Brad Johnson: Welcome back to another episode of Do Business. Do Life. We’ve got Max Major here with us today. Welcome to the show, Max.
Max Major: How’s it going?
Brad Johnson: Is that required as a magician? You got to make sure?
Max Major: I don’t know. I was trying to do something magician-y. We should run it back. I’ll do something better next time.
Brad Johnson: The sleeves are up, so we’re good. You’re not hiding anything there.
Max Major: Nothing to hide.
Brad Johnson: Well, we have the pleasure that the whole Triad community, you– I would say entertained, but it was a lot more than that. Awards night, we just did our big kickoff experience of the year out in Tucson, our launch experience, and you helped do some entertaining the night of the award ceremony. And I will say we still have members of our community that are a little messed up. They’re like, they’re still not sure exactly how you pulled off, which you pulled off.
So, I know we’re going to get into, what actually is a magician, a mentalist, what’s the difference? Probably entertain here a little bit, but also, what I love is it’s way deeper than that. You talk a ton about mindset. You talk about how to read the room, all things that are really important to advisors. So, I’m excited to dive in here today. So, maybe we just kick it off, Max. Magician, mentalist, what’s the difference?
Max Major: So, what I do is really, it’s about the mind, and I think that could lead to a fun conversation as well. I’m happy to dive into how the mind can be influenced, also how to influence yourself. But as a mentalist, my job is to really just kind of mess with people’s heads using this collection of skills that I have. I was a magician probably from age 14 to about 19. You learn a lot about psychology. You learn a lot about how the mind works.
I learned hypnosis when I was 18, so that’s a big tool in my tool bag is how to use your words to shape people’s reality. Sometimes you think of hypnosis as like the person on stage who suddenly quacks like a duck. But also, it has really powerful therapeutic uses as well. My dad was actually hypnotized to quit smoking when I was 18 years old. That was my introduction to it. And I thought, whoa, that’s like real magic. That’s like a real superpower.
So, I learned hypnosis, and then I got interested in how the mind could be influenced. How does this work? What is the mechanism here? I started studying body language, other tools of influence, NLP, memory systems, all of these fun skills. When you throw them in a pot and you stir that up, it comes out looking a lot like mind reading. And that’s what I do on stages all around the world. I had the chance to perform for your group, and also to kind of integrate a bit of a message just about how your thoughts really do affect your reality.
So, all that to say, I call myself a mind hacker. Some people refer to it as a mentalist. It’s like magic without props. It’s like I work with people instead of props. But you and I are obviously in different locations right now, so I thought it might be a fun challenge for me to actually try to influence you through the screen because obviously, I’m not there, which is kind of part of what I rely on. So, if you’re down for it, I’d love to just try a quick thing, just sort of through the screen.
Brad Johnson: Let’s do it. This will be a first on the show, so I’m good.
Max Major: Okay. All right, all right. Here’s, we’re going to do, something really simple just to see if you and I can get dialed in, and then if that works, I’ll take it to another level. Okay? I’m going to write you a secret note. All right. I’m not going to show it to you. It’s something that I think when I do show it to you though in a minute, it’ll actually mean something to you. Let me get this here, something like that. Great.
Okay, here’s what I want you to do. I want you to, I’m going to put my pen down so I can’t change my mind. I want you to try to be random, okay? Name a number from 10 to 100, a two-digit number. What number pops into your head right now? What number?
Brad Johnson: Right out loud? Just throw it out there.
Max Major: Two-digit number off the top of the head. What comes into your mind?
Brad Johnson: 47.
Max Major: 47. Why 47? It’s not like your birthday or something. Is it…
Brad Johnson: Random.
Max Major: It’s totally random, because here’s what I want you to see. I wrote down this, if we can get the camera to focus on that.
Brad Johnson: What in the world?
Max Major: It says, Brad will say 47.
Brad Johnson: Okay. So, did you program that into my mind?
Max Major: That’s the moment where you’re supposed to like, run off the podcast set, screaming.
Brad Johnson: Well, keep in mind I’ve seen an hour of this, so I fully expected it to be whatever I said because, I mean, you were calling out dice rolls and Wikipedia links in front of me and a group of people and just blowing our minds, so yeah.
Max Major: Well, then maybe for you, I have to take it to the next level because you’ve seen me before, so maybe it’s a good number, not enough to impress you. So, I’m going to take that as a challenge, Brad.
Brad Johnson: Well, keep in mind, I watched you have Scott Hanson or emcee randomly type in numbers into a calculator. And the whole audience was like, “How did he do that?”
Max Major: Okay. Well, no numbers. All right? Let’s go pure imagination. Okay, Brad, look, a number is one thing, okay? But you’ve seen me perform before, so you’re not that impressed. So, let’s take it to the next level. I got a prediction here. It’s something that I wrote down that I think that will mean something to you when I show it to you in just a little bit. Actually, let me get my tape if I don’t have it. Okay?
Brad Johnson: Being a guy that does this for a living, you just have to like, go buy the most random stuff at the stores.
Max Major: I know. I got my desk full here. I got– this is actually really important. I can tell that the thing with the number that I did with you, having seen me a few times, I’m going to have to raise the bar. So, this is my prediction for today and I’m going to put it somewhere, Brad, that I can’t change my mind. Okay? Get a little duct tape on here so that you know that it’s secure and I can’t back out. Bear with me one second. I’m going to put this somewhere you can keep your eye on it.
Okay. I want you to imagine that you have a magic wand and you can wave that magic wand, and your dream guest will appear in this seat after me, not in the middle of my interview. Okay? Your bucket list guest, who is your bucket list guest that you’d like to have on the podcast? Maybe something you’ve never said before. Maybe something that even if somebody knew you, they wouldn’t expect you to go for. Who’s someone, if you could dream, you’d have on the podcast?
Brad Johnson: Okay. Clarifying question. Do they have to be alive?
Max Major: No.
Brad Johnson: Okay, got it.
Max Major: You can say it out loud, just tell us.
Brad Johnson: Oh, I’m just saying it?
Max Major: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: Jim Rohn.
Max Major: Jim Rohn. Inspirational. Here’s the twist. You only get to ask Jim Rohn one question. Now that question could lead to a beautiful conversation that could go on for quite a time, but one question to kick the whole thing off, what’s the one question you would ask Jim Rohn? You had a time machine, you could go back, you could ask him anything.
Brad Johnson: Also, out loud?
Max Major: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: What was the most important principle you taught and why?
Max Major: Most important principle you’ve taught? Now here’s where it gets interesting. As you know, these podcasts, they can go on. It’s really a free-flowing conversation. That’s what makes people love podcasts. How long does this imaginary podcast end up lasting? Give me the hours, minutes, and seconds. You press record, you stop recording. What’s the timer say on the screen in your mind?
Brad Johnson: I mean, Jim Rohn, you’ve got one shot. We’d have to bring him back. Man, I’d probably go Rogan style. Let’s call it 3 hours, 25 minutes, 25 seconds.
Max Major: 3, 25, 25. Yes?
Brad Johnson: Yes.
Max Major: It’s fair to say that we didn’t set anything up before this podcast. You had no idea where the conversation would go today. In fact, you didn’t even know I’d be performing anything. I said I might try a little something, right? But you didn’t know. We didn’t set anything up. We didn’t arrange anything in advance. This is all happening. These are choices that you literally have made right now, in this moment. Yes?
Brad Johnson: Correct, yes.
Max Major: No way that I could know in advance.
Brad Johnson: No.
Max Major: As we were doing this, did it feel like I was influencing your choices or did those feel like free choices?
Brad Johnson: They felt pretty free.
Max Major: It’s about knowing a person. I want to show you the prediction that you’ve been looking at the entire time.
Brad Johnson: Okay.
Max Major: Inside of here is a piece of paper. Written on this piece of paper a few things that I think you’ll find interesting. The first thing written on this piece of paper is a name.
Brad Johnson: That’s wild.
Max Major: And the name is Jim Rohn.
Brad Johnson: I don’t know how you do it.
Max Major: Here’s where it gets interesting. I said you could only ask Jim Rohn one question, and that question could lead to a great conversation. But you said, what’s the most important principle you’ve ever taught? Here’s where it gets really interesting. You know that these podcasts, you don’t have a plan. You don’t have a script going in. They can go on and on. Some guests go longer than others. But you said that this conversation with Jim Rohn would be epic because it would be 3 hours, 25 minutes, and 25 seconds.
Brad Johnson: And right there, folks, is why we got Max on here. I mean, you got to be kidding me.
Max Major: No printers in there, by the way.
Brad Johnson: No printer. See now, now people are just going to be, the whole time, there’s going to be replaying that. And I hope you can actually pay attention the rest of this conversation.
Max Major: Well, they can rewind. That’s what’s good. They can go back and watch it and play it back.
Brad Johnson: Well, on that note, I mean, my natural tendency is how the heck did you do that? But I don’t think you can reveal that here.
Max Major: So, I know the question was how did I do it? I mean, I can tell you the skills that I use, but in any given moment, exactly what’s happening, I mean, that’s for the YouTube comments to decide. There’s really two core pieces to what I do. The first piece is this idea of reading people, right? It’s picking up on signals and cues, but also knowing the person, what are their interests, that kind of thing. Profiling in a way, sort of that Sherlock Holmes kind of detective work.
The other piece of what I do is about influence. That’s where the hypnosis comes in. It’s this idea of getting an idea in somebody’s head, but in a way that feels like it’s their own. I’m also a magician. I’m also a hypnotist. I study social experiments, human psychology, all of this stuff. And so, while I’m honest about the skills that I have, what’s up to you is to figure out when they’re being used.
So, the question is sort of like, did I make you say Jim Rohn or did I know you’d say Jim Rohn? That’s the game. That’s sort of the fun of it. So, while I’m honest about the skills that I have, in any given moment, what’s happening, that’s kind of the secret sauce, right?
Brad Johnson: Well, as I observed, I look at it when we bring somebody in to speak or to perform. I’m looking at it, number one, through the observer lens, just making sure our community is enjoying themselves, but I’m also sitting there trying to learn as well, because obviously, I have a podcast and I present, and I will tell you, I took a second and glanced around the room, probably 15 minutes into your performance on stage. And every single eyeball in the room was glued to you.
And I can tell you, we brought in some great speakers, and even some of the very best speakers. You’ll get the person scrolling and just kind of checked out. No, no. Everybody was literally, wherever you were on the stage, you were commanding the audience. So, what is the key to that? Obviously, you kept it going. You had some cool interactive stuff going, but a lot of our listeners and viewers, their advisors that are also on a stage trying to grow their business. Are there certain principles that you work in to hold attention or draw people in?
Max Major: Yeah, I mean, that comes back to my background as a performer. I’ve been on stage since I was 14 years old, so over 25 years at this point. And that’s a thing that just over time, you learn how to command a room. I think like confidence is a big piece of it and preparation, like, if I could give a practical tool that someone could take away.
As a hypnotist, there’s really three pieces to hypnotizing someone. It’s confidence, rapport, and trust. And if you have those three things, then you can get someone to do what you want them to do. If you think about it, those three principles actually apply to a lot of areas in life though, right? If you sit down with a client and you build confidence, rapport, and trust, then you probably have built a strong relationship with them, where they’re listening to the things that you’re saying. They’re trusting in you. You have their undivided attention.
The specific tools I use to capture attention are like pacing. It’s interactivity. But the practical thing that someone could take away is probably confidence. That’s not pacing around when you’re speaking, something really practical like that. Planning your feet, standing in one spot. But really, it’s like preparation. Like, if you’re struggling to present your information, whether it’s nervousness, a lot of times nervousness is just a lack of preparation.
But if you know your subject inside and out, there’s no reason to be nervous because we could right now turn this into a session where you advise me on my investments and financial planning and things like that, and you could talk for hours about that, right? You don’t need any preparation. I could put you on the spot. And it’s because you have an expert level understanding of that subject, right? So, your preparation is done through the, I don’t know how long you’ve been in business, 20 years that you’ve been in this field, right?
Brad Johnson: Twenty years this year.
Max Major: Yeah. Oh, very cool. Congratulations. So, like, preparation is number one, and so if you find yourself being nervous or struggling to command attention, it’s probably like your level of comfort with that material. And while you might be a subject matter expert, it’s like how prepared are you for that particular meeting.
Another thing that really helps in situations and settings like that is listening, honestly, like I believe that the best salespeople in the world are the best listeners, not the best speakers, right? Not the most compelling speakers, because many times in business, you go into a room and you want to get this person to make a decision, right? You want to get them to make the decision that helps you. And so, you end up planning all the things that you are going to say. They don’t leave a lot of room for them to speak or to really listen.
And the beautiful thing is if you listen more than you speak, that person is going to tell you all of the needs they have, all of the wants that they have, all the fears that they have, all the desires that they have, especially if you’re using targeted questioning, and they’re essentially going to write your sales pitch for you. So, if you listen and you take that information in, and then you paraphrase and retell it back to them in your own words, it’s going to be the sweetest sales pitch they’ve ever heard in their life because it’s literally their own words, right? So, I think like that’s a big thing that’s really helpful in those situations is just being a really good listener.
And a lot of times when we’re in a conversation or a room like that, we’re thinking about what we’re going to say next. So, we’re like scriptwriting in our head rather than being present, right? And I think the other piece of it that you can borrow from hypnosis is the intent piece. So, let’s say that I’m going in for a one-on-one with you, I’m trying to get you to bring your business to me, whatever field somebody’s in, right? If it’s as a financial advisor, I want you to keep your investments with me, right? If you start before that person ever walks in the room with establishing an intent, an intent to serve them, it will transform the energy in that room when they arrive. I know that’s a little bit of an abstract thing, but there’s a big difference between a person who has an agenda, they’re trying to sell you something. It’s the stereotypical. You use car salesman. When you walk on the lot, his like, one goal is to sell you that car and you feel it immediately and you almost like disconnect. Like, no, no, I’m just looking. Like, leave me alone is basically what you’re saying because it’s like oozing off of him, right? This is just like, his desire to get you in a vehicle today, versus if you go in with an intent of I want to serve this person, like this person that’s coming in, I want to serve them.
And I would take it a step further and I would say regardless of the business that you’re in, if you can put yourself in a state of mind where you desire to serve this person so much that even if it meant recommending your biggest competitor, if that was what was right for them, you would do it, because if I’m not the right fit for you, say someone is reaching out to my organization about hiring me for a keynote, like my goal going into that phone call with that client is to serve them. It’s to help them find the best program possible to make this the event that everybody talks about for the next 10 years, the event that’s impossible to top. The event that transforms the people in the audience. The event that keeps them off their cell phones, like you talked about, that keeps that hard-to-impress audience so engaged that their mind is nowhere else, right?
If my goal going in is to help them find that solution, then guess what? 99% of the time, I’m going to be that solution because I really am. I think I’m the best in the world at what I do. And for many events, it’s a great solution. But guess what? If I’m not the right solution, I’m not going to shoehorn myself into a program where it makes no sense to have me because I don’t want to be the guy on stage where the people’s faces are in their phones because they just came for X, Y, and Z and this is not that.
Now, 99% of the time, I think I can tweak my program to suit any needs. But the point is, if what they really need is not me, I will recommend that to them. Maybe it’s the budget, maybe they call in and they’re like, I got $2,000. And I’m like, well, I’m not the guy for you, but you know what? Let me help you find someone, maybe someone more junior who’s just starting out. Maybe someone that I’m mentoring, right? And so, I really do go into the conversation saying, I’m going to help this person create the best event possible, whether that includes me or not. And most of the time it does include me.
And so, I think if you go into your meetings with your clients with that same mindset that I’m going to serve this person, it’ll lead to you, one, listening more than you’re speaking because you really want to understand what they need so you can make the recommendation. And then, ultimately, that will come through in that interaction. They’re just going to feel it. When they’re having a conversation with someone who’s there to serve them, they’re going to feel it, and it’s just going to make it feel more like a conversation and less like a sales pitch.
Brad Johnson: Good stuff. I feel like you could sell, man.
Max Major: Yeah. Everybody’s in sales. Everybody’s in sales, right?
Brad Johnson: Yeah. I couldn’t agree more.
Max Major: Even if I’m not the one at this stage in my career that’s on the phone closing the deal and selling my service as a keynote, we’re all still selling, right? You’re selling an idea. You’re having a conversation with your employees about the kind of culture you’re trying to create or shift you’re trying to make inside the business. Even if you’re not interfacing with clients, everyone is selling something and they’re selling an idea. And again, the goal isn’t to become this bad actor who can puppet master people into making these decisions that you want them to make, whether it’s good for them or not. The goal is to come from a place of good intent, and we believe in our ideas. As a leader, you, right, or as a salesperson, someone listening to this, we believe in our ideas. However, we’re open to the possibility that a better idea exists, right?
So, if someone on your team comes to you and says, hey, you know what? Like, I got this idea that it’s a little different than the way we’ve been doing things. You’re open to that, right? So, I think that intent piece is huge. It’ll transform the interactions that you’re having with your clients and your employees as well before you sit down for a one-on-one, say, I’m going to help this guy. I’m going to find out what he needs. How’s it going? What’s his dream? What’s his vision? You know?
Brad Johnson: Yeah, I think sales has become a bad word. Sales to me is just, well, you said it, it’s belief, it’s a transfer of belief. Whether it’s, hey, team, we should go here, let’s go together. Whether it’s, hey, here’s this offering that I think can make your retirement better as a financial advisor. At the end of the day, it’s a transfer of belief. And you can’t do that if you don’t know what they want to your point on listening. I do love the hack that you just gave, which I think is great to make you an active listener. If you intentionally say, hey, Max, what I heard you say is, repeat back what they said, it makes you actually pay attention. So, I love that. That is, we coach on that a ton.
You have another thing that you listen for when you walk into a room and it has nothing to do with what people say. Can you give us your take on body language and how most people miss that side of the language?
Max Major: Ooh. Okay, okay. That’s a great question. So, the first thing I’ll say about body language is there’s no universal posture that means this or that, right? There’s no one thing that tells you that someone is lying because everyone has a different sort of default state, a way that they move through the world, that kind of thing. So, the best way to– so when you first get interested in body language, a lot of times people pick up these books and they see these pictures, charts saying, ooh, arms crossed. The person is guarded or defensive. But no piece of body language means anything in isolation, right?
I might just sit like this because it’s a comfortable way for me to sit, right? I might sit like this because it’s cold in the room and it keeps me warm. It doesn’t have a universal meaning. So, how do we apply body language if that’s true? Here’s what you do. When you walk into a room, as you suggested, the first thing you do is you take a snapshot of this person’s default behavior or what you’ll call their baseline. Okay? So, before we start having a conversation where we’re getting into numbers or commitment or selling or whatever it is, what is this person like? If they’re sitting like this at the beginning, we don’t attach a judgment to anything that we’re seeing. We’re just taking a mental picture of how this person is at the start of the conversation, right? Maybe during small talk or whatever it is. How are they sitting?
And then what we’re going to do is throughout the conversation, we’re going to look for changes in body language because while an individual posture doesn’t mean anything in isolation, changes in body language tell you everything. And without studying charts, all you’re going to look for is a shift from an open posture to a closed posture or a shift from a closed posture toward a more open posture. Now, you don’t have to look at stock photos of people’s body language to know what falls into these categories. I mean, if I were to sit like this, without judgment, would you consider this a closed posture or an open posture?
Brad Johnson: Closed.
Max Major: And if I were to be sitting like this, is this a closed posture or an open posture?
Brad Johnson: Open.
Max Major: Right. If I were slightly turned away from you, pointing my chest away from you or my feet away from you, is this an open posture or a closed posture?
Brad Johnson: Closed.
Max Major: Right. And if I were to shift more towards you, I would be opening up to you, right? Very simple. So, how do we apply that? We talked about how people are sometimes scriptwriting in their head and they have a point that they want to get across or a place they’re trying to go with what they’re saying. While you’re speaking, while you’re telling them the things that they’ve already told you, while you’re repeating back their words and your own words, you’re looking for shifts in body language. And what you’re looking for specifically is a shift from an open posture to a closed posture or from a closed posture to an open posture.
From a closed posture to an open posture would mean they’re gaining comfort with you. That’s a great sign, right? If they settle into their chair, they lean in, versus on the contrary, if we’re having a conversation like this, let’s say we get to that price conversation, right? And suddenly, I lean back and I cross my arms. My posture just went from an open posture to a closed posture, right? Now, first thing we’re going to do is we’re going to observe that. The second thing we’re going to do is we’re not going to apply any judgment to what we’ve seen. We’re not going to try to write a story inside of our head about what’s going on in their mind, because we are not mind readers. I mean, I might be, but you’re not a mind reader, right?
So, instead of trying to guess, ooh, they didn’t like that, right? Because again, it’s not good or bad, it’s just an indication that something has shifted inside of them. And so, what we’ll do is that the moment we observe a shift in body language from an open posture to a more closed off posture, we will stop speaking and then we will give them the floor by saying something like, hey, you know what? I’ve been doing all the talking up until this point. What do you think about what I just said? Or what do you think about what I’ve said so far?
And the reason this works is because at the moment that this thought crosses their mind that they changed their posture, instead of putting a pin in that and going, hmm, I really, when I finished saying what I’m saying, we should go back to that. Maybe three minutes have passed. They don’t even know what thought went through their own head three minutes ago, right? But if at the moment the thought is top of mind, we stop speaking, we give them the floor, and we say something inviting like, hey, you know what? What do you think of what I’ve said so far? Or I’ve been doing all the speaking, what are your thoughts on this so far?
At that moment, we’re going to get that information. And they might say, you know what? I’ll be honest, this is a little outside my budget, right? And if you wait to ask that question, regardless of what the fear or concern is that they have, then they won’t even know what was the top of their mind in that moment. And so, at the moment that we observe this shift, we’re going to stop. We’re going to ask them. You could even just say what’s on your mind because the goal is to get that unsaid said, right?
Because a lot of times a person will have a concern in the back of their head. They’ll be afraid to share it with you. And if that concern is not answered, they ultimately won’t end up doing business with you for some reason you don’t know because they have some fear attached to some idea, or they feel like it’s too expensive or they can’t afford it, or they don’t have the time or they need someone else’s permission or whatever the objection is. So, hopefully, that’s something you can take immediately into practice.
Brad Johnson: No, I think that it’s simple enough that I think anybody can apply it. It’s not like you had to go through a seven-step course on body language. But you’re exactly right. That like in those moments, if you are aware enough to observe them, and then I love your opening dialogue. It’s like, hey, I’ve been talking a lot. What’s on your mind? Like, back to transfer of belief, you can’t build a financial plan for someone if you don’t know what they want to build, right? If I was going to build you a home, I can’t just make something up and hope you and your wife are going to love it. I’ve got to actually ask questions and listen.
Max Major: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brad Johnson: And so, I mean, I think it’s great information for any advisor that can apply it.
Max Major: I’ll give a book that’s really great on this subject. It’s called What Every Body Is Saying, B-O-D-Y, What Every Body Is Saying by Joe Navarro, who was an FBI interrogator. So, this is really epic stuff because it’s not academic, it’s not, here’s how this works in theory. It’s someone who used this in the real world and who sort of aligns with this school of belief that I have around body language. And it’ll give you some practical things you can take and immediately apply to every area of your life.
The best way to think about body language is as another form of listening. So, again, it kind of gets a bad rap sometimes. It’s like, ooh, you’re trying to pick apart or analyze this person that’s in front of you. No, it’s listening. And if I could teach you to be a better listener, would that make you a better salesperson, Brad?
Brad Johnson: Oh, 100%.
Max Major: If I could teach you to be a better listener, would that make you a better leader, Brad?
Brad Johnson: Yes.
Max Major: If I could teach you to be a better listener, would that make you a better spouse?
Brad Johnson: My wife would say yes, for sure.
Max Major: I think everyone would agree.
Brad Johnson: Yes.
Max Major: So, no matter the relationship in your life, body language is just more information. That’s all it is. And it also turns you into an active participant in the conversation. Instead of just zoning out or thinking about what you’re saying next, you’re observing what’s happening right in front of you and you’re creating space for that person to say that thing that’s on their mind. It’s about getting the unsaid said. It’s about getting it out in the open, which isn’t always fun, if it’s a personal conversation, but it is very important and it’s the only way that I want to live my life, right?
Brad Johnson: Max, how does that play out? Obviously, a lot of advisors are meeting with husband, wife, couples. You might have one that’s kind of taking charge in the conversation, one that’s maybe a little more closed off. How would that play out in couples dynamics?
Max Major: Inviting the other person to speak, yeah. I think if you observe, if, let’s say, the husband crosses his arms, the wife is still fully engaged in the thing you’re talking about. Again, we’re not going to attach judgment to what we’re seeing, so we’re not going to assume he doesn’t like what we just said. We’re not going to assume that he’s scared of what we just said. We’re just going to invite that person, whoever’s having that closed off reaction to share what they’re thinking in that moment.
So, it might be something like, you know what? I’ve been chatting with you for the last 10 minutes. What are your thoughts on all of this? How do you feel about what I just said? So, yeah, I think you would just be, at that moment, inviting that other person to participate in the conversation because again, if you don’t, let’s say one person is just more outgoing than the other, the one person does all of the speaking and the other person just listens, what’s going to happen is that person’s going to speak, but it’s not going to be when you’re in the room. They’re going to go home and they’re going to have a conversation about this and they’re going to have taken a mental note about something you said. And they’re going to say, you know what? I didn’t really like when he said this, X, Y, or Z. And because it was never addressed, that might kill the deal.
Brad Johnson: Yeah.
Max Major: Yeah. Because you didn’t get a chance to satisfy that objection or that fear or whatever, whatever they were thinking in that moment. Or confusion. Could be confusion. It might just be like, I’m lost. I don’t even know what we’re talking about at this point, so I’m just kind of tuning out. So, it might not be a negative thing. It might just be that you’ve lost them, so.
Brad Johnson: Well, one of the things you talked about when you were performing for our group, you were kind of like, who are the skeptics out there? And I’m sure doing what you do, a skeptic, that’s kind of like the biggest challenge, but there’s also skeptics in financial services and a meeting, right? So, is there different body language that shows like kind of this person’s a skeptic or is it just closed body language? Like, what was that…
Max Major: Again, we’re not going to try to attach a label or a belief or an opinion to anything that we’re seeing because the problem with that is that you don’t know what someone’s internal world is. Maybe they looked down at their phone and they saw a text that was some bad news or their Apple Watch, they saw it come in. And it has nothing to do with what you’re saying. It’s something outside of this room that’s affecting them and how they’re feeling.
So, we’re never going to assume. We’re just going to use body language as a way of taking cues on the window. Dig a little deeper. Because when a shift occurs inside of someone, we can’t know what their internal world is. We’re not going to attach a story to it. We’re just going to invite them in that moment to share what’s on their mind. And then that way, we don’t have to guess.
Brad Johnson: Okay. So, I learned a lesson. Don’t judge others by their body language or, I mean, obviously that’s just life in general. But what’s interesting, being a guy that studied a ton of body language, you’re not trying to attach a meaning to it. You’re just observing like the shifts and kind of playing off the shifts. It’s almost, is that what you’re saying?
Max Major: Yes and no. I’m trying to give your listener a practical framework that they can take and immediately apply to their life, right? As you get further down the rabbit hole, you can know a lot of things about a person just by looking at them. In the context of the time that we have in this podcast, it wouldn’t be helpful or of service for us to break that down. I’m trying to give people a way in and a framework in which you can’t fail. This is a framework in which you can’t fail.
I like to do things that take a lot of risk on stage, right? Because if I get the number right or whatever it is, if I’m able to get the idea inside of your head, that’s a really cool experience for the audience and I’m trying to take risks in big swings because payoff for you is entertainment, right? But in sales and in business, we’re not trying to be mind readers. We’re trying to talk to the human being in front of us to understand what their needs are, what their concerns are, what their fears are, and to get those out in the open so that we ultimately can serve them.
So, is it possible the more you study this that you can know a little more about that person’s internal state? Yes, absolutely. However, I would caution you to always use it as a way to talk to the person sitting in front of you rather than to make assumptions about them. On stage, it is my job to know the unknown, but that’s not very helpful in a marriage. That’s not very helpful in business to try to guess what your partner is thinking.
And oftentimes, we can assume the worst. When in reality, it is something outside of the room or the situation that’s causing them to have that reaction. It could be something that happened in the past. It could be something they just found out. It could be a word that you just used that triggered some fear inside of them. So, yeah, it’s much better to just use it as a tool to get the unsaid said so that you don’t have to be a mind reader and you don’t have to devote 25 years of your life to studying micro expressions and things like that.
Brad Johnson: Yeah, there we go. Well, I want to shift one of the things as an entrepreneur and a business owner, which the audience here is, because they all happen to be entrepreneurs that happen to be in the world of finance. You have a belief, you say your thoughts create your reality, which is very much a mindset thing. I’d love to hear your take, just how does that apply in business? How does it apply in life?
Max Major: I don’t even know if it’s a belief. I think it’s a truth. Whether you’re aware of it or not, I think it is how the mind operates. I’ll give you an example. We all know the kind of person who is relentlessly negative, right? You have someone in your life like this. They’re like, I can’t believe this is happening again. Why does this always happen to me? I’m so unlucky, right?
And then you have another type of person in your life that’s just relentlessly positive and they’re like, I can’t believe this is happening to me again, right? Same words, but different energy behind it. I’m so lucky, right? And it’s not about like being positive when sh*t’s hitting the fan in your life. It’s not what I’m suggesting. It’s just the mere fact that your thoughts and your internal belief system create a filter through which you see the world and you interact with the world in the way that you make decisions and your willingness to take risks and things like that.
So, if we wanted to go a layer deeper in this, I really do believe that we all have beliefs that are based on our past that limit us in some way. And the thing is, they sort of run like programs in the background. And if we don’t stop once in a while to ask ourselves like, what are the stories I’m telling myself, then they just continue to run in the background. And they might be based off of something that happened to you when you were eight years old and something somebody said. Maybe it was on a baseball field and you screwed up, and this person told you like you’re no good or that sucked. And now, suddenly, you have a belief that you’re not good enough, right?
And that belief for that eight-year-old is probably really helpful in that moment. But then if you continue to carry that belief for the next 40 years of your life, it’s not hard to see how that can kind of no longer serve you. And one of the things I found in like one-on-one work that I do with people through hypnotherapy is we all have some version of a belief that has served us for a time in our life but that no longer serves us and is probably holding us back. Now, you might think like, why would someone believe something along the lines of like, I’m not good enough.
And the funny thing is that is the most common limiting belief for high performers, for professional athletes, for entrepreneurs. It’s like, why would it be that someone who has accomplished so much would believe something like, I’m not good enough. Well, you could see how a belief like I’m not good enough would lead that person to live in such a way that they want to prove others wrong. They want to work harder. I have to practice harder. I have to show others. I have to prove them wrong. I have to show my father I’m great. I have to show my coach I’m great. I’m going to show that person that bullied me that they’re wrong, right?
And it will be through the evidence of my actions that the world will see that I am good enough. And we create an identity that’s based around performance, and that is very helpful. For a time in our life, it drives us to push harder, to work harder, to grind, to do these things. But there comes a time in our life where that no longer serves us. And the problem is, so for example, I’ve worked with a former UFC champion who lost their belt and they were trying to get the belt back and we unpacked what their limiting belief was. And it was this belief, I’m not good enough.
And you have to think like, how could someone who has reached the pinnacle of their field believe they’re not good enough? With the evidence of the World Championship Belt around their waist, how could they still believe that I’m not good enough? And in fact, what would happen if you walked into the ring believing I’m not good enough or I’m not worthy? Well, you might lose your belt, right?
And the problem is for high performers, a lot of times they’re afraid if they let go of this idea they consider their superpower, they’ll no longer be great. Right? It’s like if, well, that’s the thing that drove me my whole life. So, if I let it go, I’m going to lose my edge. But the truth is, you’ve earned all of the good things that it’s given you. So, if you believe something like, I’m not good enough, it would probably drive you to have a good work ethic to want to prove others wrong, to push harder than others would believe reasonable, right? It would give you this superpower skillset to push through, to work, to meet challenges. And that’s a good thing, right?
The fear is you get rid of that belief and then you’ll no longer have that skillset. I’m not putting this on you, but if you believed something like that and it led you to have this great work ethic, could anyone at this point in your life, Brad Johnson, take away your work ethic? No.
Brad Johnson: I don’t think so. No.
Max Major: Right? You earned it. It’s who you are. It’s how you operate. It’s how you move through the world. So, the good news is, you earned that. Whatever the belief is that led you to be the person you are, you earned all the good things that come with it. But all of the negative baggage that comes attached to it, you no longer need. So, there’s not a world in which you let go of that belief and you lose your drive, your motivation, and your work ethic.
And the good thing is that you then unlock yourself to perform at a new level, and you can actually just take a moment to stop because these things are like viruses. They’re like programs that for a moment in time, they serve you in your life. But then later in life, they no longer serve you. But if we don’t stop to look at our internal world to audit it and say, what are the stories I tell myself? Then it just continues to run in the background.
So, the beautiful thing is once you observe and identify that thought, you actually get to replace it with a new thought that makes you more and not less. So, you might believe instead of I’m not good enough, you might believe I’m worthy, I’m loved. Something that makes you more and not less, and now you get to move through a world with all those gifts that you acquired from living in this way for 30 years with a new belief system that makes you more and not left.
So, how do entrepreneurs use this? Take a look at the words you use when you talk to yourself, when you’re alone with your thoughts. What are the things that come up again and again for you? What are the things that you say? And then you go, oh, why did I say that? And try to dig in and say like, where does that come from? Like, what’s the moment in my life? How far can I trace it? Pull on the thread and go back to that moment in your life where it feels like the inception point of that idea. And let it go, because how long does it take to change your life or to change your mind?
Change happens. Change is not a process. I think there’s this belief out there that people always say, oh, I’m processing my trauma, my past, whatever it is. It doesn’t require any effort. It doesn’t require– there’s no process to change, right? It’s just simply in a moment you decide to release and let it go. You don’t have to even understand it. You don’t have to understand how it got in there. You just have to identify it and decide enough’s enough. No longer going to live this way.
And in a moment, you can let it go. So, change happens not through evaluation, through processing, through effort and hard work. It simply happens through releasing and letting go those things, those beliefs, those ideas, those behaviors that no longer serve you and that takes that long.
Brad Johnson: Max, from your experience, can most people do that on their own? It’s kind of like, think about your own thinking. It’s almost like a personal therapy session with yourself. Do you feel like most people can get there? Or do they need a therapist or a close friend to help them from your experience?
Max Major: Can most people get there? No. Can the type of person who listens to this podcast get there? Probably. I think most people are just trying to get by. They’re like going to work. They’re stressed out. They’re trying to pay their bills. They’re taking care of their kids. Like, how much extra bandwidth do you have to sit and think about your thoughts? Probably not a lot.
The kind of person who would listen to a podcast like this, a business owner, someone who reads books about self-improvement, someone who maybe journals, who’s on that journey of becoming the best version of themselves, if they’re on that journey, then yes, I believe you can do this without guidance or support. There are tools that can help. One of them is journaling. There’s a process called morning pages. You can look it up, but essentially, you just brain dump whatever’s on your mind, stream of consciousness, onto three sheets of paper first thing in the morning.
There’s no agenda. There’s no goal. If you don’t have any thoughts, you literally write that. I don’t have any thoughts. This is a waste of time. Literally, whatever thought comes through your mind, pen to paper without judgment, fill up three sheets of paper. When you’re done, you’re done. You never have to look at them again. It’s not for anyone else’s consumption. It’s not to ever be shared, which if you’re going to share it, it creates a filter. You can shred them. You can throw them away. However, if you’re going to keep them, don’t look back at them for at least two months. That’s my recommendation.
What journaling is, is it’s you’re having a conversation with yourself, and over time, if you look back at that, after you’ve given it time, you’ll notice there’s themes that come up a lot, and you’ll notice that you actually deal with sh*t. Like through the course of the pages, you stop talking about that thing that was nagging you because you’re like bringing it to the front of your mind. But the key is you can’t go into the exercise with that intent. You can’t go into the exercise saying, I’m going to uncover the deepest truths about myself. I’m going to make myself a better person. Because as soon as you apply that intent, you’re not going stream of consciousness.
So, the key is really, it’s that first thing in the morning brain dump, three sheets of paper. If it so happens that there’s a breakthrough that day, you write down a sentence that rocks you to your core, that makes you drop the pen, and you go, that’s it. That’s the thing. That’s great. That’s a bonus. But if you just sit there and you just say, this is a waste of time. Why am I doing this? I can’t believe I’m still doing this. That’s the exercise for the day. You know what I mean?
So, journaling is a way to have a conversation with your subconscious, but you can’t go into it with that intent. I know that’s really hard to wrap your head. How do you do a thing, but try not to do it at the same time? It’s sort of that idea of letting go. You just don’t worry about the thing. You embrace the process. And then you can see a hypnotherapist. Hypnotherapists can help you through this process of identifying the beliefs that the key to hypnotherapy is, it’s not just hypnosis, it’s hypnotherapy. It’s the second piece of it.
And a lot of times for people when I do a session with them, it’s that conversation that actually unlocks the new level of their life. If we are there for an hour and we talk for 45 minutes, it’s like in that 45 minutes, oftentimes they’ll say the thing that unlocks their behavior for the past 20 years and they’re like, oh, my gosh, that’s the thing that’s been holding me back that I believed my whole life. And oftentimes, it’s just like shining light on that thing is like the beginning of the end of that idea. As soon as you have awareness around a belief, sometimes it just starts to fall away.
What the hypnotist can do is they can help you cement that learning, install some new beliefs, and sort of get rid of that old program. But a lot of times, it’s like shining the light on it that in and of itself does all of the work. I don’t do one-on-one sessions currently, but there are qualified hypnotherapists in every major city and I think it’s something worth looking into, if you want to have a conversation like this.
Brad Johnson: Appreciate you sharing that. And for those watching and listening in, I think it’s clear to see Max. I mean, there’s a lot more to you than just a stage act. You think deeply, and I really like the couple conversations we’ve had. I really appreciate how you kind of found your way through life, because you’re really on a personal growth track. And those are the sort of people I want to surround myself with.
Max Major: Thank you.
Brad Johnson: So, I just have one final question for you. I know we’re at time here. You had a chance to experience launch, do business, do life as we say around here, build a business that blesses your life, doesn’t just become your life. You brought your wife, Sara, which was awesome. My wife’s name is Sarah as well. And so, it was just cool to see like you brought your crew with you. And so, I would just love to hear what is your definition of what does doing business and doing life look like for Max?
Max Major: I have had a belief similar to this for quite a while that, as soon as I adopted it, changed my life. And when I heard you say do business and do life, you gave new words to something that I’ve always believed. I shouldn’t say always believed. Something that I recently adopted. For the longest time, I thought that success in life required compromise, that you couldn’t have it all. That if you wanted success in business, imagine that early 20s guy that’s trying to start his company and he doesn’t have time for relationships, I mean, I even remember saying to people in my life, like, I don’t have time for that. I don’t have time to date. You know what I mean? I don’t have time. Mm-hmm. It’ll distract me from my business. And the assumption was always that life required sacrifice. And that if you had success in one area of your life, you couldn’t have success in another area of your life.
And it occurred to me in my early relationship with Sara, that actually that wasn’t true. That there were people that could come into your life that could make you more and not less. There were people that could come into your life that would allow you to become the best version of yourself, that didn’t limit you in any way. And I adopted a new belief, which was, you can have it all, which I believe is true. You can have it all. You can have a beautiful family. You can have a beautiful marriage and a loving partner. You can have an amazing, thriving business. You can have passions outside of your career. You can have it all. And I believe that is true. And I think do business, do life sums that up.
Brad Johnson: Well said, my man. Well, I know you’re just newly married and really happy for you guys. And by the way, those of you that don’t currently follow Max out on IG, make sure go check him out. But for your actual wedding, you and your wife perform a joint magic trick, which was pretty cool.
Max Major: I don’t know why you said wedding in finger quotes. It was not a wedding. It was a wedding.
Brad Johnson: Well, I’m sorry, wedding trick. I hadn’t finished my full thought there. It was a wedding magic trick. And I thought it was really cool. It just showed like you guys, obviously, it was a special moment in your life, but you also like to have fun doing it. So, I thought that was really cool. Well, appreciate you coming on Max, sharing your wisdom. I have a feeling for our calendar’s lineup, we’ll probably be seeing you at a future Triad experience because I know everybody had a blast when you were there.
Max Major: I’d love it. Thanks for having me.
Brad Johnson: All right, my man. Till next time.
Max Major: See you.
