Uncover Your Core Values and Build a Business You Never Want to Retire From

Brad Johnson: Welcome back to another episode of Do Business. Do Life. Robert Glazer, welcome back, my man. How are you today?

Robert Glazer: Brad, it’s good to see you. It’s been a while.

Brad Johnson: You’re starting to become like a regular, which is kind of fun. You guested on the old show,

Robert Glazer: I’m wearing out my welcome, I think, in some places.

Brad Johnson: No. You just keep cranking out good books. The lessons keep hitting, so we’ve got to keep sharing them. So, today I know we’re going to get into your latest book, which is super exciting, The Compass Within. What’s the official launch date?

Robert Glazer: October 14th.

Brad Johnson: Okay. So, as we sit here and record this, what are we? September 20, what today?

Robert Glazer: Don’t remind me.

Brad Johnson: September 26th. Yeah, it’s right around the corner.

Robert Glazer: We’re in the final stretch, which is why I look like I lost a boxing fight.

Brad Johnson: Is this kind of like you feel like you have a new child every time you have a new book? What’s the comparison?

Robert Glazer: It is. Look, writing the book in retrospect ends up feeling like the easy part, giving birth to it. If you’re trying to do, look, I’ve written some niche books, like I’ve written some marketing books. I wrote a book really targeted towards HR people about how to eliminate two weeks’ notice. So, you do launches that are appropriate to those communities. This book, I think, can help a lot of people and apply it in a ton of places. So, this is a broad full-scale launch, and it has just been six months at half of every day. And then if you people who haven’t launched a book before, always like, “I don’t understand. What are you doing?” And the people who have, they’re like, “No, no, I get it. You’re trading every favor you’ve ever had in the last 10 years and trying to…”

Look, and launch week’s important. We just live in a momentum-driven world, and obviously, you have to write a good book for it to not fall off a cliff. But if you think you wrote a good book, then if you start strong, if you start well, it’s a leg up.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. And those that didn’t have a chance to hear our past episodes or haven’t really connected with you yet, what’s really cool is you’re not just like another business guy that built a cool business, sold it, and now you’re becoming an author to give you something to do. You, actually partially, at how you helped build your business was it started with a weekly email called the Friday Forward. It’s still going today. And you were just sourcing from real-world business learnings and kind of sharing them out to the world, and that got a ton of traction. I feel like if there was like a jumping off point to becoming an author, that had to be a big piece of it, right?

Robert Glazer: That was a big piece. I actually started writing some controversial marketing stuff in our industry and kind of poking the bear and realized that I could connect to people through writing. And, yeah, that newsletter triggered more writing, and that triggered me to try to turn it into a book, which I had never kind of, I had thought about a book, but I had never done it before. So, yeah, everything kind of spirals or happens for a reason, not spirals in a bad way, but sort of snowballs is the word I was looking for. And I ended up kind of doing that. My sort of unique differentiating point, I think, for when I work with teams or organizations or speaking is like, look, I have a bunch of these frameworks and things that I’ve developed over the years that I think are really helpful to people and teams and help them grow.

And that looks more like some of the academic people you would see, or kind of writers or thought leaders. But I’ve also started five businesses and run one of them and built a huge company that won 30 best places to work awards. And so, like a lot of these things are things that I’ve tested and done. So, you tend to have sometimes these great leaders who don’t know how to structure information. I remember Adam Grant talking about how he hated having diving coaches that were the best divers because they were just like, “Yeah. You just do that and pull back and do the thing.” And like they don’t know how to coach, whereas someone else really understood the mechanics and the intricacy. Sometimes the talent’s so high that people don’t know how to teach.

So, I try to have things that can help people improve and get better, but they’re almost always real-world tested. I always say you can read the best academics on firing someone or laying them off. What’s the perfect layoff? And then the first time someone screams and yells at you and throws a book at you, like, that’s all out the window.

Brad Johnson: No doubt. My analogy, that was one of my biggest learnings with Triad as an entrepreneur the last five years, I coached entrepreneurs for a decade and a half prior to that. Different to be in the classroom studying it versus being in the trenches doing it, to your point. I mean, “I’ll let them go if they’re not working. That’s easy.” Yeah, right. Do it in real life.

Robert Glazer: Yeah. You just have a direct and honest conversation and tell them, you know. You’re assuming that there’s no emotion in that. I think there’s something funny about these entrepreneurial classes when they’re not taught by entrepreneurs, like it’s kind of like academic. Like, the first thing should be like how to make payroll. What does it look like to make payroll when you’re stressed and move around money? It’s funny. Former founders that go teach a business school and teach that, to me, that’s great. That’s almost like case study. Someone who’s never been an entrepreneur teaching an entrepreneurialism class like I don’t know. That doesn’t sit right with me.

Brad Johnson: I couldn’t agree more. And there is a lot of that. It’s theory. It sounds sexy on Instagram, but in reality, you’re like, “No, that doesn’t work in the real world,” you know?

Robert Glazer: Yeah, exactly.

Brad Johnson: Okay. So, I want to jump to this book because one of the things before we hit record that I love, I’m a big fan of Patrick Lencioni, obviously super well-known business author. And one of his trademarks is he writes business lessons in parables and stories, and they’re typically like pretty skinny books that you don’t have to spend two months diving through.

Robert Glazer: You can finish in a day. Yeah.

Brad Johnson: One of my buddies calls them airplane books. You can start reading it when the plane takes off. By the time you land, you’re through it. And I’ve read your other books that were a lot more what I would call standard business books. Good stuff. Obviously, great lessons from the real world, like you talked about. This is a parable. And what’s really cool, it’s got those kind of Patrick Lencioni, like Five Dysfunctions of Team vibes, where you’ve got your main character. Jamie. I won’t ruin it, so you can go out and sell some books. I’ll just set the preface. Jamie rolls in, looks at the wall on the office building he’s been working on. There’s like five core values that are complete BS. Everybody knows it’s a front. Nobody could even recall them.

Last time he heard them was three years ago when he got hired, and his boss, Stacy, basically pulls him in a conference room and says, “Hey, I’m quitting. I wish I could take you with me. I can’t. But good news, you’re getting promoted.” So, maybe as we start to unpack pieces, like lessons along the story, what’s the why behind this thing? What motivated you to write it in the first place?

Robert Glazer: Well, how much time do you have? It’s actually a 10-year story of getting the parable, which I’ll try to make in maybe three minutes or less. So, 2013, I went to a leadership training just as my business was growing with Entrepreneurs’ Organization. It was a pretty exclusive 25 people from all around the world. I was super psyched. I’m like, “We’re going to get to learn these tactics and how to lead, and I’m going to be a better leader.” And the first two days were just this like big mirror in our face like, “All right. Who are you? What do you value?” If you’re going to be an authentic leader, you got to start there. Well, that was really helpful because I think I have really strong core values, but to a lot of people, I can’t articulate them, right?

And so, I went on this, but I was like, “But this is important to me, and I believe in this.” And I kind of went on this three to six-month odyssey of looking around and keyword lists and all this stuff, and I built the process of like real kind of core values, and I was like, “Yes, this is me. This is what matters for me,” and I went and augmented my life and my business, and anything anyone reads in my bio actually kind of comes after that point. I realized that three years ago when someone was reading my bio, and I was like, “God, everything was after that moment.” So, I thought it was so important.

As we were building our company, we started like top gun leadership training for our best leaders, and I kind of took the process I built with each class and started helping them figure out their personal core values as part of their leadership development. And they were great results, and people really improved, and we saw a lot of breakthroughs. And after like three or four classes, I kind of had it down. I had a repeatable process.

Brad Johnson: How long? Like, I want to dive in a little bit there because if I’m an advisor listening right now, they’re like, that’s one of the biggest things where I see founders get stuck is it’s all up here, obviously, the drive, the heart, the why of the business, why they found it in the first place. But to replicate that into the next level down of leadership is oftentimes where they get stuck. So, you called it top gun leadership. You’re just one day you’re like, “Got to do this. There’s a big gap. The team’s not leading the way I would,” or what drove that whole thing?

Robert Glazer: No. We were growing so fast and we had to build leaders, and I had taken some of these leadership programs with EO, and I was like, “I want to bring this into the company. I want to take our next 10 up-and-coming leaders and give them this kind of two-day offsite and start to really build their capacity,” to use my language from Elevate. So, you need to build people if you want them to grow and fill those cracks and those next levels as you grow. So, we would train them on all sorts of stuff. And it was very much inspired by the leadership training that I went to, this kind of five-day program of like let’s start with who you are and the tactics and communicate. Let’s figure out all the big important things.

So, I saw that it worked, and I wrote this book, Elevate, around this time, and I talked about this concept of spiritual capacity and figuring out your strengths, it’s not religious, and what you value. And your core values were a big part of that, and they’re like, “Yeah, I want to do this. Like, so how do I do it?” And I can point them to some resources, but I was like, “It’s not that easy. I have a process, but I teach it. I can’t just give it to you. Like, I have a curriculum.” And I was like my dominant core value is to find a better way and share it, hence the book and why I’m on the podcast.

So, I was like, “You know what? I’m going to turn this curriculum into a course.” So, I turned it into a course. We used it for our employees, and then I also kind of put it out in the world, and 2,000 people have taken it, and people shared all these amazing stories. I’m like, “This worked.” When people figure this out, they hear the topic, and they’re like core values, but when they see what I’m talking about, they get this clarity where they can articulate the things they know that matters to them. The problem is we’re a little bit like, with most of us, like you hit the electric fence and you know you’re getting electrocuted. The goal is to not have to get electrocuted to know that you’re in the wrong space.

So, I was like, “Look, I want to get this to more people. It’s impactful. I should write a book. I’ve written books.” And I just had this vision. It always comes in my head of walking through a Barnes & Noble. I’m walking past this book called On Values or Core Values, and no one would pick it up because they’d be like, “I’m not going to read a book about core values. That sounds super boring.” It sounded boring to me, and I challenged my kids to do things outside their comfort zone all the time. And coincidentally, my daughter was like, “You live in the nonfiction world. You read nonfiction, you write nonfiction, like you should write a fiction book.” And between that, I had read one of Lencioni’s books recently.

And I was like, “Huh, maybe this would work. I think I could actually get people interested in this if I could show them. If I could come up with a character that they could relate to.” And, Jamie, I’ve heard from people who read the book like you, they’re just like, “Yeah, I was Jamie in that situation.” Jamie is just a mirror on all of us on a situation we’ve probably had. And so, I mean, you can tell me, but that was my thought. I’ll show it and then at the end I’ll tell it. And I’ll give them the framework from this course in the book, and they now will see what it looks like, and then they could be interested to do that work. So, that’s the 10-year version in five minutes or less.

Brad Johnson: So, I’ll tell you within the first five pages of the first chapter, I already saw myself in Jamie. And I think that’s the power of a story.

Robert Glazer: Well, I know your story, so I’m sure, yeah.

Brad Johnson: I mean, humans are built on stories. That’s what we’ve done for thousands of years. That’s how we transfer knowledge. So, our brains are wired to be kind of drawn in by stories. And it’s funny, one of the promises Shawn, my co-founder, and myself made when we started Triad is we will never have anything on our wall that we don’t believe and won’t be willing to be called out on. Like, not just us down saying, “This is what’s important to the team,” but the team up saying, “This is you being held accountable to what you said this company is about.”

Robert Glazer: And it’s not what’s on the wall, right? It’s how you operationalize it. It’s what you reinforce. My favorite email I got this year, I do some consulting work with organizations. I don’t really publicize it on their core values, which is totally different. There are some similarities to the personal stuff. We’re talking about personal, but it’s a different process because it’s about the collective and not one person. But my favorite email I got this week was from, I said, “Hey, how’s it going?” We redid the values six months later, and they responded. They’re like, “It’s going great. We now have behavioral-based interview questions for all of our core values. We just started a newsletter that has core values shoutouts. The HR team has agreed to pull the values into promotion and recognition. We have the first core value awards scheduled for whatever.” And I was like, “Love this, like A student.” That’s how you make…

Brad Johnson: So, that’s how you rip them off the wall and infuse them into behavior, is what I hear you saying.

Robert Glazer: Correct. So, every organization has values. It’s just they’re probably not what’s on the wall because whatever you reward or incentivize, and you might do it directly or not directly. You might pay people for certain behaviors, or you might say, “Brad, awesome job, like working the weekend last weekend, and I’m incentivizing you just putting in really long hours. Not, whatever, being more outcome-oriented.” So, yeah, look, what they wrote on the wall was really good. This was a teaching hospital, and they had no core value about sort of elevating others with you. And they realized like, “You have to be someone that leads and trains,” like just really obvious. That’s what we want to reward.

So, look, we’re training a puppy right now. Like, it’s the same thing. It’s what do you get a treat for, and what do you get a bad boy or girl for? Humans will just evolve their behavior around that. That’s all culture is, what’s rewarded and what’s not.

Brad Johnson: So, let’s rapid-fire those again real quick, because there were some good ideas in there. So, let’s say I’ve actually done the work and I’ve got at least three to five things that are important to me as a founder that I’ve somewhat shared to the team, whether they’re core values or kind of themes or behaviors. So, you’re now creating awards around that team that was recognized.

Robert Glazer: Yeah. I think we have a six-point thing, and I can probably get both of them. So, one is you should have behavioral-based interview questions, and ChatGPT can do this. So, if your core value is “Do one more,” then tell me about a time when you had to do one more. I mean, when you ask people behavioral-based questions, you can find how they play… Like, we have a core value of “Own it.” Tell me when you screwed up something in the past and how it was resolved? They will tell a story where they did nothing wrong and everything else, whatever, or they will tell a story where there are some humility and they took responsibility for what they did or otherwise.

So, that’s when you’re in, you need some celebration, whether it’s shout-outs or newsletters, or people are like, “Hey, I just want to nominate Brad. He went one more yesterday with our client Acme, like, here’s what he did.” So, then people start hearing it. Performance reviews, performance discussions, quarterly check-ins, and then the coolest thing we do is these big peer award ceremony at the end of the year, all nominated by peers, and they win the core value awards. Like, there’s one for each. There’s an all-around. So, not to get distracted from the personal stuff, but I’ll preempt the question a lot of people ask me, like, where do these come together?

Well, you have your own personal core values, particularly as a founder. That’s going to transmit into the firm. But then when you get to six or seven or eight or nine people, they’re not going to be exact because you can’t just make it a duplication of yourself, but you’re going to attract people that connect with the same things you connect and you’re saying, “Okay. What things do we all agree with?” What’s different is, in a company, it’s about shared things that you agree that you’re going to hold dear. For you, it’s very personal. It often requires a look back into childhood, formative years. I mean, I didn’t know if this is going to happen, but I’ve been doing a bunch of podcasts. I was on a big one yesterday.

I’ve gotten people when I’m like, “All right. Where did that come from?” They’re like they open up, like either we are doubling down on things from our childhood or we are running away, the opposite, and it’s showing up in our adult selves and how we manage and how we lead. And I’m not a therapist, and I am not going to go back and analyze it and change it. But what I’m going to say is you got to understand that’s really strong for you and if you were someone that had a huge violation of trust in your childhood, and this happens a lot with anyone that has a trust core value, and I’ll ask them, “Hey, I’m not going to ask you what it was, but my experience is this is a violation of trust.”

And there’ll be like a tear in their eye or they’ll be ashen in face. So, let’s just make an assumption. A parent just up and left in the middle of the night and blindsided them, right? The rest of their life has been about trying to figure out whether they can trust people. And that’s their ordering mechanism of their friendship and their leadership, or otherwise. And the question is, it’s dominant and it sets off radar. But if the people on their team don’t know that, and they don’t know that if you come five minutes late to my meeting and you miss the deadline, you’re like in the penalty box without the key, then that becomes a really debilitating leadership strategy to just be sorting people into like boxes that they don’t know they’re in.

If you knew that and you went to your team and you said, “Hey, guys, hey Brad, Sarah, Jenny Marshall, just welcome to my team. Just so you know, trust is really important to me. Here are the ways that it’s broken, and if it’s broken, you’ll probably feel a distance between us, and you should come and we should have a conversation.” Totally different outcome. And this person’s 40 years old. You’re not going to tell them at this point. This is hardwired in. This is who they are. This is how they lead. This is how they show up in the world. It’s why they’re great at some things. It’s why they’re really not good at some things. You are not going to change them at that point, and they’re not going to change, and they just have to learn how to understand that.

Brad Johnson: Well, as a leader, back to personal core values, you have to know thyself. Like, put your oxygen mask on first before you help somebody else put theirs on. And I’ve got a friend who also happens to be a business coach, and he’s saying there are two groups of people, that’s almost universal, they have serious trauma in their background. Number one, entrepreneurs, to your point, and number two, inmates.

Robert Glazer: By the way, what’s the concentric circles on that?

Brad Johnson: Well, I think some entrepreneur friends I know should probably either were inmates or should be, but, yeah, I think what’s cool about that insight is back to being self-aware enough to understand what makes you tick. But then, if you’re going to lead people communicating that, we actually have a one-page doc, how to work with me, which to me, that’s really cool. Here’s the core values.

Robert Glazer: That’s where that would go. Whether it’s your DiSC or your whatever. Like, here are my values, like I’m giving you my playbook. You’re managing up to me. I was on a different podcast with a guy who’s very academic. I didn’t think he would open up, and I was doing my little test, which I can do with you around, like the ultimate test of a value. So, when a value is violated, it feels horrible. That’s the nature of it, right? So, often, the way to sort of figure out a value is to work from the inverse, and like what is something that just, what’s the person or the thing that makes you squirm or uncomfortable or whatever? And he was describing the situation, and it turns out, look, his value was about like you have to be credible.

I could start to see that I locked in. He’s like, “You need to be credible. You need to show up to discussions, know what you’re talking about, whenever.” And so, then again, I was like, “I’m not going to ask you where, but like that has to come from like… That sounds like a mom or a dad, or I’m guessing a dad.” And he was like, “Well, of course it is,” and then he had a very vulnerable moment. But I don’t know the story, but I’ve heard stories like it. So, I’m guessing for that kid what happened is because the way that he described what is so important to him is that a parent showed up often and said things that were fundamentally not true but said them in a way that were incredibly convincing, and would just kind of bully people into like, this is what it was.

And this kid is a very smart world-renowned author now and stuff and eventually got old enough and realized all that stuff wasn’t true, and people who assert themselves and talk in this way often don’t know what they’re talking about. And that just became like, it was just so, when we locked into it, he’s like, “Yes, credibility.” Like, he went from being skeptical on the whole thing to we had three of his core values in like five minutes because that anti-test was just so on point for him.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. Let’s go back to the founder. So, we’ve kind of identified they built a business based on themes, sometimes tied back to trauma. How often do you see that trauma from childhood mom and dad versus maybe trauma from, “Hey, I worked at this place,” and they actually kind of did a similar thing. They said some things, but they didn’t do them, and so I built my business to fix what was wrong with that one. How frequently did those play in?

Robert Glazer: Well, interestingly, I think most of the values get baked in formative life experiences and, obviously, early jobs can do that. But what probably happened in that case was you worked somewhere where it was the opposite of a value. You didn’t realize that it was invalidating a value. And so, then, yes, you went the other way. The problem is, and I’m glad you asked that question, because I have a slide sometimes when I talk about this with a kind of technicolor dream coat, like patchwork quilt. And I say, look, a lot of people come to leadership and they go, “I loved Brad. He was an amazing leader. These are the things I’m going to take from Brad. And by the way, Bob was terrible. I’m going to do the opposite of Bob.”

And so, I build this leadership strategy that’s like other people’s highlights. That’s still not authentic, right? I did this. I took some things from other people, and I was like, “Ugh,” that was my kind of moment. I’m like, “That did not feel like me.” So, probably in those other organizations, yes, there’s policies and stuff, but if you peeled it back, probably what happened was you are a person that deeply values authenticity, and you went to a place where everything was fake and people didn’t say their word. And so, you probably then just did align that more to your values. It was that place. If you read the book, you probably realize that place was violating values they already had. And what it may have done is reinforce it for you, but depending on when it happened, it probably didn’t create it.

Trauma can be a loaded word these days. The way I like to say it is, what I have found is the values for most people go to something in their childhood that was really important and they are doubling down on, or it was painful and they want to do the opposite. The trick on this, and this is why we don’t go back and victimize in my version of it, pain and purpose lie right next to each other. Pain is a great driver. A lot of my purpose is driven from pain, and it’s just understanding that, right? Because sometimes, as Brené Brown says, we put on this armor and this armor serves us for a while, and then at some point we’ve done what we needed to do, and then it’s just heavy when you’re carrying it around.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. Well, all right, so you kind of connected at least one dot there for me, which is grew up small town, Kansas, town of 2,000 people, like not one traffic light in the town. And I think when you grow up in an environment like that, you realize really quickly if you’re not a person of your word, if you’re not authentic and real, everybody knows really quickly. That guy just BS everybody. He’s full of it, you know? And so, I think when that’s like ingrained and embedded into you from an early age, and you go back and you go into any sort of life experience, business experience, where it’s like, “Oh, no, they’re doing the opposite of that. They’re flat out like the bait and switch,” then it’s not true to your core, so you rebel against it and say, “I’m going to do it different.” And so, just following my breadcrumb trail, I guess, if you want to say that.

Robert Glazer: Yeah. Your value is probably something like you’re as good as your word, or something like that, right?

Brad Johnson: Well, I’ll tell you, like my closest friends that know not just as my friends that are just my friends with no business purposes tied to them. My real friends, right?

Robert Glazer: Yeah, yeah,

Brad Johnson: If you surveyed them, a lot of them will just be like, “Dude, I appreciate that you’re just authentic and real,” like if they were talking about me. And that feels good because that’s who I want to be. And so, it’s interesting.

Robert Glazer: And I’ll ask you. What does authenticity mean to you? Like, mean what you say, say what you mean. Is that your definition?

Brad Johnson: Yeah, that’s part of it. I think being comfortable in your own skin. If I look back, I think a lot of people, you’re figuring out who you are in high school, and it’s like you want to make everybody happy. You want to try to be the person that that person wants in their life, and then you just realize the older you get, like back to the armor or the masks people put on, it’s like it’s a lot more comfortable when I’m just me and I have a smaller group that I’m surrounded with that are cool with who I am and I don’t have to play charades or pretend to try to be somebody I’m not, to make people that it doesn’t really matter whether they’re happy with that or not. And that’s not like the pessimistic view. That’s just like the real-life view. Who’s going to show up to your funeral? Like, who are those sort of friends?

Robert Glazer: And one of my questions is, what would they say at your eulogy about you? What would you want them to say? It’s funny, as you were saying that, I’m like I’m hearing a core value of like be you, and then you said something like that that was close to that, right? So, there’s something in that for you that’s core value. It’s funny. I talked to another guy. He had just a core value of do things better or be better or like different, and he grew up in a super small one-stoplight town in Germany, or otherwise. And so, what happened for him was like nothing ever changed in that town. And he was an innovative and curious kid, and he realized like he had to leave. He had to get away.

And so, standing still for him is threatening because it just reminded him of this town where there was no progress, right? And he made that connection. This is why everyone has a different experience. And so, he moves a lot. And I said to him, I was like, “As soon as you plateau in a job, it is dangerous. You are someone who needs a new thing.” And I just watched it all connect for him, and it was kind of like fireworks in his head. And then he told me, “I’ve really thought about my career since then and what I need to do, and asking for new things and realizing like, again, like I love my town. I appreciated it, but I just felt like I was in a fish out of water. It wasn’t me.”

Brad Johnson: Yeah. I can relate to a bit of that. I feel like small town Kansas, you’ll love it because it’s roots. People care. If somebody loses a family member, there are 15 casseroles at your front doorstep a day later.

Robert Glazer: Yeah.

Brad Johnson: And also, when you go back, sometimes you feel like you’re going back in time because, like, this is the same main street that’s been here since 1950, you know? And so, it’s interesting. Well, I want to get to the book because there are some really core lessons in here. We’ve kind of danced around a lot of them, but the first one that really hit home with me, and you might not have said it exactly this way in the book, but kind of this theme of the greatest founders are grounded by an inner compass, which we’ve been all around. But kind of the way that I would say it is you’re not going to build a million-dollar, billion-dollar business by accident or a meaningful life by accident. You kind of need the compass to steer the way. So, once you’ve kind of identified those core values, now, how do you start to deploy them? Like, we can go to some lessons in the book or just lessons from Bob’s life.

Robert Glazer: So, if you figure this out as I did, you’d probably look across all aspects of your life, your family, your business. Otherwise, I need to double down on X and cut down Y. And that’s what I started doing. I shifted out of a nonprofit. I let go of some friends that I realized didn’t serve the direction I wanted to be in. I started, you know.

Brad Johnson: Was that hard?

Robert Glazer: It’s not hard because I got great advice on this, which is you don’t have to have these breakups. You just need to stop applying energy to relationships. So, you and your wife probably have these old friends that you haven’t anything to do with in years, and you get together once a year, and you go, “We should do this again.” And no one means it, right? And so, his answer was like, “Just stop putting the energy in.” They’d be like, “We’ll make plans.” Or don’t call like stop doing. You don’t have to be like, “We don’t like you and we’re breaking up.” You just have to stop putting energy towards the relationships that are…

Brad Johnson: So, it’s like a drift. It’s like let it drift. You don’t have to do a hardcore like, “You’re dead to me.”

Robert Glazer: I’ve never done that. No one knows. Eventually, it just sort of dies out. If you starve the plant of water or oxygen, it will kind of die out.

Brad Johnson: Okay. I was just curious because I agree. I mean, it’s like you are by osmosis kind of the average of the people you surround yourself with in every domain, health, spirituality, leveling up in business. So, I completely agree with your take on this.

Robert Glazer: But this is a great way to analyze those people and to think about that in the context of who do I want to spend around with. So, my example is always, look, if you’re about health and wellness or vitality, and maybe that’s because your dad died of a heart attack when he was 40, and so like health. For some people, that turns into live for the day. For some people, that turns into health. Again, everyone reacts to it differently. Or you had a health scare, and health is a priority, like you do not want to live in Newcastle, England, where everyone goes to the bar at two o’clock every day. You don’t want to live in a town where drinking is the primary form of socialization because two things are going to happen.

One, you’re going to go and feel crappy about yourself, or you’re going to opt out and not be doing the same. You want to live in Park City, where you walk outside at seven in the morning and you can go climb with Mike or hike with Mary, and at night people are playing pickleball, and like that’s what you want to be doing.

Brad Johnson: That makes sense. Yeah. You’re going to put yourself in the environment that’s going to create the outcomes you want.

Robert Glazer: Correct. We all do not have enough willpower to operate in an environment that, back to culture, that supports all of the opposite of what we want to be doing and think we’re strong enough to do that all day long. Why would you put your boat upstream all day long when you could turn it downstream, right?

Brad Johnson: Let’s talk to the other side of that, which is, because a lot of people have been successful. We were talking a bit about this before we dove in and hit record where they’ve actually had a successful outcome. So, they kind of just straight will powered, grinded their way, hustled their way to, oh, I’ve got a $10 million business, $100 million business. But now, there’s success without alignment and really, it’s failure in disguise is the way I would put it. But what’s the other side of that coin when you actually have monetary success and you’re building actually a business, but it’s not actually core to what you want?

Robert Glazer: Well, you’re picking a mountain to climb where it doesn’t align with your values because if you did something that aligned, you’d feel better. And the problem with strivers is you are one, I’m one, we know a lot, we know the story. What is the first thing that you do when you get to that elusive goal? What’s the first thing you do?

Brad Johnson: Well, a lot of people don’t even celebrate it, but there might be a mini celebration and then what’s next? Here’s the mountain that’s further out, that’s higher up.

Robert Glazer: Ding, ding, ding. Right. Actually, you couldn’t have said that better. Like, it was sort of a trick question. Yeah, there’s a quick celebration. You look down, you’re like, yeah, great view. What’s the next mountain? There’s like, not even the enjoyment that you thought you would have. So, people talk about the first mountain, the second mountain, the third mountain. I kind of think about it as climbs.

So, the first climb is the climb that you were kind of bullied on by your community, your parents, your town. You should be a doctor, you should be a lawyer. You don’t ever really enjoy it. As you get to the top, you enjoy it less and it’s just not your climb, right? The second climb that I think all of us have been on at some point in our own businesses, like, no, I picked this. I want to do this, I want to be an entrepreneur. I do this. And actually, I have some good days and bad days. Generally, I like it. But again, I think that if I just get to the top and I look down, it’s all going to be worth it. And you’re like, nah. Again, like, I don’t have this feeling of euphoria that I thought I would have.

The third climb, which I call the Vista climb, is just a little bit different. So, this climb, it starts at a little bit of elevation. It’s got a 5% grade. You could climb it for an hour or eight hours. The view is the seam. The view, it’s amazing the entire time. It’s really like you’re just happy to be climbing and you climb it. It’s not about where you get to. Now, some people, they can only do that because they’ve had some success on the second climb. But ironically, I think that there’s a lot of people, probably you’ve included, figured out, if they can figure out, it’s not that that climb doesn’t make money, it’s that that climb doesn’t have this sort of lump sum thing that says everything will be worth it at the viewpoint. So, whatever, each day, you feel like, hey, this is, if you looked at your values, you’d be like, I like this, I like walking, I like looking at this view, I like being in 70-degree weather. Like, it just, it all matches in what you’re doing every day.

Brad Johnson: Well, that goes back to that life integration, and we say it here, build a business you never want to retire from. And back to the second climb you just described, a lot of advisors, they did that second climb, sheer willpower, grinding it out, late nights, 60, 70, 80-hour weeks. And they’re like, if I can just get to this point, then I can sell it and be done with it. And then there’s like this inner turmoil going on, like they almost hate the job or the business they built. And that’s…

Robert Glazer: Because it’s all about a destination, which may not be right, yeah.

Brad Johnson: Yes. Like, I got to get here versus enjoy the journey and create the journey in a way that actually serves me and I see some cool views along the way. So, I think that’ll hit home with a lot of financial advisors out there listening or watching in because…

Robert Glazer: And you can augment your climb, right? Like, you can change this a little bit to be like, I never felt in my business and why we did all these things that were different and tried stuff in culture or otherwise because I was like, yes, I had goals and I had destination, but I was never willing to be miserable coming to work every day in service of that. I was like, I want to like coming to work. I want to like who I’m coming to work with. And yeah, it’s fun. It’s good to have a little bit of a goal. The problem is when you think the goal will give you all of the answers and you’re willing to be miserable in service of the goal, right? That’s when the goal becomes not helpful to you.

Brad Johnson: Well, you have a concept back to the book. I’m just, dude, I’m selling copies for you. I want you to know that, Bob, like, I’m just going to keep weaving it in here. Go buy the book.

Robert Glazier: Compass-Within.com.

Brad Johnson: There we go.

Robert Glazer: Might as well go all in if we’re going to go in.

Brad Johnson: Like, hey, don’t do this halfway, go all the way in. So, great founders, kind of this concept of burning the maps, and to me, I love playing off the analogy you just did. The first climb was somebody else’s, the second climb was kind of the hard way you did it. The third climb is actually figuring out the enjoyable way, but if that’s somebody else’s, you’re never going to fully enjoy it. So, what’s your concept around that? Maybe share a piece of the book that maybe brings that together.

Robert Glazer: I just think so many people are bullied into the arena. And particularly, I would say, ironically, kids who grow up in more affluent areas and neighborhoods where it’s like, oh, yeah, banker, lawyer, doctor, whatever, I was talking to a guy yesterday saying, “Did we talk to kids about sales?” Do we talk to him about sales? You can do sales in any industry. Sales is like, you can make a ton of money, often more than the CEO. And look, it’s not usually the kids going to Ivy League schools or otherwise, but these people, I know these guys, they have great lifestyles, as they get older.

So, we’re painted into this limited thing. Like, these are kind of the respectable things to do rather than, if I had my perfect experiment with each kid, I would be like, what do you like? What are you good at? How do we design school around you? How do we reinforce the things you want to do? I just think like we make kids study. Like, it’s very obvious. I understand why you need to do some baseline stuff, you need to learn how to push. And frankly, until you get a little bit uncomfortable with something, you don’t know if you like it, whether that’s math or sports or otherwise.

But it becomes very obvious at a certain point. Who’s an arts kid? Who’s a science kid? Who’s a, whatever? And like, let them focus on that. Let them get really good at that. I just think we bully people. Oh, you need to get a good job in one of these careers and otherwise. My daughter is actually thinking about going to law school. So, she talked to a bunch of people who are all lawyers and they got their rights and they were all like, don’t go to law school. She’s like, but Dad, I went on their website. I looked at the average profit for a partner and they’re making all this money. And I was like, “Chloe, what does that tell you?” Like…

Brad Johnson: Must have a lot of money and they’re unhappy.

Robert Glazer: Must not be everything, right. I think that’s a pretty good case study you just got there, that someone told you two and a half million dollars a year is telling you not to do what they’re doing.

Brad Johnson: It’s so funny. I literally have a cousin that now works at Triad, was considering going into law school. I did the exact same thing. We did a lunch with two former attorneys that worked with us and our general counsel consensus was don’t be a lawyer. So, there you go. Works on the East Coast and the Midwest apparently. Well, so going back to, let’s say there’s an advisor out there and they’re kind of on that second climb, and let’s say they’re realizing, man, I’m kind of operating in burnout mode here. I know you’ve got some frameworks that it’s like, here’s how to break out a burnout, which we call it red line, growing your business on the red line or the green line at Triad. So, I’d just be curious to hear your take on, how do you break that cycle once you realize you’re in it?

Robert Glazer: If you can identify your values, you will look down on that cheat sheet and you will see that when I am doing these, burnout, as you know very well, is not the amount of time that you put into something, right? There are things that, Brad, you do and I do, like, and just time stand still, and you’ll do it for free for five hours, you’ll stay up at 1:00 AM doing it because it fills some buckets. There’s other things that if you have to do it for a half hour, it’s like, feels like it’s stabbing you, right? It’s like…

Brad Johnson: Home improvement projects for me, Bob.

Robert Glazer: Really? I’m the opposite. Like, they are so therapeutic for me. You know what? Because it’s finding a better way. Like, just even improving anything, changing a light fixture, it works for me. So, perfect example, right? It’s not, spending five hours on me would make me feel great. You, you’d be wanting to throw the thing at someone. So, that I think is where a lot of burnout comes. Spending time doing stuff that’s not really meaningful or important to us. And if you looked at your time and all of the things we’re talking about on these values is predicated on people, not being where I was and saying, I know when I get electrocuted, I can kind of sense that, but I need to have them articulated and in front of me, like find a better way, self-reliance, health and vitality, respectful authenticity, right? Like, my values so that I can look down, I’m like, yeah, I should do business, do life, do this, don’t do this, and decision making, and you will be so much less burned out if you start doing the stuff that naturally, you’re just more interested in doing. And even that could be in a job. So, you’re an advisor, right? That doesn’t have to mean you have to quit being an advisor. You go, what part of– one of your dominant core values is build trusting relationships, right? You should be like, okay, so you’re the guy out having lunch, doing the meetings, building that, and you hire someone to do the back-office stuff because that stuff just exhausts you, right? It’s not what you want to do. And you say, I am going to be– I don’t care about titles. I am the chief relationship officer. This is what I love doing and I could do it all day long and think about it that way.

Brad Johnson: What if someone listening in realizes the current role they’re in, they literally have to just quit it? So, I’ve seen a few examples. It’s an advisor working at a firm and they realize I should be running my own firm. Another example would be, hey, I’m kind of in this captive advisor group where it’s like the big name over the door that’s not yours, and it’s time for me to break and go independent, but as they say, a weekly or biweekly paycheck is the most addictive drug in the world. What happens when it’s like the core values are that different where it’s like, I must leave where I’m at to go do that?

Robert Glazer: So, this is now my apology to anyone who bought this book for their employee and their employee listens to what I’m about to say. So, because I talk about in my other books that the worst thing from a company is not the people that quit and leave, but the people that quit and stay. And look, we’re talking about, we all want to vision the Jerry McGuire and grab the fish and drop the mic, but we have bills to pay and we have people that matter. And so, what I would do in these cases is I would quit and stay, I would say, this place does not meet my values. I am leaving. I’m going to take the paycheck and maybe I have a value to be the protector. And so, that would violate my value to my family of putting them in harm’s way by rushing out to do something without an income. So, I decide I can solve the congruence. I could say, yes, this place does not serve my values, and I am quitting mentally and I’m starting my work on finding a new place. I’m just not leaving today.

Brad Johnson: And on the flip side of that, one of the things that I took from you, I remember this at MasterMind Talks, you did a session and you actually– I forget exactly what you called it, but basically, you said, we’re committed to not firing anybody.

Robert Glazer: Oh, yeah, that was my eliminating two weeks’ notice, my open transition program.

Brad Johnson: Yeah, where you’re like, hey, if you’re not meant to be here, and by the way, one of the things I’ve learned as an entrepreneur, there are seasons in life and, no matter how good your culture is, you can’t control, especially the bigger your team gets, how those different seasons play out in those different dynamics. So, it’s best to just understand that and have a transition plan so that everybody can still look at each other in the grocery store and not hate each other, right? And so, I love how you thoughtfully have done that in your businesses. So, maybe now, it’s just a good, like maybe CliffsNotes version of that because it kind of applies to what we’re talking about here.

Robert Glazer: Yeah. We started kind of this notion of an open transition program that’s like, look, people are going to leave jobs. Why are we pretending that when people leave jobs, it’s more like the end of a relationship than like the end of a sports contract, that has all this emotional stuff? So, someone was asking me about it yesterday and they had seen my TED Talk and I was like, look, it’s kind of like no-fault car insurance. It’s kind of reached its end, whether the company starts to have that discussion with the employee houses. And we say, look, let’s transition. And it’s kind of like, again, it’s free agency. You’ll play out your contract until the end of the season and we know that you’re going to look for new teams and you’re probably not coming back. And in this case, we’ll even support you because we want you to be successful, but we also understand that this isn’t working here.

And it requires a lot of real conversations and emotional intelligence, but it’s such a better way than this whole two-week notice, doctor’s appointment thing, and people don’t realize that how something ends ruins the entire memory of it. So, your employee is like who you’ve mentored and brought up, and their parents told them, yeah, you just give Brad two weeks’ notice and you’re like, what the hell? I can’t find someone in two weeks. And oh, all those doctor’s appointments you said you had weren’t, and now, like– so, now, when someone calls for a reference in four years, you’re like, that’s kind of what you remember.

It’s funny, Dan Pink wrote about you, said, I know you do a bunch of events. Dan Pink said you should always have your best speaker at the beginning and end, like people remember the beginnings and they remember the ends and it kind of pollutes everything else that happens in between.

Brad Johnson: Primacy and recency, yep, that’s how it works. Okay, thanks for the download. That was one of the learnings I still remember. That conversation was not 10 years ago, but easily, five years ago.

Robert Glazer: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brad Johnson: And I remember just a mindset shift of just being a real human through that process versus this very, to your point, doctor’s office approach of this is kind of like everybody feels disgusting at the end of it. Maybe I have to write an analogy, but…

Robert Glazer: Yeah, like, why should we have to lie? Look, we all know people aren’t working at companies forever, so why are we all living this, like why? This doesn’t make a lot of sense.

 

Brad Johnson: Okay. Well, as I see the clock ticking here, I want to get to, you see the sign behind me, the name of this show is Do Business, Do Life. We’ve talked a couple times about some concepts that kind of bring that into light. In the book, you just talk about of, like, it has to come together. You tell it in story form, but how would you kind of weave it in your words? Our words are do business, do life, but this integration and why it matters so much at the end of the day.

Robert Glazer: Yeah. You are the same. I have a chart for one of my speeches. You don’t have this person who’s like a hulking physical specimen at home and then comes to work and they’re weak and tired and whatever, right? Like, we are the same across all dimensions on our life. When you properly identify a value, a core value, it is consistent across all of your life. And so, it’s integrated, right? You’re being you. And one of the things that– told you, one of my core values is respectful authenticity. That whole eliminate two weeks’ notice program, literally, comes out of that principle, right? It’s personal, like, can’t we have more respectful and honest conversations and get to a better outcome here? Literally, it’s a manifestation of that, so…

Brad Johnson: On that note, I failed to do this. Your company was one of the highest rated on Glassdoor, which can be a very toxic place for people that aren’t with your company anymore, one of the highest rated, and you were one of the highest rated CEOs on all of Glassdoor. How much do you think things like that influenced it? Was it literally written when people left? Did that impact? Did it add to more talent coming in because they’re like, wow, this is obviously a good place to work?

Robert Glazer: That’s what I thought. I mean, I thought it made it safer. I thought, I said, look, we’re not going to deny that you’re ever going to leave here. Here’s how people leave here. Here’s how we make it safer and have a discussion. If it turns out this was the wrong job, you don’t have to have a lot of doctor’s appointments and whatever, because you can come have a discussion with someone and we’ve made a promise that we’re not going to throw you out. So, I think that’s where it comes into play.

Brad Johnson: Did that message come directly from you? Or as you were running the kind of the top gun leadership, did that same message get deployed at lower levels then as the organization grows?

Robert Glazer: Look, part of that program and what I train on it is that, as you get bigger, your middle layer, it has to come from them. They’re the front line, right? I can’t talk to every employee every day and reiterate that. Like, those managers have to go and have those conversations and say, Brad, your work’s been off, and rather than chastising your work, like, what’s going on? Everything okay? And you’re like, no, the sched– this work from office thing isn’t really working for me. I’m like, okay, let’s talk about whether that’s fixable or not fixable.

Brad Johnson: Oh, just have a real conversation like a human. Interesting. How big was your organization when it had to go to the next layer down? And it didn’t come from your…

Robert Glazer: I think, 30 is the first point where it starts to change. And I think, like, 50, 60, 70 is where you’re– I used to show a graph of a flashlight and it would first go through a ball that would say 25 and it would cover the whole ball, and then it would go through 50 and then 75 and 100 and I’d be like, this is what your– you less and less see all of this other stuff in the organization. And hence, that’s why you have to have all these alignment things so that everyone’s kind of working on the same things.

Brad Johnson: So, kind of a general rule of thumb, it’s going to be different in different business models, was about 30, I need to start thinking it shouldn’t all be voiced from the founder. It should start to be voiced from…

Robert Glazer: Yeah, when you start to have the second layers, like you need to make sure those people are all singing from the same tune.

Brad Johnson: Yeah, okay. Well, let’s go to anything– here’s your chance. Like, if you’ve got anything specific to the book, I know, Patrick Lencioni not only did he endorse it, I think he helped title it, if I can say that publicly.

Robert Glazer: Yes, he is like, I’m a very good titler. I was like, tell me which one you like best, though, yeah.

Brad Johnson: So, one of his core values in life, I’m good at titling things. So, cool. So, I mean he is the, I’d call him like he’s on the Mount Rushmore of writing business books that are parables. So, that’s a pretty awesome endorsement. But what other pieces of the story have hit home on other podcasts or from other people that have read it that you’re like, hey, here’s like a really cool section that I’ll just tease and then everybody can go buy the book and read it for themselves.

Robert Glazer: Yeah. Look, you can buy the book. One of the things I talk about and what people, what they don’t want to do all of the work is they’re these six questions. And you watch Jamie answer these six questions. These six questions start to really show the themes of your core values and in the course and everything. By the way, if you buy the book through launch week, the course is free and it’s five times more money than the book. So, it’s a good deal. I’ve been selling it for years. And so, they’re from, what are the things that really bother you, from what do you want to be said at your eulogy?

So, if you go to RobertGlazer.com/six, I just have the questions there and I have you kind of walking through it. And I’ve seen people post on LinkedIn their answers, and they sit down with a coffee and they answer it and they’re like, huh? I didn’t expect, like, respect to show up in all of my answers. I guess that’s more important to me. So, if you’re not bought in on, I want to go figure out what my core values are. A) I’ve done a horrible job of making that point on this podcast, but I’m like, just try those six questions and see if they spark anything for you.

Brad Johnson: So, that’s kind of the jumping off point if you want to just start the conversation and get the wheels turning.

Robert Glazer: Exactly. If you took the course, that would be the first thing you’d be kind of asked to do too, so…

Brad Johnson: We will throw that in the show notes, and I think that’s super valuable. So, I appreciate you sharing that. Well, what haven’t we gotten into yet? Let’s talk a little life. I know you had some rough travel lately that became a Friday Forward. So, it’ll be out by the time this episode drops. But how’s life for the Glazer family? What’s new and fun?

Robert Glazer: Life’s good. We’ve got two in college at this point, one is a junior in high school. So, household dynamics are different. I tell you, when your last kid drives, gets their license, right before they get their license, you’re being asked for pickups at 11 o’clock and it’s constant, whatever, and then suddenly, you are not needed anymore. So, it’s like, hey, here’s where I’m going to be. I’m good. So, that’s a new dynamic. My wife and I just got back from our 25th anniversary trip, so it’s good. We’re in full fall mode over here in the Glazer household.

Brad Johnson: And still, home base is right around Boston, correct?

Robert Glazer: Yeah, outside of Boston. We try to spend a lot of time in Utah. That’s kind of our happy place, and hope to be out there more, so…

Brad Johnson: So, is this like ski season, like…

Robert Glazer: Yeah, we started going there and ski. And then, all these towns, these mountain west towns, they all have a slogan like, come for the winter, stay for the summer. You go back in the summer and you’re like, wow, this is just as good. Like, it’s beautiful. Everyone’s, like I said, biking, hiking, running around. It’s just a super active community.

Brad Johnson: Love it. Well, it’s cool that you’ve entered a season of life, obviously, built some cool businesses here. I know you’re still involved from like a chairman board member standpoint, but you actually created the freedom. What we talk about at Triad, it’s like, it starts, phase one is kind of, we call it the advisor in charge, where everything comes through you. You’re kind of the constraint. Two is business owner.

Robert Glazer: Cook and bottle washer, yeah.

Brad Johnson: Three CEO, and fourth is board members. So, you’ve reached that to where you can be involved in the business still and get some of the benefits as an owner, but kind of have some freedom along the way too. So, maybe if you were to say some learnings along the way because, was it just a few years back the transaction happened?

Robert Glazer: Yeah.

Brad Johnson: What are some things for advisors that are– because there’s a lot of mergers and acquisitions in finance, what are some learnings, good and bad, from that for you?

Robert Glazer: So, I had talked to a lot of people. I had a lot of conversations. I kind of knew what was coming. I think two things, one, when you get off the main ship, you got to have a lifeboat, right? And I think my writing became that. So, I knew I would have that to jump into. And also, like, you got to cut the cord pretty quickly. So, if you’re passing along the– I had to decide at some point, was a board member an exec team member, right? And a board member doesn’t join executive means and doesn’t weigh in on daily operation stuff. And I was a big personality and a big CEO for years and I was passing it along to my number two. And if I’m in that room and people are looking to me, we’re going to have a problem.

So, I pulled out of those rooms, I pulled out of the offsites. I gave him the space that I needed and I think, like, that’s hard for people, but you can’t be half pregnant on that stuff. So, know that you’re going to need something to fill that gap and know that at some point, if you want that person to be successful, you can’t be half in. A lot of the management team members will talk to me once a month. They want my opinion on something we want to riff. I can tell them it’s stupid, I can tell whatever, and they can decide what to do with that. That’s very different than being in the management team meeting and exerting my opinion and for people that I don’t manage or don’t control. So, yeah, plan ahead, plan what you’re going to do, and plan that. That’s going to be a loss in your identity. And if you don’t have something to fill it, you’re going to fill it.

Brad Johnson: Love that advice. How long did your number two in charge kind of mentor under you before it was, hey, Bob’s out of the room?

Robert Glazer: I mean, he kind of mentored for 10 years. The end game was like a two-year transition process. And in fact, we knew we were doing it. Not everyone knew that we were doing it. So, what happened was there was a lot of stuff that we changed behind the scenes. Like, when we hired new people, they reported to him, not me. He started to take over meetings. In fact, when we announced the transition, we kind of said to everyone, it was a little like Keyser Soze in The Usual Suspects, like, if you guys look, we’ve already actually, they’re like, what’s going to change? I’m like, you kind of missed it over the last year. We switched everything to him already. He’s leading the meeting. The marketing person reports to him now. The salesperson reports to him. So, the way that people handle, no one likes change. They like progress. They don’t like change. So, if you’re just kind of bring it in on him a little bit at a time, then it becomes normal to them.

Brad Johnson: A good movie reference, by the way. That’s a great one.

Robert Glazer: Yeah, whenever I can get you go…

Brad Johnson: That last scene, that still is the most Kevin Spacey.

Robert Glazer: That was the most chill I ever had go down. I remember I showed it to my son a couple years ago and he couldn’t sleep. He was so, like his brain was running. You just start replaying. I mean, until everyone started copying that format, that was the best movie ending I had ever seen. You just like your jaw drops.

Brad Johnson: There’s a handful of movies the older you get where you look back and you’re like, dang, they sure did throw the curve ball at the end. That’s definitely a top five of all time. That and Sixth Sense, I’ll put the Sixth Sense up there too.

Robert Glazer: Similar ending too, yeah. You get the chill goes up your spine. So, if you don’t buy the book, watch the movie. It’s the least we can do.

Brad Johnson: There we go. Well, my man, awesome as always. Always love our time together. Thanks for diving in, sharing with the audience. Congrats on the new book. Excited for you. We’re going to do our best to support it here at Triad, so we’ll talk about that after we’re done recording here, but always putting out good stuff in the world, Bob. Appreciate everything you do.

Robert Glazer: Thank you and thanks for your ongoing support over the years.

Brad Johnson: All right, my man. Till next time.