adopted Giants, Jets, Patriots. Shout out but thank goodness with the way things have been going.
Brad Johnson: You know what’s the best part about this current Chiefs run? And I don’t take any of it for granted. Lifelong Chiefs fan so I went through a lot of early playoff exits when we actually had pretty good teams. But I’ll tell you, it’s so weird how all of my Patriots fan friends, yes, I’m talking to you, Derek, Keith, Matt, if you’re listening, I heard nothing about how amazing Tom Brady and the Patriots were for a decade and then all of a sudden through Deflategate, through all of the tuck rule games, I didn’t hear one thing about the refs. And then all of a sudden, the Chiefs are the cheaters. They’re paying the refs. I’m getting memes texted to me every other day. But yet when the Patriots had their run, that wasn’t a thing. And it’s so interesting how that happens. Do you run into that with some friends?
Shannon Rosic: Well, honestly, I had to even take a break on Twitter and social media after the last couple of games because now I do appreciate all the folks like Nick Wright who come out and try to argue against all these naysayers and nonbelievers. But the stats are the stats. The facts are the facts at the end of the day. And so, if you want to say it’s rigged, that’s just haters not being well-educated on what’s actually going on. So, yes, I will come for you. It took every ounce of me not go fight everyone on Twitter.
Brad Johnson: I can tell this is going to be a great conversation already. There’s a lot of alignment on here. Well, let’s get to what we do day-to-day, which is the world of finance. And your story is a fun one. So, you’ve been in this industry about a decade. So, rewinding the clock started out at InvestmentNews. You said you got hired for one role, but before you knew it, you fell into kind of the digital, the technology side. And that kind of seems like the path that you ran down really hard. And then there was a stint as Gadget Girl so we definitely need to understand that.
But I just really, well, I want to get into, I mean, technology’s always been a thing. I got into this industry in ’07, but the evolution and the speed of the evolution over the last decade specifically, it’s just exponentially increasing with AI today and everything going on. So, let’s rewind the clock. Shannon just gets into finance, nerds out a bit, goes into digital and tech. What was it like back then? How were you thinking about this? And let’s just kind of follow the rabbit trail to where we are today.
Shannon Rosic: Yeah. So, I graduated with a degree in mass communications so you can kind of go any direction with that. My focus was actually really in journalism, broadcasting, and film. So, I always joke that my parents are now thrilled that my degree is in fact now degreeing. And I put it to good use because when I graduated, I didn’t really know what I was going to do. So, my first, first job out of college was about a year-and-a-half stint at an email deliverability company as an account coordinator. I will admit I am not a numbers person by any means. I am not somebody who loves to live in Excel and analyze data. I am the creative.
So, having to dig into email accounts and read code and DKIM and nerd out on things like that kind of realized that probably wasn’t for me and I’m forcing a square peg into a round hole here. And I actually started shadowing the marketing team there and started ghostwriting because that’s what I love to do is content development, whether it’s writing, whether it’s digital video, podcasting. That’s what I love. So, I started doing that and quickly realized I should probably be doing something different. And that’s when I applied for that role at InvestmentNews and I credit them for really kickstarting my career. We had a killer team. I still call it kind of the golden era or glory days of InvestmentNews. It was Mike Clowes and Mark Bruno, Suzanne Siracuse, Matt Ackermann.
Brad Johnson: That was the publication I remember ten years ago. I mean, you guys still had print back then, right?
Shannon Rosic: Oh, yeah. The magazine was a hit.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. It was like a magazine/newspaper. I mean, it was…
Shannon Rosic: Oh, yeah. We pride ourselves walking to offices and it would be out on the coffee table.
Brad Johnson: Yeah, for sure.
Shannon Rosic: But talk about something that’s changed. We can talk about print, but I started out a marketing role there, actually, which I loved, and I got to help on the events and our email campaigns and just really start dipping my toes into this space that I never thought I would go into finance, let alone wealth management. Quickly realized that I had this affinity towards digital media and we were just really starting to grow that side of the business. And so, I said, “Let me strap on like a wart to Matt Ackermann and Mark Bruno and really just shadow again and be more behind the scenes.”
And so, I would do my marketing job during the day and then go out on the road with them on video shoots and just work and kind of do the grunt work behind the scenes just to get a taste for it. And then eventually I showed that I could balance both. And then they finally gave me the opportunity to be on camera and it kind of took off from there. And that’s where I fell in love. Like I said, with all things digital media, storytelling, that’s what I love to do. That’s what I love to help clients do is effectively tell their mission and their stories and get them out there in creative ways. And that’s how Gadget Girl was born.
And a lot of folks still know me in the industry as that. Like, they don’t know my first name. They’ll shout at a conference, “There’s Gadget Girl.” Yeah, another fun fact, I love the color purple and, heck, I’m wearing it today but Gadget Girl was this idea that Matt Ackermann I had. He’s one of my greatest mentors. We’re still very close, good friends. And we brought this idea to Suzanne and Mark originally as a superhero.
Brad Johnson: Oh, wow. Okay.
Shannon Rosic: Super idea. And so, we were so excited. We did a video shoot and a photo shoot to start coming up with logos and things like that. And it was me doing the Superman pole with the double GG. And I’ll never forget that Mark Bruno is like, “Guys, great idea. Can’t have Shannon just pulling shirts and blazers open.”
Brad Johnson: Makes sense. That’s probably a good…
Shannon Rosic: He saved us from ourselves like actually to his credit. So, we pivoted and I said, “All right, let’s do something then totally different. Carmen San Diego meets Inspector Gadget.” And that’s how Gadget Girl was born. So, you would often see me running around conferences in a purple trench coat and a purple fedora. So, I had the brand down. And what this was, these were fun, campy, but educational under-the-hood looks at new and emerging wealth tech firms because that’s really that was really 2013 to about 2017 of my time at InvestmentNews. That’s really when wealth tech in particular just started popping off and everyone was trying to understand it in layman’s terms and what it can do for advisors.
So, I said, “Well, let’s break it down and make it easy.” I would do things like rent a taco truck to describe data aggregation. I did some rock wall climbing to talk about annuities and how that ladders up to retirement. So, using these kind of fun analogies with this character to explain what was going on in the space. And so, that went viral. That took off. I feel like I need to resurrect her. It’d be like Gadget Grandma at this point, but I feel like there’s still maybe something there.
Brad Johnson: There’s still a few gadgets out there, I’m sure. So, going back to that era, so 2013 through ’17, did you have…? And when you say gadget, I feel like it was also like Fintech, like you are also looking at software as well, right?
Shannon Rosic: Yes. Correct.
Brad Johnson: So, were there any that you saw and be like, “This is an absolute game changer”? Like the moment you saw it, you’re like, “This is going to be big,” and then it did become big? Do you have any of those moments that you remember?
Shannon Rosic: So, it’s funny. So, I remember I did one with Laserfiche to talk about like the power of forms magic. And now everyone has it’s all digital now when it comes to form documentation and digital vaults and things like that. So, that was one where I thought I was like, “All right, like, how is this going to be interesting? Why does this ultimately matter?” And then turns out that is now something that everyone works with and needs as part of their tech stack. It’s funny because there are definitely some ones that have been acquired since I worked with Orchestrate. I flew a drone with a burrito to talk about that company. And then I remember doing one with Riskalyze back, now Nitrogen.
So, that one shout out to Aaron Klein and Kyle Van Pelt at the time because they were my first victims when I was just kicking this off and obviously was all about the risk score at that time. And the risk tolerance and questionnaires like that whole mindset has kind of shifted now where obviously it’s about you can get to know your clients much more than just their risk number. Riskalyze saw that too, and now they’ve become Nitrogen so even bigger than they started with. So, that was…
Brad Johnson: That was one I had Aaron on my old podcast and at that point, Riskalyze had already started to take off. But I think the brilliance of that product was like, “Hey, Shannon, do you consider yourself moderately conservative? You know, like, how do you define that?” And they kind of just created a rating and then backed into it so you could start to actually meet people where they are.
Shannon Rosic: And they made it fun. I mean, you remember at the conferences you’d walk around like with your risk number pinned to you. So, it was a great conversation starter.
Brad Johnson: Oh, really? Yeah. I never went. That’s cool.
Shannon Rosic: Things like that. Oh, yeah. But yet complete pivot. You know, they were always one I had on my radar. I get asked the question a lot, “Who’s the next Envestnet or who’s the next Orion?” And so, that’s something that I’m always kind of constantly following. We’ve seen these pivots, we’ve seen consolidation. So, I’m always curious, like, who’s going to be the next big player. You’ve seen Advyzon kind of rise up through the ranks. All those ex-Morningstar guys have really taken it to the next level. So, yeah, that’s something that’s always kind of top of mind that I’m certainly watching is who’s going to be next.
Brad Johnson: I think the saying that always stuck with me I think it’s I forget who actually said it. It’s an investment firm. I think it’s Andreessen Horowitz actually. They said software is eating the world. That was their thesis. And this was like 20 years ago, right? But software is eating the world in finance and it’s now, I mean, everywhere you turn, AI this, AI that, here’s how this is going to impact that. So, what a fun time to be doing what you do. And today I want to make sure I don’t mess this up. You are now the Director of Wealth Stack Content and Solutions, which is an Informa company, and there’s a lot going on in that world. So, maybe catch us up to here’s what you do now, here’s where the focus is, and let’s just spend the rest of the time geeking out on where we think things are going.
Shannon Rosic: I love it. Okay. So, it was funny because after my stint at InvestmentNews, I moved over to Asset TV and it became their main host for all their Fintech content. So, all I was doing was on video talking to folks about Fintech. And then my colleague and I actually left and psychotically thought it would be a good idea to launch a startup within a startup. We went over to a company called Medici Research. They’ve since been acquired by Prove, but we launched their media arm. I mean, I’m in my late 20s at this point. I’ve never really thought of myself as an entrepreneur but, boy, that was some of the most fun I’ve ever had, coming up with a strategy for that, launching the media arm.
That took me all over the world to explore Fintech, especially in the Asian markets. I was very fortunate at that time to do things like the Singapore Fintech Festival or go to India and go to their massive Fintech events. So, that opened me up beyond wealth stacks to payments, lending, KYC, everything Fintech. And it is a bit mind-blowing to be in that world and figure it all out. So, after that, I actually came back into the industry and helped run my marketing at RobustWealth. They were acquired by Principal. That got rolled up and that history kind of ends there. And then I ran marketing for Flyer Financial Technologies, which was a great experience.
I was the first in-house marketer and it certainly stretched me professionally because it is not the easiest job to essentially take technology that’s the plumbing or behind the scenes and make it look and sound sexy and be able to talk about it. So, that was an incredible learning experience for me just from that standpoint. But when I joined Informa about two years ago now, I realized that I love working with everyone and going back to that storytelling component. I love just creating content. So, being back, I always joke I’m back on the dark side in media, so.
Brad Johnson: I think it’s the light side. It’s the fun side, right?
Shannon Rosic: It is the fun side. And I’ve been very fortunate that a lot of my roles over the years have been tailored to my skill set. And so, now what I do here at Informa is I get to toe that fun line of working with our editorial team to stay on top of what’s happening in our space and then execute on that and with custom campaigns and projects for clients that come to us and want that storytelling help. So, you’ll often see me at conferences speaking about all things tech and/or marketing or branding. I have the WealthStack podcast where I’m talking to experts all over our space about their product, where they fit into the ecosystem, what they see coming down the pike.
So, that’s where I get to learn a lot, which is great, and then the things that I love, being on video, interviewing folks, and just being a sponge. So, like I said, it’s always strange for me to be on the other side of things and not asking the questions this time. So, I’m very fortunate because I had fun jobs and still continue to have a fun job. So, like I said, no intention of going into the space, finance, Fintech, and now the subset of wealth tech, so specific. I have yet to have my parents be able to describe back to me what I do. So, still working on that. They’re just happy I’m employed.
Brad Johnson: Well, sometimes you just have to give up on that one. I think I’ve given up on that one with my parents but, hey, it’s all good. We’re having a good time doing what we do, right?
Shannon Rosic: Exactly.
Brad Johnson: Well, let’s go into the cool thing is, in your chair, you’ve had a decade of experience and that’s really cool. You’ve had a diverse, you know, you’ve had a lot of stops along the way as far as being able to learn from different angles when it comes to finance and technology. So, I’m sure there are some theses that have evolved because I look at it when you’ve got this 30,000-foot view and you’re kind of getting bombarded with all of the stuff that’s around the corner, right on the cutting edge of technology, what are the themes you see if you were looking out three, five years? I don’t want to go too much further than that because technology evolves so quickly but next 3 to 5 years, what are some things financial advisors should be thinking about when it comes to technology?
Shannon Rosic: Absolutely. So, I’m going to state the obvious with AI. If you are at least not dabbling with it, you are already behind. So, I don’t know too many folks that say, “I just love taking notes during my meetings.” It’s like you’re going to miss something. That’s just human nature. So, at least if you aren’t dabbling with the easy, low-hanging fruit like an AI note taker, even taking it to the next step with AI prospecting, building in overlays just to help with your workflows, you’re probably already behind. So, that’s something that especially the next generation of advisors is going to be focused on, is that hybrid model of the human touch, married with AI. I always look at it as more of a copilot.
You look back in, what, 2007-2008 when we had the robo scare and those headlines dominating and everyone freaking out that robos were going to take advisors’ jobs. No. It just opened up another market segment for a different type of investor, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. If anything, it’s a good thing because it keeps us honest and innovative. So, I think AI is ultimately going to change everything. It’s a bit scary. I don’t know if you’ve seen the recent news. I literally just saw it today, actually. I think it’s called DeepSeek. And it’s basically already better than OpenAI and they had a minimal R&D budget. I think it was like 6 million, whereas you have firms like Meta and Alphabet and Google spending that for one engineer to do this.
And so, I think things are going to change much faster than people expected. We know wealth management industry is notoriously behind when it comes to technology and rightfully so, between regulation and getting things to talk to each other but it’s coming and it’s coming fast. So, it’s like get on board or get left behind for lack of better terms. The other thing that we’re seeing that other industries have already figured out is the data management side of things. We hear firms all the time like you’re only as good as your worst piece of data because garbage in, garbage out, right? If your systems aren’t talking to each other, you’re inputting incorrect information somewhere as simple as if you type in John Smith in your CRM and you have them as John A. Smith somewhere else, you can’t get that data to talk to each other.
So, watching RIAs hone in on roles like hiring CTO, as we know, a lot of RIAs don’t have and this is an area that I love to focus on. For the last two years, I’ve been hosting CTO think tanks at our various events and I bring in about 15 CTOs from billion-dollar-plus RIAs and essentially talk about what’s keeping them up at night. And that is AI and data management are consistent topics. So, whether they’re trying to build data lakes, upgrade legacy technology, people don’t realize that it’s how much of a heavy lift that is. And we’ve seen now business strategies and technology strategies really become one in the same at firms because that’s how critical it’s become because you can get overwhelmed quickly. We’ve all seen the maps out there.
You know, Kitces’ map is great. I reference it all the time to stay up to date on what’s happening but it can be overwhelming to prioritize and give your advisors what they need. So, that is certainly an area that I think we’re going to see an uptick is this demand for talent around tech and IT because it’s so critical. One that doesn’t get talked about enough, it usually shows up in headlines as a scare tactic, it’s getting a little more love, but cybersecurity. That is a huge one now. Obviously, with AI, we’re now seeing firms specifically focus on that around cyber because the attacks are getting more sophisticated with deepfakes and voice recognition.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. And you and I have a lot of recorded audio out there, which is a bit scary.
Shannon Rosic: It will. Exactly that. And so, what do you do when somebody calls in and says, “I swear I’m so and so”? Well, how do you actually know? And so, I’ve been asked even before what are security measures that you can take. And it’s sometimes even as simple right now as going back as do you have a phrase within your CRM that only you and your client know and things like that. And so, cyber is coming into focus much, much more than I think it has in the past. Obviously, always an issue when you’re dealing in finance, but now having solutions tailored to these RIAs to be able to help them with these issues is a big one. And what else has changed? I think this rise of the all-in-one platform. I’ve debated this build versus buy for years and there’s pros and cons to both at the end of the day.
Brad Johnson: What are just for advisors that are listening in that maybe they haven’t lived in the world that you live in. The build versus buy, which was the debate we were just having internally at Triad.
Shannon Rosic: I’d love to hear about it.
Brad Johnson: What are some firms that you would say went on one side or the other? Here were some firms that went build, here were some firms that went buy, and here’s how that’s kind of played out. Any that come top of mind?
Shannon Rosic: Yeah. So, I look at I would say so you look at the massive kind of like aggregators of the world, the cap trusts. So, you look at Dynasty. You look at, let’s see who else? Like Merit, all the folks that have been doing it well and do you want me to speak directly to RIAs or do you like the all-in-one?
Brad Johnson: Just riff. Yeah, just go for it. Pros, cons, what you’ve seen.
Shannon Rosic: Yeah. And so, the problem with the builds, you have these firms kind of like take Farther, for example. They have gone all-in on building a digital first-only RIA. So, they are doing it all in-house and they’ve been successful. I think they have over $5B now in AUM. So, they’re doing well. But the problem that I’m seeing when it comes to all-in-one is that can you actually maintain that expertise in like 12 areas outside of the core of invest management, financial planning, and CRM. Like, everything else that comes with it, you’re going to tell me that you can successfully maintain all of that well? So, yes, I mean…
Brad Johnson: It’s almost the maintenance cost catches up to you, right? Because when you build it, it’s like everything’s state of the art. It’s brand new. But now five years, ten years from now, technology evolves, coding evolves, and it’s like, “Wow, now I have to maintain this build.”
Shannon Rosic: Right. Exactly that. And advisors can benefit, obviously, from having everything integrated in one place. But again, at the end of the day, like show me someone that can maintain all of that and do it well and stay on top of all these trends. And, look, in every category of tech, we’ve seen a proliferation. You know, whether it’s estate planning, whether it’s prospecting, whether it’s notetaking, whatever it may be, I think we’re going to go through this era of an ebb and flow again where there’s all this excitement, all this new stuff happening, and then we’re going to start seeing the consolidation again. I think in particular with AI, look, love all my note-takers and everything, but we have enough. No offense.
Brad Johnson: There’s enough dot AIs out there. That’s for sure.
Shannon Rosic: Exactly. And so, we’re getting to a point like, how are you even differentiating? It’s a pretty, you know, it’s not difficult to explain what this does.
Brad Johnson: Yeah, it’s almost like the tough part. Like, if I was an advisor out there and like what do I integrate into my tech stack? It reminds me of the dot-com era of the late 90s. You know this is the future. You just don’t know which one. Is it Pets.com or is it Amazon.com? Because one goes to zero and one takes over the world. And so, that’s the hard part right now with where AI is at.
Shannon Rosic: Right. Exactly that.
Brad Johnson: Okay. So, let’s go, first off, I didn’t want to interrupt you but this little CTO roundtable thing you got going on, we have a CTO that he should be here in about a month or so. So, please reserve Triad a seat if you’re open to that.
Shannon Rosic: Oh my gosh. Absolutely. It’s been fascinating, actually, because I didn’t know if CTOs would be into something like this, that kind of peer-to-peer sharing. And I’ve been fortunate. I partnered with John O’Connell, the Oasis group, for these because he has a very deep technical background. And so, he’s able to kind of speak their language a little bit more when it gets into the deeper than the weeds. I was pleasantly surprised about how forthcoming they all were, not only about kind of their strategies and how they’re viewing things, how they listen to feedback within their firm, like I said, the things that keep them up at night. So, then a pleasant surprise to be able to build out this cohort.
And now we’ve had folks who are repeats because they love to come back and hear from the folks in the room. So, it’s become this really nice community. But again, it’s small. The CTO world out there is tiny. So, I’m hoping as things progress in our industry, you’ll start seeing those roles pop up a bit more because firms now realize, like I mentioned, how integral they are to the firm’s success.
Brad Johnson: Okay. So, let’s rewind a little bit more. You said something that piqued my interest around workflows and AI overlays and all of that, and you also said something that I think is very, very important. I’m going to repeat it. Garbage in, garbage out when it comes to data. And so, that’s tough because you just have to have this almost quality control aspect to how it gets input. But let’s go to workflows. As I know, Redtail is, what, 75%, 80% I think market penetration for CRMs in finance, at least based on the last stats I saw, I know as a CRM that has workflows built into it. So, let’s just say, hey, my data is pretty sound. I’m using Redtail. I’ve got my 10, 15, 20 workflows on the onboarding of a new client, the transfers, all of that. How will the right AI impact that sort of situation?
Shannon Rosic: Yeah. Absolutely. I always look at AI kind of as the ideal financial partner, right, because it’s unemotional, it’s impartial, and can make just a host of calculations and find patterns in seconds. And efficiency lies at the core of sustainable growth, right? So, by optimizing those operational processes and eliminating those efficiencies and embracing these technological advancements, firms can really enhance their agility and adaptability in what’s now this very rapidly changing landscape. So, it’s all about prioritization at the end of the day. When it comes to your workflows, where do you want to free up your time and focus on what you do best, which I’ve said this ad nauseum, but it’s serving your clients.
So, automate those mundane tasks that are routine, but you need to be working obviously with your tech team to ensure that your data is secure, sound, accurate. And you can’t do anything, you can’t even start messing with AI if you don’t have that in place. So, that’s number one. Like, yes, it’s very exciting. AI can come in and automate, do all this stuff, but you can’t even get there if you don’t have that data strategy in place. So, that really is number one. I think people forget that, that they can’t just really come in and plug and play with these things. There needs to be what business challenge is AI going to solve for you? That’s what you should be asking at the end of the day.
So, if you don’t have that right, you can’t even get to that workflow stage. If you do have it right, if you are a firm that you’ve made that a priority, it’s just managing how you want your day-to-day to look, right? What is your focus? What is your priority? Where are the areas that you want to get better at? That’s the beautiful thing now when it comes to say even for marketing, advisors now are asked to wear how many hats. They’re now life coaches, they’re financial planners, they’re friends. At the end of the day, you’re sharing very intimate information with them. You want to trust them. And a lot of them don’t want to spend this time having to now be on social media, come up with marketing campaigns. But AI now can do all that for you. And that’s the beautiful thing.
And you can build that into your workflow. Say you spend some time getting that right, your messaging right, boom, you put that into a prompt and ChatGPT you have your emails done, you put that into your CRM, create a workflow there. Again, it’s about prioritizing. I always say make AI do the stuff that you either don’t want to do or you’re not great at. You know, I say the same thing. I get asked a lot about coaching for media. If you don’t like video, try podcasting. You don’t like that, then write something. But just be out there expressing your opinions, expressing your voice, but do it in a medium that makes sense for you. So, I’ve always kind of looked at those as almost in parallel to one another, if that makes sense.
Brad Johnson: Yeah, I had a friend that has really been geeking out on AI lately, and his thesis is, he doesn’t believe humans will be replaced by AI anytime soon. He believes humans will be replaced by humans but no AI. And so, that’s kind of the thesis that I think we’re all kind of, you’re talking about there.
Shannon Rosic: And honestly, I would have to agree with it because the thing that’s a bit scary about AI is it’s kind of taken knowledge currency, if you will, almost to zero. Anyone can access any information they want now on any topic and really just kind of become an expert if they really wanted to just by prompting AI. I mean, I use ChatGPT almost every day, and it’s usually just to ideate if I need ideas for session topics, for an event, or putting one of my podcast transcripts, just to get a rough outline, and I put it into my voice.
But that’s the scary part about it, now is because all of this knowledge and information is accessible, and look, you can argue probably that the Internet plays a similar role, but things like ChatGPT and OpenAI and Gemini and all these platforms now are making it even easier than before. And so, what do we do now knowing that we have access to all this information? Like Spiderman, with great power comes great responsibility, and so, how are we going to manage that? How are we going to regulate that? And I think that’s one of the scarier sides of AI.
While it’s great when it’s acting as your copilot, what happens when it goes beyond that? So, I’m confident our industry will come in with some regulations around it and make it a bit more of an even playing field, but the technology is moving faster than that. So, that’s also what’s a bit scary as well.
Brad Johnson: Well, I heard this the other day. It’s wild. So, you just think about these breakthroughs in human evolution. So, the industrial revolution, what that do, that replaced typically the lowest wage workers. It was like the factory workers. Now, instead of them doing it now, a machine did it, where AI is actually coming from the other side. The people that are most likely to suffer first are the knowledge workers.
Like, I saw a study the other day. ChatGPT had passed all the med exams and oftentimes, gave better advice than an actual real doctor because it’s sourcing the entire knowledge base of human society, right, of human history, I should say. And so, this is an interesting one where it’s a bit scary, and also, it takes the opportunities of business to whole other levels that I don’t think anybody ever thought of. And you mentioned cybersecurity earlier. When it comes to technology, I heard the saying, if you don’t pay for the product, you are the product. You’ve heard that one before, I’m sure. Facebook, oh, it’s free. No, they just harvest all your data.
Shannon Rosic: We are the product, yeah.
Brad Johnson: Exactly. So, with all of these free AIs, I think when it comes to cybersecurity and when you look at finance, hackers target us for a reason because of the goldmine of information if they get through. What are your thoughts when it comes to AI and these free AI note takers? And you don’t actually know where your data is going. Is there any sort of… anything on the horizon when it comes to finance of like, wait, you shouldn’t use that because your personal identifying information could be being harvested and just going to some random place on the Internet where you have no idea where it’s going? Yeah, have you seen anything? Anybody having conversations around that?
Shannon Rosic: They’re starting to happen. It happened more. So, we have seen an uptick, like I said, for solutions that are specifically tailored to RIAs to help them with that. The biggest thing, honestly, what I’m hearing even outside of AI is firms are just still trying, like let alone that threat, they’re still trying just to figure out a way to make things like text messages compliant between advisors.
So, things like TeleSpeak or MyRepChat, things like that, there are solutions for it, but we can’t even get that right. That’s still such a massive pain point for firms is they can’t manage, if somebody has a personal phone, you’re friends with your client and sometimes you’re going to forget and it’s going to go out on your personal or something happens, right? Like, how are you maintaining that compliance and archiving to make sure if the SEC comes knocking, you can handle that, right? So, that’s scary stuff, number one. So, then you layer on…
Brad Johnson: So, what I kind of hear you saying between the lines is we can’t even figure out how text message properly yet. So, that’s probably a ways down the line before they figure that out.
Shannon Rosic: Right. And look, I think AI, it’s doing a lot of good. And I’ve certainly been guilty of being on the hype train hack. Like I said, I use it myself and it’s been nothing but a benefit, but it is always in the back of my mind of like, well, are they just going to create an avatar of me one day? And like, that’s that, and I can be broadcast all over and that’s whatever. So, I think about those things.
But it’s on a firm-by-firm basis, like everyone needs to have a policy around like data governance. That’s another thing that often comes up too in those think tanks that I mentioned is ensuring that everyone is clear on the expectations because things do slip through the cracks. And so, it’s more of a people problem than it is a technology problem because same thing as the data, if one thing is slipped up because of human error, that impacts everything.
It’s the same thing with this. If somebody is a bit of a weak link and they’re out there not being compliant, they’re shooting off stuff, they’re using these tools that maybe haven’t been approved within your firm or they haven’t been vetted, you haven’t done your due diligence, like just stay away from it. If you want to do things on your personal time and dabble just to learn, sure, encourage that. But when it comes to your actual business, I would stay away with that stuff for now because we don’t know yet what that actually looked like.
And as we know, and look, the retail industry is the perfect example of how we’ve become the product. I go back to the story about there is this news article years ago, this girl, her dad found out that she was… she was younger. He found out she was pregnant because he started getting emails about all this baby stuff and turns out she was pregnant, was shopping on Target, how all the targeted ads, Babies “R” Us, and it spiraled because now we get served up, obviously, as we know it. And so, you put one thing out there, it gets scraped, it gets aggregated somewhere, and next thing you know, you’re in trouble.
So, I say, any of that stuff, if you want to dabble on your personal time, great. You should be learning it. Again, the AI denialism is over. Nip that in the bud. Like I said the beginning of this, you should be playing with it, but within your firm, stay away because you’re going to create a headache for somebody who’s going to probably have to deal with that in the day. Because like I said, we don’t know yet. It is the Wild West. We are very much in the early stages. And while that’s exciting, that comes with consequences.
And I’ll say it again, the wait and see approach is over, experiment and be comfortable with it, but not at the expense of your business or your practice or impacting other people because you think it’s fun to play with these things. And like I said, great, but stay away professionally, I think for now because you can get into hot water.
Brad Johnson: Well, a prime example of that, ChatGPT, a lot of people don’t know if you do the paid version, you have to actually opt out of sharing your information. Did you know that there’s like a privacy setting on the back end? So, if you’re not opted out, wherever that cloud storage is going, your stuff’s there.
Shannon Rosic: That’s there, right. And they know more about you than probably most people at that point. I think that’s the strangest thing to me because that was something I had to look into because that’s, every firm, no matter what vertical or industry you’re in is dealing with this right now, I mean, folks are using this. I mean, I have the app on my phone, things like that. But I did research that to make sure I could opt out because I think everyone needs to shift their mindset a little bit around data. Like, our information is out there everywhere. So, just be cognizant of what you’re putting on there. And it’s creepy because it learns your voice and your tone and it learns about you. The more you prompt it and you learn quickly, the better the prompts, the better the responses. You can go down these rabbit holes, but then next thing you know, like you said, all that data is “there” with somebody else to possibly use against you.
Brad Johnson: Well, here’s two movie recommendations for those out there that are like, okay, I’m kind of falling into this AI rabbit hole. Have you seen the movie Her?
Shannon Rosic: Yes. Oh, my God.
Brad Johnson: Joaquin Phoenix, Scarlett Johansson. So, what’s funny is I think that’s like almost 10 years old now. And now, it’s actually becoming reality. They’re showing like people, like real humans are having romantic relationships with AI.
Shannon Rosic: Oh, yeah. And it’s scary because it doesn’t discriminate. I’ve seen headlines from teenagers all the way up to older adults having these AI relationships. So, yes, that movie was a bit ahead of its time.
Brad Johnson: There’s one, the other one, this one’s much wilder than I know. Elon’s all over the news lately with his robots. What are they called? Optimus. I think he stole that from Transformers from back in the day. So, have you seen the movie Ex Machina?
Shannon Rosic: Oh, gosh, it’s been a while, but yes.
Brad Johnson: That’s a wild one too. I won’t give away the ending, but that’ll scare you. So, yeah, if you want to spend, after you listen to this or watch this, yeah, if you want to see AI and where it could go, just watch those two. And sometimes, fiction becomes reality, so you never know, but…
Shannon Rosic: Yeah, exactly.
Brad Johnson: What… Yeah, go ahead.
Shannon Rosic: No, I was just going to say, just like, just kind of final thoughts on AI too. I think right now, too, in our space, it’s a lot of these overlays on existing solutions. We haven’t seen a lot of AI native solutions yet. But I think over really the next 5 to 10 years, we’ll have to rethink every software we use from an AI native standpoint, which basically means, how do we have AI tell us what to do next? Because its current limitation really lies in the fact that it’s designed to give us an answer every time opposed to really helping you learn or anticipating, right?
So, a lot of these kind of early implementation use cases that we’re seeing and developing so quickly, I think what happens next is going to be far more complex and materially different than what we’re experiencing now because in its current state, it’s bit of a slow boiling pot and the water’s warm right now and you don’t want to be the one jumping in at the last second. So, I think, we talk about workflow, so making things like those everyday tasks approachable, you should be experimenting. But I think things are going to change exponentially in the next couple of years. It’s going to be a wild ride.
Brad Johnson: So, let’s go there. So, let’s just say today, let’s say I’m overseeing $1 billion RIA. It’s kind of the standard, not an aggregator, but it’s our legitimate practice. I’ve got a team of advisors, team of 20, 25, let’s say. So, I’ve got a budget and I hire Shawn and I say, “Hey, come in. I want you to be my consultant.” And our goal over the next three, four, five years is to build a moat around the castle here to AI proof us where AI doesn’t replace us. What sort of things would you be thinking about? What sort of questions would you be asking if you were advising me?
Shannon Rosic: So, first thing I would say is you need to make sure that you’re building a tech stack that aligns with your firm’s goals, mainly growth goals, too. So, that should be number one. What technology? How can you leverage technology to free up your time, ensuring that you’re focusing on the right things so you are constantly focused on that growth goal? I think really prioritizing that client-centric technology, that’s adding a lot of tangible value because what we’ve seen is kind of where we are now is these platforms, they’re very advisor centric, right? And the goal is to have seamless integration, single sign-on, a better client experience, better UI/UX.
And so, I would say you need to make sure you’re investing in technology that strikes that balance because at the end of the day, it should all be about the client. So, if you have a particular niche that you’re honing in on, if you’re a firm that solely focuses on, say, divorcees or widowed women, do you have technology in simple things, even if it’s like a data visualization that you can pull together and easily distill things down into kind of that one page financial report? Are you making sure that technology ladders up to your firm’s goals, your mission, and your values is number one? Staying informed about developments that are happening.
So, I always say you start with your core, which is your investment management, your financial planning, CRM. If you have those down, well, those are integrated and you kind of start there with the hub. That’s when you can start getting a bit more fun and you can kind of spoke off and get into things like estate planning, specialized planning. If you’re focusing on retirement, for example, you can start looking at things like AI prospecting, the catch slides, the AI identifiers of the world, folks like that.
And then, even going beyond that, we’re seeing so much around. Going back to your point of the human element to making sure it doesn’t replace you, look at all the behavioral science data that we have now that folks can work with, and now we have all these behavior assessment tools, advice engagement tools, things like nudge your Asset-Map or Lumiant, Atlas Point.
Daniel Crosby from Orion has been a champion of this for a long time. You can start dabbling with those things to go deeper with your clients. That’s why they’re there to help align your goals, so you can do that. And then, you know what? I still think the client portal is still such an important thing that folks sometimes still overlook. Like, a lot of firms still don’t have that, right?
Brad Johnson: Yeah. So, selfishly, let’s hit on that one because here, we are deep in the build out of our member portal. What are the non-negotiables, in your opinion? Obviously, we integrate both insurance planning and asset management, but what would be some things we should be thinking about, if these are the pillars of a good portal, what should those be?
Shannon Rosic: So, have you talked to the guys at Fynancial, yeah, Tom Fields and his team? So, they have done something really, really interesting. Like, look, you have your e-moneys, your InvestClouds, your Envest tax, CircleBlack that will help with them, kind of like that client world aspect. But Fynancial is so interesting to me because they are…
Brad Johnson: So, financialist, is that what you’re saying?
Shannon Rosic: No, the firm is called Fynancial with a Y.
Brad Johnson: Oh, okay. Got it.
Shannon Rosic: And it’s this really awesome, unified mobile experience that’s tailor built for RIAs. And so, everything is brand on the app. It’s all on your phone. It’s seamless. It combines traditional wealth management tools with modern social engagement features and engagement being the keyword, right? And so, the biggest thing is, is your client portal, is it easy to access? Do you have to jump around?
Brad Johnson: How many different logins you have to get the information? Yes, like single sign-on is a non-negotiable these days.
Shannon Rosic: So, yes, so that really is number one. I’m sure you’re seeing it. Mobile is so popular now. Again, that gets back into the whole cyber insecurity thing. But at the same time, you’ve got to meet clients where they are, you can’t physically be elbow 24/7, but with a mobile login and they can just look on their phone quickly, is everything displayed in one place? Is it easy to see just their overall account balances? Are the important things that they care about immediately front and center for them? So, they know, like, okay, I’m in a good spot. They can reach out to you if they have specific questions, if there’s a market downturn or they want to diversify or whatever it may be. But all of that core information should be easily front and center.
And then, you should be able to access your advisor from that portal. Is there a feature that maybe you can go out into a chat? You have all these AI chatbots now that can help, or is there just an easy way? If you do have questions, boom! I can just go right here within the portal and be able to access my advisor, if I do need that human guidance at the end of the day. So, there’s still that fine balance of, again, I’m still a firm believer that no one… an advisor isn’t going to be replaced anytime soon, but you need to find other ways to bring in value than just beyond what it used to be.
So, folks, notice things like this. Do you have an easy, seamless experience from the moment you are onboarded? Can you access your information easily? Do you have to reach out? Or do you have to email your advisor? Like, who has time for that? No one. The advisor and the client don’t. So, if you’re going in, just make sure everything, single sign-on. It’s an easy experience, integrated with the data that they want to be able to see, and listen to feedback, too, if client…
Brad Johnson: There’s a novel idea.
Shannon Rosic: I mean that can go down the rabbit hole. But a lot of firms that I’ve seen going back to that build versus buy, they’re building what they think is best and where they excel in. But are they taking the end client into consideration? Because again, if you don’t know who you’re going after, who you want to focus this for, it’s not going to work. It needs to feel tailor made and built for that client, right? Like, they just don’t want some generic experience with bells and whistles they don’t need. Just give them the stuff they want.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. Well, you said it earlier, meet them where they’re at. At Triad, our definition of that is member obsession. We want to build on their behalf, and a lot of the technology solutions, because it’s so hard, it’s like just to even get these, you look at the world of insurance, in the world of asset management, it’s almost like two different religions that are fighting sometimes in finance. And the truth is, the software is built on one side or don’t really talk to the other. And to integrate those together, it’s like messy, it’s clunky.
But I will tell you just straight up, our thesis is we’re going to do it no matter what it takes. And it has to be, see, I’m like thinking Apple product. Like, the original iPod, why it took over the world, it was not the first MP3 player, but look at every other MP3 player, they were clunky. You had to read an instruction manual to use them. iPod just worked. You just plugged it in. The songs were there. You have the little scroll wheel. Then it went to the iPhone. And so, I think the minimalistic, kind of the seamless, the user interface, it just has to be easy. It just has to be intuitive and you have to get it. And unfortunately, that’s really hard to do.
Shannon Rosic: And then that’s why people don’t realize, like I can sit here and say, ooh, just make it easy. Just make sure they’re right integrations. Well, that takes work effort, road map planning, like money over, like…
Brad Johnson: A lot of money, then more money after that, and then…
Shannon Rosic: More than you probably anticipated, just free exit, whatever you thought it was. But I want to flip the script a little bit because I want to ask you something because this is also a trend I’m following. You brought it up with insurance and wealth management because one of my hopes for this year and beyond is, is that we continue to actually see this convergence of industry, so health care, insurance, wealth. Wouldn’t it be nice, say, if you’re looking on Zillow to buy a house, boom! Your mortgage is sorted. Everything’s all there in one spot. So, whether it’s health care, education, retirement, every life event, I think should have financial services baked into that experience.
So, just curious, where you’re seeing the puck moving, I mean, we’ve had all these kind of health tech providers crop up that have made inroads in wealth management and now they’re getting zapped up. You’re seeing even the RPA side of things. You’re seeing RIAs buy RPA businesses to start focusing on 401(k) and managing plans. And so, it’s interesting convergence, it’s going to be clunky, but I think it’s the right way to go because that’s what people want at the end of the day. Easy, all in one place.
Brad Johnson: Well, Shannon, I’ve lived this. And the cool thing is we’ve seen this already, we’ve seen this story play out. Look at Amazon. They started with books, what they do. I mean, Jeff Bezos, if you go back and watch some old interviews, they started with books not by accident, but because there was such a large SKU, they were easy to ship, not too big, so easy to carry large inventory. And he’s like, we’re going to sell these all over, not only the country, but the world because there’s a demand there. And you go into your local bookstore, they don’t have the one you need. So, how do you get it?
And now, they’re the everything store. And you go to them for everything because it’s easy, it’s intuitive, it’s one-stop shopping. So, I’ll kind of, my analogy, I’ll apply that to the fiduciary approach. So, I grew up in the insurance world. We all have our biases. Some know that we have them, some don’t.
And I started cold calling to grow a book of clients back in 2007 in an insurance brokerage model. If I picked up and it was an RIA or a registered rep at a broker-dealer, this would have been ‘07, ‘08, and I said the word annuity, I had a dial tone in my ear. That’s how it worked. And so, what I saw, though, over, I guess, almost 20 years now in this space, thank God it’s converging because my definition of a fiduciary approach, which I believe, I was funny, I was just talking to our PR firm, I’m like, I think this is going to be a fun article, so I’ll get your take and you tell me if it’s trash and we’ll just throw it away. But I think the definition of fiduciary is broken in finance. It’s been weaponized as a marketing term.
And in fact, the definition is legally do what’s in the best interest of your client. And I believe to legally do what’s in the best interest of your client, you need all of the financial tools possible in the toolbox, and then you select the best tool to do the job most efficiently for the client. And from my experience, clients don’t care. They don’t want to get down on the toolbox and rummage around with you. They just want a financial plan. You mentioned some great tools, like Asset-Map. They just want an intuitive plan that says, “Oh, cool, I can retire and do those bucket list trips I’ve been dreaming of. I’ve got a budget to go see the grandkids that move five states over a couple of times a year, and it’s just a plan that works.” And so, my thesis is a true fiduciary in financial services is actually putting as many tools as an independent advisor as possible in the toolbox, and then actually, truly, being a fiduciary and grabbing the right ones for the job. So, that’s my take. That’s our mission.
Shannon Rosic: Honestly…
Brad Johnson: I’m on board with that.
Shannon Rosic: I am. And thank you for calling it out because this is actually a conversation I just had with our senior tech editor, Davis Janowski. We were debating this, a trend I follow very closely is the millennial and Gen Z expectations in financial services and the future of advice there. And he made a good point. And I have to agree with him. We keep hearing similar to this is that democratization of advice, which like, look, yes, we’re getting there, but the other day, it’s kind of BS, like there’s still so much wood to be cut there when it comes to it, because let’s be honest, wealth management still caters to high net worth or the more affluent. Like, we’re not there and we… how long have we been hearing democratization, like this? So, this tool will do this. And it’s like…
Brad Johnson: And those biases that are formed with, like I said, we all have them because I mean, how finance came to be, it was a product distribution network. So, if you look at just a lot of captive groups, you are trained to sell what’s on the shelf, and what’s on the shelf is different based on the firm. And in one firm, annuities are the best thing that you’ve ever seen and heard and they’re the best and every retiree should have them. And another firm across the street, they’re the worst thing possible. And oh, my gosh, you should never do that. And unfortunately, the one caught in the middle is the retiree that’s just looking for great advice that’s going to help them in the most efficient way.
Shannon Rosic: Great. And our industry is so much on the accumulation aspect that we’re finally starting to see that shift of, oh, yeah, I need to take them through decumulation too because there could be opportunities there as well. So, that’s a whole other episode.
Brad Johnson: Hey, I believe, fact check this, somebody on the internet or ChatGPT it, I believe statistically, those that perish trying to summit Mount Everest, the vast majority it’s on, they’ve already actually reached the peak. It’s on getting back to the bottom, and that’s my analogy for life is you’ve got your accumulation phase, your working years. Well, now, you’ve got your nest egg. Now, has to get you to the end. Your income has to last as long as you do. And so, it’s a really important problem to solve and it takes a different set of tools to do it because it’s risk mitigation. It’s making it last. It’s not maximizing returns at that point.
Right, right, exactly. So, I mean, I’m hopeful that we’ll have more of that because, I mean, I even speak to my own personal experience. I’m a dink, or somebody affectionately called me the other day, a DISH, a dual income sports horses, which is probably worth a thing. The dual income…
Brad Johnson: Hey, you deserve your own label.
Shannon Rosic: That’s not my own label. But it’s funny because when I was first out in the market looking for an advisor, I came across a woman that I love, but she was like, “Oh, I’m sorry. We’re not taking on folks like you.” I got with another advisor, and he kind of just threw everything into a Monte Carlo Simulation. I checked out at that point because I was like, “Why aren’t you asking me the questions that matter? Why am I telling you?” Like, all of this, like, why aren’t you trying to dig a little bit deeper? I’m the ideal client for a lot of folks because you’d have the longevity with me. Again, dual income, no kids, like we have goals that we’ve established.
Brad Johnson: You’re Chiefs fans. So, you’re good people.
Shannon Rosic: Exactly, exactly. I should probably find an advisor in this.
Casey has got a great market for you. I promise. There’s a lot of Chiefs fans advisors. So, have you seen the trend of basically… who was I talking? I think Thomas Kopelman I had a conversation with on this. I think his model actually, for high income but not a lot of assets accumulated yet, because a lot of firms who have minimums, they’ll charge a percent of income for financial planning. Have you seen those models? What do you think about that?
Shannon Rosic: I think it’s a good thing. I think we’re going to see another kind of fundamental shift in the way firms are structured, in the way their fee models are structured. Obviously, you’ve heard and seen all the headlines about fee compression, everything going to zero. You’re going to have your standard tried and true fee onlys. I think that’s great, but I think there’s space for other ways because folks are going to be more comfortable if they have options at the end of the day.
So, I think it’s a good thing that we’re starting to see these different kind of compensation models within firms to be able to offer folks because not everyone wants to do the one or two basis points or do the fee only. So, I think having this shift and folks are realizing they need to find other ways to obviously keep making money. So, I think it’s honestly a good thing.
Brad Johnson: Very cool. Well, Shannon, time flew.
Shannon Rosic: Yeah, they did.
Brad Johnson: We’re over our scheduled time, but it’s been a blast. So, I just have one final question on my side. As you know, this is the Do Business, Do Life podcast and Triad’s definition of that is, it’s the infinite game. We want to crush business. We want to crush life and kind of the integration versus the tug of war of the balance. So, I’d love to hear what Shannon’s definition of doing business and doing life.
Shannon Rosic: Oh boy! Okay, this is a big life question. But I think, for me, it’s all about creating that harmony between what you do and who you are. So, I look at myself, I’m a content creator, I’m a horse girl, those are the things that define me. Not all of them. I have more. But those are the two big things that really do. And so, it’s about building a career that fuels your passion, but never at the expense of the life that you want to live.
You’ve heard the saying everyone’s heard, you work to live or live to work, right? And you can go either way. And then there’s no right answer. It’s just who you are and what you love to do. But to me, it’s really about breaking out of the mindset that success is measured only by metrics and achievements and realizing that true fulfillment comes in the balancing act because that is one of the hardest things to do. I mean, heck, I was on my computer til 1 a.m. last night and I was like, “Oh, no, how did this happen?” I’m working away.
But then on the flipside, it’s like, well, I do that, so I have time so I can actually go to the barn during the day and spend time with my horses and working with them. And so, look, if I to have a couple of late nights, that’s the tradeoff. But if you can find that balance between your work life, your relationships, and your personal growth, you are winning at life and you’re probably ahead of 99% of people in the world if you can kind of keep that all in perspective. So, for me, it’s all about just being intentional, lead with that, create a career that brings you joy and meaning, but leave room for the life that energizes you to keep going.
Brad Johnson: Love it. Well, by the way, shout-out to Sara Baker. This has been an incredible conversation. She made the intro. So, Sara leads our Triad Wealth team, which is all over the tech side. Trust me, there’s some so much going on in that tech stack right now, actually.
Shannon Rosic: Sara, the podcast, she’s like one of the people I’ve heard.
Brad Johnson: Have you had her on your podcast yet?
Shannon Rosic: Oh, yeah, yeah, I had Sara.
Brad Johnson: Oh, awesome.
Shannon Rosic: She was phenomenal, but I expected nothing less.
Brad Johnson: She crushes every podcast. I mean, shoot, I might just have her take this one over. She’s so good, but… well, thanks so much, Shannon. I’ve enjoyed every minute. Thanks for geeking out with us on tech and look forward to when our paths cross in person.
Shannon Rosic: Yeah, likewise. Hopefully, sooner than later, gets you out on the road. I’m glad we finally made this happen after several trials and tribulations. But thank you again. It’s an honor to just be on here speaking with you, because the guests you have, I’ve listened to several of your episodes and the guests you have, I’m just glad I wasn’t like episode 100 or a big milestone or anything. So, truly, an absolute pleasure talking to you, getting to know you. And this is a lot of fun. Like I said, it’s always weird for me being on the other side of the mic.
Brad Johnson: I was going to tell you, you crushed it on the other side of the mic, so you should do it more.
Shannon Rosic: Oh, thank you.
Brad Johnson: Well, until next time and be well.
