Brad Johnson: Welcome back to another episode of Do Business. Do Life. Excited. We have Triad members, Matt and Daveda, here with us today. Welcome to the show.
Matt Rowley: Thanks, Brad. Thanks for having us.
Daveda Phillips: Thank you for having us.
Brad Johnson: Well, I appreciate it. I know I was firing off some texts the other day. I was like, “Hey, do you guys want to come on the show?” You’ve got a story I want to tell and thank you for being cool with just being able to hop on here. And, Daveda, I was saying before we hit record here, I was like, that is the most thorough business breakdown I’ve ever gotten pre-podcast. I’m like, “I’m going to have you start teaching courses on this to future podcast guests,” which is one of the reasons that obviously you do such a great job with the firm. So, I know Matt’s super grateful to have you on the team.
So, we’re going to dive in. As I was kind of thinking about how to kick this thing off, Matt, you have a super unique background. You have a military background. I’ll let you explain it, but you were technically a member of the Air Force, but you were working with just about every branch out there, Special Forces, before your journey into finance. And one of the things I’ve just come to really appreciate about you, there’s a lot of people in business that, let’s say, when the entrepreneurial things pop up as they do for all financial advisors, where unfortunately, just business isn’t perfect. There are hurdles that get in the way that you don’t see coming.
Some people kind of do this and say, “Hey, the team’s doing this,” and you’ve always been the guy, from my experience, you’re very self-aware, you’re very like examining your own thoughts. And as Jocko calls it, looking in the mirror problem identified, and you’ve always been that guy as a leader, and I’ve really seen you grow a ton as a leader. I don’t know if some of that accountability came from your time in the military, but I just love for you to explore, like maybe some of your background and where that comes from, because I think it’s one of the things a lot of leaders are missing and really need to grow in that area. So, if you don’t mind, just share your side of that.
Matt Rowley: Man, that’s a super generous and kind thing of you to say, and I’ll do my best to represent why I think that is. If I’m being truthful, I think that anything good or successful that I have to point to, in my opinion, comes from two things. I think, number one, I decided that at a young age, that I was going to care and that I was going to try to make the most I could out of a life that God gave me, which is a gift. I heard it saying that God gives us life. That’s His gift to us. And what we do with our life is our gift to God. And I come well short of that all the time, but it was at least enough of a saying to get me to focus and become serious about life and what I wanted to accomplish and to try to have an impact.
I also grew up on a farm, living next door to my cousins, living next door to my grandmother, my grandfather. There were 14 cousins that we all grew up close together, and it was our job to work the farm together. We grew up on a farm, and I’m no stranger to obstacle, unfortunately. Before I was born, my dad had a horrific accident. He’s been in a wheelchair my whole life, and I haven’t seen what he was like before, but I’ve gotten to see how he responded to that, and the way that he did things. Even on the farm at age 78, my grandfather lost his leg and was in the hospital for nine months, and we set to work welding levers onto tractors and changing gates and finding different equipment he could use so that we could still run the farm.
I grew up working. I remember my first job. I was six. I got a five-gallon bucket, and my job was to walk through the fields and pick rocks up that the plows pull up every spring. And maybe you’ve done that, Brad. You’re a farm kid.
Brad Johnson: You were taking me back down memory lane there, my man.
Matt Rowley: Yeah. The bucket gets heavier, and the sun gets hot.
Brad Johnson: Hey, that’s why those farmer’s carries. We’re naturally wired for those in the gym now, right?
Matt Rowley: That’s right. Hang clings are always easy because that’s like a bale of hay, right? But I do think that I grew up with a sense of duty and really great examples. And the second thing that I think honestly deserves more credit than anything I’ve done is just the community that I grew up in. I grew up in a place where community gets involved. “It takes a village” mentality is true. And I got to see examples from cousins and others. Now, I did not grow up around money. I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks, but I did see that the success that was there. I would have some buddies in high school that had success, and all of the ones that I looked up to, all of their fathers were entrepreneurs and had earned their own way out.
And I saw a ton, and this will play back later, unfortunately, for Daveda, I saw a ton of examples, good and bad. The most common example I saw were people who were just entrepreneurial enough to do well for themselves, but they were hustling. And the name of the game was lean and mean. And that’s what success looked like in the area I grew up in. I was fortunate to make friends with a few guys right before I left home, whose dads were actual real business owners, not just self-employed, real entrepreneurs doing things on a real level. And the other examples I had were amazing, and they showed me enough to get me started down the path. But I learned that there was a higher level, and I needed to pause and learn. That was a hard lesson to talk about.
Brad Johnson: So, you kind of like, just going back, you kind of had this inner, it’s about something bigger than myself, and do something that matters with it. And you had just kind of hard work bred into you from an early age. And I can say as a fellow farm boy, I can respect that. And you don’t really always enjoy it in it. I didn’t like jump out of bed, “Hey, let’s do some farm chores this morning.” In fact, I probably did the opposite. But looking back, the lessons it instilled and the things I took from that later, you appreciate it now. I’m assuming that’s a little bit of your journey as well.
Matt Rowley: Yeah. And it’s the “Hey, you start and you don’t stop until the job is done” mentality, right?
Brad Johnson: Yeah.
Matt Rowley: And that makes for some long days sometimes, for sure, but I think it gets things done.
Brad Johnson: Well, Daveda, I don’t want you to just be sitting here, so why don’t… Obviously, Matt’s the founder of the firm. You have really worked alongside Matt to help build out the team and do a lot of the cool stuff you all have done. And we’re going to get into that and unpack it today. But share with everybody kind of your role at the firm so they know from the jump. And then I’m sure we’ll kind of bounce back and forth here as we follow the journey.
Daveda Phillips: Perfect. I am supporting Matt. I was one of his first employees, and I took the position when I moved to Idaho in 2018. I graduated from San Diego State with Hospitality and Tourism, and then I did 13 years in the hospitality industry. So, I worked for hotels, being a director for an office, director of spa, director of housekeeping. And I really had a passion for service, and I love taking care of people. So, when we moved here, I applied for a position and Matt hired me. And, basically, we’ve been working together ever since, building out a vision that I felt very passionate to be a part of.
Brad Johnson: So, let’s go to that because as I look at kind of everything you prepped for me, kind of the rabbit trail or the breadcrumb trails, maybe a better way to put it, of your journey that the team was very small when you joined. Correct? You want to give some context? What’d the team look like back then?
Daveda Phillips: Sure. I was interviewed by two of the partners, and it was a really extensive interview process of two, like back-to-back, and I think we swapped with another candidate at the same time, and it was just really good. And it was a very small office, an office of maybe two offices. Not even that. It was just like a front desk and then just two offices. And I looked them up on the internet, I did my research, and after the interview with Matt, I really felt that he was going somewhere, and he wanted to develop something obviously bigger than himself, and I wanted to be part of that. So, I was applying to other positions, and it just happened that I got accepted to other ones, but I actually went with Matt because I felt a bigger calling.
I felt that with my faith that this is the direction that I wanted to go in, and it worked out really well. It was hard, I think, at first, but I really liked the dynamic of the small team, right? Going from a huge corporation back to a small team, and I was like, “Okay, I can do this, right? Like, this is going to be fun.” And so, yeah, just wearing a lot of hats, I think, at first, and diving in, and it was exactly what I wanted.
Brad Johnson: And, Matt, you were probably on the other side of the table like, “I really hope she takes this because we need help,” right? That’s typically how it starts back in the day. Is that fair?
Matt Rowley: It is. There’s a lot more to that, though. And this is a part where hopefully there’s somebody out there that can really benefit from this or at least relate to this on their story. I lived for a while in Argentina serving a mission. I was in the military, and you learn certain things going through. I was two years down in Argentina, four years in the military, I guess, seven if you include some stuff I did with the guard. But there are certain things you pick up. For instance, one of the mottos of the Air Force is “Service before self,” right? I guess, the way I was raised and with what my life journey has been, there’s a real sense of serving and duty, and putting others first. And that’s hard to do, especially in a business when the whole purpose of it is to grow and to get ahead and do those things.
But I think Daveda maybe downplays a little bit in the beginning. She doesn’t do that to downplay it. She does that out of humility, and I appreciate that about her. I’d like to give a little bit of context on Daveda’s behalf if you’re open to it, Brad.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. Do it.
Matt Rowley: Some dangerous territory here. Look, for me as a founder, Daveda was our first hire, our first full-time, our first real hire. And I do think that that has God’s guidance all over it. I would love to be able to take credit for all of it, but I cannot. Brad, you’ll appreciate this, but growing up on the farm, one of the big activities that we had was 4-H, riding horses, and showing horses. And I did that from a young age. I competed in that, and then I remembered my mom and this lady named Pam, they started club and got together. And the moment I started working with them, I went from just kind of an average kid to number three in the state, like in a matter of two years.
And it wasn’t because of me, it was because of their organization, and they just knew how to organize and do things the right way. And I learned that from them, but I didn’t know how to articulate it. I didn’t know how to explain it well. But when I met Daveda in our interview process, I recognized that she had that, that she was like them. And I knew she was the kind of person that I could go far with. And there’s a saying that I just keep going back to, “If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.” And Daveda coming on board for me, really, is that starting point. That’s where that began.
And she downplays it, Brad. This is something I would want founders to hear, and this is something I would want staff to hear, like the real raw truth of what it’s like. When I started my business, Brad, I was in sales. I had a security clearance from the military. I had a pretty intense special operations assignment next, and that’s where my wife and I said, “Hey, do we really want to do this?” We’ve been at dinner with friends when they’ve gotten the phone call that somebody in their squadron just got killed in Afghanistan. Like, we’ve experienced that. We know it’s real. Luckily, I was in a more support role where I wasn’t on the front lines, but I had to be ready to be, so I had all that training, that kind of stuff. And those were my friends, that was my community, and those were the people that got killed the most.
And so, we decided to get out of the military. And growing up like I did, I had probably lower standards for myself than I should have. And I took a job in tech sales, and while I was doing that, my buddy reached out to me and said, “Hey, I’m thinking of starting a finance business, Matt. I’m afraid of the sales part. I know the back office part,” and there’s more to this story. Life is interesting. But he had been taken on right out of college. He was a friend of mine from Argentina. We were roommates in college, played soccer together, and he ended up moving to Houston and getting a job at a financial firm. And I grew up in a house around finance. Finance was spoken about. I was always excited about it, but intimidated, didn’t know quite how to get into it. I didn’t have anybody around me. I didn’t have any connections.
Finally, this buddy calls and says, “Hey, Matt, I could use your help on sales guidance. I want to start a business in finance.” So, I offered to help. He’s a friend of mine. And then the more we worked together, the more he said, “Hey, I see I’m out of my depth here. Will you just come join me and partner with me?” And that’s how we started. I left health insurance. I left a salary. I had just gotten myself out of credit card debt. It took me two and a half years of living off of $40 a month of like fund money to get out of debt. And then I put our first seminar on my credit card and maxed it out.
Brad Johnson: You burned the boats.
Matt Rowley: I burned the boats, man. And I practiced every day with a marketer at the time who was willing to put in. Every day, I would go to work and then, in the evenings, do an hour of seminar practice. And then I finally took some time off of the job that I had, drove the five and a half hours to Boise that I was doing, did the seminar, drove the five and a half hours back. And then we got a few appointments out of the first seminar. I was so nervous. I had to set my notes down because I was shaking.
Brad Johnson: Yeah.
Matt Rowley: And we got a few clients out of that that are our clients to this day. Some of our very best clients, the Hearns and the Colts, and I knew we had to do it. Long story short. We closed some business out of that. And I had been working on coincidentally a hospital there in Kansas City in my other job. For a year, I had been out there visiting them, working with them, and right the day that I closed them, they announced an acquisition, went out of my territory, and I lost a sale that I had been working on for a year. They gave me half the compensation, and that ended up being less than what I got from just that one seminar.
And so, I saw, “Okay, there’s a potential to do things here. This could really be special,” and burned the boats. I quit that job. My wife was pregnant. We left health insurance. We had a house where we were living in Salt Lake at the time. Still hadn’t sold it yet. So, I was paying for that mortgage, which was hard for me. And then starting a new business and also having to pay for rent on a 1,500 square foot place for a family of six. And it was tough. And then I’m barely making it, just nervous. Each month is scary. And then you get the advice, “Hey, to grow, you’ve got to hire.” And I wasn’t even making it for my family every month. And to think about bringing somebody on and being responsible for them getting paid and providing for them also, genuinely scary. Very scary.
But when I met Daveda, I did recognize that ‘it’ factor, and I did have a feeling that she would be able to help us, and that it would be worth it. Now, to brag on Daveda. Daveda, would you mind sharing your original compensation package, please, if you’re up for it?
Daveda Phillips: So, and Brad, don’t get confused. My husband’s name is Brad, and we talked about it, sat down, and I said, “Okay, if I’m going to change careers completely, what can I do? What can we do in order?” And he said, “If you could just help pay the mortgage every month, then that would be great. And if you want to contribute that way, so then not all the pressure’s just on me.” And I was like, “Okay,” because this job is offering $25,000 a year, and I thought like, “Okay.” I’m taking a lesser position because I was being offered a general manager and I didn’t want to do that to my family at this time. I wanted to go in a different direction.
And I took the position for $25,000 with potential, right, to grow and maybe possibly get incentives or bonuses because I think that’s included in the job description, and we sat down. We’re like, “Okay, we can do this. We can try this out and see.” But, yeah, that was my starting salary.
Matt Rowley: Talk about all the benefits.
Brad Johnson: You weren’t running home high-fiving your husband on that one?
Daveda Phillips: Yeah. No, but it was more work-life balance. I think that was important at that stage.
Brad Johnson: Well, here’s what I want to go back to. You’ve hit a couple of core things already that are growth points for firms that want to scale. Matt, I get it, dude. Like, as an entrepreneur, the last five years, like I coached advisors for over a decade, but I didn’t live it. And until you’ve looked at the trade-offs of like, “Wait, here’s the lease, here’s the bills coming in, here’s the revenue or lack of revenue in the early days, but wait, we need help.” And it’s almost like this tug of war between hiring and investing in the company and keeping the doors open. And the thing that I heard you say is you knew deep down, to grow the business you needed to grow, you had to invest in people. But that trade-off is a lot of early founders look at as an expense.
It’s like, “Oh, here’s how much it costs me.” And the truth is, without Daveda, you would never have scaled to where you’re at. So, you invested in the people. And that is just such a business lesson, not just for advisors, but just in general. And the other thing I hear that just like a lesson I took from that, Daveda did not join the firm for the financial package. She joined the firm for the heartbeat of what the company was about. Like, I heard it from both of you. I just felt this connection to here’s where we want to take this thing back to vision. And I know you’ve spent a lot of time, both of you collectively, on figuring out what that looks going forward as you add more and more team members and get more of them on board and all rowing in the same direction.
But at least the early part of however you voiced that in that interview, Matt, it was easy to see the heart of the company, and here’s what we want to do, and it actually goes back to what you said. It was like that care that I have, this life, I’ve got to make something out of it. I’m sure that came across there. So, I think both of those things are under-indexed in a lot of financial services firms that want to grow and then figure out, they’re like, “Why am I stuck? Why can’t I get people to join it?” Because it’s about more, like you’ve got to paint the picture a bit and invest in people to get there. Do you guys have any additional thoughts just around that topic while we’re on it?
Matt Rowley: I do, but, Daveda, go ahead, please.
Daveda Phillips: Oh no, you go ahead, Matt.
Matt Rowley: Okay. I do. That was $25,000, for the record, no benefits. Zero benefits. Zero. Just straight $25,000 a year. Very quickly, I saw her potential. Very quickly, she made an impact. And to this day, Daveda has never, and I would feel bad if she ever did have to ask me for a raise. I would feel like I’m missing. And I think of all the moments in the business, I think maybe aside from that leap of faith in starting it, I think that hiring Daveda was probably maybe our number one key moment. I think that that’s where things really changed, not just because of the mentality of hiring, but also because of what she brought to the team that wasn’t there, that we just needed. And we came out of the gate strong. I was new to the industry, newly licensed.
I put myself back against the wall at some advice that I’ve gotten from some people who’ve done bold things. And I made a bold claim in front of a group that I would try to set the record for the group that I was in for the first year in the business. And we did.
Brad Johnson: Was that 2018, or what year was that?
Matt Rowley: That was 2018.
Brad Johnson: So, 2018. And I’m just looking at your numbers here for context for the listeners and viewers. So, you basically went from a non-existent business, started at the end of 2017, to 13.3 million of assets in the very first year that you were ever open.
Matt Rowley: Yeah. I looked it up, my very first seminar. I looked it up yesterday. My very first seminar ever was November 1st.
Brad Johnson: Of 2017?
Matt Rowley: Yep. And then we did 2018, and like for the record, for the people out there, like I was in a side, an empty side office that was an exit room, like a pass-through fire code room at a business, and another financial firm with their name on it. And I had to walk people in through their office into this back corner that literally had a…
Brad Johnson: You’re walking them through a competitor’s office to get to your office, basically.
Matt Rowley: Yes.
Brad Johnson: You had the deck stacked against you.
Matt Rowley: All we had was a conference table, a whiteboard on the wall. This is no exaggeration, not even art, like a whiteboard on the wall, and a two-drawer little wood thing that we could put our laptops and our almonds into the drawer while we were having a meeting. When people were there, our conference table was a conference table. When they weren’t, it was a desk. And that’s where we closed the Herners. That’s where we closed the Nelsons, and McCullens, the early people. They chose to trust us in that setting, which blows my mind.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. So, let’s go down that path because time is ticking, and there are so many lessons along your journey, and I want to get to them. Be doing everybody a disservice if we don’t. So, I’m going to kind of rattle off some growth for context for everybody. So, you just laid it out, kind of nothing to 13.3 million in 2018. Daveda, at what stage in 2018 did you join? Was it beginning of the year? Middle of the year? Where’d you come on board?
Daveda Phillips: November 1st, 2018,
Brad Johnson: Oh, you came on at the end. So, Matt was kind of running solo with another partner of sorts at the time. Okay. So, I’m assuming some things are starting to break by the end of that year with running that fast, Matt, but just give context, and then we’ll maybe, I think we just go back and kind of pluck out some inflection points and some learnings along the way, is always helpful. So, 13.3. 2019, we go to $17.8 million of new assets, obviously, primarily annuities and insurance at that stage. 2020…
Matt Rowley: 100% annuities.
Brad Johnson: So, 2020, we add the security side. You start managing assets, so 11 million insurance, 6 million AUM. Does that sound about right?
Matt Rowley: No. No. It was 17. In that, 17.8 was all annuity business. So, what happened, the partner I had was supposed to start AUM once we got annuities established, and he’d run the back office for an office in Houston. And the interesting thing is he was constantly, and there’s a reason I’m bringing this up, he was constantly comparing us to this office in Houston that he had worked for a while and their numbers. And he was beating up on me that I wasn’t closing enough. It was very interesting. But we decided the interesting thing is we brought Daveda in November. November 2nd of 2018, Daveda started with us.
And this isn’t to be negative on anybody, but that partner was happy. He was content. We’d done enough. He made enough. He didn’t see any reason to hustle or work harder, and I had to fight literally to even get him to agree to spending money to buy a phone system for our office. We’d been using our speaker phone on cell phones, right?
Brad Johnson: Can I ask a question on that?
Matt Rowley: Please do. Yeah.
Brad Johnson: So, were you the sales guy in this partnership? So, of that 17.8 million, you basically were the one that brought all of those people on?
Matt Rowley: I did 100% of the sales meetings that brought on the client.
Brad Johnson: Another lesson here, and I’ve seen this. Nobody gets into a partnership and says, “Hey, let’s screw this structure up,” but sometimes it accidentally happens, right? And you think about it like, “He doesn’t want to spend money because he’s driving revenue off of your sales.” It’s like, “Oh, hey Matt. Yeah, go pop another couple of seminars, do another 5 million,” and like, here’s his side of the equation where the money’s just flowing in. And I’ve seen that really unintentionally divide a lot of partnerships because it’s like, it’s not fair and equitable where both sides are doing the same work, you know? And so, back to just another learning along the way is when you get into partnerships, they’re hard enough when you are all on the same page, but just making sure the structure is built for the long haul, and like future casting it. I’m assuming it’s one of the things that came out of that.
Matt Rowley: Yeah. It was very clear we had different visions for the future. And he was more than fine, like most would be to sit back and collect a fat paycheck while I did all the work, right? And we hired Daveda to take the back office and for her to learn that from him, so he could start AUM. That was his responsibility. And to Daveda’s credit, I mean, when she came in, she didn’t even have a desk. She didn’t even have an office. She was literally sharing a desk and sharing an office, and sitting in. She knew nothing of the industry, and she just went full in. And to fast forward and get to the important points, I had to make the first real big hard sacrifice. And I had to talk to that partner, and end things with the partner.
I say, “Hey, either we are going to grow and go forward or not.” And we had our biggest client event of the year the next day, and he decided to not show up and just leave us hanging. During that, 2019, we had hired Samantha, which was a huge, huge thing also. Daveda, pretty much, I mean, there’s so much to unpack here. I feel like we’re doing a disservice, but the long story short, Brad, he didn’t end up getting his AUM license. Daveda had already fully replaced him, and we realized he wasn’t passing and wasn’t passing and wasn’t passing the test. And so, finally, I had to go to Daveda one day and say, “Hey, I know you came into this partnership, but I need you to be able to trust you here. We’re about to split ways, and I would love it if you would stay on board and if we kept pushing this vision forward together.” And that’s been Daveda from the beginning. That’s been Sammy from the beginning. They’ve been awesome and loyal.
Brad Johnson: I want to share another thing there, and we’ve learned this the hard way at Triad as well. I mean, we’re coming up on five years in, and I think in the early days, a lot of founders, and I did a podcast on this, and just the language that you use internally matters. And I know you guys have spent a lot of work on that and saying things intentionally that align with the vision versus accidentally, right? And one of the things I see happen, it’s like we’re a family when we start, and you’re like, “Hey, this is the such and such family here.” Like the Triad fam, we set it back in the early days. But what you realize, unfortunately, in business, if I have a fight with my brother, I don’t write my brother off and like, “See you, you’re not my brother anymore.” I mean, I know that does happen in life, unfortunately, but it’s like you work through stuff as a family.
In business, it’s more you’re the team, and you all have to be aligned. And what was happening there is there was misalignment. He wanted to go left, you wanted to go right. That’s never going to work. And so, what you did is you said, “Well, this is the path I’m on, and the structure’s not right.” And, unfortunately, that season of partnership, he’s not a bad human. It was just misalignment. And I see a lot of founders and teams unintentionally get misaligned, but then they don’t course-correct it. And so, you were willing to have the tough conversation, say, “Hey, you’re going this way, I’m going that way.” And then have a real conversation with Daveda, “Are you on board with this because this is where I’m headed?”
Back to vision, like I know it’s like a woo-woo term in business, and people are like, “Oh, vision. Yeah.” No, like this stuff matters. And if you don’t have it, you don’t have alignment. Daveda, having that right hand that is execution has been one of the, if I look at theses in the top growing financial services firms in Triad and just in the industry, Matt vision, Matt inspiration, typically founder sales-driven, but right hand that is execution. Let’s go back to those early days, and I’m going to preview this real quick. So, we went 13.3, 17A at AUM, stay about 20-ish, but half is FIA, half is AUM, 14.5 million, 12.8. Like, we’re continuing to scale and grow. What was your side of that, like kind of the bumps along the road where you’re like adding team members, 3, 4, 6, 8? How did that play out on the execution side?
Daveda Phillips: Oh, sorry. Like, the execution of just getting all of that? 2019 was an insane year as far as for events and what we were doing. So, 2019 was so high. 2020 was when COVID hit, and that’s when I think we had to shift. So, there was a big separation, misalignment, and then a whole direction for that. But that I feel like my biggest learning in the industry was in those years where I was taking in everything, finding out the best way to do it, the best way to navigate the business that we’re bringing in, making sure that everything, our clients were taken care of. And that’s when we did have Samantha, and Samantha is amazing at client services, and both of us just tag-teaming and making sure that these people were taken care of.
So, from an execution standpoint, we were hustling, right? Like, we were making sure that every touchpoint, that nothing fell through the cracks. And so, when you’re doing it all yourself and you’re wearing the multiple hats, it’s whatever comes your way and making sure, and you’re just invested into it. And it was challenging, but super fun, I think, too, looking back at it, right?
Brad Johnson: It’s kind of that startup mentality. It takes a special person to join a small team, and you are like wearing all the hats, right? I mean, I’m looking at the seminar numbers you guys gave. I mean, 59, 62 seminars a year in those early days that had to do. I mean, Matt, I know that was a toll on you. You’re missing some of the stuff that you didn’t want to miss, right, to grow the business.
Matt Rowley: A hundred percent. And the other thing that we need to point out is we are in Boise, and we had a one-trick pony kind of marketing program that was just seminars. We couldn’t do the numbers we wanted to do just in Boise. So, we had to pick up an office in Reno, also. And so, that’s a six and a half hour drive each way. So, Daveda was doing that with us, too.
Brad Johnson: So, you all are taking like six and a half hour road trips to go from office A to office B.
Matt Rowley: Yeah. 13 hours round trip. And there literally are days, like, not weeks, but days, where we’ll wake up one day, drive there, have to handle stuff, do a full workday, and drive back that same day to be back in Boise in time for things that we had scheduled and planned.
Brad Johnson: What did you learn from those? I mean, I’m sure people listening and watching are like, number one, they’re like, “Why would you do that business model?” Number two, they’re like, “Wow, what a grind.” What did you learn? Like, going back, if you could give yourself advice during that period, what’d you learn or take away from that that impacted where you’re at today?
Matt Rowley: It’s easy. Hindsight’s always 20/20. I think my tendency would be to beat myself up a little bit and say, “Hey, why did you do that?” But I did that because I didn’t know any better. I was new to the industry. I knew one program, and it worked, and it was changing my family’s lives, and it was changing my team’s lives. And so, I had a responsibility to deliver on what we said we were going to do. And if that’s what it took to deliver, then that’s what it took to deliver. But I’m not going to not deliver because just like Daveda and Sammy are dedicating and putting, I mean, when they’re gone, their families are suffering too, not just mine, right?
So, at this point, I’m recognizing, “Hey, this is way bigger than just me.” I need to deliver for everybody, not just for myself. And we couldn’t do that without the Reno office, the way that our marketing was structured. It was 100% because of marketing that we had to do that.
Brad Johnson: You kind of went back to that farm boy mentality of like, “Well, there’s a whole field with a bunch of rocks in it. I guess I’m just going to pick them up,” right? Yeah.
Matt Rowley: Yep. And it was that lean and mean growing up around and seeing that as success. And I needed that to get me started in the game. But then I had the lesson to learn that that’s not the way to do things, too.
Brad Johnson: Yeah.
Matt Rowley: And that’s why I say Daveda and Sammy paid the price for that lesson along with me. And our families did too. And so, I can’t ignore that. I can’t ignore that now that things run differently, I can’t forget that. And I do think that my advice would be invest in your team, and that lean and mean isn’t necessarily the best way to go. It’s good, it works to get started, and you probably do need that a little bit in the early days, but you’ve got to let go of that, and you’ve got to feed the goose. You’ve got to feed the goose. And I don’t have a problem doing that at all. And so, that’s a lesson that I learned the hard way, unfortunately. My team learned the hard way with it because of me.
Brad Johnson: Well, there is a happy ending to this story, and I know the cool thing I love about both of you, you’ve very much embraced the mentality we say here at Triad. Check your ego at the door. You’re a lifelong learner. You’ve never arrived. And I remember, Matt, the first time, I think we were in New York at like a stock exchange event with one of our partners. And I remember walking down the road with you and having a conversation. You were telling me about the podcast that you did turn that time in a car into a university. You were talking about the audiobooks, the podcast that you listen to. So, you were a student that was constantly growing and evolving, which I found that to be very common in top performers in our space.
So, fast forward, the last couple of years, 2023-2024. We’re three-quarters of the way through 2025 as we record this. You crossed through that inflection point of $30 million of total assets as a firm each of the last two years. And this year, I know, typically we’re going into the season where a lot of business is done towards the end of the year. So, my gut tells me, with how you’re lining up, you’re already on the doorstep of 30 million. I have a feeling you’re going to just blow through your biggest year ever this year. How is life now? Because I know there are a lot of advisors. It’s like in the early days, it’s, I, me, I got to grind it. It’s like the hustle mentality.
You’ve now broken through a ceiling, grown the team. The business is higher than it’s ever been. How’s the life balance? Is it starting to create freedom as you grow a business bigger than yourself? What’s that look like?
Matt Rowley: Are you up for answering that one first, Daveda?
Brad Johnson: Daveda, yeah, she’s been there the whole way, so I’d love to hear her take, too.
Matt Rowley: Yeah.
Daveda Phillips: I think, obviously, with obstacles and challenges and once we overcome it, and I think once, honestly, Matt, when we got introduced to Triad, he wanted to, he’s like, we need to take this trip. And I’ll be very honest, I was very reluctant. I was hesitant. I was like, if you give me one more change that we have to do this right now, I think I might burst. But he was like, please just trust me on this. Like, I think we need to go. And so, I said, okay. And so, when we went and we sat. Actually, it all started in my head, when we got to the hotel and I saw all the small things that I used to do for guests, and then it was being done for me and I was like, oh. I can’t even argue right now. I have nothing right now to argue because it’s almost that I told you so that it was good, it was positive. And so, when we sat into the room with Triad and they were able to show us a little bit of reflection on our business of how we’re doing, and that was, I think, 2022, or it was a ‘22 or ‘23, Matt, it was 20…
Matt Rowley: ‘23.
Daveda Phillips: Yeah, thank you, ‘23. It was something that we got to realize and then fix our business model as that and fix just a little bit, alter just our team structure. And that’s when we really expanded and not just had a hierarchy of just a mentality where Matt was the owner of everything, the decision maker. It was embracing more of that empowerment and that was there, but it was just a little bit more, hey, this is okay to be yourselves and this is okay to have these values and not settle and to know that we were supposed to do that. So, after that and once we rebranded, and I feel like once we’ve expanded and once we actually dove into what we believe in, with Triad’s assistance as well, I feel like we are gaining the momentum in the vision that we’ve actually wanted to do in the first place.
So, that’s, I think, where the direction is. So, when you’re saying, hey, how is this now? It’s really good. It’s really amazing to see such a– like it’s blossoming, right? It’s like a flower that’s just starting to open because of the nourishment and everything that we’ve done in order to cater to that, and then adding the significant key players that are on our team and taking care of our clients in the way that we have always wanted to take care of them has allowed us to have more of that balance and more of the business that I think Matt wanted to create in the first place.
Matt Rowley: For everybody.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. Before I get your take on that, Matt, one of the things you just touched on, Daveda, that I love from my experience, most founders like Matt, it’s not some, I mean, there’s a minority that do hold onto control, but most, they actually want to take things off their plate and give away control. They just typically don’t have a blueprint to build it. So, it’s kind of like, oh, appointments today, oh, seminar tonight. And they’re just running around like a crazy person because there’s just a lot going on.
And once you start to explore, is there a way, a framework to build it in a more intentional way where I empower the team, give them career tracks, and run it like a business owner? Not like a financial advisor that’s really busy on the daily. It’s almost like this whole ‘nother world opens up. And that’s kind of what I heard you explain. It wasn’t Matt holding onto things, he just, it’s like, what is the playbook to run with a little bit? Matt, I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but that’s just what I’ve seen a lot over the years. What are your thoughts or what’s your take on that?
Matt Rowley: I think that’s very accurate. I think Daveda did a great job articulating it. The only thing I worry about, Brad, is there’s so much depth and context and richness with Daveda and with Sammy, and now with Jalen and with Zoey, but especially with Daveda and Sammy, I cannot properly communicate the experience that we’ve been through. I cannot properly communicate like they should have quit on me a hundred times and never did. And they’ve dealt with my weaknesses, just like I’ve dealt with theirs, man. They deal with it just as bad if not more. And so, like, I just think, it’s like we have to recognize, right? It’s not a dream if it doesn’t take a team, right? It takes a team, but it matters just as much for them as for us. It needs to be just as much about them as it is about us. And I think that’s another lesson I learned the hard way. Unfortunately. I guess it’s better late than never, but we recognize we had some limitations because of the way our marketing was done. We recognized that it didn’t fit with us. We went to a different organization, FMO, to learn things. And we had a moment that was serendipitous and also kind of kicked me in the teeth a little bit too, where at this new FMO, we had a really great year. We go up on stage, hey, you did 32 million this year.
And what was serendipitous? If you recall, my partner used to always compare me to this guy from Houston that he worked for. And I was on the stage with him and I was just one person ahead of them. I had beat him in both annuity and both– I don’t mean that as an ego thing. I meant that as holy crap, I made it here with that guy, right? I’m standing ahead of that guy, like, I’m doing it. It’s real. And so, that was exciting. But then the way that they did things, that they would bring that person up and that person would bring their team up. And the five people before us brought their team up. I went up, just me and one other person because I didn’t know that the team could go. And then the five people after me all brought their team up. And their teams were all 10, 12, 15 people and there were three of us or four of us.
Brad Johnson: Yeah.
Matt Rowley: That’s that lean and mean. And it was leading me the wrong way. It was the wrong path. And I had to recognize that and say, that’s not a badge of honor. That’s kind of dumb, and that’s not the right way to do it. And I had to come back and make changes. And that’s what got us thinking about Triad. And I would say one more thing and then I’m good on that. With the decision even to change FMOs, let’s talk about it, right? I didn’t just do it. I brought the team into a meeting. The first time I said, hey, I don’t think where we are is where we want to go long term. And it would be really uncomfortable and you’d probably take some steps back to leave. But long term where we want to be, I think this is one of the uncomfortable steps we have to take.
And the team all voted and bought in, and we went forward with that together. And then the same thing, we recognized, hey, we’ve seen some growth, but there’s still just something missing. And from what I had been hearing, Triad could offer that. And we had a Monday morning meeting, I said, “Hey guys, you’re going to hate me for this, but I really think we need to– I know we just did a change a few years ago, but I think we need to consider another one.” And I asked, “Can I have your buy-in to consider it?” And like always, Daveda said, “I don’t love it, but let’s look at it,” right? And Sammy just bought in and literally, you couldn’t invent it any better. We ended the meeting and the phone rang and it was Collin. And so, I said, “Yeah, I will talk to him.” I told him, “You’ve got the best timing in the world, my friend. Let’s schedule a visit now.”
And I’ve got to say something that’s been huge that we’ve learned a lot and now, we have the language to be able to speak around it, thanks to Triad. We really embraced Enneagrams and understanding each other and how we could use that to help our culture. And I’m a hardcore 3, like got 100 out of 100 on the 3 on the Enneagram test, and I’m pretty close to an 8. And as we all know, can be that bull in the China shop going forward. And at first, I was bothered by Daveda challenging me all the time because she’s an 8, she’s a challenger. And I recognized that she was doing it for my own good, but I would feel annoyed by it, be like, “Okay, let’s talk about it anyway. Here we go.” That’s not my attitude anymore. That changed a long time ago. When Daveda challenges, I say, “Okay, good. Please tell me what you have to say,” because I think it’s important we have that person that will push back on us and tell us when our ideas are bad and when our kid’s ugly. You know what I mean? Like we need that a little bit. And she does it in such a tactful and kind way. And she was patient with me for years while I figured that out.
And so, the challenge, I would say that a person that pushes back on you value them and having an 8 is uncomfortable as a 3 because they’re trying to make sure you structure things the right way and you just want to go forward. But if you’re a 3 like me, find an 8, find a challenger and lean into that. It will be a huge game changer for you.
Daveda Phillips: And not to cut you off, just make sure that it’s with good intention, right? That it’s with good intention and in the right way, right?
Matt Rowley: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: Well, you’re hitting a few things here. So, first off, back to growth, I remember early in a coaching session, Shawn and I had with Michael Hyatt. This is probably the first year of Triad. He’s a 3, I’m a 7. We communicate very differently. What’s funny is we’ve never really had a misalignment of vision. It’s like the misalignment might be how to get there, what’s the path we take, right? And I remember him saying, “Hey, guys, don’t ever forget this. Your differences are your strength, not a weakness.” But it doesn’t feel like it when you got that debate going on, right, internally. And I want to circle back because you said this, Matt.
So, culture fit, yes, you and Daveda were aligned, like kind of the heart of the mission was there. Skill set, she came in and quickly grew and had that passion for growth and learning, right? One thing I’ve come to that we didn’t appreciate in the early days of Triad that we index a lot more now when we hire, loyalty. Are they here for the good times and the bad? And when it comes to a founder, because we’ve had a few, they weren’t here for the tough times. And as soon as the going got tough, they were out the door. And if you’re going to build anything that matters, a business of significance, as we say, you’re going to have some tough times. That’s not easy to do. There are tough days.
And I just love, like, because you knew, as we used to say back in the day, ride or die, Daveda was ride or die. And now, you can trust and you can empower and you can say, we’re going to battle through this. And we might have a few of these. And the other saying that you brought to mind, dissent and commit. Daveda trusted you. She’s like, I don’t know, I don’t want another change. It’s already hard enough on the day-to-day. But you know what, Matt? I trust you in your vision as a founder. I’m going to kind of dissent. I don’t really want to take this trip, but I’ll try to be open-minded about it.
And then probably Kenzie dropped you a housewarming gift in the hotel room and like, okay, maybe they’re not so bad of people over here, right? But there’s just so many little mini lessons sprinkled through there that you all hit that are just inflection points. If you’re going to build a team, you got to be willing. It’s all about communication and leaning in and getting to know each other and hashing through those difficult conversations. It sounds like you all have really grown there and made an intention to grow there.
Matt Rowley: Yeah. One thing that I feel I really need to say too, Daveda wasn’t resisting change because she’s resistant to change. Let me paint a real-world picture. Again, my partner was supposed to get his license, didn’t, so I just buckled down and studied and got it done. Daveda helped me wander into AUM totally blind and new. She went through that with me. So, Daveda’s running everything AUM based. She’s doing all of the transfers. She’s managing the team, she’s managing me, right, dealing with the founder, which isn’t always easy. She’s doing the marketing, scheduling events. She’s setting appointments for me. And Sammy’s doing that same type of thing. Really, truly, Daveda was wearing five or six different hats. So, when I say, hey, let’s talk about switching to a different IMO, I’m just adding to a plate that is already overflowing and way too full. And she still– so she was smart enough to say, hey, wait a minute, we got to be careful with our resources here, but she still went along and just calling back to that. So, she wasn’t being difficult. She was doing exactly what we hired her to do, which is run and look out for business.
Daveda Phillips: I do, I do. I said with the growth and Samantha was also right by our side, right, just working through all of this, I think we all had an alignment and a partnership mentality and ownership mentality that we were able to do that, right? So, I mean, I remember even, and I’m sure Matt can attest to this too, Samantha during COVID and 2020 hit right after the partnership split. And she’s like, I’m in this. I’m in this with you. I want to be here for you. And I think that it really does come with just the growth of our relationship and the foundation that Matt built, right? So, like, hey, this is the vision. It goes back to the rebranding. It goes back to what the original vision was, is that I think that the key players that we’re hiring, the key players that are a part of this all really want to be part of that solid foundation, that vision that is going somewhere. I think, the people that we also bring on right now are completely engaged in that same type of mentality. So, yes, leading by example is one of them, right? Matt’s leading by example. He’s setting the tone. He has that presence, and then, yes, I’m a part of that vision. I help execute it. Samantha, just as for execution, helps support and is the peacemaker actually, and then everyone that we’ve added after that has had that same type of mentality. So, it’s more of just, we embrace it and I think that that’s where the growth has come from.
Brad Johnson: Well, another thing, and a lot of founders screw this up. I mean, I can think of two examples recently where I saw this screwed up. For a team to follow a leader, I don’t care if it’s in the military on the battlefield or in business, you have to trust, there’s like a high level of trust and you can’t dishonor that trust. It’s like, hey, Matt, I’ll follow you, but don’t burn me or don’t do the bait and switch on me, right? And I know all founders can be guilty of that because we’re all running a million miles an hour, but the saying, if you help plan the battle, you don’t battle the plan, right?
And what Matt said is he brought you into that conversation as a team member. Hey, here’s what I’m thinking. I think this might be something we need to get where we want to go, but I want you along for the ride and I want your feedback. So, I value your opinion. You’re a valuable team member here. Let’s go explore this together, not founder disappears on a trip and comes back and says, here’s the plan, team. And that was one of the things we screwed up early. We said, if we’re going to help firms build a business of significance, that is a business that’s bigger than themselves that requires a team, it’s we and us, not I and me, which is one of the worst diseases in finance that gets people stuck. And we said, Jude, if you’re listening, the very first person that ever came into Triad headquarters, he came in, husband, wife, they’re now Triad members today. But it took about a two-year delay because what happened is they came in and they’re like, we’re in. Triad’s the place. They went home, told their team, their team revolted. Like, we’re not– back to everything you just said, Matt, don’t you know all the new business paperwork we’ve got? We got all this AUM stuff. And they just start going down the list.
And what we realize, because we’re trying to grow and get better here, we’re like, we screwed this up. If we’re going to grow a team, we have to bring the team into the conversation. They have to be part of it. And I can think here recently, testament to you, Matt, you brought the team in, you valued the team’s feedback, you listened to them. It wasn’t just a show of theater, like you actually cared what they had to say. And we’ve actually had that. I’ve seen it here recently, where we had a founder that came in the conference room. The team voted unanimous, let’s go. And then they went back and told their current partner, hey, we’re leaving. And of course, that’s when the dog and pony show, the wine and cheese, all this stuff gets pulled out. And then they’re like, never mind, team, we’re going to stay.
And their team’s like, what? We just all unanimously voted. And now, you breach that trust. And that’s the thing, as a founder, it is, like, that is the sin in business is breach your team’s trust because now, they can’t trust a word you say. And so, testament to you to not only bring them in, but also when the vote was made to follow through because we all know, those are hard conversations regardless of what side you’re on, on those. And I just think there’s a massive lesson there for all leaders and their teams. And I don’t know if that’s continued to play out in other things as you all have grown and scaled. Have you seen other versions of that where it’s like, ah, you know what? I committed this to the team so it sucks, but we’re going to push forward through those tough decisions.
Matt Rowley: Yeah. I want to answer this. This is something I feel strongly about. Our employees matter way more than our biggest client, way more than our biggest client, and they’re the ones hustling, helping you accomplish your dream. And if it’s not helping them accomplish their dream, why in the world would they be committed to you, right? Like, don’t use them and don’t let them use you. Go together and win together.
2020 was the scariest year in my life. Daveda loved it because we had less transfer and she had less on her plate, but we lost our only– we only did dinner seminars and COVID hit, like, you’re done. And now, I had two employees in an office in Reno, an office here. And so, I mean, God was giving us a way to keep going. We’d have a client that got an inheritance that month and we made it for the month. And then we had that. Founders can do what they think, but I’ve always kept a year’s worth of operating expenses available. And if our salary goes up, then my savings for that needs to go up because they need to know that they’re secure and stable with you, even if things get weird. And they never missed any payments. They never went without. And by the grace of God, we never had to go into our savings account to pay ourselves.
Now, did that mean that I went a few months without pay? You bet. But we get a lot of privileges and a lot of rewards as a founder. And it’s on us to take that if it goes the other way, if it goes negative, if we have a bad month. The team should eat first. The team should get paid first. That’s what I think. And I think that we should be as generous with them as they are with us. If we have people that are so committed to us, that person should never have to ask for a raise, in my opinion. And they shouldn’t have to ask for certain things. We should look out for them and care for them the way we would in a client.
And I just really feel that we are responsible to make sure that we deliver on what we tell our team we’re going to do, that if we tell them, hey, we’re going to help you become the best version of yourself that we invest enough in that to be make good on, and Daveda’s been a huge partner in that and Sammy’s been a huge partner in that, in delivering for our other team members and making sure that they’re becoming the best version of themselves. And so, I just want to point that out, like the privileges, but we are responsible to make sure we take that.
Brad Johnson: Well, what I hear you say, that’s servant leadership. And another disease I see happen a lot, it’s the king or queen on a throne. And it’s like, here is my team that serves me. I’ve seen that a lot in our space. And by the way, that’s what leads to turnover. That’s what leads to like, oh, this is all about them, ego-driven businesses. We see that a lot in finance, unfortunately. But when you flip it and say, when I grow a team, I actually now go to the bottom as a leader and I’m there to support and grow. And I’ll tell you, that’s the people that have teams that want to run through a brick wall for them when the going gets tough because it does. It’s only a matter of time in business, there will be a curve ball that’s coming. You just don’t know when. And so, I loved to hear you kind of put that in your own words.
The clock is ticking here, so I’m going to pivot, and this has been awesome around vision, culture, which by the way, that’s where it all starts. Without that, you’re just like every other business out there. You’re a commodity. You’re just another financial services firm. Let’s go to, you’ve done some really cool things, Daveda. This might be a little bit more on your side of the house. One of the questions we did, kind of prepping for this, is breakthroughs around building your team, your culture. And you had some kind of inflection points. I feel proud. Some of these were people we introduced you to, Joey Coleman creating that client experience, both external and internal; Will Guidara, Unreasonable Hospitality, I know you all have infused some of that, not just on your team, but externally, I’m sure with your clients as well; Michael Hyatt, the mastermind that you were in. So, what are some, like, if you’re like, hey, here’s some nuggets for advisors out there, because we all know that advisors love a little shiny object or two, what are some things that were like, hey, this was something we implemented that made a big game changer just down that path?
Daveda Phillips: And for Joey Coleman, I feel like he had a lot of things to say from an employee standpoint, and there were some questions where he would say, hey, this person is asking, based on salary or this or, but let’s break it down. And it was more informative, it was more intentional of like, maybe stay curious and not critical, right? So, I feel like that has been a motto in our whole office, like, hey, we’re not going to shoot here all these questions to assume that this has been handled, not in the best way, but we are actually, help me understand this, help me explain this to me. And then the approach is a lot more just sensitive to what you’re going to get back as the answer, right? So, we can guide with care because sometimes what we’re seeing, perception is reality, right? It’s not always the case. It’s not always reality. And when you’re clarifying that, that is something that I feel like he was able to bring to the table.
Will Guidara, goodness, our touch points, when we actually explored all the touch points from start to finish, we saw areas of opportunity for us to be better, right? How can we effectively do this? We actually implemented a retirement program that when they retire, we have glasses to give them now, right? And we did a whole, in our conference room, set up a beautiful, just array of breakfast depending on the time of day, some fruits, and then had all the team come in, have the glasses with either appletinis or martinis apple. It’s like the non-alcoholic one, or if it was alcoholic and we all cheered and celebrated that moment.
Brad Johnson: So, can I dive into that, because that’s such a cool idea? I’ve heard the idea of, hey, when somebody retires in your office, you obviously help them get there. Now, let’s celebrate it where you pop a bottle of champagne, depending on their preferences. So, now, you’ve incorporated their own stemware, like champagne glasses. And part of that was inspired by Will Guidara to where now, the team’s coming in, toasting them. I’m sure, how many times have you done this out of curiosity? How long have you been running with this idea?
Daveda Phillips: I think we’ve done it two times because retirements are– but the one time that we did it, actually, our Director of First Impressions, Liliana, she wrapped it in gold paper. The ones that are taking home put a bow on it, presented it to them. But then we had glasses in the office that we were still– so we still provided them with a gift and had them just come in and we took 10 to 15 minutes to just say happy retirement. And it was everybody in the office, we dedicated the time, right? So, we’re not booking anything else or anyone else. Nothing else is more important than this moment. And we were able to do that, and the way she executed it, like, what glasses and how we’re going to present it? She even did it for a Monday morning meeting. This is what I’ve been working on, and was able to present it to us as, wow, this is what we’re going to be doing and this is what I was a part of that I was able to pick these glasses out and this is how I’d like to present it. And did a phenomenal job. And it was obviously inspired by Will Guidara, implemented into our office. Now, we’re doing it and it is a big inspiration.
Brad Johnson: Well, number one, I’m kind of getting chills here, and you like, share that, and I think we’ll share Maya Angelou quote, it’s not what you do or what you say, it’s how you make people feel that they remember. I always think about, can you create an experience for someone that when they’re thinking back those moments that matter, mark the moment? Retirement is a massive moment in people’s lives. And they can look back and like, oh, the moment we retired, like it was official. Bottle pops. Team rolls in. I’m assuming, like, you keep doing these, tears are going to be flowing if they haven’t already. And that is a moment they will tell their family about. And now, you’re part of that story. And to me, there’s sales, there’s marketing. That right there, that’s how you drive referrals. You create, you mark the moments like that. Give them something to talk about because you were intentional. You cared. And so, I just love that. That’s such a cool idea. I love that you were inspired and took that and ran with it. How was it received on the other side, the couple of times you’ve done it?
Daveda Phillips: It was good. It was really good. And it was almost like a surprise too, because they weren’t really expecting it, right? And I think that they took it all in. And Brad, not to deter that, but we also– there was one other client that I think has more of like an effect where we bought them a birthday cake and it was his birthday, the day of coming into appointment, and we all were standing there awkwardly, of course, right, and then singing him Happy Birthday. And he said that was the best gift of his whole day, of his whole– like, he just said, “That meant so much to me.” So, I feel like, once again, with Will Guidara with just elevating that experience, we treat the highest clients with the utmost care, but it’s also like team members too. So, we really try to do it across the board. Hey, we’re doing this big celebration. Let’s do a big celebration for them. Let’s do this, right? So, let’s mirror images for both sides of who’s working side by side and who we’re working with, right?
Brad Johnson: Well, and it’s fun. Like, that’s fun as a team. It’s fun to do it for your team. It’s fun to do it external. And I was just thinking, retirement is scary. I mean, you think about it, a lot of people have worked in the same job for 20 years, or maybe they’re a business owner and that’s their identity, and now they’re leaving it behind. And unfortunately, as people age, you have less friends because people pass away. You’re not going to the kids’ ball games every Friday night with all your other kids’ parents. And so, it can get a little lonely. And you created a community for them that is your team. It’s like, you matter, we care, you’re seen. Every human wants that at their core. So, I love that you’re intentionally creating that along the way. And I can’t wait to see what else y’all dream up as the team gets bigger and you keep executing on that. Well, before we get to the final question, because Matt, I know you’ve got a big day with the family, so I don’t want to hold you up from that. Any closing thoughts just on the business front before we get a little more to the do life side?
Matt Rowley: I’ve won. I’ve won.
Brad Johnson: Okay.
Matt Rowley: I just want to be real. I’ve paid very, very close attention to the community members at Triad, and I know you, you must already know this, but they all go through a similar journey, where they hire, they have to get rid of some people that maybe aren’t A players, bring on more A players, they have a few years of that, and then they go from the type of production that we’ve been doing, say, 20 or 30 or 40 million, and you see all of them make this jump to 60 or 70 and then to 100 plus. They’ve all done that. And like, each of them has done that. I’ve asked them, I’ve talked to them about it.
And I think, obviously, I would be putting those people up on stage and be like, here, how did you do it? Let’s share. I want to be the guy that’s in the middle, that’s not there yet, that maybe we’re starting to get there and see some of those things, but I want to be the one to say, hey, it’s tough. Like, we’ve gotten our teeth kicked in a bit. We’ve had some of the hardest days we’ve had in the last few years. We’ve had some of the most uncomfortable conversations we’ve had in the last few years. And we’ve also seen the most growth and we’ve also seen our business come together the way that we had it up here. It’s starting to feel the way that we want it to feel, and we’re seeing progress and growth as a result of that, but it’s a good year to have just grinding. And I can’t speak for other offices, but Ryan said that we did a pretty good job implementing things and being students.
Brad Johnson: For sure.
Matt Rowley: But I think that that’s helped, but just know, like, hey, it just is hard. I believe that it’s worth it.
Brad Johnson: You mentioned Ryan. He said this the other day and it stuck with me because we talked about the red line of burnout, which was basically that six-and-a-half-hour drive and 50, 60 seminars, small team. You were doing numbers. I mean you were doing numbers, but it was, you’re the card tapping the RPMs at the top, right? There was no more of you to give, yeah.
And to your point, Matt, and I’ve really come to know this the last couple years as I’ve observed the community and what’s working and what’s not because if we’re going to have member obsession, I have to also take feedback, right, as a founder here, and we have to adapt. We’re a company just like you guys and we call it the green line of significance, which is building a business bigger than yourself, growing the team, empowering the team, and going from financial advisor to business owner to CEO, right? All so hard. And it’s like, to Ryan’s point, he said this the other day, I was like, dang, that was good, bro. He’s like, choose your hard. Do you want the hard that’s you and everything on your shoulders tapping the red line? Or do you want the hard that’s us that can empower and grow a team and create freedom, but you’re going to have other issues that come along. Hey, when you have a team, personnel issues pop up. Those suck. Nobody enjoys those.
There’s more moving parts, there’s more framework required, right? So, you choose your hard, but what I love, back to the mission at the end of the day that you’re trying to do, which is serve your clients. If you believe in your product, we build great financial plans here. We help retirees get from point A to retirement. Why wouldn’t you want to do that for more people? Why wouldn’t you want to grow a business that allows you to deliver a better product more frequently to more people? And I love that you all have put in the reps and the hard work to change because, Matt, you and I have had some real combos over the years, to your point. And I love, we were both there to grow together. Even if sometimes, it was like, I don’t really want to hear that truth. Truth and love, you are always down for it. And that’s one of the reasons I love having you, having Daveda in the community because you make us better. You’ve given us feedback that we’ve grown from. And we want to do the same for you, man. That’s partnership, right, in life, so.
Oh, I just have one final question. You know what it is, I think. I would love to hear each of your versions. Daveda will say, ladies first here. What is your definition of do business, do life? We’ve talked all about it, but I’d love to hear what you have to say about it.
Daveda Phillips: So, what lights me up outside of work, obviously, it’s inside and outside, but my faith is, number one, I’m pretty obsessed with the men in my life, and that is my husband and two boys. So, they get a lot of my time and attention, but I love it. I love being part of that, which includes a lot of sports, a lot of football. And I definitely have realized, even after our trip to Maui, how much and how in love I am with the beach and the ocean. I could be in the ocean all day. Any moment like that, we were doing our conference in Maui and if I wasn’t, at least in the ocean one time, I think I had a little bit of a panic attack and I was like, I got to get back to the ocean. So, I forgot how much I love it, right, and then just being in the water. I really like traveling and taking my boys to explore new places so then they’re exposed to culture and exposed to just the world. So, that’s something that I love.
Brad Johnson: I love that.
Brad Johnson: How about you, Matt? What’s your take on do business, do life?
Matt Rowley: Man, honestly, I feel like we’ve kind of been living it since even before we met Triad. I think that if there’s one thing we’ve gotten right, that’s it. For me, I love seeing the work that we do at our business have a positive impact on our lives and I love seeing the experiences that we have in our lives have a positive impact on the business. And to me, that’s what it is, because Daveda will go have those wonderful times with her family and her boys, and they just got to do one recently. And she’ll come back and we always talk, hey, how’d it go? What’d you learn? Like, tell me some of the experiences you had. And we share that with each other. And I think we bring some of that into the business and the way we operate the team and we share our lessons outside with each other, almost every day.
And so, I think it’s that, I think it’s seeing our efforts have an impact on the way we can do life together and create experiences that just wouldn’t be there otherwise. And sometimes, that’s us individually off with our families, and we’re very fortunate that a lot of times it’s us that work together, but just doing life together, not business at all, and enjoying that in each other’s families and company that way. So, that’s kind of what it is for me.
Brad Johnson: Well, as you were talking about do business, do life, I was remembering our time honky-tonking in Nashville, where both of our wives were there. Your wife had the perfect honky-tonk outfit on. It was like a vest that was sequenced all over it. I don’t remember the exact. And I was like, okay, she likes to have fun. So, we had a blast. And to me, that’s my perfect definition of DBDL because that didn’t feel like business at all. That was just having a good time with good people. And that’s both of you. Grateful to have you in the Triad community. Thank you so much for this conversation. There is so much to take from it, so much to learn. Thanks for being real too. Like, I learned the most from not the glamor stories of here’s everything that’s going amazing, but here was the hard parts we had to battle through. And you shared a lot of those and you kept it real today. So, super grateful. And look forward to the next time we actually get to hang in person.
Matt Rowley: Likewise. Thanks for having us.
Daveda Phillips: Thank you very much. Thank you.
Brad Johnson: Until next time.
Matt Rowley: Sounds good. Thanks.
