The Story Behind 20% Growth in Less Than 7 Months

Brad Johnson: Welcome back to another episode of Do Business Do Life joined by John McNeil and his daughter, Virginia O’Brien. And I wore the only shirt I could wear for today’s conversation. Mobile Bay.

Virginia O’Brien: That’s right.

Brad Johnson: But I know exactly how to pronounce it, Virginia, because you sent me the shirt that tells me how. We’re a little slow here in Kansas so sometimes we just need it spelled out right on our shirt, you know? So, welcome to the conversation. Glad to have you guys on today.

Virginia O’Brien: Thank you. Yes. We cannot stand you pronouncing Mo-beel. I can’t remember. Was it Mo-bel? Is that how you used to say it?

Brad Johnson: Well, I don’t think I was that bad. It was probably… It was, yeah.

John McNeil: You know, now it worked because now you know the right way.

Brad Johnson: Now, I know the right way. Yeah.

Virginia O’Brien: That’s right. So, yes, it’s a good old slow pronunciation of the city. So, you’ve got it right now. And you’re a true Alabama fan now.

Brad Johnson: That’s true. Well, we’ll maybe start on the do life side. We’ll get to the do business side. Braun and I actually we’re just so – so my oldest 14-year-old Braun had his first junior high football game of the season last night. They were victorious, 44/nothing, so it was a good start to the season. And you all were kind enough when you heard Braun was football was his sport. He said, “Hey, y’all need to come down too.” I think you just call it like real football, like SEC football. It’s on another level. I’ve heard it all, you know, being a big 12 guy my whole life. And so, you were kind enough to invite us down. So, we were at the LSU Bama game in Tuscaloosa last year. Insane game. And I will say after experiencing that, I do have to agree. The SEC is on a whole nother level, just the way you do things, the environment, the stadium. It was definitely a lifelong memory. So, I really appreciate that. Braun and I had a blast.

Virginia O’Brien: It was fun. Of course, they’re dad’s tickets. Dad wasn’t there with us to join that game. He has vowed pretty much to never go to the LSU game because I don’t know what rival would be compared to the, you know, people think, “Oh, Alabama-Auburn. That’s the big rivalry.” But that’s the in-state rivalry and really we want Auburn to win if they’re not playing us. And hopefully, they think the same. Tennessee is a pretty big rivalry but LSU and Alabama fans, especially after Saban came to Alabama, it was just you saw, I mean, it is intense. It is intense.

Brad Johnson: I saw my first corn dog trap that I’d ever seen.

John McNeil: Yeah. They don’t appreciate our antics about common corn dogs.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. And I’ll tell you what was interesting. I know the Greek culture is at a different level in the South, but the way the stadium is directly across the street from all of the fraternity houses and then, of course, the sororities are kind of on the other side. So, we have this Johnson family tradition. We have to go to Waffle Houses when it’s just the guys. So, we woke up the morning of game day, walk to Waffle House, which is right by all the fraternities and Braun’s 13 at the time. And let’s just say he saw he had an early experience of college life because there’s empty beer cans and there’s like a drunk guy wandering around in the yard trying to pick stuff up. And I was like, “Well, Braun, that’s some people that made bad decisions last night.”

Virginia O’Brien: Yep.

Brad Johnson: But by the time we got out of Waffle House, the parties were firing back up. And so, it was quite the experience.

Virginia O’Brien: And we took Braun to his first fraternity party.

Brad Johnson: That’s true.

Virginia O’Brien: Not an underage party. It was people of all ages. It was a daytime party. But like we told you, dad’s fraternity and my husband, Grey, was in the same one. Of course, Grey was with us too and their fraternity house is literally right across, you know. So, that’s where we had to stand to watch the team come in. And it was a great day for sure and he won. And it was Saban’s last season, which we did invite them.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. And you all also were super kind. You use some little connections you’ve had from the years of being Bama fans and you presented Braun with a signed Jersey with his name and number by Nick Saban. So, that was just, you all went over the top so thank you for that.

Virginia O’Brien: Oh, absolutely.

Brad Johnson: And, John, did I hear a rumor right that you might have been partially responsible for the location of the fraternity house being directly across from the stadium?

John McNeil: Yeah. In their infinite wisdom, the fraternity appointed me as the chairman to head up the negotiations with the university. We didn’t want to lose our old house. It was where the stadium entrance is. They tore it down. I said, “I want that lot right there,” and they said, “Okay.” So, the police station was there. They had to tear down the police station to give us the lot to build the house. So, it’s a great place to tailgate.

Brad Johnson: You never visited that spot when you were in college, did you? The police station spot, you weren’t familiar with it?

John McNeil: No, no, no.

Brad Johnson: Okay. Just checking. Well, I’ll tell you what I love about every conversation we always have and this has been from day one when I met you all is you like to have a good time. You don’t take this thing too seriously. Obviously, you’ve built an incredible business but you like to have a lot of fun doing it. And I know, John, it has to be very rewarding. We were talking before we went live here. Virginia is actually the fourth generation McNeil, obviously, now O’Brien, but the fourth generation McNeil at the family business. So, as we kick this off, that’s super rare. And you’re from the original founding in 1922, your grandfather. Over 100 years old now, the business.

So, let’s maybe share some stories like you obviously grew up with a dad and a grandpa that was in primarily I think it started in insurance and evolved to financial services. But what are some of those lessons growing up? And as you kind of were the kid probably walking around the office to eventually being a partner at the firm, what did you learn along the way or what really called you to get into this business?

John McNeil: Well, it was various. And I did grow up and, as you know, having been in this business for a while, I grew up going to incentive trips or conventions with all kind of insurance companies when I was a very young kid all over the world. Then I was thinking to myself, “What does my father do that he gets to go on these trips to Europe or wherever?” And I thought that was pretty cool that as a young person, I never got to get… My grandfather passed away before I joined the firm but he was a very big man. He was a true – he looked like somebody walked off of a plantation. He wore a big white hat. He looked like Barnaby Jones or Matlock. He wore seersucker suits and always had a cigar in his mouth.

And he was obviously a very successful man. My father joined him in 1947. My father was a prisoner of war, World War II. And when he got home, he was ready to go back to school. He wanted to be a doctor. And so, my grandfather told him, “So, why don’t you just come work for me until there’s an opening in the med school?” And he never thought twice and never went back and started in the insurance business. I joined the firm in 1979, and I don’t look that old, but I was very young. But it was great because I got to join the firm. My brother was still alive at the time, so is my father and brother and myself. And I got to work with my father for 32 years before he passed away.

And fast forward to about 14 years ago when Virginia joined the firm, being the fourth generation as a partner in the firm in which she came in, all the other partners, Virginia made a lot of changes. We walked in. She said, “We’re going to start having weekly partner meetings,” and our partners are going, “Okay.” So, we sit around the conference room. She comes in and she has an agenda on a week. One, we never had partner meetings, but now we’re having partner meetings every week with an agenda and she made a lot of changes. And I finally said, after a year or so, I said, “I get to work with Chacha.” That was what they called my father. “I got to work with him for 32, 33 years. Are you and I going to be working together for 32, 33 years?” She goes, “We’ll see.” And I’ll never forget that.

Brad Johnson: If you get it together, John, we’ll see.

Virginia O’Brien: Well, one of the things when I came into the firm, I was in the corporate side for about a year and a half. I went and worked on the corporate side of things first. And then when I came home to join the firm, one thing is there was a room in our old office that was pretty big. It was a pretty big room. Probably had, I don’t know, 30 file cabinets full of files. I mean, it was 90 years’ worth of files at the time. And I said, “First of all, we’re going to go paperless.” And they were like, “No, we’re not. We absolutely are not going to do that.” And I was like, second of all, this CRM system that they had, it was so antiquated. I was like, “This thing is a dinosaur, guys.” I was like, “This thing, you might as well not even have one.” And they’re like, “No, it’s great. It’s like the best one out there. We pay a fortune for it.”

So, I was like, “Just let me think about it.” So, we’ve converted everything to a new CRM system and they were like, okay, and I was like, “And now look at this. You can click, click, click,” and there’s all their files. And they were like, “What?” I mean, they just couldn’t believe it. So, after about six months, we hired some college students to come in and do all the scanning of it and got rid of all of the file cabinets but it was pretty neat. I would say that experience is pretty neat because some of those files that we had were literally back in the 20s and 30s, dated back in the 20s and 30s. I mean, you’re looking like there was a correspondence from a cotton farmer in Mississippi that was a client of either Chacha’s or my dad’s. I can’t remember.

John McNeil: No, it’s my grandfather.

Virginia O’Brien: Oh, yeah. That’s right. And his stationery was like a cotton, linen cotton like a fabric almost. And he was writing letters, you know, writing correspondence on his stationery because he was a cotton farmer. So, it was this very…

John McNeil: It was Oxford cloth cotton like what my shirts made out of.

Virginia O’Brien: Yeah. And that’s what his stationery was. Just really cool things like that.

Brad Johnson: The man believed in his product. What can you say, right? He’s like, “I’m not writing on paper. I’m writing on cotton.”

Virginia O’Brien: Yeah.

John McNeil: Brad, one of the cool stories we tell at our dinner meetings and our clients, the new people who come in and they really appreciate it. And we do it on the radio too. Virginia has clients that are the great grandchildren of her great grandfather’s clients. So, we’ve got generations of families that have stayed with us and that continuity means a lot. They may move all over the country, but they’re still clients. And it’s an amazing story to tell because most people in the financial world, they come and go. You don’t have a lot of old financial planners. You know, they just aren’t there. So, we’ve got the continuity of being here to fulfill what we call our Dreamcatcher. When we put Dreamcatcher together, it doesn’t mature until that generation passes away and it goes to the next generation. And we’re going to be here to make sure that that plan is fulfilled and modified as we go. So, that’s a pretty cool story to tell.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. Well, there’s a lesson in that. So, let’s take a second. Let’s talk about it. And for context, because some are listening in, they’re like, “Okay, Dreamcatcher, what’s this?” So, one of the things and I’ve got it pulled up here right in front of me, when you all onboarded as a Triad member, we have something called a launch plan. And the best analogy I can use and if you guys have a better one, please share it, is it’s almost like that scene out of Jurassic Park where they extract the DNA out of the mosquito. It’s like extracting what makes you unique and why. Obviously, these clients have stuck with you for four generations but doing it in a way where you can now message it and say, “Hey, here’s what we’re about. Here’s how we serve you.”

And the Retirement Dreamcatcher is basically your proprietary financial planning process made up of obviously the five worlds and how you build your financial plans. And I guess my first question that’s really coming to mind is one of the things that I hear we’ve got this big transfer of wealth coming in because you’ve got all these aging baby boomers. Unfortunately, when they pass away, obviously, whatever’s left is going to go to kids, grandkids. And I know there’s a lot of people in financial services right now talking about, “Oh, all these advisors, you’re missing the boat,” because statistically it shows when mom and dad pass away, the kids take the money and go somewhere else versus their parents’ financial advisor.

So, are there things that you can attribute to how Virginia is now working with the great grandchildren of your grandfather’s clients? Like, what have you all done differently to keep that with you all versus it going to some financial advisor down the road?

Virginia O’Brien: I think one thing we do is when we are laying out a plan, we don’t just tell people how to invest their money, first of all. Like you said, we have a whole process and it’s a whole plan and it maps it out. It’s got all the five worlds, this new one we call the Five Feathers because it’s the five feathers off the Dreamcatcher. And so, it addresses really everything, including legacy benefits. So, it addresses that need, that wish, if that’s what the client wants. And one of the things we’re always encouraging our clients is bringing in that person at some point that is the next generation that is going to control that wealth after they’re gone or maybe while they’re still here and have to be those advocates for our client, whether it’s a child, a niece, a nephew, a family friend, somebody that if something were to happen to them, not pass away, but have to have somebody that is going to be, you know, help take care of their finances and that kind of thing.

They need to kind of know what’s going on. Do we have long term care addressed in the plan? If so, how does that incorporate? How do we need to use that? What happens if this happens? And basically, if there’s any sort of big life change, call John and Virginia, make sure we’re doing all the right things. And so, we really encourage our clients to make sure they’re bringing in that next generation when they’re comfortable with it, of course if they want to, so that next generation knows. And I would say probably 98% do want that. And I would say a big portion as well even when their children are younger, 30s and 40s, they’re saying, “Okay. Y’all need to go meet with our financial advisors. They’ve done a really good job for y’all stuff,” so bringing those people on early, which is always really fun for us to get to really work with the next generation.

But I think making sure that not only that our clients feel comfortable with how that plan is going to play out but knowing that not only we’re going to be here to help them through it but also help that next generation through it because, Brad, you know enough about the business. When somebody passes away, it’s not easy on the people emotionally, but then logistically, all the things that have to happen, it’s a lot. Especially if it’s a parent you’re losing or a spouse you’re losing, that’s a lot. So, we’re taking care of that. And I think that that really translates. We’re not just going to invest your money. We’re not just going to tell you what to do. We’re going to be here to help you through it. And that really is the center of everything we try to do.

We try to really make sure we’re helping our clients, helping their situation, bettering their situation. And it’s a genuine thing. And I think that really translates. I mean, you can say that all day long but I think they see where we’re going. Like, one of the questions we ask in our very first meeting is, “Do you have legal planning taken care of?” You’d be surprised or maybe not how many people don’t. And they say, “Oh, are y’all attorneys? Do you all write wills?” and we say, no. I mean, we absolutely don’t but that is a part of your whole plan. If you don’t have a will or don’t have a power of attorney and something happened, that kind of thing, I think that really translates. And I think that when you truly care about a family, they want to stick around. They want to be, you know, they want that attention and they want that to be told not just what to do but to feel confident that it is the best thing to do.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. I’m curious, what percentage would you guess when you ask that question, don’t have estate docs in place?

Virginia O’Brien: Probably 50%.

John McNeil: It’s pretty high and they may have them, but they may be in their mid to late 60s and they drew a will when their children were still minors and hadn’t been updated.

Virginia O’Brien: Yeah.

John McNeil: And they don’t have an updated power of attorney which require nowadays the financial power, being able to sign contracts, open accounts. And we tell them and they really appreciate it. We tell them it’s very important to have a will or a trust if we’re going to be using trust. But that doesn’t really involve you because that doesn’t come into play until you’re dead. You’re gone.

But what does involve you, and the husband and wife are sitting across the table from Virginia and I, we say, “You know, if Bob over here has a stroke or develops Alzheimer’s, dementia, or whatever, and you don’t have that power of attorney in place, you can’t call Social Security. You can’t call his company to check on his pension plan. You can’t get money out of accounts that we would have without a signature. And if he can’t sign, you’re going to have to sign this as power of attorney. So, it’s imperative that you have that power of attorney.” And because we need to, we’ve got copies of their power of attorney for the majority of our clients because we have to have it on file in case something does happen.

Brad Johnson: Yeah.

Virginia O’Brien: And that was one thing too, that we have a service now through Triad Wealth with Wealth.com put us on to that which has been truly tremendously helpful and such a good outlet for our clients too, which we’ve really used that a lot. It’s been super helpful.

Brad Johnson: Give me the short version of because, obviously, you all I know you’ve focused on this for as long as I’ve known you where it’s not just like, “Hey, sell them a portfolio and some insurance and move on.” Like, you’ve always had holistic planning at the front and center of the services you provide. But give me the before and after of here’s how we did it before Wealth.com and here’s how we do it now, if you don’t mind.

Virginia O’Brien: Well, before Wealth.com, we were always asking that. We just said, “Do you have it?” And they said no and we’d say, “Okay. Well, do you have an attorney? Do you know an attorney?” And they’d say either yes or no and we say, “Okay. Well, here’s a couple of names of some attorneys.” And we would, you know, we try to force some relationships with some attorneys that would do it, especially for what we call the ‘I love you’ wills, your classic traditional family where it’s just married with two kids. And when something happens to one, it’s going to go to the other. When it happens to the second spouse, it just goes straight to the two kids equally. Nothing about it.

And so, we’d say, “If you can do these services and kind of what’s the price there?” because it can be very expensive to draw up legal paperwork. And we still recommend an attorney, estate planning attorneys, for something that is a little more complicated than what we would call an ‘I love you’ will. But if it involved more of that kind of thing, we just kind of send them to an attorney if they didn’t have one, give them a couple of names of some in town, and then actually even say, “When you all get that executed, you all can bring it in here, have them come here.” And the couple of attorneys that we usually suggested really like that because then we could kind of go over everything and kind of talk about it if they had any questions.

And so, now, as opposed to with Wealth.com, which I would say probably 80% of our clients, the Wealth.com is exactly what they need so it’s great. And they do more than just a traditional ‘I love you’ will, don’t get me wrong. And we’ve done some more complicated stuff. We’ve had clients do some more complicated stuff just because of the services that Wealth.com provide. This is no like plug for that. I just, you know, but they have attorneys on staff. It’s all attorney so they can call and talk to attorneys on staff there with questions, which is really helpful. And then so if it was something involved a trust or something like that, we’d talk through that with them. And now we just send them to Wealth.com if they don’t have it. It was a, you know, you go through here, you take a quiz, and you do it.

In fact, to test it out, Grey and I, we updated our wills and power of attorneys and all of that. So, I like to test drive something before I buy it and it’s great. So, again, I truly believe in the products. Personally, that’s what I have all of our legal planning on. So, yeah.

John McNeil: When you have made your will, did you leave me everything? I’m just curious.

Virginia O’Brien: You have a little some. I probably left you a little token of something.

John McNeil: Okay, good. Yeah. Thank you.

Virginia O’Brien: Yeah, you’re welcome. But, yeah, so now it’s just a little easier step, and they feel very comfortable with that. Some people are old fashioned. They want to go sit at an attorney’s office and pay them $650 an hour. And if they want to do that, that’s perfectly fine. It just gives people an easy outlet. Especially our younger clients really love it, so.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. Well, we heard kind of John’s coming up in the business story. I don’t want to skip yours, Virginia. I’ll give my side and then I’d love to hear your side. So, I was working with your dad and his business partner, Ed and Ray, I think was a part of that as well. And so, met you guys in a prior life and was working a few years and then I remember, I don’t remember the exact conversation, John, but I remember you saying, “Hey, I think my daughter is going to come into the business.” And I believe my recollection, you kind of sent her to this training conference solo. You’re like, “Hey, my daughter is going to be there. Make sure you say hi,” you know, sort of deal. So, there was always a high level of trust, Virginia.

Virginia O’Brien: This was like 30 seconds into me joining the firm, by the way. Let’s not forget that, okay? Like, so I was a baby.

Brad Johnson: He knew you could fend for yourself. I don’t even remember. Do you remember what city that was? Was it…

Virginia O’Brien: Indianapolis.

Brad Johnson: It was Indianapolis. Okay. Okay. So, it was Indianapolis and I remember we met and really quickly I was like, “Wow. Virginia is a go getter.” Like, back to the story on the agenda, like when she’s got something and she’s like, “Hey, now we need to upgrade this process. This is the direction we need to head.” She is not shy about saying it. And I remember we connected like in outside of a conference room in a hallway, Virginia, and I was like, “Okay. This is awesome.” This is not the parent that gave their child the silver spoon. This is a go getter that’s going to help take this firm to the next level. And what’s been really cool is I’ve been able to see that play out over the last decade plus. 14 years ago, Virginia, Is that how long ago it was?

Virginia O’Brien: It was 12 years ago. 12 and a half years ago. Yeah, got rounded up.

John McNeil: I remember when she joined the firm and she, literally, she walked in the first day and set up her office and everything and I said, “By the way, you’re going to Indianapolis with this group,” the group you were with, right?

Virginia O’Brien: In two weeks.

John McNeil: “Two weeks. Here’s your airplane ticket. Go.” And she called me after the first half day. She said, “Dad, there are 300 people here.”

Virginia O’Brien: No. There was like 950 people there.

John McNeil: And they’re only like five female planners. The rest are all these men. And I said, “Well, welcome to the – that’s why you need to be in this business because there’s a min cap need.”

Virginia O’Brien: I felt like Miley Cyrus stepping off the plane into LAX. Like I was like, “Where am I? What is going on?” It was a totally different and I don’t mean like big like Indianapolis. It was like I got to this hotel. It was a hotel for like a… And I had just never experienced that at all, much less by myself. You know, I knew that this and this might not be easy to say, but I knew this industry was made up majority of all white men, right? I mean, that’s kind of what it is. And I get to this conference and there are, I mean, how many would you say would be at an event like that that we’re talking about? I mean, I’m not exaggerating.

Brad Johnson: You’re probably right because that was… You’re probably right. And I mean, that was…

Virginia O’Brien: 2012.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. I mean, and that organization’s grown substantially since then. But you’re probably approaching a thousand. Maybe not quite that much but 750, 800. I mean, it was hard. Like, I knew I needed to connect with you because it was your first experience so I was like, “Okay. Well, let’s make sure to sort through the sea of people to find where Virginia is.”

Virginia O’Brien: Yeah. And I just buckle, I just got there, I walked in, and I think the look on my face was just evident. And I wish I could remember her name because I would give her a shout out. And she was an advisor. She was married to another guy like they were a husband-and-wife team. And she was older and she saw me walk in and luckily she was, that was like God’s timing of putting her right there. And she looked at me. I think she could just tell I was super lost a little bit and like not really sure what to do because it was one of those things. You walked in and it was a sit down dinner and it wasn’t assigned seat so you had to kind of like first day new kid in the lunchroom kind of thing.

Brad Johnson: Yeah.

Virginia O’Brien: And I’m not a shy person. I will go up and make friends but I was just blown away. I mean, I was like, “Like, what are we even going to do here?” And I walk in and she was like, “Hey, I’m…” whatever her name was, I can’t remember, “Tell me about yourself,” and I was like, “Actually, I just joined the firm and I’m here by myself.” And she’s like, “Well, you can stick with me.” And I was like, “Thank you.” I said, “I literally know zero people here. I don’t even know the people I’m supposed to meet. I think I knew what you all looked like but I didn’t really, you know, we had not Zoomed or anything.”

Brad Johnson: Yeah.

Virginia O’Brien: And so, anyway, on all the sessions I just went to the front row on the end and just sort of started taking notes and doing all the things and, yeah, we connected. You were like, “Hey, Virginia. I’m Brad.” I was like, “Okay. Yes, nice to meet you,” and kind of went on from there. But I started, kind of back up, you kind of mentioned this wasn’t this, you know, handing it over in a silver spoon kind of thing. Our parents, we grew up very privileged. We always had everything we could ever want and more as kids but we were never allowed to just take it for granted. When we were 14, we were always expected to work throughout the whole summer, no matter what that was.

My oldest brother literally dug ditches for an engineering firm. He would come home covered in mud. So, it’s not like we were doing some, like, pristine things. It was real jobs. My middle brother was always working at restaurants, that kind of thing. His passion was cooking, so that’s always what he was doing. And I like to say that I’m the wisest of the three and I’m the only girl but it’s hot in Mobile in the summer. It’s really hot. And I was already a big equestrian. I was already outside all summer long in the heat. So, I knew that I could either shovel horse manure at the barn as my job, which I did plenty of already or dad said, “You know, we do need some help at the office if you want to come work with the office.”

And I went in to test it out. I was like, “I can do this.” It’s in the air conditioning during the day, during the hottest part of the day. That’s great. And I did not ever realize this until somebody asked me why I got into this business because they were like, “Did you get into it because everybody in your family does it?” And I was like, “No, not really.” I was like, “Because my two oldest brothers, who you would think would kind of fit into that role, the sons and all of that, they really had no interest and dad never forced it.” At that time, my grandfather was still alive too, they never forced us or expected us of that. But one thing that I saw and I worked at the firm for three summers consecutively was that people came in to the office and I usually sat right up at the front.

There was a couple of desks up front and I used to set up there at the front and they would come in seemingly a little nervous like I did pick up on that. I was like, you know, you could tell it was a little bit like going to the doctor’s office maybe, or just not real sure. And they always left like no matter what, dad is always ending a meeting with like, “It’s going to be great,” you know, kind of a little chuckle and everybody’s like super relaxed when they leave. So, I could see very clearly, especially now looking back, there was a clear shift in like they went into the room, they came out of the room, and then I’m seeing the two extremes. And I could tell when it was a new client and I could tell when it was an older, longtime kind of client. And I thought that was really cool.

And to dad’s point, when he was little, I didn’t really know what my dad did. Like, when people ask, I was like, “I don’t know. He does insurance or something.” You know, I didn’t really know. I didn’t know until I started working there that dad, what he did was he solve people’s problems and he helped them. And he always was doing the right thing by them and they really trusted him very quickly. I mean, my dad’s a super likable guy, but trust is a different level and you could see that people really trusted him right away. And so, when I went to college, the University of Alabama actually has a CFP-certified family financial planning program. And up until I was a senior in high school, I really wanted to be a vet. You know, I grew up in equestrian. I love animals. In fact, my 14-week old puppy is right behind me sleeping back there. Dad brings his Lab to work every day too.

John McNeil: My 14-year-old puppy is right here beside me.

Virginia O’Brien: Yeah. I have a 14-week-old. He had a 14-year-old.

Brad Johnson: They’re well-behaved. I haven’t heard any barking yet.

Virginia O’Brien: Yeah. So, I wanted to be a vet. And of course, I don’t know if you’re familiar with this, Brad, but the two biggest vet schools in our area are Auburn and LSU. And dad was like, “Listen, you can still go to Alabama undergrad and still get into their vet school. I’m sure of it. I’m sure of it.” So, anyway, but that last summer I said, “You know, I want to do this.” And when I went to go tour it, they had that program and I was like, “This is what I’m going to do.” And so, it was really cool because I really got to start in that program and really actually get involved with the Financial Planning Association up there and it was really cool. But that was the biggest shift for me when I saw that is the way he was able to help people.

And I will say getting to work with him for the last 12 years and he knows this, especially in my early days when it was very much I was not making a lot of money at all. I was barely, you know, as you do when you start out in this business, especially so young. And he did not treat me any differently. It’s not like I was put on some cush salary and whatever. It was you had to work to earn it. Just like he came up in the business too, which I think is very valuable and I’m grateful that he did. But there was times when I knew that there was a case maybe that would make us more money, but then somebody would call and ask for something that would maybe take some time, but it was something they needed.

And I remember it was somebody that was needing a form to get done to actually turn on some long-term care. And it was like some service work or something like that. And then I had something to prep for something that was a, you know, more of a revenue generator. And I was like, “Yeah, yeah, but I need to do this.” And he said, “Virginia, this person is in need and they need our help. And they became clients. We have to take care of our client like we have to take care of them, even if it doesn’t make us any money.” I said, “I know, I know. I’m going to get to it.” And he said, “No, this is priority because they need this.” And it was just the value of you treat everybody the same. And I knew that and I would like to think that I did but it is next level and that’s been ingrained.

And so, that is I feel like one of the cornerstones of what we do. And I feel like that’s how trust is just portrayed on to our clients is that they really feel that. We tell people it might not be the most efficient use of time sometimes, but we think it comes back tenfold because we might have a client that maybe doesn’t have a ton of money, but they tell their boss or they tell a coworker and they come and they have a lot of money. And it doesn’t matter to us if you have a lot of money. We want to help you just the same as best that we can but that’s something that truly I know my grandfather was the same way and my dad is certainly that way. And I’ve only been taught that way and that way only.

So, I think that being brought up like that and how that has been portrayed in even the smallest situations has been something that I think is a legacy that’s hard to carry on but that was super important. And so, it has been.

Brad Johnson: Well, let’s peel that back a little bit. So, a couple lessons there that I heard, Virginia, number one, the, “Hey, we take care of our clients, even if this is not technically generating revenue.” And then the lesson you shared from I’m assuming you were probably a high schooler when you were working like summers or something, where you are at reception and you see people come in nervous, “Hey, haven’t met with an advisor, not sure if everything’s going to be okay. Do we have enough?” All of this stuff probably circling through their head and then they go meet with your dad and they walk out laughing and like, “Oh, we’re going to be okay.” I always look at that, like, that’s like a doctor with good bedside manner.

You go in and you think you’ve got a terminal illness then like, “No. You just have tennis elbow. You’re fine. You’re going to be, you know, you’re okay.” And so, John, I want to go to you on this because I’ve found the older I get in this business, there’s almost like this timeless sage wisdom because this is a relationship business at the end of the day. And was there something or are there certain lessons or principles passed down from your grandfather that then went to your dad, that went to you, that went to Virginia that’s like these are non-negotiables or this is how you help people feel at ease or comfortable in these tough situations? Like, do you have any things that come to the top of your mind there?

John McNeil: Well, it was always indirectly not knowing that they were instilling this in me and Virginia, probably not knowing we were hopefully instilling it in her. It just gets back to do the right thing. And doing the right thing really makes you feel good. And Virginia now for the last 12, 13 years, we will go to the meetings with our clients together now and we’re laughing and joking and they really feel good. And if they feel good, we feel good. And it might not be a multimillion dollar client. It may be a $30,000 money market, but we don’t know. And my father told me this and grandfather told him, “You don’t know who those people know. And if they leave with confidence in you, trusting you,” Virginia, I mean, how many times we hear that in the meetings after they sign all these forms and basically giving us everything they say, “We really do trust you all. We feel comfortable with you all.”

And that I can’t tell you how that makes you feel and you get that every day. Coming up in the business, I was told no so many times. My father, when I first got in the business, he was paying me a stipend. I get paid $50 a week. I know it was 1979, 1980 but he and my brother parked in a parking lot right next to the building. We had the top floor was our office, and he wouldn’t let me park in the parking lot. I had to park on the street, which was a metered street, which you had a parking meter, and I had to put $0.25 in and $0.25 about 30 minutes. And he made me do that because every 30 minutes I’d have to get on the elevator, go down, put another quarter, and he said, “Get your elevator speech ready because that’s where you’re going to meet people.”

And sure enough, every 30 minutes I’ve been going down and more times than not, somebody would, the elevator would stop, door open, and then, “Who are you?” “I’m John McNeil from Mobile.” “You know, Charlie McNeil is your father.” “Yeah. I joined the firm.” And you know that would, “Well, you get to talk to my son. You have to. He just got married.” “Okay, I’ll give him a call.”

Brad Johnson: Wow.

Virginia O’Brien: Now, he talks to people on planes. And this is why I talk to people on planes because I saw him do it where those people sit next to you and you talk.

Brad Johnson: I’ve heard a lot of marketing strategies in my day. That might be the most unique. It’s like you’re going to go put a quarter in the meter every 30 minutes because… Do you remember any clients that you specifically picked up from an elevator conversation?

John McNeil: Yeah, I got a few. Yeah. There was a law firm like on the eighth floor. We were on the 16th floor. The top floor. And I knew this guy. He got on. He was a little bit younger than my dad, and he said that story. He said, “Well, I’m glad you joined your father. He’s a great guy. I’m a client here. Blah, blah, blah. I really like you to talk to my son. He just got married,” or is getting married. And so, I had a $25,000 whole life sale, boom, just like that.

Brad Johnson: Okay. That was a good ROI on that quarter spend.

John McNeil: Yeah.

Virginia O’Brien: Yeah. So, a quarter every 30 minutes though. That’s a pretty meter for…

Brad Johnson: Well, that paid for a few weeks of parking for sure.

Virginia O’Brien: Yeah.

John McNeil: Yeah.

Brad Johnson: That’s good. Any other? I feel like maybe just this is me getting old and having kids and trying to, like, take some of this wisdom and instill it in them. I feel like there’s these little inflection points in life when you’re kind of coming up and sometimes the lessons you’re learning them and you don’t realize in that moment until you look back a little bit. But are there any other lessons on your side, John, that great grandpa I guess it would have been your grandpa, Virginia’s great grandpa or your dad just kind of was like a way of doing business, a way of connecting, a way of building trust in a meeting? Like, any things like that that come to mind?

John McNeil: Yeah. He kept it because I would go on sales calls with him. Nowadays, we meet with 100% of our clients here in the office and we have since Virginia’s been in the business. Back then, we would go see the clients. So, they would say, “Let’s go. We got a meeting.” And I remember one of my, you know, I hadn’t been in business a month and we’re going to see one of his good clients and he said, “Get the folder.” His secretary got the folder ready. I didn’t know it had applications in there. And so, he said, “Just link to file, see what he’s already got.” We get there and we walk in and we sit down and I’m holding this file and my father and this guy are just talking, laughing about hunting and going fishing and this and that.

We were there about 45 minutes, and somewhere toward the end, daddy pulled out, grabbed the file and said, “Hey, I need you to sign this, about what we talked about.” And he signed it and we walked out and we get in the car and he goes, “You see what I did?” I said, “No, I have no idea what you did.” He said, “That guy just bought $1 million life insurance policy.” And I said, “You never talked about life insurance.” Yeah. Well, we played golf last weekend, and he said he needed another $1 million worth of life insurance.” And so, that’s what it was. I said, “You’d never showed him an illustration.” He said, “He doesn’t want to see an illustration. He just wanted $1 million worth of life insurance.”

He kept it lighthearted and that kind of, Virginia will attest to this when we get in here. Even with new clients, we try to keep it light hearted, entertaining, but educational and he can do both of those. It lets people feel at ease. When we sit down in our closing ratio, we’re very proud of that. If somebody comes in and sits down in here, we’re going to have 95% that will become clients because of the way we handle it, three meeting process, a lot of planners. Even with Triad they say, “You all meet three times?” “Yeah. And we don’t do anything. At the earliest, it’s the third meeting, sometimes a fourth meeting before we actually move forward but we’re going to move forward.”

And our clients appreciate what we do, the time we spend explaining what we’re doing, why we’re doing it, the purpose of this particular bucket of money, what the cost of that bucket of money is, if anything. And they say, you know, they come back for that 3rd meeting when we’re ready to do everything. They say, “You know, our current advisor, he’s never told us why we’re investing in this portfolio. He’s never talked to us about our income planning or our taxes or the legacy planning or insurance concept. All he wants to talk about is investments.” And that’s one of the feathers in our Dreamcatcher is investments. Yeah, that’s important. But probably, I would say 75% or 80% of all the planners out there or brokers out there, I don’t want to use that word, all they talk about is investments.

They don’t talk about why we’re investing in this, what the benefits to the beneficiary are, or what the costs are. People come in, bring their statement, and say, “What kind of fees you paying?” “Well, I don’t think we pay any fees,” and we go through it and say, “Well, yeah, you are. Here it is.” And they say, “Well they never told me I was paying the fee.” They just hadn’t looked at their statement but I think they really appreciate and that’s why our closing ratio is so high, because of the appreciation they have for us educating our clients. And we tell them in the front end that at the end of the second meeting, especially because the second meeting is where we roll out everything, our old plan, the Dreamcatcher.

It’s like feeding them with a firehose and they walk out going, “Wow. That’s a lot of information.” “That’s why we’re sending you home with all this so you can read it, go through it. You’re going to forget what we told you. You call us or we’ll go over it again in the third meeting,” and instill it in them. And it’s all visual, all color, and they really appreciate that. And they haven’t had anything like that with another advisor they’re coming from.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. I think that, right there, that concept, I’ve heard it said most, there’s such– I’m trying to think of the best way to say this. So, we talked football earlier. Football, we kind of know, like if you watch it a couple times on TV, if you’re American, you’ve grown up with it, you kind of know the rules to the game, right? And I feel like most retirees, unfortunately, they don’t always know the rules to the game because it’s kind of like they’ve only been taught a small portion. Like, the portfolio thing, it’s like, oh, I’ve got a financial plan. No, you have a basket of stocks that you are told as a financial plan, but you really just have a portfolio disguised as a financial plan, right?

And so, when you start to peel that back a little bit and say, well, what happens when you retire and the market drops 20%, 30%, and you don’t have a way to generate income because all of your income just tanked? And it’s like you’re educating people, like, oh, what? I’m sure you probably have some of these light bulb moments in conference terms, like what? That’s how this thing works. So, Virginia, what’s your side of that? Because I saw this evolution, and John, I’m taking nothing away from you, but it’s kind of this generational thing. And I’ve grown up in the business the last couple of decades, and this will always be a relationship business.

I’ve oftentimes seen kind of the older generation of financial advisors where you’re so charismatic, you can kind of just get away with kind of the story you said about your dad, like, oh, I’m talking golf, I’m talking hunting, fishing. Oh, by the way, here you go. And I’ve seen like, as Virginia came in telling the story about the CRM and like, hey, guys, we’re going to start running this like a business. You know what I mean?

And also, the professionalization of how you deliver the product because it wasn’t like your dad wasn’t solving needs. He was absolutely solving financial needs. But now, it’s almost like a more well-orchestrated road map to get from where they are to where they want to go and make sure all the boxes are checked. So, Virginia, maybe even go back to conference number one is you’re like learning this business like, my gosh, what’s going on here? What were your ahas and what were some of the systematic changes you saw to where your dad can sit down and say, hey, we’ve got to do all of this, not just a little piece that you’re currently doing now?

Virginia O’Brien: Yeah. So, I shadowed meetings for several months before I even announced in a meeting, mostly because when I got in this business on this set of things, I thought no client with money would want to hear what a little 23-year-old girl had to say. But I studied what my dad did very closely. And as partners, I wanted to see it from lots of different perspectives who are both retired now. But anyway, and so, one thing I saw was that the visuals that they were doing were fine, but they could be…

Brad Johnson: He was very kind there, John. Did you notice it’s odd?

Virginia O’Brien: Oh, and it did. That’s where I still, like, it’s still resonating from that old school thing, but just a little, like I’m an Excel person. I love things that make sense. I’ve always been a science and numbers person. And Excel makes sense to me. A format makes sense to me, and formatting something to where it’s not automatic by any means, but it is a little more scalable. That’s a Triad word that we love to use. And I like things pretty. I’m a girl. So, I’m a lot more attention to details than an old white man, right? So, I can kind of see that gap there.

And one thing that dad has always been is he has always been very good about simplifying things, in my opinion, like the best way. People are scared of things that they don’t understand because they don’t understand them. People are scared to look at their 401(k) statements because they don’t really know what they’re invested in or whatever that is. But if they understood, like the more the plan, all these kind of things, it’s not as scary.

So, the visual was good. It just needed some updating and some formatting and some things like that, some logos, all that kind of stuff. And so, the way we sort of forged into that was, I said, I think some clients get lost the most with where they are now and where we’re presenting, where we’re proposing that we take them. So, I think we need a visual of that, a literal map of here is this bucket, here is this million-dollar 401(k), and we’re proposing that we actually break it into three buckets. And these always refer to people’s different accounts as buckets of money, which we still use. We love that term.

So, that’s hard for them to comprehend visually, like, okay, wait, where did that bucket come from again? Oh, that came from your 401(k). Oh, yeah. So, one thing we implemented was what we call the reallocation snapshot. And it is literally just, here are all the accounts, like buckets, like literal buckets, color-coded between what’s qualified, what’s not qualified, and then an arrow that there’s like, and this is where it’s going to go. And if it’s a big bucket that’s going to break into three buckets, here’s the three arrows coming out of that, and this is where it’s going to boom, boom, boom.

So, really taking that mapping part and the visualization part and then into that next stage of the income part was really big because it was a big aha for us, I think, because people really got it. And these are really smart people. It’s not like they were not intelligent. It’s just confusing if you don’t look at it every day. And you probably know this, Brad, most people don’t really know what they have until they sit down there, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I’ve got that 401(k) that’s still at TIAA from 20 years ago and, oh, yeah, I’ll be eligible for this pension and I think I got this letter that says they’ll pay me $300,000 if I want. I mean they’re like, oh, yeah, there’s always that stuff that kind of comes up.

So, when we break it down, they’re like, wow, okay. And then we can show them how we’re going to turn all these buckets into paychecks at whatever future gate. It’s pretty satisfying to them. So, one thing that I’ve kind of, I think, brought to the table on that was just a very concise way to be able to scale it for everybody, but also to simplify our process behind the scenes because there are illustrations that go with that and then portfolio analysis that go with that and all those other things.

But the real meat and bones of it, like a role, like simple part to understanding is very easy to understand. And we have all the supporting back document. But I think just making it simple and making it visually pleasing, and it’s on one page, you can like look at it and see the next 35 years and where everything is going to come from and how much income you’re going to have, which is really great. And then we we bring in all the other aspects of it, like the equity side. I do all the equity side of things. And I want to carve out some time for that because I’ve got some really passionate things about that side.

But we’ve got a really, I think, easy system. We don’t try to complicate things. And this industry is very complicated, and people are kind of tired of people using big words that they have to pretend that they understand. People will be like, oh, yeah, I’m moderately aggressive. And we’re like, okay, great. Well, we’re going to do that. Like, that’s our favorite thing to say, like, oh, I’m…

Brad Johnson: People have actually said that. That’s hilarious.

Virginia O’Brien: Oh, all the time, because before we make them take a test…

Brad Johnson: So, you like to get in fights at bars, or what’s moderately aggressive here?

Virginia O’Brien: And so, we’re like, okay, well, if you’re moderately aggressive, then your risk number is 56. And we’re like, if you’re a 56, like this is– and they’re like, oh, no, I don’t know about that. Right. You don’t really know what you are because somebody, when you were 35 and you’re getting into your 401(k) and told you, you should be moderately aggressive and you just sort of stuck with it. So, it’s not that they are unintelligent, but people have just always used these sort of cryptic words and…

Brad Johnson: What I’ve seen, Virginia, to echo what you’re saying is we have the curse of knowledge because you live it and breathe it and do it every day. Like, think of, John, at this stage in your career, the hundreds, probably thousands of retirees that you’ve helped and you’ve seen these stories play out good, bad, and ugly. And so, there’s this curse of knowledge that oftentimes, I see it so often you’re just talking right over somebody’s head and they don’t want to pretend like they don’t know what you’re talking about. So, they just kind of nod and then they leave the advisor’s office that talks like that and never go back. Oh, yeah, yeah, we decided to go a different direction.

And there was a business concept. I think the first place I heard it was from Tony Robbins back in the day. And he said the very best in the world at what they do, regardless of industry, are masters of simplifying the complex. And what you did in that analogy is you took their version of a financial junk drawer, the kitchen junk drawer with the stuff that’s been accumulated. And you said, “Hey, I’m a professional organizer.” Let’s kind of sort this out so you actually understand what’s in here, how it works, what use we need to do. I mean, there are legit professional organizers. We hired them one time at our house and it’s like our garage was a mess with kids’ toys. And then, we look up and everything’s in shelves and organized and labeled. We’re like, “This is beautiful. What peace of mind we have now.” That’s basically what you’re doing financially at the end of the day.

Virginia O’Brien: Right, yeah. It’s an important piece, and people really like that because you do kind of– I can only imagine Sara, like, open the garage door and she’s like, I don’t have anxiety of it because you’re now, it just is another weight lifted.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. Okay, so I asked your permission before we went live, but you sent, Virginia, one of– John, you’re like this, too. You’re very grateful people. I love to surround myself with people that just are good humans that value people that help them. Like, who doesn’t like that, right? And Virginia, you sent a message to our team. And so, you gave me permission to read it, but I know it made Sara’s day that– so she’s the president of Triad Wealth. And you all were kind enough to be one of the founding members of Triad Wealth. So, thank you. I’ve told you this before, but I’ll do it publicly now on a podcast. So, thank you for the trust you put in us and also, Jenny sent me a message. I know she helped tremendously with the onboarding side, but this was the message you sent. You said, and Lyndsy was who you mentioned here, who’s also on the wealth side.

I didn’t realize this until Lyndsy pointed it out, but we are about to surpass 50 million, 50 million of AUM. I’ve been with Triad Wealth for seven months after the TOA from the client we signed on this afternoon, who, by the way, has three mil in commercial real estate looking for tax solutions. Thumbs up, that’s looking good. Able to 1031. We will have just over 50 million AUM. We started it 40 mil in February. So, as we record right now, we’re September 6th of 2024. This was 40 mil in February of 2024 as an IAR.

So, in seven months, we launched our own RIA, repapered to new custodian, grew our net AUM by 20%, and four people total currently on the team. Don’t worry, we’re scaling and meeting with Bobbie to talk about our next hire. But this growth would not have even been imaginable without Triad Wealth, much less attainable. Triad Wealth has been a game changer. You all are awesome. Thanks for everything.

So, first off, thanks for just being grateful humans. That’s doing business, doing life. Like as we say, do business with people you want to do life with. But I’m not trying to turn this into a Triad commercial. That’s not the intent. What I want to take are what made that possible or so many times, I hear firms in your situation, it’s like, oh, okay, we need to go from IAR to RIA. What a pain in the butt. Have to do all this repapering. And it’s always like pushing this further down the road and someday, I’ll get to it. What advice would you give to firms like that? What was the stuff going in through your head before the change and how it actually played out? Like, any advice if you’re talking to yourself seven, eight, nine months ago that you’d share now?

Virginia O’Brien: So, I did a lot of research on this. And full disclosure, when Dad got a call from a guy named Jordan.

Brad Johnson: Oh, Jordan.

Virginia O’Brien: In May of 2023, dad’s like, yeah, man, like, let’s set up a call. Sounds good. Roll Tide!” And he’s like, puts his call on my calendar and it’s like, call with Jordan, that’s it. And I’m like, “Dad, what is this?” And he’s like, “Oh, some FMO.” And I was like, “What was it?” He’s like, “Call him and look at my notes.” And he was like, “Triad.”

And Brad, we’ve known you for a long time. And I followed your cryptic journey and the afterlife of our old world. And I said, “Triad,” I said, “I’m pretty sure Brad has been like– I’m pretty sure he’s tagged some stuff on social media on this.” And so, I was like, “That’s Brad’s company.” Dad was like, “He didn’t say anything about Brad.” He was like, Brad. And I was like, “No, we can take this call because we know Brad, we love Brad. We’re going to take this stuff.” I was like, “This is it.”

And so, we got on a call with Jordan and we were talking about AUM and I was like, I’m in the process of going from IAR to RIA. I just need to kind of figure out where I’m going to settle. And he was like, “Well, we have a wealth team. I’ll get you in touch with them.” And so, I got in touch them because I was going to be going to another FMO born-type wealth temp service.

Brad Johnson: Yeah, yeah.

Virginia O’Brien: And I was very hesitant because I was at an FMO-born basically temp service, but I really didn’t have a choice because I knew that I had to make a change. Like, I knew I had to go RIA. It was like, really the only thing holding me back. And I knew that it would be better for my clients, like that was the driving force. And I would say the one thing I will tell people that are still IARs, I don’t care if you have 10 million. I don’t care if you have 110 million. Just go RIA because at the end of the day, when you look at all of it, it’s going to be better for you. But more importantly, what really kept me drawn because I was like, I’ll just suffer through it. Like, I can just whatever. It’s going to be better for your clients. It just is. And I could go into a whole three-hour speech on that, but it really, when you get down to it.

And so, I had a call and had to call Brent, CIO, who is amazing and super smart. And I was like, okay, this guy is not an FMO guy. This guy’s a wealth management guy. He doesn’t even really, like you can ask Brad today, like, I don’t really understand what a fixed indexed annuity is. And I love that because I’m like, they need to be separate worlds, but for to know that like they’re two separate things, as you know.

And I was like, “Huh.” That’s interesting that this guy is like, doesn’t really know what FIA is because he is so school’s trained, experienced on the wealth management side. And that to me was the first green flag for Triad Wealth because I was like, they’re actually bringing in people that are in wealth management. And that’s probably a weird concept for you, Brad, because you’re like that, but it is something that we want to be the best in everything that we do. And in order to be the best at wealth management, we need those big guns on the wealth management side.

And so, as they started to bring their team, when I was talking to them, Triad Wealth did not have any members yet, like they would get, but this was a while ago. And after two calls, I was like, “Yeah, we’re going to go with them, dad, because I’m moving to RIA.” He was like, “Really?” I was like, “Yeah, we’re going with it.” And then we started talking. After the third time dad and I talked about, yep, got it. Dad was, wait, they don’t trade yet. There was nothing there.

Brad Johnson: Hey, like I said, you were a founding member.

Virginia O’Brien: And I was like, yeah, and dad was like, Virginia…

Brad Johnson: Hey, disclosure for those listening in, we do trade now.

Virginia O’Brien: This was a long time ago. But I just mean, like, I was like, yeah, when I was talking to the team then, it was so evident. And Sara was helping me through all the legal, everything like that. And it was not just some shoot from the hip. She took a night course at law school kind of thing. It was like, that is what she specialized in. And she was digging in deep, deep, deep to everything.

And then, having that come onboard, Jenny, with the transition, I mean, she was with me. We were emailing at all hours, getting that craps, doing that. Jenny and her team came down to Mobile and spent days in the office, making sure we were extracting every single bit of information to Triad to help make this transition smoother, really, like boots on the ground. And then, as we transitioned, as we pulled the trigger, because we were repapering to a new custodian, which is also in itself just ripping off the Band-Aid. And oh, by the way, we launched the beginning of February, and the second week of March, we moved office buildings, so…

Brad Johnson: Just to throw a little curveball in there, right?

Virginia O’Brien: At one point, he was like, it was a Friday. And he goes to say, “I might not come to work on Monday or ever again,” because…

Brad Johnson: Your dad almost retired during those processes that way out there.

Virginia O’Brien: He was like, “You’re killing me.” And I was like, “Incredible, Dad. You got it. Come on.” And it was nothing glorified. You can ask, I mean, I was losing hair. I was just stressed because you don’t want anything to go wrong for your clients. You don’t want your clients to be confused or not understand. And so, we were really trying to be on the forefront of that, which Triad Wealth really helped us with on that.

But I can’t say enough about the team as we’ve onboarded, as we have come full circle on this. Like, let me tell you just this side story, which you know about now, Brad, I think, but during this, our CRM was how it was set up with because we were on IAR, it was underneath our old RIA suite. And the wealth team, Jenny on the wealth team was very specific with our CRM system provider on how this would work and how it would just release under Triad and nothing would be lost because we are, what Lyndsy on the wealth team calls, a super– insert the name of our, I don’t want to get anybody in trouble, but our CRM system user. We use that system to the fullest of its capability and not everybody does. Most people don’t. We use it for imaging for the CRM, for the email, like for calendar, even our cal…

Brad Johnson: And your CRM is Redtail. Is that correct?

Virginia O’Brien: Yeah, it is. And it’s a success story, like personally, at the end of that, we’ve forced some signatures or forced some relationships, I should say. And so, this person at Redtail, Jenny sends, like we’ve double, triple, quadruple-checks this and basically, all Redtail is going to do is push a button and we’re going to be good. So, this person pushes the wrong button at Redtail and it cannot be reversed. And we are locked out of our Redtail.

John McNeil: We lost everything, our calendar.

Virginia O’Brien: We’re locked out.

Brad Johnson: How did I not know this story? Wow.

Virginia O’Brien: Well, because that should be a testament to your team, like to the wealth team. But when I tell you that, like, we didn’t know who was walking in the door, we didn’t know, we couldn’t look up a policy number, we couldn’t look up phone number. I mean, we lost everything. So, I’m freaking out. I’m like, “Oh, Jenny, what are we going to do?” And she was like, “What in the world?”

And so, she’s on the phone. Lyndsy used to work at Orion, had a lot of contacts there. Orion is, of course, the mother company of Redtail. And this is at 4:30 in the afternoon. So, she gets on the phone and she is like, “We’re getting this back.” The next day, they’re like, “We can’t tell you anything. It’s going to be weeks. It’s going to take us two weeks.” And I was like, “This is not acceptable.” Three days, like three hours into that second day with nothing, I get the call from the State of Alabama and they’re like, “Hey, welcome to– I’m having your NRA, your first audit setup for a week and a half from now. We’ll be there on this.” And I’m about to cry because I’m like, I don’t know. I think I’m surprised I didn’t throw up. And they’re already telling, Redtail’s like, we’ll try to get it back to you in two or three weeks. And I was like, “You don’t understand.”

So, I’m texting Lyndsy. And Lyndsy is like, “I will drive down to the home office and I will beat down the doors. Don’t you worry.” I mean, Lyndsy is texting people at charity dinners, like CEOs present. I mean, she is escalating, escalating, escalating, escalating. And the next morning, we’re on a Zoom call. She’s on it with us. And this guy in a hoodie at 7:30 a.m. is like, “Look, guys, we’re trying to figure out what to do. I’m sorry.” And I was like, “Look, I know that this wasn’t intentional, all these things.”

Anyway, long story short, we get it. Lyndsy gets it all. Lyndsy was the wand waver in that. She got it all back within days. And that wasn’t even her avenue, like, I didn’t have to do anything with that. It was something that they were like, “We can help. We will be here every step of the way, no matter what it is.” And to me, that kind of thing is just so invaluable.

But everything that has done with the growth of everything and scaling it, and I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been on a weekly call with them. And I’m telling them like a struggle that we have are like, oh, in the future, you all going to keep doing this way or this way and you’re like, we’ll get back to you on that. And then maybe two to three weeks later, they’re like, “Guess what, Virginia? We’re rolling out this way, and thanks so much for the input. And this is going to, like, we’re actually going to implement this because you said this X, Y, Z.” And I’m like, “I’m just a little peanut down here in Alabama.” And I just, you feel seen and heard that it’s your– and so, I just can’t tell you how many times that that’s happened with the wealth team and how they are just so invested in our business the way we do business. And truly, how that is going to play out. And then also, how innovative they are and how innovative the new platforms that are rolling out are and the tax efficient strategies and this whole new software of that. And it’s just been amazing and awesome and so innovative.

And I’ve actually talked to a few other members that had questions or are thinking about becoming RIAs from IARs or maybe looking for a new temp. And I was on a call this week actually, as we record this, with another member. And I was like, we had chit-chatted briefly at an experience, and he was like, “I want to hear more about the wealth. I’ve been talking with the– can I get your feedback on that?” Like, “I’m going to shoot you an email, we’re going to get on a Zoom.”

So, we did. And I was like, “Look, this is what we did. You read the whole stats of how we’ve grown and all that we did in seven months. And we’re two advisors and two and a half staff. We did not hire one person during this whole transition of that.” That was a lot of heavy lifting, a lot of heavy lifting. And that was only made possible because of Triad coming in and helping us be so innovative and lifting a lot of the work, a lot of the weight, and helping us implement more efficient strategies for that.

The other thing that I will say about Triad Wealth, and this is a little nugget for you too, Brad, because I feel like group on the insurance world is that you all really fixed people to run that that are not on the insurance side. And I know that that might sound weird coming from a holistic, like we use insurance products in our planning very much, so it’s very much like sort of the foundation of where our practice even came from. But in order to go compete with those really high-level money managers, we need really high-level money management as well on the equity side, and that’s what is over at Triad Wealth. And it is a true, complete, extremely innovative and extremely competitive platforms and sleeves and things like that.

And I think that you all have done a really good job of staying out of the way of that in a good way, not signed to be a– I hate using the word FMO when I’m talking about Triad, but just as a generality, like on that side of it, not being an FMO-born wealth management team. And when I was talking to this advisor who’s very much so like planning first before product, like we are, he was like, that is so great to hear because I wondered about that. And I was like, no, it is truly, like it is truly that. And I just think that that speaks volumes.

And so, I will say, this is like I get nothing from this. This is not an ad for it. But I would say to anybody that is already in RIA that is just wanting to explore what they have, what Triad Wealth has, it’s amazing. And I would say, especially, if you feel like you’re not as competitive with models of where you are now, you got to check it out. I mean, it’s incredible.

So, I can’t say enough about the team that Triad Wealth is building. The level of care that they have for us as people and us as a business and how they can help our business, not just grow AUM, like that’s just a product of helping us. But it’s truly something super special, much like it is on the regular Triad Partners side. And you have done a really good job of staying out of the way and let it be a real– well, actually, a real competitive wealth management firm. And I think, if you think about that, you’re like, oh, okay, now that does make sense. You know what I mean?

Brad Johnson: Well, Virginia, I resist none of that. In fact, I embrace everything you just said. There’s something that happens in the world of finance that’s unfortunate. And I’ve seen it play out on the advisor side. I’ve seen it play out on the FMO side, the brokerage side, the RIA side. It’s basically a disease that runs rampant in our industry and it’s hubris and it’s ego that as these companies grow, all of a sudden, they’re the smartest people in the room.

Virginia O’Brien: That’s right.

Brad Johnson: And I am not throwing stones at anybody specifically. It’s more of an industry-wide observation where if I was to thank Brad, the guy that grew up very much in insurance distribution is the guy that should now, as soon as we open up an RIA, walk across the hallway and be the one that’s going to know what’s up over there or what happens a lot in our space, different team members, oh, they were the insurance guy one day, then they flip over their hat. Now, they’re the wealth management person tomorrow. Those are two very different businesses.

And Shawn and I both have always been very aligned on this is hire the smartest, best, most incredible talent. We say at Triad, A players only, and we feel very humbled that talent like Sara, Jenny, Brent, Lyndsy, all the names and many more that you haven’t named have joined us and believe in the mission that we’re on collectively at Triad. And it’s cool to hear how that’s showing up on your side. And so, I love that.

And one thing I want to hit, I’m going to tie it back to the story your dad told you. It was, I heard it said once, if you truly want to develop relationships in life, it’s not how you show up during the good times. It’s how you show up during the bad times, the rough times, the bad days, and that day where you were torn when you just got in the business of, oh, here’s the new sale over here, or here’s the existing client that really needs help, and your dad said, this one goes to the top of the pile because that’s the most important thing for the day, even if we don’t make money. It was so cool. That’s exactly where I was tying back when you were telling the story about Lyndsy.

It’s member obsession. You’ve got to be member obsessed. And then we talk about it all the time. And that was a day, like, if you’re on the verge of tears, life was throwing up which is a rough day, and I feel really proud of the team, that they were like, we’re not taking no for an answer. We’re elevating this until this gets handled. Even though it wasn’t a problem we created or you created, it was just part of the transition experience.

Virginia O’Brien: Yeah. And not just how you start either. I remember a day, this was probably like three weeks after that. You don’t even know about that. It didn’t, because your team that you hired took care of it, which is amazing. And I believe Lyndsy wholeheartedly, when she was like, “Virginia, if this is not fixed, I’m getting in my car in a minute.”

Brad Johnson: 100% sure.

Virginia O’Brien: And I will beat down that door. And I was like, I will fly up there, beat it down with you, but you don’t have to because I knew she would do it for me. They were going to that for me. But you gave me a call three weeks later, left me a voicemail, and you were like, “Hey, what do you need?” I just had a quick chat with Jenny. She was like, things are going great, but I know y’all are overwhelmed because it is such a big undertaking. Like, what do you need? And I was like this and you said, you’re like, “Anything you need, we’re here to support y’all.” And I got chills thinking about it because it was like a true, genuine, like, we’re here to help you guys, no matter what. And it doesn’t mean like, we’re here just to process your apps and, like, get up and do it. It’s not that. You all do that, but it’s not that. It is truly caring for us and pouring into us to make us smarter and more efficient and better equipped. It’s been a total game changer on both sides.

But yeah, it was Triad Wealth, that scope of growth to me is something I think is– I’m super proud of it. I’m very proud of it. And every response I got back from anybody I sent it to on the Triad Wealth team, they were like, “Virginia, that’s all you. That’s all you.” And I’m like, “No, it is not. Don’t sell yourself short. I would be lost without my– look, I would have no Redtail contacts right now if it wasn’t for you guys.” But it was…

John McNeil: And it was you and just Triad Wealth, Triad, it’s…

Virginia O’Brien: Yeah, it’s the whole team. Yeah, the whole team.

John McNeil: Anybody on the annuity side.

Virginia O’Brien: Oh, tell the story real quick. I know we’re hitting time, but tell the story about Mark. We went to this experience with F&G. We had this aha moment. We needed the illustration.

John McNeil: No, I had to have– this guy’s coming in 45 minutes.

Virginia O’Brien: No, no, no. It was like 14 minutes.

John McNeil: Mark answered the phone, Yeah, Mark answered the phone. And I said, “Hey, y’all top but this thing in New York. It’s F&G and it’s got this. And I’ve got an 80-year-old.”

Virginia O’Brien: And our whole planning for it, the guy looks so young that in my head, I was like, yeah, yeah, he’s 70.

John McNeil: So, anyway, I told Mark, I said, I need an illustration. We don’t need to use illustration. I said, I only know anything about the product. Within five minutes, I already had it. It’s on this computer here and I popped up the illustration on the screen behind me, and his wife, we had a different company, but he said, this is great. I like it.

Virginia O’Brien: And then, dad was like, I’m so sorry, it’s the last minute. We didn’t, because he was all like this, they must drink out of the fountain of youth in that family. But it was so quick. It’s like boom, like, Mark had the illustration. He’s copying new business, which I love that Courtney, his wife, was like, here’s that. Like, here’s this, here’s that. Here you go. What do you need? And everybody, it was just like a team effort. And it is always like that at Triad. We didn’t know, we were getting into that random calendar appointment back…

Brad Johnson: All of this is Jordan’s fault, full circle.

Virginia O’Brien: All Jordan. And I’m so glad we were friends on social media because I was like that, I’m too busy to take a call, right? Because everybody, it’s sort of like getting in the gatekeeper kind of thing. But I was like, oh, this is Brad. And dad was like, no way. You didn’t even mention Brad. You think he’d, like, mentioned Brad’s name? And I was like, leave Brad…

Brad Johnson: He didn’t know. He didn’t know what my reputation was out there. He’s like, I may not be different.

Virginia O’Brien: And then he gets on the next down. He’s like, yeah, so I talked to Brad. He said, you all are good folks. And we were like…

Brad Johnson: That’s an understatement.

John McNeil: Brad, now, a trip down memory lane, thank you for letting us joining you today.

Virginia O’Brien: But hey, you’ve been to an Alabama game. You know the next thing you have to come to, right?

Brad Johnson: Okay, wait.

Virginia O’Brien: Mardi Gras.

Brad Johnson: Mardi Gras is next. I’ve been to New Orleans, non-Mardi Gras. It’s already wild enough when it’s not Mardi Gras.

Virginia O’Brien: No, no, no, no.

Brad Johnson: Hold up. Are we talking like Mobile has a version of Mardi Gras that I need to experience?

John McNeil: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Mardi Gras…

Virginia O’Brien: Brad, Brad, Brad, all right, next topic…

Brad Johnson: Sorry. That was a dumb Kansas comment. Sorry, this is disclaimer.

Virginia O’Brien: Mobile is the birthplace of Mardi Gras in the United States.

Brad Johnson: I did not know that.

John McNeil: We had it for years before New Orleans did.

Virginia O’Brien: And we do it better. And we are way more family friendly. And it’s way safer here. And we throw MoonPies and peanuts. We don’t just throw beef. We don’t discard trinkets. New Orleans can’t throw food. We throw food. Not food, but, you know. So, this is an invitation.

Brad Johnson: Well, we’ll put it on the calendar.

Virginia O’Brien: Sarah, Brent, Braun, Nash, and Nellie, it usually is right before softball season kicks up. So, I think this year, it’s like the first week of March. So, maybe it is during that, this time, but it’s always 40 days before Ash Wednesday or Fat Tuesday is 40 days before Easter.

John McNeil: Not counting Sundays.

Virginia O’Brien: Yeah, actually. So, yeah, anyway, that’s the next thing on the list.

Brad Johnson: Well, hey, right now, as soon as we get down, I’m going on a little lunch date with my wife, so I’ll bring it up right now. Let’s get it on the calendar.

Virginia O’Brien: There you go, yeah. And then Sarah and I can exchange softball tips because I was just promoted to not assistant coach, but head coach of the softball team, the pro team. So, I’m going to need some pointers from Sarah.

Brad Johnson: Okay. Well, she’s a head volleyball coach. She’s right in the middle of it right now. So, a lot of those coaching principles apply to different sports, so she can share the good, bad, and ugly there. Well, hey, as we wrap, I want to ask you all one final question here. And what’s really fun, you guys are just so fun. Like, the energy is contagious and that’s what makes it so fun to work with you all.

And by the way, like, and you’re growing an amazing business. And what I’m excited is we talked a lot about that Triad Wealth transition. You all have set up the foundation for the future of the fourth-generation business, maybe the fifth. You’ve got a couple of kiddos, Virginia. Start bringing them in early. And so, I’m really excited for what’s ahead for you. So, this is the Do Business, Do Life podcast. You all know plenty about that. You’ve been to already quite a few Triad experiences. Your dad’s rocking the shoes. He showed me before we went live here. And so, I would love to hear each of your definitions on what does do business, do life mean to you.

John McNeil: Well, we didn’t talk about it first, but just the onboarding with Triad and getting our mission statement, our launch, everything. We never have in 103 years been forced to figure out who we were. And that’s when it occurred. But to come up with one word to describe our journey, it’s kind of tough to do. The whole thing, mainly, it’s the people starting with you, but your whole team has just been so fun to be around and it’s very enlightening. We really appreciate everything y’all have done.

Brad Johnson: Thanks, John. Likewise.

Virginia O’Brien: I would say the definition of Do Business, Do Life is really just, one, dad’s always said this, and some days, you don’t feel this way maybe necessarily, but to wake up and kind of look at the day of you get to do something, you know that mindset of that. And getting to do the business and getting to do the life part, it’s something that you guys have really brought to life. And I would say that it has spilled over into both of our personal lives as far as that’s concerned and into our whole family’s of that, which is something that’s so cool because you started this mission to do that.

And I’ve heard you talk a lot about why you started the mission and when you took a really big step back from your career because you wanted to change and shake up the industry and I think that that’s really transformed and I think that that’s a testament to all that. You and Shawn both really dug down deep into because I’m sure there were days that you woke up when you were building this company that you were like, I really don’t want to go make hard decisions today.

So, it might not be every day that you’re like dying to go to work, but to be able to look back or to look at your big picture and say that people are benefiting from what you’re doing and being able to go live their lives because of what you do better, to me, that applies to what Triad is doing as far as like the advisors are concerned and then as far as what the advisors are doing, like we’re able to do our business in a way that enables our clients to really go do life and us to go do life. It provides a great life for us. But to me, those are really the best stories to me. We get that. And so, that’s really what it means for me. But it’s truly been brought to light so much just being with Triad for however long, I think 14 months as we recorded this, something like that.

Brad Johnson: Yeah, it feels like so much longer because we obviously knew each other before, so it was kind of like we jumped right back in where we left off. But I’ll tell you what was really rewarding to me that when I saw, I mean, when we were out in Amelia Island and you all were like basically the first crew that I rolled up to right as I got on the resort. And it was cool because you were definitely doing life, you had a fruity drink in your hand. I think the two kids were– I think they were in the pool or on their way to the pool, yeah.

And what was cool about it, I could have been walking up to a family vacation, but it was the perfect combination. It was like, hey, we’re doing business together. We’re doing life together. I think your son made, speaking of Mark Harper, like, best friends with Mark and Courtney’s son. And they were like arms around each other the whole time. And so, it’s kind of a little bit of what we dreamed might be possible. And it’s been so cool to see it start to become a reality.

And if the work that Triad does obviously helps the business, but if that can also enhance the life and create some memories over the next, hopefully, 10, 20, 30 years, however long John wants to keep doing it, that’s super rewarding to me. And that was a lot of fun. So, I appreciate you hearing that.

Virginia O’Brien: Yeah. And I think one thing, too, I remember Amelia Island, I think I’ll never forget this memory is the storm rolled, it was like a biblical storm that rolled in. Like, some I looked up, they were like, wow, that looks biblical. It was just this cloud of doom, trying to rain on our parade. We moved into the conference room, had this, like, Rener Gracie was like childcare to the next level, getting all 102 kids.

Brad Johnson: He had the biggest game of Simon Says going I’ve ever seen in my life with all the kids to keep them in line.

Virginia O’Brien: I’ve never seen that wide range of age group so captivate all the things and then to have the dance party for however long. And then there was one point when like me, I’m holding Neillie, we’re dancing. Charlie’s on Grey’s shoulders. Jack is on Mark’s shoulders. Everybody’s at– you and Nellie are dancing and we’re just– and then, fast forward, 20 minutes later, we’re having this intimate acoustic concert with Niko Moon, and my kids are sitting literally on an Indian style on the stage, just looking up, jamming all of the songs, giving high fives. I mean, not the concert that was planned by any means, but I think you’ve said this, literally, you couldn’t have planned something that awesome.

Brad Johnson: Yeah, it was magical.

So, anyway, now, all we talk about is our whole, mom, dad, Grey, and I have already booked our Palm Springs tickets and looking forward to the next summer. The kids are already asking where the next Triad trip is. So, yeah, we’re…

Brad Johnson: Awesome.

Virginia O’Brien: We’re all in. It’s just…

Brad Johnson: Well, I just did a meeting on Launch Palm Springs yesterday and we’ve got a few things up our sleeve that I think you all will have a good time doing. So, we’ll leave it at that. We’ll leave it mysterious, but more to come on that.

Virginia O’Brien: All right. Well, thanks so much, Brad. It’s been super fun.

Brad Johnson: Yeah, Happy Friday. Have an awesome weekend. Bam just want to know. Obviously, you trashed whatever team that you played week one. And Chiefs want to know, barely.

Virginia O’Brien: We’ll try.

Brad Johnson: So, life is good. All right. Well, love the conversation. Have a great weekend.

Virginia O’Brien: You, too.

Brad Johnson: See y’all. Bye.