Helping CEOs Think Faster & Remember More

Brad Johnson: Welcome back to another episode of Do Business, Do Life. I have Jim Kwik here with us today. Welcome to the show, Jim.

Jim Kwik: Great to be here, Brad. Thanks to everyone who’s tuning in to this brainy conversation.

Brad Johnson: Well, I was trying to explain the work you do, but I love your catch phrase, “No brain left behind.” And I think you’re most well known for your book Limitless. So, let’s just maybe dive in. For those unfamiliar with Jim, what does that mean?

Jim Kwik: So, Limitless is an owner’s manual for your number one wealth building asset, which I would say is our brain, right? This 3-pound gray matter found between our ears that doesn’t come with instruction list. So, I wrote in Limitless as a way of showing people how to use their brain to be more effective in work and in life, to be able to focus, to be able to remember, to be able to read better, to be able to think more clearly, to be able to achieve the goals and then do extraordinary things.

Nowadays, we live in a world where we hear this phrase, knowledge is power, but I think if knowledge is power, then learning is our superpower. So, Limitless is a book on brain optimization and accelerated learning. I believe the faster you learn, the faster you earn because knowledge today is not only power, it’s profit. And the faster you can learn, the more you can learn, the more you can earn, also, because having this knowledge, I think there’s this gap not only those who have and those who don’t have, there’s a gap between those who know things and those who don’t know things, and those who know things can make better decisions.

There’s a quote in Limitless that says, “Life is a letter C, between the letters B and D. Life is C between B and D. And B stands for birth. D stands for death. Life C, choice, like we are the sum total of all the choices we’ve made up to this point.” And I believe, these difficult times, they could distract you, these difficult times, they could diminish you, or these difficult times, they could develop you. We always decide. But we could only make good decisions based on the knowledge that we have on hand. And so, that’s why I feel like learning is one of the most important throughlines. I’m sure you see this in your industry, the people that, the Warren Buffet’s read 500 pages a day. It’s just that they can make better choices moment to moment in their life and the results reflect that.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. The saying in our house I say with our kids, readers are leaders.

Jim Kwik: I love that.

Brad Johnson: Because when you look at common themes in life, it doesn’t matter the industry, there’s a very common theme. The top performers in almost every industry are very well read. It’s like just downloading all these years of knowledge directly into your brain. I mean, it’s like, why wouldn’t you?

Jim Kwik: Yeah, it is the best to fast track your success. It’s the ultimate competitive advantage. People had seen photos of me with Oprah or Elon or Bill Gates or whoever. People always wanted to know how we connected, how we bonded. We bonded over books. Just like you said, if somebody’s decades of experience and they put it into a book and you can sit down and read that book in a few days, you can download decades into days. Like, what better advantage is there? Yeah, so I’m a big fan.

But it’s interesting because these are subjects that are not taught in school. High school teaches you what to learn, math, history, science, Spanish. But there’s no class on how to learn. There’s no class called focus or concentration or flow or memory, right? And Socrates said learning is remembering. And so, I feel like the information is always going to change. It’s always going to get outdated, the half-life of information. And so, how do you learn? How do you relearn? How do you unlearn, also, as well? Yeah, I love that, you read to succeed.

Brad Johnson: Well, let’s dive into this concept of memory because I believe, there’s almost this, a lot of people view memory as innate. Like, you’re either born with it or you aren’t. I remember growing up, I had this preacher and I was always blown away because he would, from the very front, there would be a new family. And there might be like seven in the family. And he would go, he’d just met them, he would go straight down the line and introduce all of them by name to the congregation. And so, how much of the brain is genetic, kind of you’re born with it or you aren’t? And then how much of it is a learned ability, in your opinion?

Jim Kwik: I really believe there’s no such thing as a good or bad memory. So, in my experience, there’s more a trained memory and an untrained memory. Memory is a superpower, especially in your profession, like, whether there’s financial advising where retaining client details and market knowledge can make or break your effectiveness. And so, I believe two of the most costly words in business are, “I forgot.” I mean, think about the consequences of saying I forgot or thinking I forgot to do it, I forgot to go to that appointment, I forgot what I was going to say, I forgot what was said to me, I forgot that person’s name, I forgot what I just read or heard on a podcast. I think memory lapses, we lose time, we lose effectiveness, we make mistakes, we can hurt our relationship.

And on the other side, memory will make you money. When you can easily remember client information, product information, give speeches or sales, scripts without notes, names and faces, you have such an advantage. And so, they say that our brains, about one-third is genetic, but two-thirds is in our control. And that’s very encouraging to me. The book Limitless is highly endorsed by the number one Alzheimer’s researcher in the world at Harvard, Dr. Rudy Tanzi, by the founding director of the Cleveland Clinic Center for Brain Health.

And when I speak at these institutions, we find that there are things you could do to keep your brain just strong and powerful, that we could grow older, but we could get better. And so, yeah, it’s one of those things when… I know this is possible because I grew up with severe learning disabilities. People are surprised when I speak at Million Dollar Round Table, which I’ve spoken for the past 20 years global, and I do these demonstrations if there’s time, like, we’ll pass around a microphone and 30, 40, 50, 100 people introduce themselves and I memorize all their names. But I always tell people, I’ll just impress you. I really just express to you what’s possible because the truth is, every single person listening, you could do that too, regardless of your age, your background, your educational level, your financial situation, gender, history, IQ, We just weren’t taught how to do that.

And so, this is all we do, right? We publish over 400 podcasts on this subject, we write books on it. I speak probably in front of about 300,000 people a year doing these brain trainings. We serve half of the Fortune 500 companies, teaching them just how to be mentally fit. And so, I know it’s possible for everyone, anyone, but it takes a little training without a doubt, like anything worthwhile. But once you have these skills, it’s like any other skills, like learning how to type. It’s just something that just serves you for the rest of your life.

Brad Johnson: I listened to a prior podcast that you’d been on, and you kind of made the analogy, just like you can train your body to go do physical feats, climb a mountain, different things. You kind of make the same analogy to your brain, but most people aren’t training their brain. But you’re saying, with the proper training, you can start to expand the capacity, the recall, the memory. I mean, is that possible, you’re expanding the memory with the training? Or is it more just the frameworks you utilize, tie the information together better? Like, the 50 names, is there a framework for an advisor that walks into a client event? Let’s say half the room are referrals, half the room are existing clients, what tips would you give them?

Jim Kwik: Absolutely. I think, we know that remembering names is one of the most powerful… well, probably, the most important business etiquette networking skill that there is. When you walk into a room of 20 strangers and leave saying goodbye to every single one by name, I mean, who are they all going to remember? They’re all going to remember you. And that’s a standout skill.

We live in an expert economy, again, that when we remember facts and figures, names, it just shows we care and we’re good at what we do. There’s that phrase, “People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care,” though what’s the message we send to somebody when we forget their names? So, a few tips on how to remember names. And these are tips. I mean, obviously, we have courses where we train the skills over a few weeks. But quick tips, my last name really is Kwik. I didn’t change it to do what I do. I’ve been doing this, let’s say I’m 51, I’ve been doing this for 33 years. And this is just what I do.

And so, a few things for a better memory, and I’ll use acronyms as a quick shortcut for people who might be driving or working out and they can’t take notes. I do encourage people to take notes or relisten to this episode. There’s a learning curve, but like with anything, there’s also a forgetting curve. When you hear something once or you read it once, you’re exposed to it once, you watch it once, within 48 hours, we forget 80% of it. And so, wonderful to be able to take notes.

But if you can’t, remember, we’ll start with three important critical things for a better memory, whether it’s names or anything else, MOM, so it’s an acronym, M-O-M. And so, let’s say somebody has trouble remembering names, but let’s say we’re at a networking event. You and I are in a corner talking to somebody who’s a little nervous about meeting new people, but we have a big suitcase full of $1 million, right? Cash, like it’s theirs tax free. You can do whatever you want with it as long as you remember the name of the next stranger in the room. Who listening right now is going to remember that person’s name, like everybody, right?

Brad Johnson: For sure.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. And so, as a memory coach or a brain coach, I want to call people and their BS, their belief systems, had nothing to do. People say all the time, I have a horrible memory, I can’t remember names, is not true. The first M stands for motivation. What is your motive for remembering that person’s name? And so, how do you make that practical? And it’s so simple. And it’s the challenge sometimes when something is so simple, people don’t even do it. It’s that simple, right?

But just when you’re at an event, you’re at a wedding or at a business conference, ask yourself, why do I want to remember this person’s name? Very, very simple, right? Maybe it’s to show the person some respect. Maybe it’s to do a sale. Maybe it’s to practice these things. I learned on Brad’s podcast, because if you can’t come up with a reason, you won’t get the result, right? Reasons reap results.

And I mentioned a bunch of books, like Start with Why. Simon Sinek has been on our podcasts three times, but it has to go from your head to your heart to your hands. You could have a goal in your head to remember names, but if you’re not acting with your hands and actually doing it, check in with the second H, which is your heart. And that’s usually some kind of emotion that you could put there.

And so, it’s like we don’t remember all names, but we don’t forget all names. And I believe genius leaves clues that you probably remember people’s names that could be really good for your business. You probably remember their names if you’re attracted to them. There’s some kind of emotion. So, one of the keys to a better memory is information by itself is very forgettable, names are forgettable. But information, when it’s tied with some kind of emotion becomes unforgettable. And so, that’s the M in MOM, motivation.

The O in MOM is observation. And this is interesting because a lot of people, when they forget names, they blame their retention. And it’s not always your retention. It’s often your attention, right? You’re not paying attention. The art of memory is the art of attention. I remember years ago, I was at a fundraiser. There’s a gala, 2,000 people, and I go to my assigned table, round table for dinner, and I’m the first one there.

And after I sit down, Forest Whitaker, the Oscar award-winning actor, sits right next to me. Richard Branson sits next to him. Ashton Kutcher, Ashton Kutcher’s twin brother, and then President Clinton sits right next to me. And it was interesting. He remembered my name when he sat down. And I only met him a few years earlier. And we had a short conversation, but he remembered my name. And my immediate thought was like, that’s impressive. But my follow-up thought was, oh, of course, he knew who he was sitting with, right? And then…

Brad Johnson: This is President Clinton?

Jim Kwik: Right, yes. Yeah, amazing memory. And he picks up the conversation that we had a few years earlier and nobody was privy to that conversation. And I was just like, wow, because I believe genius leaves clues, right? There’s always a method behind what looks like magic. And I say, like, I’m a memory coach. I need to know how you’re able to remember all of these. You meet a lot more people than I do.

And he tells me the story about his grandfather in Arkansas telling stories in the living room to the children. But afterwards, he would do something different. He would quiz each one to see if they were paying attention, right? And the short of it is like when he’s talking to me, I got this eerie, a great feeling that I was like the only one in the room. Have you ever met somebody like that, where you’re talking to somebody and they’re really present? They’re not looking over your shoulder thinking about what they’re going to say, because that’s often what people do in situations like that.

And I mean, there are a lot more important people in that room, certainly at that table, than me. But I felt like I was the only one. And I realized that, politics aside, most people would say Clinton has high charisma, he’s a great connector, a great communicator, but he’s got this incredible memory. And I think his incredible memory and his powerful presence comes from being powerfully present, that his incredible memory is powerful presence with people comes from being powerfully present with people.

And who is that available to? That’s available to all of us. But most of us, when we’re with somebody, we’re looking around or we’re thinking about what we’re going to say, we’re waiting for our turn to speak and we’re not really there. So the always observation is you have this brain, which is the most powerful supercomputer on the planet, yet you can remember two words like a name, first and last name. But most of the time, we’re just distracted. And finally, the last M in MOM, motivation, observation, are the methods. And one method that comes to mind and Limitless is full of lots of them, SUAVE, you want to be SUAVE.

And so, next time you’re at an event and you have the intention of remembering more names for your business, SUAVE is an acronym. Yes, say it. You want to repeat the name when you get it. Brad, it’s nice to meet you, right? So, you get to hear it twice. The U, very simple, use it. Use it in the conversation. Don’t abuse it. Brad, thank you so much for having me on your show. Brad, what do you want to talk about today? Brad, what are you doing after? You want to… That would be an abuse.

Brad Johnson: So sorry, just a complete aside, but… So, there’s a TV show. Oh, my gosh. Young Sheldon. Have you watched it?

Jim Kwik: I haven’t, no.

Brad Johnson: So, the very first episode ever, he reads the book. So, he’s a very brainy kid and he reads the book How to Win Friends & Influence People. And of course, one of the principles in that book is the most magical sound to another human is the sound of their own name. And so, he literally is going around, like, completely overusing, he’s like, so Jim, can you do this now? Jim, when I say this, what does that make you think Jim? I just watched it yesterday with my kids. So, I’m like, you have to watch that episode. It would be great for you to work.

Jim Kwik: I’m going to definitely check that out because the word use, right? I’m saying U is for use. But if you put in A and a B in front of it, it’s abuse. So, that would be an abuse, but use it three or four times in the context of the conversation, that’ll help retention because the repetition helps with memory.

The A is ask. And this is interesting, when you meet somebody whose name, especially you haven’t heard before, maybe it’s an unusual name, what can you ask? Because everyone’s favorite subject is not travel or finance entrepreneurship or pickleball. It’s themselves, right? So, you can ask about a person’s name. So, what can you ask? You could ask, like, who are you named after? Where’s it from? How do you spell it? What does it mean?

I was speaking for one of the top insurance companies in the US and we’re in a training room, about 100-plus people. Training director’s name was Nangkita. And I was like, “Wow, that’s a beautiful name. Where’s it from? How do you spell it? What does it mean?” And she paused. And then I was like, “What does it mean?” She looked at her coworkers and she says, “It means graceful falling waters.” And yeah, I got kind of the reaction from her coworkers and made me ask a follow-up questions, like, how long have you worked here? X amount of years. With a lot of these people, they’re friends? Yeah, yeah, a lot of them were at my wedding. And I asked the audience, her coworkers, how many of you knew that’s what her name meant? And out of 100-plus people, how many people raised their hand? Not one, right?

And I was back at that company for years and years. And I’m not saying it was just because of the name, but you’re right. Dale Carnegie is absolutely right, How to Win Friends & Influence People. A name is a sweetest sound to a person’s ears, and so, you ask about it. And so, that’s the A in SUAVE. The V is visualize. Some people are much better at seeing things than they are at hearing, meaning, I don’t know, Brad, are you better with faces than you are with names? Like, you remember a face?

Brad Johnson: I would say yes. I would say, I would. Somebody’s face before I would remember their name, yes.

Jim Kwik: I think 90% of the people listening probably say the same thing, that they’re good with faces. It’s like you go to someone and say, I remember your face, but I forgot your name. You never go to someone and say the opposite. You never go to someone and say, “I remember your name, but I forgot your face,” right?

Brad Johnson: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Your visual cortex takes up more real estate in your brain, and we tend to remember things we see. Even like, if you’re on an airplane, no longer does it say the words “no smoking” or “fasten your seatbelt.” It just has a picture, right? Because pictures are worth a thousand words. So, we tend to remember what you see, then the V is visualize. And so, you try seeing what you want to remember.

So, if a person’s name is Mike, you can imagine them for a split second, jumping on the table and singing karaoke on a microphone. Totally silly, right? If someone’s name is Mary at an event, you can imagine them carrying two lambs or you’re getting married to that person. If someone’s name’s Carol, they’re singing Christmas Carols. If someone’s name is David, I use a slingshot, like for David and Goliath. And people can say, that’s so childish, but who are the fastest learners on the planet, right? Children.

And this is to overcome what I call the 6-second syndrome. Somebody tells you their name, you have six seconds to do something with it. Otherwise, it’s gone, right? And so, it gets you to focus on the person and the name. And then when you remember the person’s name, when it consolidates, goes from your short to long-term memory, then the pictures just disappear, right? It’s just a little bit of an aid to be able not to hear something, but to be able to see it. And if you make it a little bit ludicrous, you add some emotion, then you can see it, feel it, and hear it. And so, that’s the V is visualize.

And even if you call up something close, it doesn’t have to be exact match. Some people, when they forget someone’s name, they go through the alphabet. Does it start with an A? Does it start with a B? Does it start with a C? They get really nervous when it gets to like W, but sometimes it works. You come up with N and they say, oh, it’s Nicholas, right? And if a letter could prompt the name, imagine with something like more. So, for Bob, I use bobbing for apples. Just imagine the person just bobbing for apples and it’s just done.

Brad Johnson: You use the same… So, I’m just picturing, you’ve done this at random events with 50 strangers. Because I think like, okay, you get to 10, you’re like, okay, I could probably handle that, but now you’re getting to 20 to 50. So, with your visualizations, do you use the same visualizations for the most common names? Like, are you always with that visualization?

Jim Kwik: Always. It’s always, for the past 30 years, the list I came up with are still the same ones I use to this day. The rule here is if somebody’s name, whatever picture you have for a name, you always use that same one. And because pictures go so quickly, you could do it in shorthand because and again, here’s a hack for it. And I know we were talking about this before we started recording that you have international audience, you can go online to your Census Bureau and search for the top 100 male and female names. And as a brain exercise, create a picture for each of those. Just do 10 a day.

And then within a couple of weeks, a few weeks, you have all the male and female names. And if you have a picture in the US for the top 100 male names, you’ll have a picture for 6 out of 10 guys that you meet. For women, it’s 4 out of 10. That gives you a huge advantage, right? And so, there’s a greater fixed cost in terms of the effort it takes to create it. But once you have it, it makes it so much easier moving forward. So, the V is visualize.

And then finally, the E in SUAVE is end. I mentioned ending the conversation using their name, that if you could walk into a room with 20 strangers, leave saying goodbye using their name, then they all remember you. And so, those are just very simple, quick tips that, you don’t use all of them. And maybe you say it and then you visualize it, or maybe you use it and you ask about the person’s name. But the whole idea here is you don’t do nothing, right, which is what most people do. They just automatically assume they’re not going to remember the name. But I guarantee you, after three decades of doing this, I’ve heard countless stories of people that either made a deal or lost the deal because they called the person the wrong name or something like that.

There was a Seinfeld… I’m talking about sitcoms. There’s a Seinfeld episode where Jerry Seinfeld was dating somebody, was intimate with her, and didn’t know her name. And every time she went to the bathroom, he tried to go in her purse to find her driver’s license, introduced her to George and Kramer and hoping she would reply. And I think it rhymed with a part of the female anatomy was the joke, right? But yeah, I mean, this is something that is so very important.

And I think, actually, a lot of your listeners will remember names more just because it’s more aware, the awareness. Just listening to this podcast episode, they’re more aware of it. But just ask yourself, the MOM, why don’t I remember first name? You always observe, listen, and the method. SUAVE, say it, use it, ask about it, visualize it, and end with it. And you’re going to be 10 times better off than going to your default.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. Jim, so as I think about what, that’s three pretty 1, 2, 3. It’s not like it’s hard to remember, just the MOM acronym. I think the one that I see oftentimes get missed there, you gave the 6-second rule observation. It’s almost like when you’re getting introduced, you’re so focused on saying your name right, you don’t listen to the name that you’re receiving. Do you have something in that observation phase? You talked about being present. So, really, just make sure you don’t space it while you’re sitting there meeting somebody or maybe you’re meeting a husband/wife. So, it’s a 1, 2 really quick. What are thoughts around just simply that observation phase not messing that up?

Jim Kwik: Yeah. I mean, so the SUAVE will help with that because if you’re saying the name, you’re present, right? If you’re using the name, you’re present. If you’re asking about a name, you’re completely present. If you’re taking time to visualize the name, you’re there and not somewhere else thinking about the dry cleaning or whatever else. Even just take the word, when I was talking about Clinton and he was listening, here’s an exercise. Everyone write down the word listen in your notes. Just write down the word listen or imagine it if you can’t. Don’t close your eyes if you’re driving, obviously, but just imagine the word listen.

And as a brain exercise, scramble the letters and it spells another word perfectly. It spells the word silent, right? And so, I feel like focus is something and presence is something that is a muscle. It’s use it or lose it. I mean, it’s a little tough nowadays with digital distractions and we’re getting these dopamine hits with every like, share, comment, ring, ping, ding, app notification, sort of flexing those muscles a lot.

And then, obviously, there are other exercises you could do. Meditation is obviously very powerful. I don’t meditate to become enlightened. I meditate because when I’m sitting and I’m just breathing and in my thoughts, invariably they go somewhere else, which they always do, when I bring it back to my breath or I bring it back with a word, like a mantra, then I’m flexing my focus muscles. And so, it’s kind of well oiled where later on if I’m with my kids, if I’m online and I need to be present and I get distracted, I have muscle memory bringing it back to the present.

Brad Johnson: All right. So many places I want to go. So, I’m just kind of rapid fire and you can stop me at any point. Already as we’ve gotten into this conversation, I look at how you’ve packaged ideas, the MOM acronym, the SUAVE acronym. How important is packaging or frameworks when it comes to memory and just retention?

Jim Kwik: Yeah. So, Limitless was based on a framework that I created called Limitless Model. I feel like frameworks are the lens that we perceive the world, whether it’s… So, it’s kind of like, when I say genius leaves clues, there’s a pattern. If people were to ask me, I don’t get this question very often, but like what genius is? I would say it’s pattern recognition, right? People who do really well in the market, they see patterns. People who optimize their health, they see certain patterns. Other people don’t. And they’re measuring those metrics and they’re seeing that there’s some kind of consistency with top performers, those outliers.

And so, frameworks are so very important. For me, the Limitless Model, for example, is a Venn diagram with three of the most important things that you can control. Because to have a successful career or life, you control the controllables. And the three things you could always control are your mindset, your motivation and the methods you’re using. And that’s really the basis of my work.

It opens with the Limitless Model because mindset, it’s kind of like. your brain is this incredible supercomputer and your mindset, your self-talk is the program that will run. So, if you tell yourself I’m not good at remembering people’s name, you all remember the name of next person you meet, right? Because you programmed your supercomputer not to.

So, like, initially, Limitless was going to be a book completely methodology, how to read three times faster, how to learn languages, how to remember, and how to give us… I train a lot of Hollywood actors how to memorize their lines. I train a lot of top Ted speakers how to memorize 32-minute talks. It’s all methodology on how to do that. What are the best brain foods? What are the best nootropics? How does that optimize your sleep? But I realize that a lot of people know what to do, but they don’t always do what they know, right? Because common sense is not often common practice.

So, before I hit send to my publisher to submit the book, I ask myself, like, well, will everybody who reads this get the results they’re hoping for? Obviously, the answer was no. And I was like, what’s keeping people from doing the thing, the methods? And I realize it’s your mindset and your motivation. And so, I created a framework based on it. And they overlap. And there’s three I’s that are built into it. People can see it online somewhere. You can search my name or get the book.

We donated all the proceeds of the book to charity. So, we’re very proud of that. We built schools in Ghana, Guatemala, Kenya, also Alzheimer’s research in memory of my grandmother, who I lost when I was seven years old. So, I had a brain injury when I was five, a traumatic brain injury that led to these learning difficulties. So, I would have these migraines every day when I was five. I would have learning disabilities all through high school. So, it was challenging.

So, if anyone’s struggling with self-doubt, self-confidence, self-esteem, I’m going to tell you, if you want to improve your self-esteem overnight, just study your brain. I mean, it’s the most incredible gift. But coming back to this mindset is very important, but so is your motivation.

Brad Johnson: Jim will you share the story? I heard it on another podcast and first off, I was like, “Dang, I can’t believe somebody said that to a kid.” But when you were a child struggling with this, there was something a teacher said, I think in front of the class even, and talking about mindset and how one thing was imprinted and then you kind of share that so you could change the outcome down the road. Will you share that story?

Jim Kwik: Yeah. So, when I was five, I mentioned I had a bad accident, rushed to the emergency room, and I had these learning disabilities, right? And it took me three years longer to learn how to read. So, that was a challenge, three and a half years. And when I was nine years old, I was slowing down the class because the teacher would have to repeat herself just for me. And so, the other kids were giving me a hard time for it. And the teacher came to my defense, pure intention, I believe. She pointed to me in front of the whole class and said, “Leave that kid alone. That’s the boy with the broken brain.” And I was like, wow, I didn’t know I was broken. So, how did that play out? Every single time I did badly in school, which was daily, every single time I wasn’t picked for sports, which was weekly, I would just say, “Oh, because I have the broken brain.”

And so, I think the nature of the work that I do is more about transcending, trance-end. We’re ending the trance, either through the hypnosis that we got from our parents or from teachers or from mass media marketing, that we’re not enough, that we’re broken, that we need to be fixed, or self-hypnosis, us saying to ourselves that we’re not good enough, that we’re not smart enough. At these events that I do these demonstrations that I teach, invariably, people will always in the lobby, pull me in the hallway, pull me aside, saying, like in secret, “And I know you’re a memory coach. I’m so glad you’re here. I just have a horrible memory. I’m just getting too old. I’m not smart enough.”

And I always say the same thing, Brad, I always say, “Stop.” I put my hand and I say, “Stop. If you fight for your limitations, you get to keep them. If you fight for your limitations, you get to keep them. They’re yours,” right? If people truly understood how powerful their mind is, they wouldn’t say or think something they didn’t want to be true. And that’s not to say you have a negative thought it ruins your life, any more than eating a doughnut will ruin your life. But if you eat that doughnut 30 times a day, every single day, there will be a consequence, right?

And it’s hard to create a positive life with a negative mind. And so, even if you find yourself saying, so what do you do? You have this awareness that you’re saying, I don’t have a great memory, just add a little word like yet at the end. I don’t have great memory yet. It just opens up. It just feel… It lands different, right?

Brad Johnson: I think a lot of people confuse kind of personal development or thought leadership for woo-woo. The truth is language creates. It really does. I’ve seen it in businesses that create very intentional brands. I’ve seen it in people that wake up with mantras and kind of set the intention right for the day. And I’m sure you have all the science behind it, but I’ve just seen it play out in 20 years of working in finance with very successful advisors and also seeing the others that are not. And a lot of times, it’s simply the story they tell themself. If you don’t even open up that opportunity or that door to walk through, like literally, you’ve already canceled your future right there before it even started. So, I’ve just seen it happen over and over. I couldn’t agree more.

Jim Kwik: Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with that so much.

Brad Johnson: So, all right, I threw you a little off track there, so you kind of unpacked the mindset, the motivations, the method. And you hit on a couple things. I want to get back to the fuel a little bit later. But you mentioned something a while back about digital distractions. And I grew up, 1980 was when I was born, so I was a kid of the 80s. And now, I have three kids. And all you have to do is walk into a restaurant and just look, just survey the room, and you will see a room. I mean, some of the restaurants actually provide the digital distraction for you. They hand it to you when you sit down. So, what are digital distractions? Do you have a list of them? And how do you start to try to keep those out so you can actually keep present and focus?

Jim Kwik: So, I open Limitless with the framework talking about frameworks of The Hero’s Journey, Joseph Campbell’s work, where he kind of dissects any major movie or books, Star Trek, Harry Potter, follows this hero’s journey, right? And so, part of it is having the obstacle. And so, we identified four digital… I call them the Four Horsemen of the Mental Apocalypse. And I think a lot of listeners, viewers will identify with them. And once we point them out, part of making change is awareness, right? You can’t change something unless you know it’s there.

So, really quickly, the Four Digital, the challenges, number one, digital deluge. And this is the overwhelm. This is where how many of us feel like we’re taking a sip of water out of a firehose when we’re trying to keep up with everything. I mean, how many people buy books and it sits on your shelf unread and become shelf help, not self-help? So, we’re drowning in information. So, that’s why we teach accelerated learning, speed reading to help people catch up, keep up, get ahead. That’s the superpowers that we teach to overcome that supervillain.

Then there’s, besides this digital deluge, there’s this thing called digital dementia, which is a term in health care that says the high reliance on technology to remember things for you is a challenge because your brain is an organ, but it acts more like a muscle. It’s use it or lose it. Like, Brad, if you put your arm in a cast for a year, it wouldn’t grow stronger. It wouldn’t even stay the same, right? And there would be a process of atrophy. And same thing with our mental muscles.

So, digital dementia is the high reliance on technology to remember things for us, like, it keeps your to-dos, it keeps your schedules, it keeps phone numbers. I mean, as a child in the 80s, how many phone numbers did you used to remember? Yeah, all of them, like so many. But how many current numbers do you remember?

Brad Johnson: My wife and mine.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. So, most people could count on one hand how many they currently remember. And I’m the first to admit, I don’t want to memorize 2,000 phone numbers, but it should be very concerning. We’ve lost the ability to remember one phone number or a pin number or a seed phrase or something we just read or a name we just heard. And so, yeah, digital dementia, that’s why the largest chapter in Limitless is on memory improvement because I feel like everything starts with memory.

So, you have digital deluge, digital dementia. Then you have some of that term that I coined called digital deduction, which is similar to digital dementia, but it’s on thinking, where technology is not only remembering things for you, it’s thinking for us. You think about AI, and there’s a whole chapter on how to use AI into your HI, your human intelligence. You think about algorithms. I mean, just think about getting from here to there. What would we need to do back then, before we had GPS, we would have to flex and enhance our visual-spatial intelligence, right?

But nowadays, we don’t because there’s an app that tells us where to go, when, and so on, when to turn and everything. So, that’s an example of digital deduction. This came about, because I saw a study that said that this generation for the first time had lower rational, logical, scored less on logic test than the previous generation, and they attribute it to technology doing the thinking for us.

Brad Johnson: Would that be another way to say that be like common sense? It’s kind of like…

Jim Kwik: Yeah, and it could be. So, intelligence for me is not something that’s fixed like an IQ test. The idea back with the IQ test is your potential when you’re eight years old, taking the test is your same potential when you’re 88, but that’s totally been debunked. Now, it’s multiple intelligence theory, Howard Gardner out of Harvard, saying there’s so many other forms of intelligence. And part of it is not, just like you think about the SATs, what is it? It’s verbal and mathematical.

But what about kinesthetic intelligence? The great athletes and dancers, martial artists. What about musical intelligence? The composers, the singers, and so on. What about interpersonal intelligence? And when we got introduced to Michael Hyatt, he was like, this guy really is one of the best interviewers, such as like that skill, that people skill is something that can be developed over time and it should be equally valued as the other intelligences, right?

Brad Johnson: I think Arthur Brooks defines it as crystallized intelligence. It’s like this almost, this age-old wisdom because you can tie all of these different things together, maybe another version of that.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. And what about visual-spatial intelligence? Like, we were talking about before, the great artists or architects or graphic designers. And so, the idea here is intelligence is not fixed like your shoe size and your memory is not fixed like your shoe size. They could all be enhanced through discipline and proper training. Yet it’s not readily available in the professional workplace or at universities or certainly not in our school system. And so, for me, if there’s anything to be taught back in school, it’d be something called Meta Learning, which is what this book really is about. I didn’t title it Meta Learning because probably want to have done as well as it’s done.

Brad Johnson: You’ve got a great title. I immediately went to the Bradley Cooper movie. It’s like, this is the book that’s before the movie that just unlocks all this in your brain.

Jim Kwik: So, Meta Learning is the art and science of learning how to learn. Just like metacognition is thinking about your own thinking. But the four supervillains, you have digital deluge, you have digital dementia, you have digital deduction, and then, to answer your point, digital distraction. How do you maintain your focus or concentration, which is the key to any success, right? To be able to focus and not get distracted in a world full of rings and pings and dings and app notifications. We like, share, comment as a dopamine flood, and so many things you could do with this. And it’s especially difficult for children because they get easily wired for that and a lot of the programming is meant, I mean you see in documentaries like Social Dilemma, where this company spent billions of dollars working with the top scientists to make it that addicted.

And so, I have a video with Simon Sinek on Facebook. It’s probably about 10 years old and has 37, 38 million views. And it’s just literally me saying, “Hey, I challenge you not to touch your phone for the first 30 minutes of the day and the last 30 minutes of the day.” That’s it. Because think about it, when you wake up in the morning, you’re in this relaxed state. You’re probably in the most relaxed you’ll ever be that day, so you’re very suggestible. And if the first thing you do is pick up your device, you wire your brain for two things that are hurting you in your career and your life.

Number one, you wire your brain for distraction, right? And so, the things we talked about, every like, share, comment, cat video. But the second thing, and then you flex that and you wonder why you can’t focus in meetings or focus with your children, right? Because you’ve exercised that muscle. And that’s what focus is, it’s really a muscle. But the second thing that is, I don’t know if it’s worse because I don’t know if I want to be kicked in the head or punched in the stomach, it’s like…

Brad Johnson: They both are bad.

Jim Kwik: Right. It wires your brain not only for distraction, but wires your brain for reaction. Meaning, have you ever checked your phone in the morning and you got some voice message, email, social media message, text messages, whatever, WhatsApp, and it just ruins your day, right? It hijacks your mood for at least a couple of hours. And so, it puts you on the defense and you’re fighting fires. So, how do you create your dreams or goals? How do you win the day if you’re just on the defense fighting fires?

Our friend, Brendon Burchard, who’s been on the podcast a few times, he has this quote that says… He wrote Motivation Manifesto. He says, “Your inbox is nothing but a convenient organizational system for other people’s agenda for your life.” I’m like, wow, mic drop, right? And so, the idea here is if you pick up your phone, you’re wiring your brain for distraction, which you’re flexing and you have trouble focusing later on, but you’re also training your nervous system just to react.

And I don’t know, I use the analogy of a thermometer and a thermostat. A thermometer on the wall just reacts. That’s all it does. But a thermostat doesn’t do that. And sometimes, human beings, we react, right? We react to how people treat us, we react to the weather, we react to the politics or whatever. But a thermostat doesn’t react. It gauges and knows the temperature, but what does it do? It sets a standard, a vision, a goal, a dream, whatever. And the environment reacts to you. And so, what do you do instead? You can’t just stop doing something. You have to start doing something else.

I challenge everyone to do this. Tomorrow morning, when you wake up, instead of checking your phone, which the obvious thing for habit design, there’s a whole chapter on how to create habits, empowering habits and destroy limiting habits, is to control your environment. So, the easiest thing to do is put your phone in your bathroom because you want to make what’s good for you easier and what’s not good for you more and more difficult, right?

So, like in my office, I have a pull-up bar and a kettlebell, like right there. So, I can’t not do it. I make it very easy for me to do that and I have all the junk food somewhere else, right? So, I’m not going to easily have access to it. But for the phone, instead of grabbing your phone, I challenge everyone to just stay in bed. And it’s just a two, three-minute exercise. Do this mental exercise. Fast forward to the end of your day and imagine you’re coming back to bed.

And a family member, your spouse, I imagine my wife asking me, how was your day? And I imagine myself being elated. I was like, wow, today was amazing. Totally crushed it today. What a great day. And then I asked myself what had to happen in order for me to feel this way. And I think about three things personally and three things professionally. Like, you were on the professional list today, right?

And so, the idea here is those six are my focal point for the day. And it’s the idea my friend Clay Hebert has this phrase of champagne moment. In sports, you know when it’s time to open up the champagne because you have a scoreboard that tells you it. But we don’t create that same scoreboard for ourselves. Instead we have like a to-do list that is ever growing, 200 things you need to do, which we’ll never do.

And for me, it’s not about time management. It’s about mind management. It’s about priority management. And my rule for this is the most important thing is to keep the most important thing the most important thing. And those six things are the most important thing for me that day. So, instead of being on the defense fighting fires and checking messages, I really want to focus on those six things. So, it doesn’t mean I wait five hours to check my phone. Certainly, I do not. And nobody does this perfect.

Like, Limitless is not about being perfect. Limitless is about advancing and progressing beyond what you’re currently demonstrating or what you currently believe is possible. It’s about redrawing the borders and boundaries of possibility. And out of fear, most people, what do they do? They shrink their dreams to fit their current situation. When I would say, why don’t we not downgrade our dreams to meet the current situation? What if we upgraded our mindset, our motivation, and the methods we’re using to be able to meet those dreams?

Brad Johnson: Love that. Okay, so I’m just rapid firing because I’m looking at the clock, we have just a handful of minutes left. So, I believe you said with two small tweaks or changes, most readers can read 25% to 50% faster and actually retain it. Do you mind sharing that really quick? Because we would be missing the opportunity if you don’t.

Jim Kwik: Absolutely. We do a whole 21-day program on average, improve people’s reading speed 300% with better comprehension. And we have students in every country in the world. So, we have a lot of feedback. So, it’s not just speed reading, it’s about smart reading, right? Even if you didn’t read it faster, you want to read it smarter. But essentially, we get people to read something in 15 minutes that normally takes an hour.

So, how do you speed read to be able to keep up with financial trends and so on? So, it’s an invaluable skill for financial advisors and other wealth managers is to inform in a competitive and ever-changing industry. A few things you could do, you could use a visual pacer when you read. All right? And if you’re watching this on video, I’m taking my index finger and just going back and forth.

What a visual pacer is using a pen highlighter or mouse on a computer, just to underline the words, will boost your reading speed 25%, 50% instantly. And don’t take my word for it. I would challenge everybody listening to pick up a book and put a mark in the margin where you’re starting, time yourself on your phone to read for 60 seconds. When you’re done, put a mark in the margin, count the number of lines you just read, and then pick up where you left off and just underline the words. You don’t have to touch the screen, you don’t have to touch the book, right? Just right above, time yourself for 60 seconds and read and then put a mark in the margin, count the number of lines you just read. That second cycle will be about 25%, 50% left, which is not small, right?

Reading takes time and time is money, because the average person reads about four hours a day. You think about reports and journals and news and emails and books or whatever, four hours a day. That’s the reason I do so much corporate training. We train at Facebook, Nike, Google, SpaceX, Virgin Galactic. The reason we do so much there is because if four hours a day is spent reading, that means half of someone’s salary is being paid just to read, right? So, someone’s getting paid $100,000, they’re being paid $50,000 just to absorb and consume information. So, that’s usually the biggest the waster, because when’s the last time we took a reading class? When we’re six years old, seven years old? So, the difficulty, man has increased a lot, but how we read it hasn’t.

And that growing gap is that digital deluge I talked about. They call it information anxiety, higher blood pressure, compression of leisure time, more sleeplessness, and rumination. So, that’s a big challenge. So, reading comes into play, but I bring that up because it shows people the why to do it. Like using your finger is very basic and everyone can do it, but just knowing the reason why you’re doing it so very important also.

The second thing you could do besides doing that is ask better questions. You have part of your brain called your reticular activating system. So, your brain, we’ve discovered more about the human brain in the past 20 years than the previous 2,000 years combined. And one of the things we discovered is we’re grossly underestimating our own capabilities. But besides that, the brain is mostly a deletion device. We’re trying to keep information out.

There’s a billion things you could be focusing on right now. We would go mad, insane if we let everything in. So, what do we let in? We let things in, the reticular activating system is kind of like the gatekeeper. And it allows certain things that we care about. And how do we activate it? Through questions. And so, if you ask more questions, questions really are the answer, right? Ask, ask. And so, lots of times, when people are reading, they’re not asking enough questions, so they’re not getting those answers. Like, three of my favorite questions, because it’s actually not true that knowledge is by itself power and has the potential to be a lot of power, it only becomes power when we utilize it, obviously.

And three questions to ask that I ask all the time religiously when I’m learning something to take knowledge and turn it into power, I ask, how can I use this? So, when I’m listening to a podcast or reading a book, I’m thinking about how can I use this, and then I get answer, answer, answer. Then I ask the second question, why must I use this? Going back to motivation and purpose, if without a reason, you won’t get the result. And so, a lot of people know what to do, they don’t do it. But why must I do it?

And then the third question is a big one, when will I use this? I think one of the most important productivity performance tools we have is our calendar in our phone or wherever we keep our calendar. And if you don’t schedule it, it’s probably not going to happen. How many people do you know that don’t get to do the things that they know they should do, meditate, work out, whatever, because they didn’t schedule it, right? And we’ve scheduled parent-teacher meetings and doctor’s appointments, investor meetings, sales calls, whatever, but we’re not scheduling our own growth and we’re not scheduling our wellness and we’re not scheduling our own implementation.

I have a general rule for every hour I spend learning something, I schedule an equal hour, putting it into action, applying it. And people don’t have to be so rigorous about that, but the idea, the principle behind it is very important. And so, two things to recommend for readers, if you want greater speed, use your finger while you read. If you want more comprehension, ask more and better questions, and questions are the answer.

Brad Johnson: So good. I like that 1 to 1 ratio too, one hour to learn, one hour to implement. Put it into action. Okay, two final questions here. You talked about fuel. So, we’ve got this brain. And you talked about nootropics. You talked about nutrition. If you were to just give a couple bullets of, hey, here’s a couple of things you can level up on the nutrition side or the nootropics side to feed the brain better fuel, what would those be?

Jim Kwik: So, we did a whole chapter on Limitless called Neuronutrition. So, Neuronutrition is a science. So, your brain is only 2% of your body mass, but it requires 20% of the nutrients. And some of those nutrients are a little bit different than the rest of your body. And so, certain foods, you got to get your nutrition through foods or through supplementation. For cognitive health and everyone’s bio individual, you can take up microbiome tests, do a food sensitivity, nutrient profile to find something that works for you.

Generally, some of the best brain foods, avocados, monounsaturated fat, blueberries, I like to call them brain berries, very neuroprotective. Broccoli has something called sulforaphane, which is really good for cognitive health. Olive oil is a brain food. Eggs, if your diet allows, the choline in eggs creates acetylcholine, which is very good for your brain health. Green, leafy vegetables, if you could tolerate it, kale, spinach, wild salmon, sardines, something that has those omega-3s, your DHAs, very important. Turmeric can be very good. The active ingredient is curcumin, which lowers systemic inflammation. Walnuts, high in vitamin E, very neuroprotective. Dark chocolate, everyone’s favorite.

Generally, what’s good for your mood is going to be good for your mind. So, that’s good for cognitive health. And if you’re not getting those foods, you could supplement with the sulforaphane if you’re not eating the broccoli. If you’re not getting the turmeric, use supplement with curcumin. If you’re not eating the wild fish and sardines, you could supplement with omega-3 DHA supplements, right? So, that’s for cognitive health.

Cognitive performance is a different game. Cognitive performance falls under an area of nootropics, which are substances that are scientifically shown to enhance performance. And so, we have 30 of them in Limitless, expanded. People could get a list of them for free. We posted because so many people kept on asking on social media. People go to BrainNutrition.com. I actually linked to the human studies. We have our own we created in the first time in 30 years. We never endorsed any supplement, but we work with a team of doctors and neuronutritionists and created our own.

People get that Kwik Mind, K-W-I-K Mind. We took my five favorite substances that with human studies that have been shown to enhance four things, focus, memory, mood, and mental energy. Has no caffeine, non-GMO. It’s vegan. Take two, and it’s just like a huge advantage, Kwik Mind. So, those are some of the nootropics. I mean, some of the ones that are more common are like creatine.

Brad Johnson: Okay. I was going to ask, I’ve seen creatine, which when I played college football, creatine was to build muscle, but I didn’t…

Jim Kwik: Yeah. And so, it helps with your mitochondria, especially for your brain energy. So, that’s…

Brad Johnson: Just straight-up monohydrate, the white powder that can come in pill form or powder form.

Jim Kwik: Yeah, most people do, what is it? Like, 5 grams with water or whatever it is. And so, it’s not just great for working out, it’s great… It’s also been shown, a study came out showing could offset some of the negative effects of a bad night’s sleep also, as well. Lion’s mane is a very powerful mushroom extract. Ashwagandha helps to reduce your stress levels also, as well.

In our product, we found this coffee fruit extract that has no caffeine. It’s the byproduct of when they make coffee that has so many cognitive benefits. And so, yeah, I just think that nowadays, when people want an edge, especially high-performing professionals and they’re looking for something that’s safe and gets results, it’s something that’s just people can look into this. So, little changes in your food, your diet.

I always tell people to take their MEDS and it’s not pharmaceutical. Really simple. M is meditation. Take 10 minutes a day just to disconnect, to reconnect. And all the benefits of stress, chronic stress will shrink your brain over time. That’s a challenge. But it will also helped you to focus better later on in the day. The E in MEDS is exercise, and I don’t mean just doing CrossFit or Pilates three times a week. I mean moving throughout the day.

They say sitting is the new smoking. When you move your body, you create dopamine, serotonin, endorphins, all important neurochemicals for you to feel better for cognitive health. Also, when you exercise, you create something called BDNF, brain-derived neurotrophic factors, which is like fertilizer for neuroplasticity. It’s fertilizer for your brain. So, movement throughout the day. The number one reason we have our brain is to control our movement. As our body moves, our brain grooves.

The D in MEDS is your diet, which we just talked about. So, it could be the supplements or the foods that you’re eating that’s supportive. On the other side of it is like the processed foods, the high sugar, the glucose spikes, which messes with your insulin resistance. And then the S in MEDS, sleep. Prioritize your sleep. We mentioned that with the creatine. But when you get a bad night’s sleep, how’s your brain the next day? How’s your ability to think, solve problems? How’s your focus? How is your ability to remember, to study, to do the things you need to do?

And there’s a whole chapter on sleep, and some of my favorite sleep hacks gets on first thing in the morning, be it 10 minutes of sun, not through the window because it’ll filter out some of the spectrum of light. Your eyes are the only part of your brain that’s outside of your skull. Even if it’s hazy or foggy, you’ll get the benefits. It’ll reset your circadian rhythm to help you sleep better at night. If you’re sensitive to caffeine like I am, it could stay in your system 10 hours plus. The half-life is pretty long. So, for me, no caffeine past noon. I’m jealous of the people who could do espresso, like at night.

And then, the two big ones, well, I’ll give you three. Most people have an alarm to wake up. Use that same alarm to go to sleep. So, if you want to sleep better long term, go to bed at the same time and wake up at the same time, even on weekends. It’s not always possible. I don’t do it perfect, but over time, it really adds up.

And then the two big ones, we would know as hunters and gatherers, let’s say tens of thousands of years ago, we would know it’s time to sleep because the environment would tell us. There would be a decrease in temperature, decrease in light, so cooler and darker. And even if you go in a sauna or a hot bath, especially with some Epsom salt and magnesium to help you relax, when you get out of that hot shower, your core body temperature drops and that’s a sign, a signal for you to create melatonin, which is the hormone to help you to relax, and so, sleep. So, MEDS, take your MEDS, meditation, exercise, diet, sleep, and your brain will be good to go.

Brad Johnson: Love it. Well, I know we’re at time. Final question on my side. This is the Do Business, Do Life. And what’s crazy is everything you talked about today, I mean, yes, it applies to business, but more importantly, life, like how you show up to those that you care about. We talk about build a business that blesses your life, that doesn’t become your life, this kind of integration. I would just love to hear Jim’s definition of what this Do Business, Do Life mean to you.

Jim Kwik: I mean, for me, my philosophy is I learn so I can earn so I could return. My business, I can think of a lot of other ways of making money, frankly, than to do what I do. Intense research and writing. And I could be on three continents in one week. For me, the phrase Do Business, Do Life, it resonates deeply with me because it reflects the integration of, let’s say, your professional success and personal fulfillment. To me, it means living with intention, where your career not only supports your financial goals, but also aligns with your values, your passions, your purpose, the kind of life you want to create.

It’s not so much for me about balance. Balance is a very stressful word. I think about equal weight or on a balance beam or on a tightrope. For me, it’s about harmony, like a symphony. Like a symphony, not everybody plays an equal amount of time, but they all come together to create an art. And I believe that your life is the most important project we’re ever going to work on. So, I think you even want to take time and make time to create magic.

Brad Johnson: I love that. Well, well said, Jim. I can tell just the way you show up, the intention behind everything you say. So I really appreciate that definition and thanks for the time together and hopefully, we’ll, in the future, get to hang out in person. This was…

Jim Kwik: I would love that. Can I challenge everyone to do one thing?

Brad Johnson: Please.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. Take a screenshot wherever you’re consuming this, and tag Brad, tag myself, and just share one thing you’re going to do today for a better brain. We talked about remembering names and speed reading, maybe use a visual pacer. Maybe you’re going to do one of the SUAVE technique or MOM technique. Or we talked about a better brain because that was a software, the programs. But then you take care of the hardware, you can do things like MEDS, meditation, exercise, diet, sleep. Maybe you try a nootropic, maybe you add some blueberries into your diet.

But if you could post, I feel like one of the fastest ways of learning something is to teach it to someone else. And one of the ways of teaching it can be posting it. And I want to encourage everyone to practice what you post. This is a little like, pet peeve I have in the social media world. But yeah, take a screenshot wherever you’re capturing it. Tag Brad, tag myself, so we get to see it. Share one thing you’re going to do for a better brain, so your fans, your followers, your friends, your family could benefit from something.

Maybe link to this episode also as well, because if you tag us, we’ll get to see it and I’ll gift a few copies randomly of Limitless to your community as a thank you for having me on on your show. And I just want to say thank you, Brad, for having me on your show. It’s really great to connect and look forward to doing it in person. And I want to remind everyone that you are the pilot of your mind, you’re not the passenger, and that there’s a version of yourself and your business that’s patiently waiting. And the goal is we show up every single day until we’re introduced.

Brad Johnson: Well, thanks, Jim. And we’re going to buy a box or two on our side and give some away, too. So, we’ll get that figured out before we get this live to the world.

Jim Kwik: Amazing.

Brad Johnson: Thank you so much, Jim. It’s been a pleasure.

Jim Kwik: Thank you everyone.

Brad Johnson: All right, take care.