Brad Johnson: Welcome back to another episode of Do Business. Do Life. Have Patric Yumul here with us today. Welcome to the show, Patric.
Patric Yumul: Thank you very much. It’s an honor to be joining you. Thank you for inviting me.
Brad Johnson: Well, there’s a common theme in life that great humans have continued to connect me with other great humans. And I know we have a mutual friend in Jason Khalipa who made this happen. So, I never did ask. How did you and Jason originally get connected?
Patric Yumul: So, it’s actually a funny story. But early on, when I started getting into fitness and getting into CrossFit, I would go up to CrossFit.com and watch all the videos. And of course, Jason Khalipa and Kelly Starrett, who were kind of like the superstars of the CrossFit world at this time had a ton of content. And so, I’d just watched a bunch of stuff. And kind of coincidentally, Jason had one of our greatest guests within our restaurant group, which was Mina Group at the time. He, basically, came to the restaurants multiple times a week. Everybody loved him. He was a gentleman by the name of Jeff Fini. Well, I didn’t know, but Jason had married his daughter.
And so, we were connected that way but we also got connected through the CrossFit world through a number of different people that I trained with. And so, our paths collided and it was kind of serendipitous.
Brad Johnson: That’s cool. I didn’t know that. So, basically, he was a customer but you are also CrossFit on the other side so there was just this… He was living in your world and you were living in his at the same time.
Patric Yumul: Exactly. Yes.
Brad Johnson: Very cool. So, it’s interesting. I got into CrossFit myself and a former coworker. It was like the 2010s, 2011s. And we both went and got level one certified. So, how deep down the CrossFit rabbit hole did you go? Were you like competing? Were you…?
Patric Yumul: Yeah. I did do a couple of competitions. And like we would do, you know, when they came out with like the CrossFit I think sectionals or whatever, we would, you know.
Brad Johnson: Open workouts?
Patric Yumul: Yeah. Open workouts.
Brad Johnson: There you go.
Patric Yumul: Yeah, I would do those. At the time, I was working out at San Francisco CrossFit and so I would participate in those. I got level one certified as well, and my wife ended up actually being a coach at San Francisco CrossFit.
Brad Johnson: Cool.
Patric Yumul: I had a full-time job at running the Mina Group. So, I didn’t necessarily go any type of coaching direction, but I was in the world for quite a while. And then as I got older and the body started taking some bumps and bruises, I scaled back some of the higher-intensity workouts. And at the same time, Jason kind of started coming out with his NCFIT platform and I was following along and doing workouts with that. And that kind of weaned me off of the prospect of box life and doing workouts at home and stuff like that, so.
Brad Johnson: Cool. Well, one of the things that I found to be true is you can crush it in business, but if you don’t take care of your health, none of it matters. You make all the money in the world, but if you can’t be around to enjoy it, then that’s a pretty lousy deal. So, I found with most top performers, they tend to focus on health as a big part of their life as well. Have you found that to be true with the top performers you’ve surrounded yourself with?
Patric Yumul: Absolutely. I’m a big believer in if you don’t take care of yourself, it’s almost impossible to take care of others. And so, I myself have a recipe for that every day, whether it’s study, meditation, working out. And that kind of is the way I start my day and kind of the foundation that I build my day on. And it allows me then to kind of line up all the chakras, get rid of the voices, and then I took my day head-on with full passion and full intensity. But because, one, I’m able to I think cognitively function from all that practice, I’m also physically able to function. Whether it’s spending time with my kids and running around and playing flag football with my 12-year-old or playing soccer with my girls, I’m able to keep up. I’m not sore afterwards. I’m able to really live with them in their time and in their space.
And so, again, going back to what you initially asked, I think anybody that’s trying to be successful in one area of their life is certainly trying to be successful in all areas of their life. And health, wellness, fitness, mental health are big components of that.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. Couldn’t agree more. Well, let’s get into like your day job, which is a pretty cool one. So, I’m going to kind of set the stage and then maybe we just kind of follow the journey because I know you started out in the restaurant, the hospitality business, at a very young age, at essentially the bottom, which is what, a busboy I think was maybe your first job.
Patric Yumul: That’s right. Yes.
Brad Johnson: It’s 16? Or how old were you at the time?
Patric Yumul: I was 16 years old.
Brad Johnson: 16. And this was in Vegas, right?
Patric Yumul: Yes. I started off as kind of a busboy delivery boy in Vegas in this little area called the Lakes. And just kind of trying to pay for my gas and insurance and have a little bit of money to take my girlfriend out to dinner. And then when I graduated high school, I moved to San Diego. And the intention was I was going to get residency in California, then transfer to UCSD and ultimately, pursue a sports medicine career, becoming a doctor, but ultimately didn’t line up with what I wanted to do. And so, I moved back to Vegas, went to UNLV and while I was going to UNLV, I was a busboy at a restaurant called — it was called Lombardi’s at the time. They changed their name to Bertolini’s. And that’s where I really initially got bit with the restaurant bug.
Brad Johnson: Lombardi’s like Vince Lombardi, like football theme?
Patric Yumul: It wasn’t a football theme. It was Italian. It was an Italian restaurant but spelled the same.
Brad Johnson: And was this like a higher-end sort of restaurant?
Patric Yumul: No. I mean, I thought it was at the time, but it certainly wasn’t. It was a great family kind of friendly restaurant. It was in the Forum Shops at Caesars. We’ve been shooting volume. But what was great, I grew up playing sports my whole life. And there’s not a whole lot of opportunities for once you get past high school and if you’re not playing in collegiate sports for you to get around and have that type of camaraderie and that’s instantly what I felt. It was like all the busboys banded together and it was us against the dirty plates and how big of a tray could we carry? And there was all these kind of internal competitions that I really loved and team building that I loved.
And I got very fortunate and blessed where there was a head busboy at the time and he had left to go open another restaurant. And so, they made me the head busser at 19 years old. And it was a tremendous amount of responsibility that was really, for me, I was very fortunate to be presented with because I had to schedule the bussers, I had to create floor plans, write the training plans. And that’s then what kind of made me fall in love with the organizational side of the business. And it also taught me because I was in that position, then all my friends started reaching out and I got them busboy jobs because we made a pretty good living at 18, 19 years old. But then it taught me how to kind of separate this was my friends and people that I grew up with and having to be responsible for leading them within their department. And so, it was a great kind of entree into organizational leadership and into the restaurant life and into the restaurant world.
Brad Johnson: Okay. So, I’m going to kind of give a couple of highlights, and then I want to dive in because you went from that. And then before it was all said and done, you team up with Chef Michael Mina, who very well-known chef, and you start running… Were you straight out of the gates running the Mina Group with them in partnership, or did you grow into the kind of the side by side where he was the chef and you were the op side? How did that come to be?
Patric Yumul: So, I first started working with Michael when I was 26. And he was the chef of a company called Aqua, and he was certainly the darling of San Francisco. The restaurant was the number one restaurant in the city and he was getting all the attention and all the praise and all the awards. And he decided, you know, it was a really bold decision but he decided to leave Aqua and started his own company called Mina Group and he brought myself and a few other key individuals along. And so, it was a very small tight-knit group of about five of us that started Mina Group. And I really started off in a role as opening general manager and helping on the development plans and grew from that position to vice president of operations then to become president of the company probably about eight years later.
Brad Johnson: And so, at 20, so okay, we’re missing a step. Just out of curiosity, how did you make the leap from Lombardi’s, which was in Vegas, to a very, I’m assuming, very high-end restaurant? Was it a Michelin-starred restaurant?
Patric Yumul: Eventually, yeah, multiple Michelin-star restaurants.
Brad Johnson: So, how did you make this jump from, like you said, it wasn’t like a Michelin-starred restaurant to San Francisco and obviously a very high-end restaurant?
Patric Yumul: Yeah. So, when I was working at Lombardi’s, Bertolini’s as a busser, like I said, I got a lot of responsibility at a very early age and I just kind of leaned into it. And then as I became old enough to be a server, which in Las Vegas is 21, I started getting into food and wine and I really fell in love with the romance of restaurants and hospitality. And I was invited by the corporate team to help open restaurants. And so, I would travel around to Irvine and Indianapolis and different parts of the country and open these restaurants. And then I got offered a manager position at 22 and I moved to Washington, D.C.
And I knew that being very young that I had to find a way for people to want to follow me and not just because of title, but because I had something to give them. So, I really dove deep into becoming a teacher and became an expert in food, an expert in wine, an expert in hospitality. And that was kind of the platform that I used to get people to buy into me. And because I did that, one, I started becoming successful at the restaurant that I was a manager at but I started building a reputation throughout the company as being kind of this aficionado or this expert in all things food, spirits, wine. And I started growing through the company that way.
And then I became again, at a very early age, I became an assistant general manager. And then I became… Funny story is they had a restaurant in Southern California and it was troubled and it wasn’t doing well. And they said that, “Why don’t you go there and operate it as a general manager?” I was 24, 25 at the time. “You could try a lot of things. You don’t have to necessarily follow all the corporate rules, so to speak, but it will be a good test run for you. And we know we can trust you. You’ve proven yourself to us. And you’ll show real estate people in and allow them to kind of show the restaurant around because quite honestly, we’re trying to get rid of it and either sublet it or sell it or whatnot.”
And so, I did that. And within a year’s time, I had turned the restaurant around. And it was losing $400,000 a year. I turned it around so it was making about $600,000 a year. They decided not to get rid of the restaurant. They decided to keep it. And right around that time, that’s when I met Michael. And I got introduced to Chef Mina and started working with him. And he was going to open a restaurant in Hawaii in the island of Maui. And so, I actually moved there for like six months to help get that restaurant ready. Ultimately, didn’t happen. I moved back. I moved to San Francisco, and then we opened Aqua at the St. Regis in Monarch Beach in Dana Point, California, together. And we just instantly… I was young. He was young, too. He was a very young entrepreneur restaurateur at about 31, 32. I was 26.
But the level of commitment, the level of passion, the level of dedication, and the level of relentlessness that we both possessed made us really, one, kind of simpatico but I had a very kind of detailed eye as it pertained to development of leaders and development of team and development of kind of the culture. And he was certainly the rhythm keeper of the culture. And so, that really had us fit in nicely together. And we just kind of grew up together. We grew up in our careers and spent, you know, we’re still connected but we spent about 22 years building Mina Group together brick by brick. And a lot of that has to do with, obviously, the people that we surrounded ourselves with. But it all happened I like to think very romantically and very organically.
Brad Johnson: Let’s go back to that failing restaurant. And that was where? That was in California?
Patric Yumul: It was in Irvine, California.
Brad Johnson: And this, you made the jump from Washington to California. That’s what took you down there?
Patric Yumul: I went from Washington back to Vegas. And I was in Vegas for about a year and then I went to Irvine.
Brad Johnson: And this was that restaurant group that just had multiple…
Patric Yumul: Yes.
Brad Johnson: So, you show up. This restaurant’s losing 400K a year. If you had to narrow it down and say these are the 2 or 3 things that we focused on to flip it to where we were making 600K a year later, what were those?
Patric Yumul: It’s not rocket science. It was pretty, to me, it seemed like a lot of low-hanging fruit, right? There was things. One, it was getting buy-in and training the staff and making them become passionate about the product, making them passionate about… I’m a big believer that restaurant teams are like muscles. And we’re talking about fitness earlier and you know whether you’re a CrossFit or marathoner you can’t get to like a two-minute Fran and then all of a sudden you’re always going to be able to do that or you can’t get to a six-minute mile. And because you put in all this time and energy training for that six-minute mile, now you can always do that. No. You have to continue to train that muscle or train your respiratory system and train your conditioning. It’s the same in a restaurant. You have to continue to train your people.
And the moment you stop training them and teaching them and guiding them and developing them is the moment that atrophy will set in. And that’s what had happened at the restaurant. It was just atrophy. There was complacency and I gave them hope. And I brought in hope and vision and started teaching them. And they became just, one, evangelists for the product and for the brand but really, they were passionate about what they were doing. So, it started with the team and getting them engaged and getting them just really dialed in about hospitality, about service, about the way we’re caretaking and treating people, and the way that they would talk about the product.
And when you make people excited about things, they’re looking forward to coming to work. They’re looking forward to working together. And ultimately, they’re going to be much more powerful than you are on your own. So, once we got that foundation built, then it was just nudging and judging along things, whether it’s Kate putting string lights on the patio to make the patio more inviting and more engaging or changing. But the thing is because I also got the license and permission from the corporate team to not have to ask the corporate office every time I did things, I was able to think very entrepreneurially.
And so, I didn’t follow the corporate wine program. I didn’t follow the corporate cocktail program. I did things that I thought were appropriate for the market and for the community. And because of that, the community responded. And we were able to start building a lot of momentum, one, with revenue but, two, with reputation. And that ultimately led to us being able to turn the ship in a different direction.
Brad Johnson: How many? And this has been a while ago. So, if you don’t remember off the top of your head. When you got there, the team that existed and as you started to pour in, it’s the old saying like the right people on the right seats on the bus. How many people did have to exit the bus for you to turn that thing around? Was there some of that or were you able to just get the culture right with the same people that were there?
Patric Yumul: It was maybe 10%. They were there the whole time. It was just about lighting that fire within them. And that’s one of the things that I love most about what I do is to be, again, everybody has something in them that’s just dying to come out. And if I can help kind of unpeel those layers and then add a little gasoline to that fire, that’s what gets me most excited about my position and my job. And I have had the pleasure and opportunity to be able to do that multiple times with different teams and different people. And it’s just really about exposing them to what excites them and gets them fired up. But, yeah, 10% really, maybe we lost 10% of the people, but the majority of the team was the team that was there.
Brad Johnson: Wild. Well, so as I was prepping for this conversation, first off, I have to ask you. I’m assuming at this point doing what you do, you’ve seen the TV show, The Bear?
Patric Yumul: Yes.
Brad Johnson: How much of that is Hollywood and how much of that is reality?
Patric Yumul: You know, I think that they did an amazing job of pulling in a lot of industry resources to help guide the writers for the content of that show. I think they’re telling a story that’s not unique. It’s a story that exists in restaurants all across the world, really. And I mean, it’s pretty spot on. I mean, from the way that they label containers that go in the walk-in to the internal conflicts that the chef’s having on the show or the different dynamics between the characters in the kitchen or the front of the house, I mean, it’s pretty accurate.
Brad Johnson: The intensity of that show is wild. I love great food but I’ve never been in that environment. I mean, I bartended in college. That’s the closest I’ve been, right? And that’s, obviously, they’re replicating like a Michelin-starred restaurant in that show for those that haven’t seen it. And there are some absolutely intense scenes between front of house, the waitstaff, and back of house, I believe, which would be the kitchen, right? Is that reality? Have you seen it? I mean, it’s almost like coming to blows like fistfights. Have you seen that level of conflict?
Patric Yumul: Absolutely.
Brad Johnson: Wow.
Patric Yumul: I mean, I think in today’s era, it’s not as if, I mean, there still are flare-ups and it’s still as intense. It’s not as intense as it used to be, let’s say, in the late 90s, early 2000s or even in the 80s. But, yeah, I mean, there’s definitely, I think there’s a number of different things of why that conflict exists. And it’s probably I think we were talking about this earlier, but the kitchen, one, that’s the engine, right? And those are the people that make it happen. And they tend to have more kind of like a brawler mentality where we’re tough, we’re rough, we’re in the fire, we’re putting out the food.
And whether it’s a Michelin-star restaurant or a burger in a basket style restaurant, those guys and girls are certainly working their butts off in not ideal conditions. I mean, it’s hot back there. And they kind of love that raw toughness. And on the flip side of that, the front of the house are working in a much different environment, right? It’s a little bit more, you know, it’s not tranquil but they’re not next to the fires and they’re not chopping and there’s not sharp objects flying at them. And so, they tend to get viewed more as kind of like the suits, right? And it’s like there’s that show, Entourage, where there was the director and he always had a problem with the suits and it was always like the creatives versus the suits.
And it’s kind of like that dynamic in a restaurant where the front, the servers, and the bartenders have more of a perceived posher lifestyle and job than what’s happening in the back. And that’s where the conflict kind of comes in. And so, they portray it pretty well.
Brad Johnson: Well, that’s cool to hear. And it’s actually pretty wild because I want to go back for a second and then I want to apply this to financial services because there’s a lot of parallels here. But you said it used to be maybe a lot more intense or hardcore in the 80s and 90s. Was there a reason it was more intense back then versus now?
Patric Yumul: Well, I think culture has changed. I think laws have changed. HR didn’t have as much of a presence. There wasn’t a lot of the awareness that we have nowadays in terms of harassment or just being mindful of other people’s feelings. And so, I think a lot of that dynamic has shifted. And I think that the industry is certainly trying to shift towards that and be more cognizant and conscientious of trying to create an environment that is less hostile and more uplifting.
Brad Johnson: That makes sense. That makes sense. Okay. So, in financial services, the parallel I would make is there’s the financial advisor that’s kind of the front of house because they’re actually suits, oftentimes suit and tie. They’re interacting with clients. And back of house would be the equivalent of kind of the operation side that’s pushing the paperwork through the new business, putting out fires at the different, whether it’s on the security side with different clearinghouses or custodians or insurance companies. So, there’s a lot of that kind of almost brawler like you’re talking about versus kind of the buttoned-up client-facing side, which there’s also a lot of that conflict. There can be.
So, when you’re trying to get two very separate kind of worlds to play nice together and actually be a cohesive team, are there some things that you’ve worked through in the restaurant business that you think could apply to financial services?
Patric Yumul: I mean, I certainly think that starting off, well, let’s call it day one. Whether it’s you’re building a team, the first time the team comes together, or you’re building a business or a restaurant, I think it’s important that, one, is to establish that we all came here for a certain reason, right? And when people come on job interviews and they apply, they’ve got something in their head that’s making them do that, right, whether it’s a better life, they want to learn more, or they want to be part of something special, they want to enhance a skill, they want to make more money. But they all came to that job interview and accepted that job and came to day one with these aspirations, with these hopes and these dreams in their head.
And so, it’s important to kind of crystallize that for everybody and understand, one, that’s the first common thing that we have together. Then from that, the second kind of common denominator is, okay, well, what you’re hoping to get out of this, that doesn’t just manifest by itself. Hoping and praying isn’t a strategy. You can’t just say, “Okay. This is what I want.” There’s a lot of details and a lot of work that go into making that happen. And so, for us in the restaurant, what we’ll do is we’ll do an exercise where we call it the dream restaurant on day one, where we’ve got cooks, dishwashers, bartenders, hosts, managers all sitting together in a group and all contributing to what they think a dream restaurant, this dream restaurant is.
It could be we want to earn a Michelin star. It could be we want to do a community event every month that gives back to the community. It could be where we want to have a softball team. It could be a number of different things, we want this type of praise, we want to have this much in revenue, we want to do $100,000 a night, whatever it is. And so, what we will do is we’ll take all of those ideas, all those goals, and we’ll posterize them and we’ll actually put it up in the back hallway for everybody to see that this is collectively as a group what we said is our dream restaurant. But then it’s important that everybody understands that they all play a role in that, right? We can’t just posterize it.
We all have to be custodians in that legacy and that vision that we want to build. And some people have different roles and responsibilities in producing that. But at the end of the day, if each and every single person doesn’t come to work understanding what their role and responsibility is and working there with their full heart and their full head to achieve that, then they’re doing the team a disservice, but they’re also doing themselves a disservice because if they can’t give 100% of themselves in the eight hours that they’re there, the nine hours that they’re there, then it’s better for them to find something else that they can give 100% of themselves in.
And so, I’ll say, it’s pretty intense and it’s beautiful but it’s also sobering at the same time because we’re very honest with people that whether it’s this or it’s something else if they’re not showing up for themselves, it’s never going to show up for them. And we have that real conversation with people from day one to let them know that these restaurants are not easy places to work at and there’s a lot of intensity and there’s a lot that’s going to be required of them. But that’s what’s necessary in order to get to the dream. And that’s why they all came here. They all came here because they want to be part of the dream, but they all have to do their job and they all have to contribute to the dream in order for that to happen.
Brad Johnson: I mean, it’s crazy. Some of these business principles I think we overthink them but that’s just creating a vision for your business, right, and then living into that vision and using that as the filter for the talent that you bring in and making sure there’s alignment there. So, all that makes a lot of sense to me. So, Patric, one of the things that I think is really cool and I’d love to get your take on, so I look back a few years ago and there was this I’ll call it like this Navy SEAL movement in like media and books. It was like Lone Survivor, Marcus Luttrell then Jocko puts out the book, Extreme Ownership.
And then I feel like here’s this career track that a very few high-performing individuals go on, and they’re taking those lessons that work there, now applying them to like real world and business. And I feel like this is the season of the restauranteurs doing the same. We’ve got Will Guidara who I was fortunate enough to have him on the show, Unreasonable Hospitality, and he’s taking the concept of service versus hospitality and here’s how it worked in the restaurant business and here’s how it applies to all of business. What’s your take?
Because I feel like there’s like a really cool movement going on where some of these upper echelon restaurants of which you’ve grown up in were like, “Okay, cool. That works there but it also works — you can apply that to financial services if you’re a financial advisor.” So, is it just me or do you feel like there’s like a movement going on here a little bit?
Patric Yumul: Yeah. I think and my thesis is that I think that people expect more out of everything nowadays. And my thesis happens a lot with kind of the evolution of the smartphone and what Uber, DoorDash, Amazon like you can get anything with a flick of a wrist, with your scrolling. And people, they expect recognition, they expect a certain level of service, and those expectations have certainly grown tremendously over the past I want to say five, seven, ten years. And I think the reason why hospitality professionals like Will is amazing and there’s certainly another, there’s a handful out there, but we’ve always had this kind of approach and mentality about service and about hospitality, where we didn’t view it as kind of this subservient role but we view it more as an honor.
If you think about it, when you’re going out to a restaurant with your wife or one of your best friends is coming to town and you get to go out to your favorite steakhouse or whatever it is, that’s always on your calendar. It’s always a ten out of ten for your day when you get to do that, right? Sometimes waking up, working out, the commute to work, those sometimes might be a ten, they might be a two, they might be a four. But always when you get to go celebrate with friends and family or you’re going to go have a date night with the wife, it’s always a ten out of ten for your week or your day. And we get to live in the ten out of ten moments of people’s lives and we get to celebrate. We’re living in the highlight rules.
And to me, that’s extremely honoring. It’s very romantic. And also, we have a great responsibility to be able to deliver to that. And so, I think we have that view, that service, and pleasing people isn’t something that is butler-ish and demeaning. It’s something that’s beautiful and romantic and life-giving. And I think what Will’s been doing is breathing that into businesses and helping them one up or 10X their initial core offering by layering in a more personable, a more thoughtful experience to the whole whether it’s the sales funnel or to the product experience.
Brad Johnson: So, let’s go to another parallel that I’ve seen between finance and the restaurant business. And that’s truthfully, you all are living in a very commoditized business. And what I mean by that is that the last number, it was like 300,000 plus financial advisors in the country. And differentiating in that sea of sameness is really tough. The restaurant business might be even tougher to differentiate in. So, when it comes to differentiating your product, how much of it like when you view through the lens is kind of that hospitality, like how you make people feel when they walk in the door, the vibe, versus the actual quality of the product? Obviously, with chefs like Michael Mina, that’s a very high caliber of product.
So, what’s that balance you see, but the feel, the vibe, the personnel, and then the actual quality of the product, and how do you start to differentiate?
Patric Yumul: Well, I mean, the product and execution certainly have to be there, right? You can have a financial advisor that’s the best guy on the planet that takes you to different events or games and always is very personable. But if they’re not performing and producing good financial results for you, if you’re not making, if you’re not performing better than the market, you’re going to go somewhere else. And same in a restaurant. The product and execution have to be there. But our bet and our premise is if we make people feel better here than anywhere else, then they’re going to keep coming back and we’re going to keep them for life.
And that’s our goal and that’s kind of the filter that we look at everything is. And it’s not just about the intangible. It’s about the tangible as well, right? If you serve somebody cold soup, are they going to feel important? Are they going to feel better here? No. If you give somebody a dirty wineglass, are they going to feel important or not important? If they go to a bathroom and it’s dirty, are they going to feel important? So, we’re always trying to make people feel more important and more special in our establishments than anywhere else. And it starts with there’s a discipline for how things are done from product to execution to the delivery of service all the way to the non-tangible elements of connection and hospitality and the spirit of service and the spirit of grace and graciousness that we give people.
Brad Johnson: So, what I hear you say is if you are going to over-index on one of those two, it would be kind of the hospitality, the feel versus necessarily the product, like if you had to choose one. Is that fair or am I off?
Patric Yumul: Well, I mean, if you have to choose one, I think that that’s probably always going… You’re always going to choose where you feel better 99% of the time. If you go to a place and you know you’re always going to get a table and they’re always going to recognize you and they’re always going to pamper you and make you feel like the most important person in the world and maybe the steak’s not as good as the place down the street, but you don’t know if you can get a table there, they don’t know you, they don’t know what your drink is, and you feel like just another customer, you’re always going to pick that one. You’re always going to pick the one that makes you feel special. And so, yeah, if I was going to over-index in anything, it’s the personalization of hospitality and service over just treating people like a commodity.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. It reminds me of the old TV show, Cheers, where everybody knows your name, right? It’s like they’re just serving them a beer. But at the end of the day, they know your name and here’s your spot and here’s what we’re serving you as soon as you sit down. So, that makes a lot of sense. So, going back to The Bear, because I’m just fascinated by that show. And you said something cold soup. Like, you don’t feel special if your soup shows up cold. How important is it? And as you climb the caliber of restaurant and the price per meal, like in your high-end restaurants, what’s an average meal run for somebody that sits down?
Patric Yumul: Per person, typically, our restaurants are anywhere from $80 to $150 per person, depending on the concept. Our two Michelin-star restaurant, Michael Mina, was usually around $250 a person but that was 2011-2012. So, that in today’s dollars would probably be more closer to $350, $400 per person. But we’re typically into that $80 to $150 ballpark.
Brad Johnson: Well, let’s stick with the $250 to $350 because if I look at it, once again, parallel in the financial services space, most want to work with higher net worth. So, as the net worth climbs, the expectations climb, the level of service climbs, the level of expertise climbs. So, back to the cold soup question. You’re sitting down at a two-star Michelin restaurant. Back of house operations, well, who’s the person that’s sitting there like with the tickets like literally directing? What’s that role called in a restaurant?
Patric Yumul: So, it’s called an expediter. And usually, that’s either typically the chef or the right hand of the chef working together at the pass. The pass is where all the plates pass through the chef’s hands. So, depending on the style of restaurant and the style of kitchen, a chef will either be standing at the pass or behind the pass and having the plates flow through either as the expediter or as the person that’s putting finishing touches.
Brad Johnson: And is that role like here’s my best version, my best definition of that role from what I’m watching, it’s like quality control. It’s like literally this will not go out if it’s not up to our standards. I mean, obviously they’re checking it to make sure it’s the right order and all of that and directing traffic. But is that kind of the purpose of that role overall?
Patric Yumul: It’s quality control, but it’s also that it’s really the timing of what’s happening in the kitchen and kind of the motor of the kitchen because you’re the conductor and you’re seeing every instrument and how it’s being played. You’re watching if this person’s getting behind. You might need to put some resources over onto that station. And you’re really making sure, one, that food comes up together for a table. So, at your table, you’re sitting with four people. You don’t want to get served and the other three people are waiting five minutes behind that. So, they’re making sure that dishes are coming up together. They’re making sure that the pace of the food and the pace of the kitchen is moving along and there’s not big drags between courses. And so, I mean, that’s a hugely pivotal role in just really managing the balance of that universe.
Brad Johnson: It looks like probably one of the most intense roles.
Patric Yumul: It is.
Brad Johnson: Is it? Yeah. Because I’m just thinking, okay, well, this dish takes twice as long to prepare as this dish. They’re almost like back to conducting an orchestra, they fire that one when it’s halfway done. Now, fire that one and they’re just like coordinating them all at the same time. That’s kind of what’s going down. Okay. So, back to the soup question. We’ll get there now. All right. So, you’ve got you call it expediter. It’s that role typically and that’s either the chef or… Is it the sous chef is the right hand?
Patric Yumul: Yes. The chef or the executive sous chef.
Brad Johnson: Executive sous chef. So, if in the high-end restaurants they’re like, “This soup has been sitting here for five minutes. It’s too cold,” they’re sending it back. How do you say, “This is the standard we uphold and if it’s below that, sorry, I pissed off half the kitchen, but it’s not going out”? Because that seems like a really tough role to play. And I’m just curious how that works because I look at financial services. When you’re entrusted with $1 million, $2 million, $5 million, somebody’s little net worth they’ve worked their entire life for, the stakes are very high, and I’m just curious how that might apply to finance too where it’s like making sure there’s quality control of the product going out.
Patric Yumul: Right. I mean, I think that there’s got to be a fierce commitment from, one, that the expediter to not accepting subpar or even sub-excellent product and being tenacious with that and making sure that everything that’s leading that path is going to blow people’s minds. It’s executed exactly the way it’s supposed to be. And that’s the level that every single person in that kitchen said that they wanted to play at. And so, if they said that they wanted to play at that level, then they’ve got to be held to that standard. Just like whether it’s on a sports team. You come and play with Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan, you have to play to a certain level. And if you’re not going to put in the time, you’re not going to put in the work, and you’re not going to play to that level, then you’re going to get a world of hurt put back on you. If that means your plates keep coming back to you, if that means that if you’ve got to get a good getting to every now and again then that’s what’s going to happen.
Brad Johnson: So, you’ve got this standard, this cadence that everybody adheres to. When things fall short because I’m just thinking in financial services, “Hey, we’ve got specific paperwork that has to be filled out. You can’t miss this form or this is going to get held up at the insurance company.” And now we’re going to have a disappointed client because it took them three extra weeks to get the money moved into the product, right? So, what happens when things aren’t up to standard? How do you coach through that?
Patric Yumul: Well, I think the first thing you have to do is understand why. And it’s either why are things not happening according to the plan or to the standard or to the vision. Where have we become misaligned? And it’s usually either, one, the questions I ask are, do they have the resources? Do they have the right tools to perform their job? Okay. Do they know what their job is? Do they know how to perform their job? Do they have the acumen? Then do they have the capacity? So, if they have the tools and they know how to do their job, do they have the capacity to do it or do I have the wrong person in the wrong position?
And then the last part is those three things are a me problem, right? If they don’t have the right tools, if they don’t know their job or if they’re in the wrong position, as the leader, that’s my problem. I’m responsible for that. The last one is, do they want to do it? Do they want to perform? Do they want to produce great results for the client? Do they want to be part of this? And that’s a them and if the answer is no, they don’t have the want, they don’t have the desire, then they’ve got to go. You’ve got to cut them out of the business and off the team. But that to me always is the process that we go through.
And when a restaurant’s kind of gotten off course or off track, it’s usually because there’s a number of those different things that have become into existence, right? So, it might be this person’s in the wrong position. This person doesn’t want to be here. We don’t have the right tools. And so, it’s our job to make sure that we kind of suss through all of that and get it fixed. And I’ll tell you, and you brought up Will’s mentor, Danny Meyer has this concept of the salt shaker, right? And his job is to always make sure the salt shaker is in the middle of the table. And he has this premise called the constant gentle pressure. And as the leader, you want to just continue to apply constant gentle pressure. I talk about it differently with our teams as the Golden Gate Bridge. And I’m sure you’ve been to San Francisco.
You’ve seen the beautiful Golden Gate Bridge. It’s painted international orange. But every day they’re painting the bridge, right? Every day they go start on the San Francisco side, head to the Marin side, come back Marin to San Francisco. And they just continue to paint the bridge every day. And it’s just a little bit at a time. But the thing is, is that in the business, we’ve got to paint the bridge every day, right? Because if you leave it for let’s say you ignore and you don’t paint the bridge, then it’s a tremendous task to undertake. You’ve got to deploy 10X the people to go paint the bridge or it’s going to take you an exorbitant amount of time or whatever it is.
But if you’re just constantly taking care of the bridge and constantly painting it, then it’s always going to be right where it needs to be. And so, that’s the whole same concept as constant general pressure. And so, if we’re constantly painting the bridge and we’re constantly taking care of the business and making sure we’re applying the right pressures, then this combobulation can be eradicated very quickly. And it tends to not happen where you’ve got big issues in your business. It’s just small little issues that you can pluck away. But you’ve got to make sure that you’re constantly painting the bridge.
Brad Johnson: I love that analogy. I’ve actually never heard that. So, literally, there’s workers on the Golden Gate Bridge every day just working their way from one side to the other. And then once they get there, they’re just going, “Oh, time to go back.”
Patric Yumul: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: That’s interesting. Okay. So, let’s go to kind of another domain I see in what I would say restaurants that have truly committed to hospitality and making people feel special. I had a really cool experience at the French Laundry where I made a bad joke. They’re like, “Hey, what’s everybody want to drink?” And we had been wine tasting that day and I was like, “Do you have any Keystone Light?” I grew up in the middle of nowhere Kansas and Keystone Light was what was on the menu back in the day. And their answer to that question was, “Would you like Keystone Light, sir?” And we were like, “No, no, we’re just going to do wine. Thanks anyway.”
And about halfway through the courses, they show up with a bucket of Keystone Lights like pounders, and they put them on. They put them on UFC coasters and crack them in unison. And it was hilarious. And what’s crazy is that’s my memory and it was an incredible, amazing meal. And that’s my memory. And I’m curious. When you focus on hospitality, that’s active listening and training the staff to really serve and create fun experiences. How much flexibility and freedom do you give staff where it’s like, okay, here’s what’s on the menu, and obviously, we’re keeping that super dialed in, everything we just went through back in the kitchen and the conducting everything, and how much of that is this kind of flexible side where it’s like, “Hey, if you hear a guest say this thing, you’ve got the freedom to go like make their day”? Like, how do you think about that in the restaurant business?
Patric Yumul: So, that’s a great question. And we like to think about things in black and white, right? It’s either the rights and the wrongs, but to me, in hospitality, there’s not an enormous area of gray. And it’s funny, you brought up Vince Lombardi earlier in the conversation. But Vince Lombardi had a concept for his running back that was called running for daylight, right? And so, no matter what play he called the whole notion was whatever gap you see the most daylight in, that’s the hole you want to hit. And so, I’m going to call a draw. I’m going to call this play, that play, but you have the freedom to run for daylight.
And so, we talk about that in our restaurants as well as we teach the team to run for daylight. Wherever they see the opportunity for the most hospitality, that’s where they need to run. And we’ve got the service standards in the black and whites or the do’s and don’ts but it’s okay to bend that if you see an opportunity to have your Keystone Light moment or if you see the opportunity to really have increased hospitality. And I’ll tell you the thing is, is that dinner at French Laundry, can you tell me what the main course was?
Brad Johnson: No. Well, first off, it was like four hours of courses. It spiraled over the top. But no, I don’t think I could actually name one course. They were all amazing.
Patric Yumul: Right. And you probably can’t name any of the wines that they paired with the courses either, but you can tell me about the Keystone Light, right? That’s probably the best part of that experience was, obviously, going to The French Laundry is magical and being there, but having that Keystone Light moment, I mean, that was what put it over the top for you, right? I mean, and so that’s the thing that you hold on to and it’s being able to have your antennas up and listen and see, how do I create more hospitality and more magic in this person’s experience? I mean, that’s what is always going to leave an indelible impression on you.
Brad Johnson: Do you have one of those moments that you can just go back to in your restaurant career where you’re like, “This was really fun when we pulled off”?
Patric Yumul: I mean, we do a lot of different things. And I mean, there’s been a number of… I’ll tell you one that I think was pretty special and pretty incredible was that we had a buyout at our restaurant in San Francisco. And this couple had come from probably, like, they’re somewhere from the Midwest. And they’d come to San Francisco as the anniversary, and they had made the reservation for the wrong day. And they made it for a Saturday. They showed up on Friday. We had a buyout. They were going to wine country on Saturday, so they weren’t able to switch their plans because they had… They’re going to Napa and so on and so forth.
And so, they show up. It’s their anniversary weekend. They have been dying to eat at the restaurant. But the restaurant was bought out, right? We had a corporate event there. There was no way we could do anything with them.
Brad Johnson: Was this Aqua, by chance?
Patric Yumul: Yes. Yeah, it was Aqua. And so, I was there. And I start calling… So, at the time, there was five 4-star restaurants in San Francisco, according to the San Francisco Chronicle. And so, I just start calling all the 4-star restaurants, and I get them into Hubert Keller’s restaurant, which was called Fleur de Lys. And it was an amazing restaurant, very charming.
And so, we had a company, Tahoe, that we used for catering. So, I grab the Tahoe, get them in the Tahoe, drive them to Fleur de Lys, walk them into the restaurant. And as restaurant people, especially back at this time, we’re all very close. And so, I went to the Sam, who would come to our bar and we’d go to their bar and this and that and grabbed two glasses of champagne. And we got them sat and got them two glasses of champagne. And we made sure that they’re all set. And we picked up their dinner. It wasn’t our mistake. It was their mistake. We picked up their dinner.
But to this day, they are just raving fans. This was probably 23 years ago. To this day, I mean, any time they’re going to see that has, I mean, a restaurant, that’s the first restaurant they go to. And they’re huge evangelists and huge fans of everything that we do because of that moment. And so, we didn’t have to do it, but that small little investment that we made has paid dividends beyond our wildest dreams.
Brad Johnson: Oh, and I’m sure they’ve told all their friends that story 500 times at this point. So, they screwed up and you got them into a restaurant. It’s a Friday. I’m sure it was already booked solid and picked up the tab. That’s wild.
Patric Yumul: Yeah. But there’s great stories. But also, Mother Teresa says, we all do great things, but we can do small things with great love. And so, also, I encourage people that it doesn’t have to be these grand gestures. It can be just small, little thoughtful gestures that add up. And it’s kind of like, dollar-cost averaging, right? It’s like, you’re constantly just chunking away, chunking away, chunking away. And then over time, it’s going to compound and it’s going to have a greater reward. And so, I don’t think that it has to be these grandiose gestures. I think it’s just constant, small little acts of thoughtfulness that will certainly carry huge loads later on.
Brad Johnson: Okay, I want to go. We didn’t hit this yet. I probably waited too long. But the bulk of the MINA Group as well as your new venture, TableOne Hospitality, so we’re kind of talking before we went live here, MINA Group kind of takes these concepts that can be kind of replicated in different markets where TableOne Hospitality is a little bit more boutique and one of one. But the common thread is most of your restaurant properties are in hotels or in partnership with hotels. So, is there anything different in partnership? And by the way, super nice hotels, like in Vegas you’re in. What hotel properties in Vegas are your restaurants in, across…
Patric Yumul: Mina’s at Bellagio, MGM, Aria, Mandalay Bay, Four Seasons.
Brad Johnson: So, some very nice establishments to say the least. And so, is there a different way you think about restaurants when they’re a business inside of a business as opposed to just a standalone restaurant that’s out on its own?
Patric Yumul: Well, I think, what we try to do is represent the headset and the mindset of an independent freestanding restaurant within the hotel world. And that’s part of the reason why we’ve been able to be successful is because everybody that works in our organization, they’re restaurateurs, they’re chefs, they’re mixologists, they live, breathe, and die for restaurants. And a lot of times, in the hotel world, everybody is really focused on the hotel. And the restaurant might be not as important or somewhat of a burden. And so, for us, it’s not the burden, it’s the gift. And so, that’s one of the things.
But well, we’ve got to make sure that we are understanding of and you’ve got to understand what the greater good is for the property and understand what are the needs of that asset. And one, we deal with hoteliers, but we also deal with a lot of different asset managers or different owners, whether they’re managing family offices and this is their investment or they’re managing pension funds. And everybody has different needs and different visions for that capital. And so, we’ve got to understand we’re dealing with a high-net-worth independent investor and this is a dream thing for them, then we’re looking at the world a little bit differently than if this is somebody that’s managing Kansas Deputy Department’s pension fund, right?
They’ve got constituents that they’ve got to answer to. And so, we’ve got to look at the world differently there. And so, we’ve got to understand, what’s the overall vision? How are we going to drive the most value for the asset? One, is it through the reputation that we’re building within the market and the community for the restaurant? Is it by the service that the restaurant is providing for their heads and beds? Is it there are a line that we’re providing for ownership’s investment? And how do we balance all those out while still creating a very relevant product that is going to drive business, drive the community, drive engagement, etc.?
Brad Johnson: So, there’s a lot of partnerships in finance, a lot of, like myself and my partner Shawn, co-founders, and there’s a lot of that in finance. There’s also a lot of family businesses where it’s father-sons, father-daughters, a lot of those dynamics. When it’s hotel and restaurant, are most of those partnerships, because there’s one thing, just go lease space and, okay, I’m putting my restaurant here, there’s another thing where it’s a partnership because when I look at the properties in Vegas, there’s really nice hotels, but there’s also really nice restaurants that pull people into really nice hotels that also happen to have casinos. So, you’re pulling and paying customers off of the street. So, is it more of a partnership model in Vegas where it’s like, hey, a kind of profit share? Or is it just, hey, I lease space and here’s where my restaurant goes?
Patric Yumul: It depends. It depends on the property. Some properties are very focused on just leasing out the spaces and collecting rent. Other properties are very focused on controlling the destiny, controlling the environment. And so, very few of the spaces are leased and they’re all kind of partnership agreements or management agreements with different chefs and restaurateurs. And where they ate, there could be a profit. There’s a profit share and the other one’s just kind of a typical tenant and a landlord type of relationship. So, it really depends on the property. But the majority of spots that we’re in in hotels are more the partnership type of vehicle.
Brad Johnson: So, on that note, what do you believe makes those partnerships work? If you’re like, hey, here’s the best properties that we work really well with where the restaurant loves the hotel, the hotel loves the restaurant, like, what’s making that work there?
Patric Yumul: I think, ultimately, one, it’s making sure your values and visions are aligned and then, two, that the team that’s executing also understands values and visions and they’re aligned. Four Seasons, they didn’t have management agreements, they didn’t have outside chefs coming into their hotels. They ran all the restaurants. And we were one of the first outside restaurant groups to operate within the Four Seasons. We had this property in D.C. at the Four Seasons in Georgetown.
And it was, obviously, the ownership brought us in. And they built out a beautiful restaurant for us, and we were very confident in our ability to execute. But it was really, the person that was the GM of the Four Seasons that really made it for us to be successful because he fully bought in and fully supported the vision and then was an evangelist to his team to make sure that they were doing everything to support that vision as well.
And so, we all operated off the same sheet of music. And we were all working kind of in concert together to execute this product that ultimately produced the restaurant that, to this day, is one of the best in the city, not just from a qualitative perspective, but also from a quantitative perspective, but then continue to add value to the asset and just made overall hotel experience kind of rise up as well. And he was highly instrumental. And so, I think, a lot of times, you look at a talent on a football team and, obviously, you’re from Kansas and you’re really fortunate right now because you’ve got the best, arguably one of the best coaches in the planet and…
Brad Johnson: Patric, do you think you’d be? Yeah, we’ve had a good run. I’m not taking it for granted. I just want you to know that.
Patric Yumul: But there’s a chemistry there, right? And you see it on the guidelines. You can see it in a lot of the story that comes out. There is a chemistry there. And a lot of times, you might have the right talent and the right ingredients and the right things, but if the chemistry is not there, it sometimes deconstructs or implodes. And so, to me, it’s one of the most important factors is making sure that the chemistry is there and the vision and the values are all aligned.
Brad Johnson: That’s awesome. Well, Patric, this has been awesome. I’ve learned a lot. I mean, actually, I was talking with my wife the other day. And I’m like, I think, like, when I get older, if there’s one thing I might be interested in learning how to do it, it might be cooking, like real cooking, like chef-level cooking, not just like messing around in our kitchen. So, I’ve always been fascinated with just food and wine.
And so, when Triad slows down a little bit, which is going to be a long time from now, I’ll look you up, and I know you’ve got the connections if I ever want to geek out on that side. But this is, I’ve loved the conversation and as you know, this podcast, Do Business, Do Life, you’re a dad as well, you’re a family man, I’d just like to end with one last question. And what is Patric’s definition of Do Business, Do Life?
Patric Yumul: My definition of Do Business, Do Life is, obviously, as you know, for me, I’m the breadwinner of this house and I’m the leader of this house, and when I’ve got to be successful in my endeavors with business, but I also have to be successful in my endeavors at home. And so, I work for our life, but my life is my work as well. And I take both very seriously.
And me, personally, I want to be successful and help others be successful. And that’s the do business side of things. And so, I’m constantly a student of learning how to do business and how to grow that and how to be a better leader, but also, constantly learning how to apply that at home as well. And to me, doing business and doing life is kind of, they blend together in terms of my philosophy and my outlook on things.
But doing business and doing life, also, they have to be compartmentalized and when you’re doing business, you’ve got to do business and you’ve got to be present in your business. And when you’re doing life, you also need to be doing life and being present in life. And so, I know a lot of people talk about work-life balance, but I think it’s about how do I have this overall philosophy that applies to both work and life, but then balance them out by my attention and intention when I’m in each of those realms.
Brad Johnson: Well, the cool thing in your business, you’ve got a lot of businesses and a lot of really cool places. And so, my guess is you get to do, as we say, DBDL, you get to do some pretty cool life when you bring the crew along and like, I’ll just swing in. Okay, cool. We’re going to be on the beach in Hawaii for a while. I mean, I’m assuming you do some of those combo trips along the way.
Patric Yumul: They’re very fortunate. Yes, they get to tag along every once in a while.
Brad Johnson: Cool, cool. Well, hey, my man, it’s been an awesome conversation on a Friday. Really glad that Jason connected us. And I look forward to hopefully someday our paths crossing in person.
Patric Yumul: Awesome.
Brad Johnson: So, I really enjoyed the conversation.
Patric Yumul: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on. And yeah, I look forward to hopefully having a Keystone Light together.
Brad Johnson: If we’re that lucky, right? All right, my man. Until next time.
Patric Yumul: All right. Bye.
Brad Johnson: See you.
