Brad Johnson: Keith, Michelle, welcome to Do Business Do Life Live from Scale Summit Atlanta.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Thanks for having us.
Michelle Short: Thanks for having us.
Brad Johnson: Well, now we just have to figure out what we want to talk about, right?
Michelle Short: Let’s do it.
Brad Johnson: So, as we record this, April 10th, 2025, and time flies because you all were Triad member number one joined right at the end of 2020. So, we’re right at just over four years of you being Triad members and starting a really fun trend. You were ahead of the game.
Michelle Short: We were ahead of it.
Brad Johnson: You knew where this was going the whole time.
Michelle Short: Predicted the whole thing.
Brad Johnson: You had nothing but confidence.
Michelle Short: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Yeah. We saw the mission of super smart people. This chair. These two chairs.
Brad Johnson: I was going to say it wasn’t on this side.
Michelle Short: My chair too.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: That’s why I said these two chairs.
Brad Johnson: It was actually more on in this chair.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Yeah, I don’t think so.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. So, for those that aren’t familiar, you guys were actually so the guys, the three founders, Keith, Matt, Derek were our first Triad Member Spotlight, Episode 4. And then, Michelle, you were kind enough to come on and share the real truth, which I think Episode 16, where it was a lot more on the op side, the culture side.
Michelle Short: Yep. Absolutely.
Brad Johnson: And one of the things I love that you said in that is you see your client as the team, which is one of the reasons you guys have built such a really cool culture. So, I’m going to give a quick rundown over the last four years since you’ve been with Triad. So, 2021, 2022, 2023, you were bouncing right in that $240 million, $250 million range of assets gathered organically, not M&A, not acquiring a bunch of firms each of those years. And I think a lot of people hear that number, they’re like, “Wait, a quarter of a billion of assets gathered. How did you do that? But then last year, 2024, you one-upped to yourselves as a firm, brought in $380 million, a $130 million growth year. So, let’s just start there. How did you do that? That’s wild. Keith, Michelle, where are we going?
Michelle Short: Keith, where do we start?
Keith Ellis, Jr.: I mean, I think a lot of it has to do with how we built the team. Like you said, Derek, myself, Matt, then we have three other advisors as well, but each of those advisors has a team underneath them to support. So, I think where a lot of folks lose their capacity to grow is trying to do everything instead of focusing on what they’re really good at. Like, Derek, myself, Matt, and those other guys are really good at closing business. That’s what we want to be doing. We want to put each of those advisors in their position to succeed and then have the support around them because the book still needs to be serviced.
The clients still need to be loved on and that’s where Michelle and her team come in. So, there’s a lot that goes on beyond just us closing the business and running the business to create the culture, one that we have internally. But I would say also the culture that we have externally because of that 130 growth or $380 million, about a third of that was from referrals. And that just doesn’t happen overnight either, so.
Michelle Short: And I would say too, to add to that, like they’re specialists in obviously closing business, meeting with the client. We talked about it earlier in our episode, the internal client is my client. So, it’s like it allows myself and my team, the operations team, all the other teams just to really dial in on our team and make sure that we’re there supporting the business that they all bring in. So, it’s like let’s get specialists on the team. Let’s dive in, get our process so slick that when he’s producing or the team’s producing, we can just take it, own it, and then run with it so he can move on to the next.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. Well, and I think when you look at some of the best advisors, let alone SHP in the business, you’re just great with relationships and people at the end of the day. Building trust, “Hey, we’ve got you instilling that confidence,” but where oftentimes it breaks is on the back end, is delivering on the promise. Because there’s a lot of people that can sell but now how do you deliver on the promise? Hence, the backend operations side, which the cool thing is when you actually deliver on the promise, now the referrals come, right?
Keith Ellis, Jr.: That’s it.
Michelle Short: A hundred percent.
Brad Johnson: So, if we go back, so the 2021, 2022, 2023, and then 2024, how has the team grown to deliver on that promise over that time?
Michelle Short: Yeah. And I would take it back. I remember sitting in the room with these guys, Derek, Keith, Matt, and one of their biggest fears with our clients was saying we’re going to do something for our client and not being able to deliver. We like obsessed on that. It was like never going to be an issue for us because that’s where we dialed into. So, I think they’ve just allowed myself and our team to just grow. So, it’s like if you’ve identified a need on your team, it’s like, well, we’re going to hire for it. We’re going to get a specialist in that role.
We’ve all worn many hats but I think now we’re at a point where we are in full growth mode, so we’re supporting that next hire. We have a team dedicated just to planning now, which is awesome. We have a team dedicated to life insurance. Great. We’ve got our marketing team, our business development team, our new business team. We’ve got our investment committee. I mean, there are so many different teams now doing the specialists so that Keith can focus on what he needs to and run the business, same with Matt, same with Derek.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Yeah. I would say one of the things that we get asked a lot is from other folks in the Triad community, even outside is like they see the growth and they’re like, “Hey, how do you guys get so many referrals?” Because we see your growth but like you said, a lot of that…
Brad Johnson: It’s the magical referral program.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: There isn’t one. It’s called delivering on what you say you’re going to do. And then over time, people are always like, “How do you guys ask for referrals?” I’m like, “We don’t. We’ve never asked for a referral ever. Never.” And their friends see what we do for them and they feel, “Hey, look this team is topnotch. This group is a top-notch group. We want you to be part of that group. So, we want to give your name to them. Is that okay?” “Yeah.” And then they get the same treatment as that client does. So, they’re getting a reciprocal experience, and what do they do? It just kind of compounds.
Michelle Short: It’s like our clients are family, right? So, it’s like why wouldn’t they want their friends to work with family? So, we do get a lot of those folks. They’re like, “Hey, can I bring…?” You had a client once at one of our golf tournaments. We do golf tournament clients. One of your clients brought a neighbor. It’s like, “You got to meet these people. These people are top-notch. You just got to meet them.” And I’ll never forget, we’re so excited that he brought this person because we don’t ask for referrals. And this gentleman, we all took some minutes and introduced ourselves and sat and talked with him. And then at the end of the golf tournament, I’ll never forget, he’s like, “Who do I talk to schedule a meeting? Like, I need a meeting.” And we were like, “Oh, we don’t really need to do business today. This is about you. This is golf.”
Brad Johnson: Oh, on the golf course, he’s like, “How do I schedule a meeting?”
Michelle Short: Literally, yeah. So, our team went over in the corner, scheduled a meeting, and he is one of your clients now, which is really nice. That’s just one of many stories. But I think…
Brad Johnson: And it wasn’t due to Keith’s golf game. We know that.
Michelle Short: Absolutely, not.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Definitely, not
Michelle Short: Fair.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: What do I do to avoid this meeting?
Brad Johnson: Well, I think it was Steve Jobs who said the best marketing is when the product speaks for itself. Like, think of the original iPhone. Your friends would literally come and tell you about it like, “Look, this is wild what this does.” And I’ve seen a lot of advisors over the years where it’s the rip-off and duplicate model where it’s like, “Oh, I like what that advisor has on their website. Here’s their process.” SHP Retirement Blueprint, that’s your version of the Five World CFP Standard Plan. But a lot of advisors just copy-paste. It’s a marketing gimmick and there’s no follow through. In reality, they’re doing the same portfolio they’ve all always done. They didn’t actually expand on the services provided. It was kind of a marketing gimmick.
But here’s what happens when you do, it’s like that iPhone analogy. It’s like, “Oh my gosh, wait a sec. So, one-stop shopping. So, I’ve got an income plan now built to get through retirement. I’ve got an investment strategy that compliments that. Oh, you guys have tax planning that goes along with that where I can actually plan to pay less taxes in a legal way? Oh, healthcare, estate planning.” So, it’s kind of like, why would I go all over the place when I can just do it all here? And how much do you think that plays in? Or what’s like the client’s version of how they repeat that back to you?
Keith Ellis, Jr.: That’s a great question. I think a lot of it has to do with simplifying everything. And what I mean by that is during each of the meetings, people learn auditorily and visually or one or the other, and you don’t know who you’re sitting with. So, I use the board a lot and obviously speak, trying to make things as simple as possible. So, I’ll have clients that they’ll be referrals and my clients like, “Hey, I want that, that safety income thing that my friend has.” It’s like they got that very easy-to-understand investment philosophy or very easy-to-understand illustration. “Hey, Bill told me about the Five Worlds. That sounds like something we need to look at. Can we sit down with you?” “Sure.” So, it’s packaging up what you’re doing in an easy way for people to tell, I guess. I don’t know if that’s the best way to say it.
Michelle Short: No, you’re totally right. And we’re relatable, right, too. So, we take care of our clients like they would be our family. We’re very relatable and easy to work with and I think we’re very genuine people and that stems from our team, from right when you walk in the door to who you speak with on the phone to Derek, Keith, Matt, and all of our other advisory solutions team members. We are who we are like we’re very real. We’re not afraid to get emotional with our clients. We’re not afraid to be there for them during their hard times when a loss happens or they lose their job or we have good situations with them. We’re always there for them. So, I do think that helps with the referral side.
Brad Johnson: Also, I mean, you’re just super relatable. I know one of the things we say at Triad that’s really important is check your ego at the door. And you guys, I mean, I met you all when there were four guys doing 8 million, and you’re actually the same guy you were back then with a lot more success in a bigger business today. But it’s wild and I think that’s just a life lesson to not let the success get in the way.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: A hundred percent.
Michelle Short: A little less hair maybe. I’m teasing.
Brad Johnson: Oh, is this a roast now? Are we going into the roast section?
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Bring it on.
Michelle Short: No, you’re so right, though. You’re so right. And it’s so neat and I think that’s one of our fun things too like along the way, we’ve got what, 55 team members now. And it’s like you got the OGs that were there back in the day that really saw them but you’re the same person now along the way. And it’s like making sure that our team still feels the Keith Ellis or the Derek or the Matt that I felt when I started 11 years ago.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Those old stories to get to the new stories. Yeah.
Brad Johnson: All of the off-the-wall jokes that still exist today.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Yes.
Michelle Short: Absolutely.
Brad Johnson: You know what’s wild about that, Michelle, is we just had a Triad member, Chris, came up to me and he said, “Hey, don’t forget,” and he was talking about Shawn and I. And I know you all have really tried to build a business bigger than just the three of you. It’s not The Keith, Derek, Matt, and Michelle Show like, “Hey, we’re the ones like everything…” I think oftentimes that becomes an ego play. I’m the owner, I’m the founder, right? And what’s been really cool is how I’ve seen you all empower the team, grow new leaders, grow new advisors on the team. But I think what you can’t forget is you’re still the heartbeat of why the company exists. You have the original vision.
And what Chris was saying here is he’s like, “Hey, don’t forget there’s new people in the room that never heard the vision.” So, you’ve got to put that on repeat and I’ve seen you all be a lot more intentional in that over even the last couple of years. So, how does that play out on your side, Michelle, when you’re bringing a new team member on, “And here’s why we exist, here’s what SHP’s about, here’s our culture”?
Michelle Short: Absolutely. Yeah. So, when we have a new team member they’re coming on board, we’re sitting with them, we’ve developed their training schedule for the first week, two weeks, six months, a year, great. But the first week is very much some time dedicated with me, right in their first hour when they arrive giving them the tour, showing them the who’s the who, the why, the why. Why does this person sit here? And then we sit in the room and go through our vision. So, we have a three-year vision that we roll out for our team every three years. We have a culture like a culture handbook. So, we’ll sit and go through page by page and it is on repeat.
It’s like I’m repeating myself, but it’s super important for me to slow down and take that time and really educate them on why we do the things we do, why Keith might say what he does, why he sits there, why his team looks like this whereas Derek’s like this. So, I just really sit down and strip it back and take myself back to 11 years ago when I started. We didn’t have a lot of these things so now it’s neat.
Brad Johnson: That’s a great story.
Michelle Short: Yeah. It’s cool. Yeah, right?
Brad Johnson: Thanks, Maura.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Yeah, exactly.
Michelle Short: Yeah. Thanks to your wife. But yeah, no, so we’re just really intentional in stripping it down for them and they ask questions and they’re like, “Wow, I didn’t know that you started at SHP because of this.” And I talk a little bit about my background and I talk a little bit about how Derek, Keith, and Matt met and where they signed at a local restaurant, their idea to start a new firm. So, I share all this backstory with them, and then I’m very intentional in the first week of being like, “Okay. Mr. and Mrs. Newhire, you’re going to sit with Keith for one hour on Friday or Matt or Derek,” and they get an opportunity to sit with them as well. And that’s pretty special. So, they’re meeting with the whole team all week and they end their week with a partner. It’s pretty special.
Brad Johnson: And I believe you’ve even invented like SHP-Mates, right?
Michelle Short: Yes. Yeah.
Brad Johnson: So, SHP, you’re right on Plymouth Harbor.
Michelle Short: Yes. So, we are SHP-Mates.
Brad Johnson: So, you’ve kind of created your own language around this and your own culture. It’s like…
Michelle Short: Everything’s branded, so it’s like our intern-SHP program. So, it’s SHP. Love it.
Brad Johnson: I see what you did there.
Michelle Short: Yep. And then we’ve got, yeah, our SHP-Mates. So, it’s taking a few fun facts about every one of our teammates. We don’t call them teammates/employees. They’re SHP-Mates. And we just say like six things about each one that we like. We post it on the wall in our office, yep, so our whole wall. And also, quite often when clients are coming in, leaving for meetings, they’re walking down that hallway and they’re checking out everybody on our team and just learning a little bit like, “Oh, Keith, I didn’t know you played tennis,” or whatever the fun fact is about that person.
Brad Johnson: Okay. I’m going to hold off.
Michelle Short: Yeah. And there are Enneagram scores on there too, so it’s kind of fun. We’ve actually had some clients come up to me and say, “What are those little numbers that you have when you post it on social, when you post on Facebook, Instagram?” And I’m like, “Oh, that’s our Enneagram.” So, we’ll have to do something with our clients for that. But they’re very intrigued by what those numbers mean.
Brad Johnson: We’ll get you guys connected with Ian Cron.
Michelle Short: I would love that. Yeah, that would be great. But we’re very intentional with that, very much sharing their story. And then they get some time with them too. We do cocktails the first Friday that they’re there. You don’t have to partake but you can. We get together and we might play a game with the team in our back kitchen. And the partners come if they can too, just so they can get to know the new team member or SHP-Mate.
Brad Johnson: Cool. Okay, so I want to circle back. $130 million of growth last year. One of the things that you talked about is adding more advisors. You call them advisor teams, pods like…
Michelle Short: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: Kind of paint a picture of what that looks like a little bit. Like, Keith, what’s your team look like right now?
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Yeah. I have Kyle, who’s my lead advisor, Aidan, who works with Kyle and myself, and then we just added Josh to my team. He’s kind of going between myself and another team. He’s kind of like a versatility…
Michelle Short: Yeah. So, Josh was actually an intern with us too.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Correct.
Michelle Short: So, we like to kind of do that too. So, they’re interning with us.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: A lot of interns would love that.
Michelle Short: Yeah. They intern with us. They’re joining a team. They’re kind of learning all their things. They’re getting securities licensed. And then we’re trying to figure out where to put them. And so, he’s now joined your team, which is pretty cool. So, he can act as that third level of support when the other two are in meetings with Keith or in a meeting together.
Brad Johnson: So, sales advisor relationship, basically building that, and then the next advisor, are they more of a service advisor on the team? And then you have two kind of service advisors now?
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Yeah. So, Kyle will be with me in most meetings, Kyle or Aidan, write the recap emails and execute everything that needs to be done from that meeting. So, when I leave that meeting, they pretty much run with all the directives from that point forward.
Michelle Short: So, Keith won’t go into a room alone. He just won’t.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. That’s best.
Michelle Short: Yeah. But years ago, we didn’t have that luxury so it’s kind of hard. And that was like the days before AI and all that fun supporting tools we could have. But then over time, yeah, he’s in a meeting with either one of them. And the goal is for them to help take that relationship over so that the client is then calling him and never Keith so that way he can have some help.
Brad Johnson: Well, I mean, the beauty of it is it’s really hard to be in a conversation and be like a supreme note-taker at the same time.
Michelle Short: And focused.
Brad Johnson: And I know, obviously, now we’re using a lot of AI tools that are designed to even make that easier. But it’s almost like the air traffic control between you who’s developing the relationship has the most experience but now delivering that to your planning team to now build out the custom plan. And they’re really facilitating a lot of that. Keith, so once you get done with the meeting, real talk, fully transparently.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Sure.
Brad Johnson: How much more are you involved until you see the plan?
Keith Ellis, Jr.: So, usually they’ll give my… Kyle will send, like yesterday, he set weekly meets for next week. He’ll summarize each of the meetings where we are in the process and what’s needed to the planning team, to Aidan on our team, or Josh on my team. And that’s really about it. And then as the day, like say I have a second on Tuesday that we need to prepare for, I’ll probably go over it one time, maybe Tuesday morning, and then I’m ready to go. So, I don’t see the plan at all. I don’t really do anything until…
Brad Johnson: You’re kind of like the doctor grabbing the clipboard before you go in, obviously, reviewing it. But the cool thing is your planning team, Nick leads that. Super dialed in now.
Michelle Short: Yeah, super dialed.
Brad Johnson: Where I’m sure the early days there was a lot more oversight, but now like you have the process down.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Third meeting’s a little bit different because we’re showing high level in the second. As you know, third meeting, they’ll build out the recommendations, Nick, Kyle, the planning team, and then we’ll make tweaks if we feel like it’s needed before we go in and implement. But yeah, I’m pretty hands off from that point forward.
Michelle Short: That’s neat too because, like the three, I’m picking on your team, but like you guys are so dialed in together that they’ve started to understand what your expectations are too. So, while we have the process, every advisor has their own flare of the process, right? So, Keith, Kyle, Aidan, Josh, they understand what you’re looking for and they’re going to deliver for you everything he needs, which is, it’s very specific to Team Keith, you know?
Brad Johnson: Well, and what was cool, you had Chase who used to be on your team service, and he graduated to a selling advisor or whatever your verbiage that you call that relationship advisor.
Michelle Short: Yep. Raised his hand one day, was like, you know, I want to be a Keith, I want to go out on my own and have my own team someday, maybe, so…
Brad Johnson: How long ago was that?
Michelle Short: Sure. That was probably a year. Yeah, he was in that role probably for about a year, and then he left. And now, he’s been in this role for a year. So, we’re talking, he was underneath Keith for one year and he’s already out on his own. And actually, his book has become a good substantial-sized book now that we’re starting to add some support for him as well. That’s great.
Brad Johnson: Do you know off the top of your head, Chase, so after one year of like tutoring under Keith, like mentoring, what’d he do in his first year as his guy?
Michelle Short: Absolutely. So, we qualify every appointment that comes in the door, but he would take the lower, the lower hanging folks and just kind of start building, getting his feet wet with that. Doing a lot of role playing, you did a really good job with him, just role playing. They book the conference room, go in there. Do your first appointment with me. It’s very uncomfortable, but it has to be done. And Keith would be like, “Stop, this is what I would do,” and vice versa. And you’d sit in meetings with him too.
Brad Johnson: You’d let him take lead chair, but you’d still be in, in case he got out over his skis, right?
Michelle Short: Absolutely. So, there was a lot of that role playing, I think, at first. And then, slowly over time, he’s starting to get some more higher net worth. And then over time, he’s starting to get referrals.
Brad Johnson: Do you have any idea what he captured his first year, total assets?
Michelle Short: I think it was 25, 30, his first year. His book is now a little over 80.
Brad Johnson: Eighty of total assets in one year or a year and a half?
Michelle Short: About a year and a half, yeah. Yep. He’s crushing it.
Brad Johnson: So, he’s outperforming a lot of people that have been doing it for 10 or 20 years.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Oh, yeah.
Michelle Short: Correct. Using the process that’s in place, learning from the best teams, and just really dialed in.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: They pay me.
Brad Johnson: Keith, but you’re normally so humble.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: No, I’m joking. Just kidding. Totally kidding.
Brad Johnson: So, okay, you hit on something and I’m just going to kind of make the analogy of a totem pole, where the new guy starts at the bottom.
Michelle Short: Sure.
Brad Johnson: So, it used to be Keith, Derek, Matt, the three founders. And then you brought on the first group. And then basically, what happened is there was some sort of– basically, you bumped your minimums, the founders did, and you all were just explaining before we hit record here, four years ago even, Keith was still sitting with potential clients that had around 500k. That would be on the low end, right? Now, four years later, minimum Keith or the other founders are sitting with is $2.5 million plus of investible assets. And rarely, unless it’s like an emergency, somebody’s out on vacation, are you ever going below them?
Michelle Short: Correct.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Yeah. We were really just trying to build our book. I think, what was Derek saying? In 2020, we had $385 million under management.
Brad Johnson: And you’re at what today?
Keith Ellis, Jr.: $1.6 billion.
Brad Johnson: Well, we got to check the market, because this…
Michelle Short: Yeah, the market is on business.
Brad Johnson: It’s up or down 10%.
Michelle Short: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, that’s big deal.
Brad Johnson: But what was that? Sorry, about 16, $1.6 billion?
Michelle Short: $1.6 billion, yeah.
Brad Johnson: So, 2020, you were at 300 and change?
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Yeah, because we did the number rate, as COVID was happening. And we were like, “How far down did we go? Where were we?” It was like 3 and change.
Brad Johnson: Wow. So, now, what’s wild is, obviously, as you grow a team, what’s the team at now?
Michelle Short: About 55, yeah.
Brad Johnson: 55. So, now, I mean, the team gets bigger, there’s more leadership responsibilities.
Michelle Short: Absolutely.
Brad Johnson: Right? You can’t just be in a conference room all day.
Michelle Short: Sure.
Brad Johnson: But now, because the incremental moving up, you’re making sure an hour of your time is valued at a higher rate because you’re making sure the people and the more sophisticated planning needs to go to the more, so the people that have been doing it longer, right?
Michelle Short: Absolutely.
Brad Johnson: And so, it’s kind of solving.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: You want to say sophisticated advisors, but then you…
Brad Johnson: I changed, yeah.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: I gotcha.
Brad Johnson: That was good. So, you raise the minimum. But now, the newer guys that chases the world, they’re cutting their teeth on the smaller ones. But now, your volume of appointments has decreased, but you’re still– are you bringing on less assets today total for a year or more with less appointments?
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Year today?
Brad Johnson: Yeah, like over the last four years, has your– I know the other teams have grown. But you, personally, are the assets staying about the same even though you’re decreasing the amount of appointment?
Michelle Short: No, you’re increasing.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: I killed it last year.
Michelle Short: He did.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: $85 million by myself. And I didn’t work like that.
Michelle Short: And I think his goal– we set your goal to be like…
Keith Ellis, Jr.: That hard is, per se.
Michelle Short: We set your goal to be like 25, maybe 30. Just like trying to reduce it.
Brad Johnson: He 4x’d it.
Michelle Short: He did. I mean, it’s…
Brad Johnson: But you’re seeing less people.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Yes.
Brad Johnson: Higher net worth.
Michelle Short: Absolutely.
Brad Johnson: Like, if you look 2024, you guys grew by $130 million, what would you say you average new appointments, like, people you hadn’t met with before per week? Or Michelle, maybe you know that number better.
Michelle Short: Yeah. I mean, I don’t know the exact week.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: One or two, maybe.
Brad Johnson: One or two?
Michelle Short: For new appointments? Absolutely, one or two.
Brad Johnson: One or two. And still, today, mill plus?
Michelle Short: Yes. A lot of it was off your existing book too. I mean, referrals, referrals, referrals, referrals.
Brad Johnson: So, how does that organizationally play out? So, Tasha, I know on the team does a lot of the appointment setting. So, she knows, okay, 2.5 plus, that’s a founder appointment. But obviously, if it’s a referral, you’re going to send it to probably the founder book that it came from, right?
Michelle Short: Absolutely. Yeah, so we have a whole matrix that we’re building. If anybody doesn’t have that, they should. It’s a really cool exercise to go through. It’s like, okay, taking the– I don’t like using the word junior, but the newer producers, and we’re starting them here, and then you have to get Derek, Keith, Matt up at the top, and you can kind of see them over the years progressing and moving and shaking. Their situations might change. So, they might get married and say, hey, my goal’s going to be a little different this year or whatever, whatever the story is. But you guys are, yeah, so we’re giving them opportunity and taking it from these guys and shifting it. So, she’s super dialed in.
Brad Johnson: How many tiers do you have? So, you’ve got a founder tier, that’s the top tier. How many tiers do you have?
Michelle Short: I would say we have three total.
Brad Johnson: So, founders are 2.5 plus. What’s the tier below them?
Michelle Short: I would say a million plus.
Brad Johnson: A million to 2.5. And then the new guys are a mill to 500?
Michelle Short: Absolutely, yeah.
Brad Johnson: So, now, the newer guys that obviously, you’re new, you need to build the confidence, you need to build the skillset.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: And the objections.
Brad Johnson: If they swing in this a little bit more, which is very common, they’re doing it on the little ones, not the big ones.
Michelle Short: Exactly. And to your point too, the client referrals that come in will stay on the team. So, you might go into an appointment, maybe to help Kyle or Aidan along a little bit, but the expectation is Keith’s going to step out and the team is going to manage that relationship going forward. So, it’s still going to be on the Team Keith, but you’re kind of out of the picture, which is nice. So, he’s building a career path for his teammates on his team as well.
Brad Johnson: I love it. Well, that’s the thing. Sometimes I hear the objection, oh, I don’t want to train my competition, right? What’s cool is, because you’re developing a career track, there’s actually progression, even in the sales advisor role, right?
Michelle Short: For sure.
Brad Johnson: So, how have you all thought? And I know you’ve applied that to a lot of different areas on SHP team. So, maybe we switch over more to the ops side, Michelle. How have you done that? Because I know at one point, you were HR, COO, like everything, and I know Mallory now has added to your bandwidth and you’re building up the op side. How’s that played out over there?
Michelle Short: It’s great. It’s like we got to a point where you guys need to work on the business, and then it was like, okay, Michelle can just take it, right? But then it got myself to a point where I need to work on the business too, right? There’s a lot of things that need to happen. So, we did that over the last, I would say, last two years, we’ve really started promoting within and developing our next level of leadership. So, we’ve got a whole new tier. So, we’ve got the C-suite, if you will. And then we’re building like the V-suite, the Vice President suite. And then we’ve got our director levels as well. And then we’ve got our manager levels.
So, we’ve now got all these tiers that we never had before. So, it’s promoting the team to be like, okay, your team is executing all of the client review scheduling, and this is what’s expected of me, and they report into me now of how it’s getting done, and I don’t have all the people reporting to me anymore. It’s just nice. You picked on Mallory. Mallory now manages that entire team, which is exciting.
Brad Johnson: So, Mallory, what’d she take off your plate? She manages what team, the whole op side?
Michelle Short: Yep. So, as of last year, she took the whole operational side of things off. She’s taking off anything technology. We use Redtail for our CRM, so the Redtail technology, the reporting, the why we’re putting in the UDFs and tracking the activities and giving me those ROI reports that I require. And then she’s also doing the marketing team and the business development team. It’s just, I’m too spread out, so it’s like, hey, I need help, and she’s a very good leader. So, we made that change. And then you’ve got it on the other side with Nick Nelson. He’s the VP of Advisory Solutions. So, back in the day, Nick was the only planner we had and he was in meetings with you and had a little book of business, but he’s really…
Brad Johnson: Yeah, because that when you hired him, he was going to be a sales advisor, right?
Michelle Short: He was going to be a sales advisor, exactly, right? So, it’s like, all right, so he’s now got this beautiful team of 24, I think, at this point. So, it’s like now, he’s working a lot with the partner teams, but he can’t do it all either because 24 people’s a lot. So, then we’ve got Owen on the team, he’s a director underneath Nick. So, he takes those relationships on the other advisory teams and he’s working with them. Nick’s working on the owners. Their best practices are all the same, the way we train, process, all the same. And then he’s requiring certain things from the team leads to report into him. So, he’s developing that little tier.
And same with the new business team too. So, we’ve got Zack over there. He’s a director of the new business team, and it’s like, okay, here’s our processes and procedures. But we’ve got Sam managing it underneath with him, so he has a little support. And same with Tasha, Tasha’s got two on her team. So, she’s the Director of the Business Development team, making sure all the leads are coming in, the client referrals are being scheduled, the scripting is being done, that they’re really a good fit. If they’re not a good fit for SHP, we refer them out to another person. So, she’s developing relationships with network referrals so we can safely hand off that appointment if we can’t take it internally. But she’s got her team underneath her that are on the phones and qualifying, and so, she’s leading her team and then reports up into that. So, we’ve got all these little teams now that we’re so proud of because they’re just helping us out as we work on the business.
Brad Johnson: Well, I remember we got into a story from back in the day when we were all a lot younger and according to Michelle, apparently, had more hair.
Michelle Short: Not you.
Brad Johnson: I did have less hair, didn’t I?
Michelle Short: Less hair, you didn’t.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. So, anyway, I remember you all hit $60 million of total assets one year and we talked that you’re like, hey, we’re tapping out. We also kind of want to be dads and husbands every once in a while, too. And that was before you’d kind of built out this whole advisory model.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Right.
Brad Johnson: And so, you have to answer this truthfully, Keith. So, from the time period when you guys were at 60 mil, I think that was 2014 or ‘15 range, probably about a decade ago, to last year bringing on 380 mil total. So, that is a 6x there. Did you have more or less freedom last year than you did when you were at 60 mil?
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Way more freedom last year. Way more.
Brad Johnson: Like, exponentially more?
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Yes. 12x.
Brad Johnson: You doubled the free time on that. Okay, nice. Good work. So, what advice would you give a founder or an advisor that’s like, that sounds impossible. Like, because the business has evolved, obviously, as you’ve grown, new problems have popped up, but what advice would you give to an advisor out there thinking that sounds impossible?
Keith Ellis, Jr.: I mean, you can look within the community and there’s other advisors that are doing the same thing. There’s one thing to know that there’s one way to show you that it’s not impossible. But I would say build the team, find the things that you don’t like to do, you’re not good at, you don’t want to do, hire for those that liberates more of your time well. And then if you want to do more sales, do more sales, if that’s what you like to do.
Michelle Short: Sure.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: But then, again, you could also say, look, I want this time back for myself, my family, my kids, and having the team around you, in my opinion, allows you to do that. So, I think it’s just building the support, the infrastructure, the team, and then the expectations in how we’re going to treat the families because last thing you want to do is transfer the relationship to a team member. Then all of a sudden, that relationship goes away, right? You got to have the belief that they’re going to be able to treat them as good or better than you would. So, it takes time. It’s not easy.
Michelle Short: And we constantly, too, I think, like, we do have leadership meetings every Monday and we’re in the room and we’re always like, okay, hey, over the next six months, like, are you good? Do you like what you do? Like, is there anything that I can take off your plate? And I might not have the answer, but I can take it off Keith’s plate. I have a nice team underneath me now that we can sit there and really brainstorm and try to figure out whatever the solution is. So, we’re trying to constantly challenge them to give us more, because we want a career path here at the organization as well. So, you guys are really good at doing that for your team, which is awesome.
Brad Johnson: And let’s apply that to you, Michelle, because I know also, as the sales side was growing, as you have more success on the sales side, all of a sudden, uh-oh, more promises to deliver on. And there were seasons where you were overwhelmed, had too much going on, which obviously, you talked about Mallory, but how have you thought about that on your side of the house?
Michelle Short: Absolutely. And I think they’re great. We do talk about that very openly. It was getting to a point where, yeah, I’m a little overwhelmed. I have little ones at home too, and I want to get home and do the things when I’m supposed to be doing and travel, and so, it’s their recognizing and being very supportive of me in how can we help Michelle. And I think that’s what’s happened internally when we started adding those tiers that I talked about. It’s adding the different levels and the Mallory’s and just being able to help me dial into the vision, coach her up, and just, she runs with it and I’m trusting the team to do that, which has really been helpful.
Brad Johnson: And the level of planning.
Michelle Short: Oh, yeah.
Brad Johnson: I mean, if you look at the level of planning from 2014, ‘15 to now, I mean the assets speak for themselves. So, what was, if you can remember, like the largest client y’all worked with, call it 2015, ’16 total investible assets?
Michelle Short: Oh, 500, 550. Yeah, sure, very small.
Brad Johnson: And now, maybe just name some of your top tier.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: 14, 11. I just brought on two 5s.
Brad Johnson: So, $14 million, $11 million, $5 million, $5 million. And that, I remember back in the day, that was like an outlier. And now, I feel like it’s just becoming a very common practice for you all. I mean, those are multifamily office level sort of clients. And it’s because you haven’t sacrificed the quality of the product. You’ve actually improved it, as you’ve scaled the team.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Correct.
Brad Johnson: Any thoughts or tips to that?
Michelle Short: Yeah, I would say too, we’re more thoughtful in bringing in talent, I think, as well. So, we’re hiring specialists in certain roles and I think that’s something that we are now able to recognize that we need to support these new higher net worth folks that we’re servicing.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: It was a higher net worth planner.
Michelle Short: Yeah. And she came from that background. And it’s so neat to bring in somebody completely outside.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: The notes she gives us is unbelievable. And you’re just going at a whole different level than where you were.
Brad Johnson: Oh, you hit a whole ‘nother topic. Just the caliber of talent you’re starting to attract. I know Derek, Natalia, on his team, when she was hired, she was servicing a billion plus for a dollar book of business.
Michelle Short: By herself.
Brad Johnson: By herself. And how many advisors was that?
Keith Ellis, Jr.: One.
Michelle Short: One advisor. And she was the only one with that advisor. And they got a billion-dollar book, yeah.
Brad Johnson: And this goes to the, how you all have created different types of career tracks for different types of advisors. She was like, just don’t make me sell.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Right.
Brad Johnson: She wanted nothing to do with the sales, but chooses the love on people.
Michelle Short: She’s so good at it. She doesn’t give herself enough credit, but you’re totally right and it’s just, okay, we can give you that and in return, we have that. This is a beautiful relationship. So, it’s worked. It works really well with her too. Yeah, absolutely.
Brad Johnson: Yeah, very cool. Well, we are in Atlanta. There is fun to be had outside of this room. We’re going to the College Football Experience.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: Nice.
Brad Johnson: So, any parting thoughts before we go do some life?
Michelle Short: We’re ready to do some life.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: We’re ready to do life.
Michelle Short: I’ll tell you, thank you for having our team here too. I was going to say…
Keith Ellis, Jr.: That’s my parting thought. That’s all I’m thinking about is doing life.
Michelle Short: Doing life today.
Brad Johnson: That’s all you’re always thinking about, now that you have 12 times more time.
Michelle Short: He’s got a lot. No, but our team, thank you for our team’s been super helpful. I think having them here to be with us in these sessions over the last couple days, they’re just like, wow, I know why we do that now, and we’re not the only ones, that firm’s doing this in this country, state, whatever. It’s like, it’s really cool to share that with them and they’re excited about it. So, thank you for having them.
Brad Johnson: Well, you just told me your next hire, courtesy of Will Guidara and his team, is a dream weaver.
Michelle Short: Yes, I just heard that. That’s great. I can’t wait. I can’t wait to brainstorm that.
Brad Johnson: Actually, did Keith decide that?
Michelle Short: I think he made a decision. As an Enneagram 9, that’s very difficult for you to make.
Brad Johnson: That is impressive.
Michelle Short: I’m pretty impressed. I just said that.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: I made that decision.
Brad Johnson: I know.
Michelle Short: Yeah. So proud of you.
Brad Johnson: And Keith, rumor has it there’s a sports card shop that’s very large in Atlanta that we may have already missed.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: It looks kind of empty without us doing it.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. So, we might have to go visit that again too.
Keith Ellis, Jr.: I think so, yeah. Probably.
Michelle Short: It’s crazy. You guys are funny. That’s good, that’s good. Let’s do it.
Brad Johnson: Hey, Greg’s next. Your husband is next. Watch out.
Michelle Short: He is something.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. All right, well, thanks so much for the time.
Michelle Short: Thanks for having us.
Brad Johnson: Thanks for sharing the wisdom. I just love doing life with you guys.
Michelle Short: Yeah, same. Thank you.
Brad Johnson: All right. Till next time.
