Gathering $49M of New Assets in a 4-Day Work Week

Brad Johnson: Welcome back to another episode of Do Business. Do Life. I have Brent and Kim Wells here with me today. Welcome to the show.

Kim Wells: Hey, Brad.

Brent Wells: Thanks for having us.

Brad Johnson: Well, as we were prepping and kind of going through a little bit of your all’s journey, I was just like, “I’ve got to start this with one question.” Brent, how many pairs of Jordans do you currently own? Because this is really important to know.

Brent Wells: Yeah. Pre-Triad, zero. I’m currently up to two. I would say I wear them at least once a month. So, it’s a slow transition.

Brad Johnson: Progress.

Brent Wells: I don’t want to get them dirty.

Brad Johnson: Kim, is he cool yet? Is your husband cool yet?

Kim Wells: He’s always like a moving target so he’s getting there.

Brent Wells: Yeah. Work in progress.

Brad Johnson: Well, one of the things that I always love about our conversations, and I haven’t known you near as long as Shawn has, but I do remember pretty much the very first conversation when we were in Tahoe. We were at the DBDL retreat, beautiful setting, Lake Tahoe. And I think, Kim, your comment, I was wearing some Jordans, you’re like, “I’ve been trying to get Brent to wear some of those and he just won’t do it.” And I’m like, “Brent, it’s easy. Just come on, bud. Just go buy a pair, throw them on. You’ll never look back.”.

Kim Wells: You’ll feel better. You’ll step lighter. It’s all good.

Brent Wells: The dress shoes I bring at work were bought for me by Triad. So, you guys have dressed me more than you could possibly know.

Brad Johnson: Well, that’s good. We’ll try to stay on trend. But us middle-aged guys, now, that’s the way to be cool is just buy the shoes from our childhood, so.

Brent Wells: Got it.

Brad Johnson: Well, so as we dive in, such a cool story and if there’s a conversation that represents Do Business Do Life, it’s your all’s journey. So, I just want to dive right in and we’ll kind of go back down memory lane. And what’s unique in our industry, as we all know, it’s mostly dudes that are the financial advisors and it’s been a trend that’s been, I mean, I got into the business in ’07 and I remember the first probably five years of trainings that I went to, which was a bunch of advisors from all over the country. And I bet it was like maybe 1% that were female financial advisors back ’07, ’08. And that trend has changed for the good. And what’s really cool is Kim was the one that started the business and was the advisor.

And, Brent, you joined her. And that is very rare in our industry. So, going back, Kim, I’d love to hear I think 2013, you kicked the independent advisor path off like, where did it come from? Was this just something you grew up you wanted to be an advisor? Did you fall into it? How did that happen?

Kim Wells: Like most, I definitely fell into it. So, in college, I’ve always been geared towards numbers, so it was like engineering or finance. And then a bunch of engineers told me I should go finance. So, I listened to them, which is kind of funny. And then I was trying to get an internship and my best friend’s uncle had a small financial planning practice. So, I ended up interning for him. Just saw how the business worked and operated. He offered me a job right out of college and at that time, my sister had moved to the Columbus area where we are now. And I said, “You know, I would love to take this job from you, but I want to be upfront and that my goal is to move to Columbus,” because I was very close with him and his wife, who ran their practice, and they were kind of thinking like partner for me in his succession plan.

So, he said, “You know, if you work here, if you give me three years, you probably learn enough to be able to go and do your own thing.” And I don’t think he really understood how literally I took that. And so, that’s the kind of path that I went on as I learned from him. And then three years later decided I’d try to start my own business.

Brad Johnson: So, was it like 2010 you kind of came up under, and then 2013 you’re like three years out the door, time to start my deal?

Kim Wells: Yes, I can be very literal at times. So, yeah, I approached him early 2013 and I was like, “Hey.” And six months because I did a lot for him and I wanted to leave him in a good spot so I was like, “I want to go try my hand at this.” And so, yeah, we still talk periodically and stay in touch. So, I decided to move here and start kind of replicating what I saw there.

Brad Johnson: So, where was college? Where was that at? And then where did you jump?

Kim Wells: Toledo, Northwest Ohio. So, in the area I grew up in a little town called Luckey.

Brad Johnson: Lucky, Ohio?

Kim Wells: So, from that area. Yeah. L-U-C-K-E-Y.

Brad Johnson: Oh, E-Y.

Kim Wells: Yeah.

Brad Johnson: Nice.

Kim Wells: Population, a thousand. Farm girl. I know you’re from Kent.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. Well, I had double the population of you. I was 2K. Two thousand, Minneapolis, Kansas so we were a metropolis.

Kim Wells: There you go.

Brad Johnson: What was Brent’s background? Were you a small-town farm kid, Brent?

Brent Wells: I was actually raised in Indiana. So, it was a small town to us until I met Kimberly and found out what a real small town is. Well, we were about, Terre Haute, Indiana, about 60,000 people.

Brad Johnson: That’s a big city.

Kim Wells: That’s what I said. Yeah.

Brent Wells: Yeah. When I found out they have like 50 people in their graduating class, I was like, “Well, no wonder you all played sports.”

Kim Wells: It was 160.

Brent Wells: Don’t be a dramatic. But, yeah, so I got involved in accounting. That’s what I went to school for. And then I worked at a coal mine in the accounting department for a couple of years.

Brad Johnson: Interesting.

Brent Wells: And then uncle who had a general agency for health and life, he’s the one who brought me to Columbus. And so, that’s when I worked for him for several years. I met Kimberly. And she doesn’t remember it, but when we started dating, she told me, “I can only give you one night a week,” because she was so busy. And so, I immediately knew that she was too busy for me, so I had to marry her.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. There’s only one way I’m going to get more time here. Okay. So, neither of you were from Columbus, like neither originally, right? So, what was the draw to Columbus for each of you?

Kim Wells: So, for me, it was my sister. She had started her family. I’m very close to my sister, very close with my nieces. So, that was really the draw for me. And then Brent really for the job with his uncle.

Brent Wells: Yeah. The salesman I know, he painted a really impressive picture. Wrapped up my job, my life in Indiana, and moved over here.

Kim Wells: And he was… His uncle brought him over to kind of be the successor for his business.

Brent Wells: Yeah.

Brad Johnson: Okay. So, you meet, sparks flew, emotions ran high. She actually talked to you, Brent?

Brent Wells: Correct. Yeah.

Brad Johnson: You know that movie reference maybe. So, 2017, what’s wild, Kim was crushing it. $18 million to $22 million, 20 to 30 evenings a year. What was your team like at that time, Kim? How many people on your team?

Kim Wells: Three, four.

Brent Wells: I could say three. One is being part-time, I’m sure.

Kim Wells: Yeah.

Brad Johnson: Okay. So, it’s a small team and just kind of grinding it away. Okay. And then you meet this guy. You only give him one night a week, but you end up getting married in 2018. First kiddo, Jackson is born end of 2019. Brent is still not connected to the business at all at this point, correct?

Kim Wells: I convinced him since he had the accounting background to do the books quickly.

Brad Johnson: Was this the requirement to get to like two nights a week or like, was there a negotiation here?

Kim Wells: Once we got engaged, I was like, “Hey, what do you think about taking over the books?”

Brad Johnson: Nice.

Brent Wells: I felt bad for her. She needed help.

Brad Johnson: Okay. So, then kiddos born end of 2019. Brent starts in the business 2020. Was it right at the beginning of 2020 jumped in or…?

Brent Wells: So, essentially, I was supposed to buy my uncle’s agency. That had always been the plan, and for years we kind of hinted at a deal. He finally came up with the deal and it was just too much risk for us to take. At that point, you’re married. She’s got a business. I wouldn’t put anything at risk about that. Can’t take the same risks when you’ve got a family. And so, when I decided I was not or we were not going to buy that business within about 24 hours, she’s like, “You realize you would love what I do.” And I mean, we moved pretty quick. I would say within 3 or 4 weeks. And it was a weird time like we were working from home, so I wasn’t seeing…

Brad Johnson: COVID had already hit. So, it was after March, the world had kind of stopped, all that. Okay.

Brent Wells: And so, a lot of family time, which I mean, if there was one positive of COVID, it’s we were home with our young son. And so, she kicked around the idea then after about two weeks, we’re like, “There’s no better time than today,” and then went moot.

Kim Wells: Yeah. We definitely weighed the pros and cons. And one thing that we wanted to be, there’s a couple of things in there but I knew that just by his personality and how much he loves people, he didn’t get that interaction at his current job and I just knew that he would always love it and also be very good at it so then it was just like, is it right for our family and life? So, we decided not to tell clients for six months because we were like, “Look, it’s got to be good for both of us. Then at any point in time in this six-month kind of trial period, either you say it’s not working or I say it’s not working, we can’t be mad about it. And we’ll just, you know, you’ll get a different job at that point.”

Brad Johnson: Kim will fire you, Brent, is what she’s saying.

Brent Wells: To this day, that’s all I’m saying we’re going to find out.

Brad Johnson: So, no, but you know what’s so awesome about that? And coming up on two decades in this business of just all kinds of conversations with advisors over the years, that is very rare. Most just jump in, “Oh, it’ll all work great,” and then like six months in, 12 months in, it’s not working. There’s a lot of frustration. And as you all know, there’s a lot of husband and wives in this business. There’s a lot of father-sons, father-daughters, mothers, sons, just a lot of family dynamics. Was that advice that was given to you all like, “Hey, let’s do a little six-month trial before we say this is a go”? Did you just do that on your own? Because that’s such a smart way to go into it.

Kim Wells: Yeah. I would say we came up with that plan on our own. And I’m just personally very much someone who like overthinks things. So, the other thing like we both also knew in that it was only going to work to have him come on board if we were equal partners. Like, it was never going to work for him to come to work for me. So, we made that intentional step too that when he comes in, he’s going to be equal and we’re going to kind of do this thing together.

Brad Johnson: Yeah.

Brent Wells: To project, that was not a ‘we’ decision. That is my wife, the planner, who made that smart decision because I would have jumped in and been like, “We’re going to crush it. It’s going to be great.” And she sat down and said, “These are the six things or whatever it may be that I think are going to be our keys to success.” And I said, “Hey, that sounds great. Let’s do it.”

Brad Johnson: I’m seeing a theme from Kim. She’s making contracts with the tooth fairy. She’s making contracts. I mean, there are some systemization going on here. I like it.

Brent Wells: Absolutely.

Brad Johnson: Okay. So, maybe we’ll get into the tooth fairy story later. That was pre-recording. But, okay, so just looking at the notes here. So, we start out 2020, 6-month trial. Brent, when you got in and obviously you had an accounting background, did you know straight out of the gates the plan was both of you were going to be advisors meeting with clients or was that something that evolved as you went along?

Brent Wells: She told me, “I think your personality is matched for that role, the transfer of belief type of position,” and like I agreed with her but I didn’t really know because I’m also pretty antsy and I didn’t know if I could sit and talk all day, not moving around, that many meetings. And so, I started out doing like small operations. I’m pretty good at create processes and stuff like that. Believe it or not, they were still doing a lot of paper back then. And so, I came in and I had all these grand ideas and a lot of them were good. Some of them she said, “Hey, you’re stressing us out.” And then eventually it got to the point where she was just too busy. We were going to have to turn people away.

And so, we learned, I would say, how not to train a transfer of belief advisor because we had to throw me in, essentially. Sat in a couple meetings and then went right after it and then ended up loving it. I mean, it’s all I want to do now. As we move forward, that’s what I think gives me the most satisfaction from the business is just meet with people, talk, and I come up with a plan for them.

Kim Wells: And he is better at it than I am, to be quite honest. And I knew he would be. I just knew that he would love it and he’s got that personality.

Brad Johnson: Kim, that’s such a cool comment just like there’s such humility in that. And that’s what I love about both of you. You’re such straight shooters but you like kind of call it as it is and you’re not like there was zero threat of like, “If my husband comes in and crushes it, he’s not stealing any joy from me.” It’s just like we’re all rising together. Have you guys always…

Kim Wells: Now, we’re still very competitive. So, be like look at production numbers and stuff like that, but it’s all in good fun. I know that as we continue to grow the business, like he is going to lead in that area and we’re both cool with that.

Brent Wells: Yeah. And the other thing is she’s a very, very, very good advisor, if not a great advisor, but in my opinion, she is a better leader, big picture visionary, planning, all of those things where I completely fall short. And so, I know if I can take most of the responsibility of generating the business, we’re going to move so much faster because she finally, for once in the last five years, has time to go, “Hey, let’s slow down, take a look, and make changes.”

Brad Johnson: That’s interesting. So, basically, what I hear you saying is you coming in and kind of starting to step into more of the sales brand is allowing Kim to step into more of like the CEO role of visionary leader for the team. Is that what…? I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but that’s what I hear you saying.

Brent Wells: Absolutely. I mean, absolutely. It is, like I said, phenomenal advisor track record of awesome success but her superpower is that CEO visionary leader role and guiding the ship methodically and intelligently.

Kim Wells: And that’s also what gives me the energy. So, it’s good that we kind of, you know, I would say one thing that we’ve gotten a lot better on for like personally, too, because I know this is one of the questions that you all had for us is like husband and a wife. I feel like we’re not 100% there yet but like when we joined, when he came on board and we had like two heads, it was hard as you and Shawn experienced. But now that we kind of have the paths of where we’re going, it helps tremendously.

Brent Wells: Absolutely.

Brad Johnson: Well, let’s hit on that since we’re on the topic. So, Kim, before Brent joined the business, what I hear without you saying it is kind of grinding small team like that’s some good production with that smaller team. Have your first baby, Brent joins, COVID hits. Well, COVID hits, Brent joins. And then what, was the team still that like small 3 to 4-person team when Brent got there?

Brent Wells: Yeah. The addition was me and we ended up hiring for that time because, yeah, I mean, it’s a conservative nature like I just left a good salary. So, coming into the business, we’re like, “Okay, let’s see what we can accomplish with this team.” And then, to be honest, we never hired until it was way, way, way too late. That was the way the business had already operated or had always operated was we filled the need about six months after it was there, and we knew through coaching that needed to change.

Brad Johnson: Well, that’s very common. As one of my coaches says, “Congratulations. You’re normal,” because every advisor does that. There’s, “Uh-oh, I have worked 60 hours this week. Time to hire help,” right? Or 80 or whatever the reality is. Okay. So, Brent, you joined and what I heard is kind of there’s this you go in camera kind of hashing out like, “What are the lanes we’re running in?” And you’re kind of doing operations. Kim’s like, “Dude,” kind of slap in your hand like, “Okay. You’re kind of wearing the team out a little bit.” And then Kim’s so slammed with appointments. She’s like, “Okay. You’re kind of thrown into appointments.” What was the time period of kind of hashing through like actually figuring out what your jobs were, the two of you so you could kind of get the team aligned and running all in the same direction?

Kim Wells: Oh, man. We may have different answers here, but I feel like that was years. As we were really, because part of it, I think for both of us and that’s kind of like eventually feeds into how we joined you all as like not really knowing that clear future direction because where we were prior, we never thought we would leave there. And they had, you probably remember this, some like little survey that said, what kind of business do you want? You want a growth business or you want a lifestyle business? And I remember like every year I’d go and be like, “I’m going to do this survey and like figure this out and like sit in front of it.”

And then I’d be like, “I can’t do the survey because I knew that I would be so contradictory in the answers with that,” because like, for me personally, I’ve always been wired so hard for growth. But then those babies come and that just like flips things for me specifically, I know for both of us. But then it’s like I will not sacrifice the life or the growth of the business. So, we kind of both settled for a while and that, okay, we’re going to kind of coast and maintain and, yeah, we’re going to grow some but the life was more important than continuing on. And at that time, it was like when we talked to Triad, it’s like the light bulb went off because I was always just under the assumption as do you have the lifestyle business or you have the growth business, and then learned that you could have both.

Brent Wells: Yeah. And what I would say is the best way to put it is we just kind of went. We just worked hard. We were successful. We were busy. I was ramping up. So, an advisor with 30 clients, you got a lot of bandwidth. There’s a lot of new assets you can bring under you. And so, we just kind of went and then we constantly about every six months we go, “What are we going to do with this thing? We’re going to grow or are we going to enjoy?” And then all of a sudden, the assets are really starting to grow, the service is starting to get incredible. And then you go, “What are we going to do?” We can no longer kick the rock down the road and just go, “We have to make a decision and we have to make that decision now.” And then insert Shawn and Jordan.

Brad Johnson: These two guys just come out of nowhere, right?

Brent Wells: I tell you, man, things happen for a reason.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. Well, I love that honest answer. And going back to what Kim said a little bit there, that is so common. And honestly, I think it’s one of the biggest I’ll just call it a lie in our world is it’s like the either/or. Like, I’ve either got to like be grinding and like winning awards, walking across stages, and then completely exhausted because I’m just running on the treadmill cranked up to 12 miles an hour. Or it’s like, “Okay. This year’s going to be a lifestyle year,” and you kind of coast. And what I do know, this is very common. I mean, independent advisors are entrepreneurs at heart. You’re business owners. You’re builders. And I believe lifestyle practices are where entrepreneurs go to die because it’s like you know you’re actually not accomplishing what you can, but then you feel guilt.

You feel guilty on the business side, but then you feel guilty on the life side if you’re sacrificing that and Triad’s approach, do business do life, it’s part of the thought process on this podcast is it’s the yes/and versus the either/or. But it takes a different blueprint. It takes building a business, not just being a financial advisor.

Kim Wells: Yeah. I would say that that was like part of it too as we were trying to figuring that out, it’s like we believe that we’ve been gifted with this life and certain talents and abilities. And it’s like part of me wanted to, even though I don’t want to sacrifice the life, continue to grow because it’s like we can do this. We can provide jobs, we can help a lot of clients if we grow. But we just didn’t want to sacrifice that life. So, coming to you guys was a really good thing for us.

Brad Johnson: Let’s hit like the reality of a little bit of like the painful figuring that out. So, let’s call it. You joined Triad July of 2023. So, just kind of unpacking this for the viewers and the listeners. So, Brent joined 2020. Flash forward to 2022. You kind of dialed back the live events, which were primarily educational, four of those total. So, four nights in 2022, $14.5 million of total assets gathered where prior, Kim, when pre-marriage, pre-kids you’re in the 18 to 22 range. So, to me, that’s kind of that lifestyle shift you were talking about kind of foot off the gas a little bit. And then 2020, I’m looking at my notes here.

So, 2023, kind of a halfway mark, you joined Triad and that was a good year for you guys, $31 million of total assets. You ramped the evenings up to 12. But what was the before? Was there a pain point where it’s like you felt like you were kind of doing this tug of war between business and life where you’re like, “Okay, let’s go grind this month. Okay, let’s take like two weeks off in the summer”? What was the reality of the dance you were doing there?

Brent Wells: You would answer that or me?

Kim Wells: Go ahead.

Brent Wells: So, essentially, I was at 70% to 80% capacity and Kim was at 140%. I mean, we both knew it was incredibly unsustainable, but we also didn’t know what to do. And so, we continued to work as hard as we could. And then I would try to take things off of Kim, and then that would send me sideways or maybe she was so busy, she’s like, “Brent, I can’t give it to you because you are generating the new assets. That’s what we need you to do.” Because my philosophy, and I think she would agree, if you’re not growing, you’re dying. And so, the business had to be grown and she’s like, “Brent, I’m a service advisor. I’m lost in the weeds.”

Brad Johnson: So, at that 140%, was that 140% all financial advisor like seeing clients work or was some of that’s like leading a business work too that was that 140?

Brent Wells: Oh, leading a business was falling behind because she could not get to it.

Brad Johnson: Just overwhelmed with client appointments. Yeah.

Kim Wells: That’s everything but, yes, it’s mainly client-facing, yeah.

Brad Johnson: So, you’re at 140% because you’ve grown a successful practice where it’s like see new people but take care of existing people. So, between the new and the existing, it was at the 140%. Brent has a smaller book because he’s obviously just diving in, but he’s already at 70% or 80% and so you’re trying to throw some his way and now he’s at 110%, 120%. So, it’s just this like little juggling act of chaos is what it sounds like.

Brent Wells: And the things we tried didn’t work. I said, “All right, new rule. You cannot meet with a new client. There is no new clients for Kim.” And then, sure enough, some referrals come through, “We really want to work with Kim,” and it just didn’t work.

Brad Johnson: Did you have any other advisors on the team at this point, or was it the two of you?

Brent Wells: Two of us.

Brad Johnson: Two of you. So, you were what we called selling or relationship advisor, service advisor, and also you guys were building your own plans at the time?

Brent Wells: Absolutely.

Brad Johnson: Oh, boy. Yeah. It’s a lot going on.

Brent Wells: We have met Shawn a few times and Jordan obviously as well. And we kept going back to him, but we kept thinking, “We’re too stressed for this. We’ve got too much going on. We can’t make the change. There’s no way. There’s no way.” And I also was convinced that Advisors Excel was going to be our long-term home and everything was good there.

Kim Wells: Forever. Kidding.

Brent Wells: And then, essentially, we were meeting with Shawn and he said, “You know, guys, you cannot work your way out of this.” And we are both extremely hard workers. There’s nothing we won’t do to get the job done and that was the first time I was like, “I think he’s actually right.” It doesn’t matter how hard we work or how much we work, we’re broken and we need to be remedied, essentially.

Brad Johnson: Will you go back? Because you guys shared a funny story before we hit record, and you said like you’re kind of at the edge of the cliff is like the best analogy I’m thinking. I mean, you’re like kind of staring down into the abyss. And then Kim was like… Would you guys tell the story? But there was like Kim started it and then, Brent, there was like a little dance the two of you did as you were kind of at that decision point of, “Wait, we’re too busy to even make a change if we wanted to.”

Kim Wells: Yeah. So, Shawn was our guy at the last firm. And so, he told us he was leaving, didn’t know what he was doing. Hadn’t talked to him in a while. And then one day I got his little skinny book in the mail, and I was like, “Oh, this is what Shawn’s doing. He started his own business.” So, I run over into Brent’s office. He wasn’t meeting with anyone and I was like, “Shawn started his own thing and we’re going to be there eventually.” And he was like, “What? Why would we ever consider switching? Like, you’re crazy.” And I was like, “Trust me, we’re going to be there.”

And so, the thing about Brent and I, which I think has always worked well is like, but I wasn’t ready to start conversations because I knew you guys were like young in the journey and I know that, for full transparency, I wanted you to get out all your kinks first.

Brad Johnson: That’s fair. And we had a lot of them, by the way.

Kim Wells: And you had them all. Yeah, it’s been great. But when I tend to crack open the door to things, Brent’s behind me, Chuck Norris seeing that door open. And so, then he’s like, “Well, if we’re gonna be there, we’re going to go now.” And so, that’s what kind of started our journey with really having those conversations with Shawn and Jordan.

Brent Wells: Yeah.

Brad Johnson: And looking back, because this is just human psychology. All of us have fear of change. All of us have resistance because it’s like getting out of bed in the morning. It’s just comfortable. You’re warm. It’s like, “Oh, you get out of bed. It’s cold out there. No, thanks.” So, looking back, if you were to give advice to yourselves back then, like what would you say? It’s like, “Oh, really? Wasn’t that big a deal,” or, “No, actually, there were a couple of things we needed to work through that made us like need to do it the right way,” for lack of a better term?

Kim Wells: For me, it was just like personally, like my perspective completely changed. And I have seen this over the course of just the career and these different like transitional points. Like, again, I had no idea that it was possible to have a growth and a lifestyle business. So, once I could see them paint that picture for me like, “This is clear. You can do this. This is how it will work. This will be better for you, your clients, your team,” it was like all in. So, I would just say understanding like the future of your business and what that looks like because to Brent’s point, what the future was looking like to us prior to that, we knew it was unsustainable. We just didn’t know what to do. So, just to take the time to really figure that out, I think, and then be intentional thereafter about it, I think has been critical for us.

Brent Wells: Yeah. And then the growth versus the lifestyle. I mean, that was impactful for me but I kind of simplified it to myself. I came to the conclusion we’re broken. This is not working. And then I found the solution that I thought this will fix it. I don’t care what it takes. If this will fix it and you will give me the step-by-step, that was the most important piece, at least for me, as I said, “If you give me the track, we’ll run it but I need it step by step. You can’t just let me run on my own and try to figure it out.” And so, once that decision was made, for me, it was not nearly as painful as we expected.

And then also the other end of it is probably my biggest concern is, “All right. If we’re at complete max capacity, our team is just as stressed or close, what are we going to throw on them? How are they going to handle the change? You know, I think we can handle it. How will they handle it? But I think through education and explaining, guys, this is a win. This is not something to be afraid of. This is something to embrace because it’s going to improve all the aspects of our business and your lives.”

Kim Wells: And I would say, to be honest with you, like some things did break along the way. And I kind of saw that. I was concerned when we made the switch because it was what TD Ameritrade had gotten bought by Schwab. We were having that transition. We had one new business person who was already way maxed out. And so, that came to like a breaking point. Now, thankfully, we were able to fix that and that person is still with us today. And we just had to completely shift her position on like where she belongs long term so that it worked out for everyone. But I would say that you’re naturally going to have things break along the way and sometimes that’s what you need to get it in a good spot.

Brad Johnson: Brent, you said something there that is really key. As I look back, so Triad is just over four years old now. And I think any business like if you’re honest with yourself, there’s always something broken, right? There’s always something that could be a better system, a better process, something slips through the cracks, and that’s just like the journey of an entrepreneur. But you just hit on something. And I’ve heard this. I can think of three recent conversations. It’s like, okay, we know something’s broken. We know there has to be a different path if we’re going to fix this long-term sustainably but I don’t want to put more pressure on the team than they already have.

And I think that’s a lens great leaders look through. It’s not just the two founders at the top. It’s actually once you start to build a business, it does become about the team if you’re a good leader and you care and you want them to stick around. And so, when you two saw the light and you’re like, “Hey, I think we need to make a change,” how did that conversation with the team go? Is there tips you would give? Because whether it’s like, I’m not trying to sell Triad here, I’m just saying there’s a lot of times in business is you need to make changes that need to help the team. Looking back, are there things you did well or things you would change to get the team on board with the big decision?

Brent Wells: I think our situation was a little unique because when I came on board, I made changes that, you know, I didn’t have the respect that Kim had earned for 7 or 8 years work with these people. So, when I come in and I want to make changes and I convinced Kim it’s the best idea to do it, that the team’s like, “Ugh, why are we doing this?” Some of them were a little bit painful. And so, we had such a major change like this. I think the most important thing we did is Kim did the explanation and this was a Kim-led decision because she fully believed in it. And I think that that went a long way with the team.

Kim Wells: And I would say just we brought the team out to see you guys because we wanted them to know that we wanted them to also hear it themselves because we believed in it. And then we’ve just been like crystal clear, transparent, like, “Guys, this isn’t working. We know, like I explained, I know that I’m the bottleneck and the issue here and this is like our path forward to fix it.” So, just to like say, “We see the problems. We understand that it’s not good right now. This is the path to get us where we need to go,” I think that helps a long way and just the transparency of it, personally.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. We say something internally a lot at Triad. It’s not a big enough dream if it doesn’t require a team. And I know some of our members have kind of adopted that as well. And we learn something. The very first potential Triad member we ever brought out to our headquarters, it was a husband and wife. And they came out very similar. They were kind of hitting that inflection point of just kind of there’s no more hours in the day and they’re like, “We’re in. This is exactly what we need.” And then they went home to the team and told them and one of their seasoned ops person that had been there forever was like, “Oh, we can’t do that. This would break. This would break. This would break.”

And what we learned in that, which, by the way, great operations people are very step one, step two, step three, right? And if you change those steps, that’s going to drive them a little wild. But what we learned from there is we’re like, “What? Wait, we’re building businesses. That takes a team. We’re doing this backwards. We’re doing it like the rest of the industry. If we’re going to help teams, we need to have the team in the entire conversation.” And so, we’ve changed our process because it’s not like we want your team to be as excited about it as you guys are, you know? And so, that was a learning for us that was painful because it was like the founder got they kind of, “We can’t do this.”

And then he got a bunch of resistance and then he’s like, “Well, never mind. We’re good where we’re at.” So, I think that’s such an important lesson in leadership. One of my favorite quotes is if you help plan the battle, you don’t battle the plan. And so, basically, you are going to your team, Kim, and you’re like, “Hey, here’s the plan. We know something’s broken. You took accountability. I know a lot of this is me. So, we’re going out here because I believe there might be a solution for us.” And I’m assuming that was fairly well-received. It’s like, how do you not respond well to that? Was there resistance from that conversation with your team or like, “Makes sense. Let’s check it out”?

Kim Wells: Yeah. No, they were all in, I would say.

Brent Wells: Yeah, I would say excitement.

Kim Wells: Yeah, excitement about the future. And we’ve tried to continue. As we continue to build, I would say we’ve also been much more intentional about telling the team where we are at in things. Whereas before, it would be like Brent and I communicating and maybe being the only ones to really know what that plan is. So, I think that’s been a really big and good change for us.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. Shawn and I learned that the hard way. I mean, we definitely had some growing pains. We loved each other like brothers but many days we left the office, and we did not like each other in the early days. I don’t know if that’s familiar to the two of you.

Brent Wells: Never had that.

Brad Johnson: Never had that issue? Okay, cool. Just us. But one of the phrases we had to start kind of repeating in the early days is show your work. Because Shawn would have some idea on the weekend. Brad would have some idea on the weekend. We’d both come in on Monday with our grand scheme and then we’re like, “Wait, I thought we already decided that Friday. Why are we like changing our decision on a Monday?” But we weren’t showing the work of like, “Hey, I’ve thought about this, this, this, and this. So, I was thinking, should we look at that?”

And I think it’s really important with your team because nobody wants to be kind of the runaround or the, as we call them in our industry, drive-bys where it’s like, “Oh, here’s the drive-by today with the completely 180 decision from last week.” So, it sounds like as you’ve matured as a business, you’ve just started to show your work along the way, here’s the direction and here’s the plan, just so it’s more well received. Is that fair?

Brent Wells: Yeah. Well, I mean, we didn’t even have team meetings when we came to Triad. I mean, like, we would need to talk to somebody and pull them in. We thought that was adequate, but we never had the whole team get together to chat about things. I mean, just the little things like that, you’re like, “Oh, yeah, we should probably do that.” And then sure enough, all of a sudden, education is better, communication is better. And little things like that that seemed like no-brainers, when you hear them, you’re like, “I can’t believe I was missing that.”

Brad Johnson: Yeah.

Kim Wells: And the team has definitely grown in that. We have a really solid and just culturally amazing team right now. We’ve gotten better at hiring and firing over time as well. But when we get in those meetings, like the team is actively bringing stuff to the table, things that they think they could be doing better, processes that need fixed, and then like owning that and taking that. So, it’s been really good to see.

Brad Johnson: Love it. Okay. So, let’s jump because you guys are having a record year. We haven’t even got there yet. Okay. So, 2023, $31 million of total assets kind of ramped up 12 nights. It’s 2024. And so, we’re at as we record this, it’s December 6th of 2024. So, year to date, we’ve got $49 million of total assets. 12 events, 12 evenings so the evening stayed the same. This is wild. 44% of that business this year has been referral-based. So, we definitely want to get into that but not quite a double. But from 31 to 49, that’s a massive jump.

Kim Wells: And that, Brad, is with the rewrites, though. I would say we’ve grown, but not as significant. So, what did you say, Brent? It’s like 30?

Brent Wells: It’s like 37 5.

Kim Wells: Would be like our…

Brent Wells: New, new assets.

Kim Wells: New, new assets. And we figured, honestly, because we’ve been so intentional about building the team, we figured, at least I did, that we would be stepping back in assets this year because we’ve really just been focusing on, okay, how we put the right team in place and get the ship in the right direction.

Brad Johnson: So, let’s talk about that. What’s the team look like from where you were to now with like total team members and kind of structure?

Brent Wells: We just hired eight and nine and so true and funny story…

Kim Wells: Eight and nine full, right?

Brent Wells: Eight, nine full-time but we’ve got a couple of part-time people but very minimal what they handle hours-wise. But I literally was hiking up a mountain with Derek G. from SHP when I heard the word service advisor for the first time like that is how oblivious we were.

Brad Johnson: Was this Lake Tahoe? Was this like July of ’23? Okay.

Brent Wells: Yeah. And so, I was like, “Wait, what did you say? You can bring in people that can take all this stuff off your plate?” And he’s like, “No, you don’t bring in people.” He’s like, “You bring in a lot of them.” And he’s like, “You’ll start with one,” and he’s like, “You’ll get addicted.” Well, we just hired our third, and that is the honest-to-God truth. Once you get somebody in there and you figure out what they can do to assist you or the things that you thought you had to do that you can pass off, it’s just, I mean, it’s wonderful. So, that’s one of the areas we focused on.

Brad Johnson: I love that. We call that the Triad advisor model: selling, service, planning. You know we like triangles around here so three. This is probably a bad analogy, but it’s the best one I’ve got. You look at some of the other businesses out there and the efficient businesses that have scaled. Chick-fil-A like they’ve got the person at the register and then they’ve got the person roaming around the dining area that’s like grabbing refills, cleaning up basically the mess, the trash, and everything. And I think back to when I was a kid, you used to have to go up to the counter and get the refill. And that would be the equivalent of when Kim was at 140%. She’s at the cash register, right? But half the people in line at the cash register just want a free refill. So, she can’t see new customers. She’s just doing service work.

And by the way, that’s super important. You’re following through on the promises to your clients. You can’t just not do that. But basically, what you’re doing is you’re going from a generalist advisor wearing three different hats to a specialist, and those are very different skill sets, right? So, what have you all seen? Because you were wearing all three hats. As you’ve started to hire somebody that’s just dedicated to loving on the clients, taking care of the clients, building relationships with the clients, how has that dynamic shifted back to what’s on the two of you driving revenue advisors?

Kim Wells: We’re still very much in like the shifting phase. So, one thing that has been, I would say, a game changer for us is the first service advisor that we hired was the first person that I hired on the spot, we hired on the spot. Brent did the first interview with them and was like, “This is your guy that’s going to help like give you some bandwidth.” And I met with him and he was incredible. And you could just tell he was on fire for what we were about. So, we hired him, and probably six months in, I’m seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Like, he’s sitting in the meetings with me, getting really comfortable communicating with clients. And then he knocks on my door one day. He’s like, “Hey, you got five minutes.” And I thought, “Oh, boy, here we go.”

So, he sits down and he was like, “You know what? I will continue to be the best service advisor if you want me to be. I’m committed to that. But where I really think that I could serve this business best is operations.” And so, he laid out this plan beautifully and I said, “I’m always open to everything. I kind of need to talk to Brian about this and we’ll revisit this conversation.” And during this conversation of him explaining this beautifully, I just knew like he’s right. Like, that’s where his heart is. That’s what we need most in this business. So, I texted Brent and I was like, “Hey.” This was a day home with the kids and I was like, “Hey, I got some really bad news and some really good news.” And he read that as, “I got really bad news and I have really bad news.”

Brent Wells: Screaming kids. The way I read it, it was just like everything’s horrible. It’s going to be bad when I get home. So, I’m like, “Oh, my God.”

Kim Wells: And so, we have completely… So, personally, I don’t feel like, yeah, I’ve seen the full relief. I’ve seen some relief in like that servicing advisor area but what we have tried to make every decision on from this point like from a couple of years back was we were going to make the decision that’s best for the business, hard stop. And so, as much as it killed me in losing him in that capacity, we both knew that this is the exact next step we need for the business to continue to grow in the direction we want it to grow. So, we’ve shifted him and we just hired another one to kind of replace him and help give some more bandwidth there.

But that’s still very much a work in progress. But now it makes it all more, I guess, doable because I have the clear vision and I know this isn’t going to last forever and I can see where we’re going more clearly to make kind of those hard transitions all work well.

Brad Johnson: So, you’re hitting a cool business lesson there. I think, unfortunately, sometimes founders, bosses, we don’t like to use that word at Triad but I think if you look at corporate like, “The boss said I’ve got to do this,” that’s kind of the corporate mentality. Great leaders understand that they have to bring on great talent and create career tracks for great talent and actually listen. Like, these are not people that are indentured servants for the rest of your lives. If you’re not a leader that’s willing to listen, your talent will not be there long-term.

And so, what I heard you say there, Kim, is you had really good talent in one role who saw an opportunity in another area of the business. And obviously, the skill set has to also match the job description but you were open to a pivot. And the thing that we always talk about at Triad is you can’t jump from one chair into the other and leave the old chair empty, right? You’ve got to… There’s a training, kind of a passing of the baton to where you train your replacement so then you can shift over into a new role, which sounds like exactly what you did. And at this, I’m curious because I’m getting like the bread crumbs here. How many team members were you at when this conversation happened?

Brent Wells: So, that conversation happened three months ago.

Kim Wells: It’s still pretty new.

Brent Wells: Four months ago.

Brad Johnson: So, were you at seven, eight, nine?

Brent Wells: We were at six, pretty good. So, we were at six at the time.

Brad Johnson: And so, let’s take a snapshot of your…

Kim Wells: We were at six, but they were still on.

Brad Johnson: Let’s take a snapshot of your current org chart at that time. So, if we break it into marketing sales ops, the two of you are in sales, right? You’ve got this gentleman that’s in service, which is kind of like between sales and ops, kind of that dance back and forth, right? And then what were your other three roles on the team?

Kim Wells: We’ve got our office administrator, new business. And then we hired another new business to transition her into more kind of a utility player and eventually, will likely be focused on clients, and then another service advisor who really is practicing today, more of like a client service associate.

Brent Wells: Yep. But they’re on their way to service advisor as the goal.

Kim Wells: So, we were at eight of the full timeframe, seven, eight. So, at that time, I was already, because I did most of the meeting with the team, checking in, and I was already failing there. And so, to Michael Hyatt’s point, you can only lead max of seven people well if you’re on baseline. And so, I was already failing there. So, when he said he had the heart for it and he laid out this vision, as you said, we need career tracks for these people, and he laid that all out. It was like a no-brainer that, yes, this is exactly what we need because the team is so important, and so they need someone to advocate for them. And so, we’re already seeing the fruits of that.

Brad Johnson: I love that. So, basically, what I’m hearing you say, shifted is the role of Director of Ops or what have you titled the role of Director of Ops? Okay, so you know what’s cool? And there’s an episode we can probably link to in the show notes. It was the one we did with Michelle Short at SHP. You mentioned Derek from SHP. When there, I was fortunate enough to meet the three founders, actually before Michelle was even hired.

And one of the biggest inflection points for that business when she joined and started taking over the ops, because you had three sales guys running around like crazy people and they didn’t have the time to take care of the team or empower the team or communicate with the team. And that’s very common once again in financial services. And Michelle said something in her episode that is so spot on. She’s like, “My client is our team.” I love that. And so, basically, what he’s saying is our team needs somebody. And I’m here, like, can I take that? And you’re like, oh, shoot, you’re a really good service advisor. So, it’s like, okay, well, let’s train your replacement, but also, yes, I understand what you’re saying and I agree.

Kim Wells: Yes. And I gave him that specific podcast, listened to it because I thought it was amazing. And also, I think I was even on the way home that day, I was able to connect with Derek and just say, “Hey, this is what’s going on? I think that this is the right move. Does this make sense?” Because I wanted to also hear from someone who had walked in those shoes and he confirmed that, yes, that’s the right move. So, it’s great when you can have that sounding board from others that have done there, done that, to be like, yeah, this makes a lot of sense.

Brad Johnson: Well, I’ll tell you what I love about the Triad community. I mean, one of Shawn and I’s, when we were kind of laying out the idea of what we thought could be and build it differently, it was, could we just create a really tight community? And I’ve already heard it twice. I’ve heard Brent on the hike, you on the drive home, Derek’s, a close friend, love the guy to death. But it’s all about is to me is you’ve got somebody a little further down the journey that’s already hit those pain points and inflection points like, oh, yeah, I’ll tell you, like I did a call with SHP back in the day. They did 60 million of new assets one year and their goal for the next year was 50. And I’m like, that’s weird. No offense, but most people don’t set goals that are backwards.

And that was the point in their business where they had no service advisors. And so, all of them were hitting that same inflection point you hit earlier, which was the 140%, like, we don’t want to do that again. So, they were like go into lifestyle. But what we started unlocking, like, well, why are you doing all of the reviews? You should be bringing somebody in to do that, right? And so, that unlocked a new level for them.

And so, I just love that you guys are following that path. And you are on the path where you guys are going to be able to grow a business that’s so much bigger than you, and I love like what you said is, like, going lifestyle, it’s like, I know we could be serving more clients with better financial plans, hiring more people, giving them great jobs in our community. And I feel like, man, this is so exciting and such a fun time in the business. Do you all feel like a different energy than what you felt back in the day? Like, is there an excitement level that wasn’t there? I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but to me, that’s like there’s a new game you’re playing now.

Brent Wells: I would say the culture has shifted and it’s just like anything, if you’re intentional about something, you shouldn’t be shocked at the results. And so, we put a lot of time and energy into that, and we’ve added some things, we call it brag box. If you go above and beyond, we give you a little shout-out to the team and then we track all that stuff. And every quarter, we get together and we have good pens or something like that, which is similar to what we were in Kansas City. But anyway, it’s just a fun event to celebrate the people who went above and beyond. And I think…

Brad Johnson: Brag box. So, this is like the comment box that you’re just bragging on your teammates, you’re dropping stuff in?

Kim Wells: So, this is like on teams, we’d created a separate chat called, we got a few like specialized ones, one is brag box. So, like, one thing that at least I learned as I was doing poorly at acknowledging other people’s wins, and so, it was almost selfishly a way for me to be like a client came in, he was like, “Oh, my gosh, Beck is amazing out front. She is so sweet.”

Like, if a client is bragging on us about any team member, we’re all to put that in the chat to let each other know how great of a job that they’re doing, so those little things. I would say, yes, culturally, we’ve had a new level of excitement. And again, specifically for me, selfishly, when we were like in that lifestyle zone, I remember one year in the calendar turning over and I was like, “I’ve got to get excited about this business again,” because that bleeds into the team whether or not you want it to. And so, I was like trying to flip that or now, I don’t have to pretend, like I’m excited about it. We know exactly where we’re going. Yeah, we’re going to have some speed bumps on the way to get there, but the team, too, you can feel the energy, which is awesome.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. That is so true. Again, if you’re not excited about the business as a founder, there is no way in the world your team can be. That energy transfers. What’s that, Brent?

Brent Wells: They can tell if you’re not genuine. I mean, you can get up there and say, I’m really excited and all this. They know. They know if you’re worn down and tired and stressed, and so trying to fake it is only going to last so long. And to be honest, it’s kind of a waste of time because they know anyway.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. Well, for anybody viewing and listening that does not have your form of a brag box, at Triad, we call it kudos channel. That was Kenzie, 100% her idea. Shawn and I were very much like the two of you, where at the early days, we’re just, like, trying to keep our head above water. And our team was feeling, that’s like, “Man, there’s no gratitude around here. Everybody’s just grinding away.”

And one of the things we’ll say internally is if you think gratitude, share it, right? If you’re like, man, this person’s crushing it, but you never tell him, it’s like the greatest gift that you never gave. And it is wild how just that kudos channel, like it lights up when you just brag on other people and show gratitude. So, I love that. Let’s go, you… oh, go ahead, Brent.

Brent Wells: I’m just going to say the last thing about that, what I also like about that and once again, that’s my wife, the planning, the thinking, coming up with that. Meeting expectations is not the goal. The goal is to wow them. I mean, that’s the experience that we’re trying to focus on. And so, that’s why I brag boxes and oh, you call something back timely. It’s going above and beyond. And what that’s done is these people, they’re looking for that because they like that little dopamine dump of being people are excited that I went above and beyond. And so, I think that’s helped the culture internally for us to all be grateful for each other, but that’s also projected to our clients because we’re all looking to one up each other and get to…

Kim Wells: I know it. And we also are more intentional about just sharing client stories because as the founders, a lot of times, we’re the only ones that actually hear that. And so, sharing those messages that someone will send in that are super thoughtful so that the team knows that, look, what we’re doing here is making a real difference. I think that that’s been very motivating for the team as well to see that they’re working and building into this amazing experience we’re trying to give clients.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. Well, let’s go into this because we teased earlier, 44% of your business this year is referrals. You shared two really cool ideas, kind of internal acts of kindness, I don’t know, campaign or what you call it, and then also kind of this philosophy of being an active listener, which you’re kind of hitting all over right now. So, would you kind of share how that’s played out internally and how you deliver on that?

Kim Wells: So, we kind of approach it just like treat the clients the way you would want to be treated, the way you would want someone to take care of, like our parents, our retirement age, and like, that’s our focus, right? So, how would we want someone to show up for our folks? And so, we try to be very, very… it all comes back to intentions, as Brent said earlier, very, very intentional. And we trained the team to help us there.

If someone comes into the office and they’re super excited of an upcoming trip or someone’s, their child is pregnant with their first grandbaby, we want to make sure to acknowledge all those big moments. So, for the grandbaby, for example, we called all these things acts of kindness. And we have a template in our system that’s like, when this happens, this gift should be sent out or a card should be sent out, and this is what it should look like so that we’re not reinventing the wheel every time.

But we want to make sure that they know we see them for them and as people first, like that’s one thing, Brad, I would share with you earlier. Like, we have an internal saying here that money doesn’t matter. And of course, money matters and financial planning. But how we want clients to feel is we see them as people first and like what’s going on in their lives. And if we can love on them and treat them that way, how couldn’t they refer people to us? That’s where we want to get to.

Brent Wells: And then the last thing I have for is empowering the team. So, Becca catches a comment of somebody who comes in in the morning, and then I’m in four meetings back to back and she’s like, “Oh, I’ll talk to Brent.” When he gets out, I’ve got this good idea. Like, maybe it gets missed or maybe she brings it up. Oh, shoot, I forgot something. Four days later, all the time has passed. We told them. See that, if you see the need, you think you can while do it. It does not need to come across to us.

And we’re both, we like to be in the details. I would say Kim even more so than myself. And so, like, giving them the power to do those things and removing ourselves, we find the more we remove our things for little details, the more gets done, the happier the team is, and the more the clients are loved on. And so, it just has worked out really well that they know. If it’s not going to go well, why did you spend that 20 bucks? I just got them this month ago. I don’t care. We love them. It’s great.

Kim Wells: Like, for example, this is a ridiculous story. It’s one of my favorites. One of my favorite clients, they came in and for whatever reason, every time they come in, our front desk person back will be like, “Can I get you anything?” and they always say, “You got any milkshakes?” So, one day, she decided, when they come in, I’m going to have milkshakes for them. And so, it’s just like those little things that, again, back to his point, like we’re trying to wow, and be like, we hear that every single time you ask for a milkshake and we know that that’s a joke, but here we are with your ridiculous milkshake at 9 a.m. So, it’s all those little things.

Brad Johnson: How was that received? What was the reaction?

Kim Wells: They loved it.

Brad Johnson: Were they literally sitting in the appointment at 9 a.m. with the milkshake?

Kim Wells: Yes.

Brad Johnson: That is hilarious. Good way to start the day, also. Well, Brent, you were saying something before we hit record. There was another client that requested peanut M&M. So, like, literally, that’s on the menu every time they come in?

Brent Wells: Every single time. He just happened to mention it because we were talking about goals and retirement and he’s been, “Brent, as long as I’ve got my box of peanut M&Ms, that’s all I need.” And I generally believe that he’s a simple, super nice Christian guy. He doesn’t have much he needs. And so, he walked in and got his bag of peanut M&Ms, walking back to our office. I mean, he could not believe we’d remember that. And, like, that’s the stuff. And Becca gets to see it. He lights up over a $2 bag of peanut M&Ms. We’re talking more about the M&Ms than the market return. I mean, like, it’s just those little things, I just feel it’s like a superpower. It just adds up very quickly. And then they’re telling their buddies about it who want to come talk to you.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. What I love, I heard it said once, hire great people and get the heck out of their way. And you both said, hey, we don’t want to, like, oh, can I buy the M&Ms? Can I buy the milkshake? How have you systematized this? Is there a certain budget? Like, hey, as long as you’re under this number, green light, go, like, how has that played out?

Kim Wells: The team knows, like compliance-wise, we’re going to keep it within a certain limit. So, they kind of cap right within there. They know the structure we have for our clients. We don’t have anything super formal in that. We should probably get in a little bit more kind of tied up in that manner. But they know that if there’s ever anything that’s like they’re questioning, if they’re questioning that, then they come to us. If they know that Kim and Brent have approved these kind of things a million times over, they’ll just do it.

Brent Wells: Just do it.

Brad Johnson: Yeah, you know it, I love that. It’s like kind of the compliance factor because obviously, all of us in finance have the gifting limits. So, that’s a natural barrier right there, right? But all of that, I mean, that’s a milkshake is what? $2, $3, $4? M&Ms? Well, back in my day, no, I’m just kidding. A lot more expensive these days.

So, it is those little things. I heard a story one time. I forgot which advisor shared this, but they had like a consistently very grumpy client, like kind of the movie Grumpy Old Men. Remember that one, like, that type of guy walking in? And somewhere, he let it slip, he was going on a fishing trip. And the person behind the counter remembered, got him a little $2 Hallmark card, and he was going fly fishing. So, he went to the local fly shop and got like five or six hand-tied flies. Little note, “Hey, I hope you catch a big one with one of these.” Mailed it out and literally, completely shifted that guy for the rest of being a client there.

He like came in and he’s like, “Oh, I caught this.” And he’s showing like, fishing trip pics. And it’s crazy if you’re willing to listen and care enough, that completely changes the game. And that was probably a $7, $10 gift. While we’re on the story, are there any other fun ones you’ve got along the way that you remember, like some of those little ones?

Brent Wells: I do remember the client who drives the farthest for me. I didn’t even realize it until they were clients. And they drive about 2 hours and 45 minutes to get here. He’s a truck driver, so I guess it’s not a big deal for him to drive, but I thought that was crazy. And so, they had mentioned that they like City Barbeque. And then I just noticed that more times than not, they would get City Barbeque when they would come to town.

And so, we were finishing up a meeting. Becca had gotten me a $50 City Barbeque card, and I said, “So, what do you guys have planned for after this meeting?” “Well, we’re going to hit up City Barbeque.” And I just flipped that card over. And I mean, just the shock on their face. Once again, they just could not believe that they remember that. And of course, now, we have our annual review, like I better have that City Barbeque gift card. But the first time, just the shock on their face, and I’m telling you, they just dropped off brownies. They drove 2 hours and 45 minutes to drop off brownies.

Brad Johnson: Drop brownies off to you guys.

Brent Wells: That’s right, yes. So, I mean, like, that’s not a client. That’s an advocate. I mean, these people have nothing but the best things in the world. And there’s a million examples across their client life, but those are a couple that stand out.

Kim Wells: Yeah. If you can train the team just to see the clients first and leave that out and reiterate that all the time, every morning we have a little huddle and like, if we have any of those stories, like we’re encouraging to share those stories. So, again, that’s just part of our culture here. Like, Danielle in our office the other day, she came in, she’s like, “Hey, I would really like to do a campaign where I call the clients for Thanksgiving, wish them happy holidays.” I’m like, Becca… yes, it costs money for her time, but I didn’t come up with that. She’s like, this is a way we can elevate and have another touch into clients, let them know that we really care and think about them.

So, just bringing that into the culture, that’s naturally going to grow on its own. And we know that if we’re doing that, it’s going to come back around in terms of success of a business. It’s always well worth it to put those little touches on for clients.

Brad Johnson: And it’s fun. Like, how fun… I mean, it’s fun for you, guys. It’s fun for your team. Who doesn’t like to see somebody light up and make their day?

Kim Wells: Right. And I was to call in Brent for that little campaign. Like, I’m not sure who appreciated that more, Danielle on our team or the clients. Like, it’s just a win for both.

Brad Johnson: So, going back to, because you don’t ever want this stuff to feel systematized, right? But you also want to have a process to keep track of it. So, it’s not like, oh, it’s not peanut M&Ms. It was a Snickers bar, right? Like, you got to track it as you have a lot of clients. Is it just here’s where we put it in the CRM? Like, how do you keep track of all of it?

Brent Wells: We have some template activities for more standardized things. Like, if somebody sends us a referral, Garrett Popcorn or Cheryl’s Cookies, like anybody from Columbus obviously gets very excited about Cheryl’s Cookies. So, like some of that stuff, it’s just a process. All right? This is what happened. Part of these activities is to create this act of kindness. This gets it handled.

For things that are a little bit more unconventional, like he loves peanut M&Ms, like, we have certain sections in our CRM that we would mark that, and then that’s going to be something that the team knows. This is where the important information is. And then maybe for the next review, Beck is going to throw in there, don’t forget to get peanut M&Ms, like just all the little things because if it’s not in CRM, it doesn’t exist. And so, it’s got to be documented somewhere, that going off memory is taken out of the equation.

Kim Wells: So, for us, we specifically put it in, like we use Redtail. There’s an important note section, and then the top. So, if someone is like going through cancer treatment, something like that, that you always want that to be top of mind, that stuff’s always gone at the very top there and the team knows like such and such calls then, like you’re to pop open that important notes immediately to be aware of anything that we need to know is going on in that person’s life.

We’ve also started a process that it’s not fully ironed out yet, but we have a whiteboard in our little kitchen area and like, for us, we have our peak-to-peak retirement plan. So, we have peaks and prayers and we have listed out for the clients, like what clients are on the prayer list that they have those things going on? And what things are going on really good in the client’s life? Like, what upcoming retirements do we have coming down the line? Who’s having their grandbabies? So, that, hopefully, the team is looking at that at least once a day. And that way, if we have interaction with that client, we can be very intentional and understand exactly what’s going on in their lives.

Brent Wells: The only thing I want to add to that is on that whiteboard, we also have team member prayer requests. It is just as important to know what’s going on in their lives that they will pray for, as our clients do.

Brad Johnson: I love that. It’s like, here’s some highlights going on, peaks. Here’s some lowlights, prayers, need help, right? Need some extra love. So good. And then it sounds like that is set up in a commons area that sees a lot of traffic, so people can just glance at it and kind of know what’s going on. Good stuff.

I know we’re getting close to time here. We haven’t hit on something you said earlier. So, we’ll get into more of the DBDL. Well, we’ve been all over it, but Brent, you said something and Kim said, money doesn’t matter. But obviously, you’re a financial advisor, so it does. But you’re training your team that that’s not what it’s about, it’s about the people. And Brent, you said something earlier. Oftentimes, with clients, you’ll say, “Hey, I want to talk more about your life than your money.” Can you expand on that? What’s that mean? How does that play out in conversations?

Brent Wells: Yeah. So, my uncle used to say, “Some of his best ideas were borrowed.” And what that meant is pick up things along the way for people who are already having a greater level of success than yourself and implement it. And that is when I came across. And so, when I tell that to people and they think it, like you can see it in their face, what do you mean talk about my life? Like, we’re here to talk about my money.

And then, like, I don’t know if I always say, but sometimes, the money matters, but not so much because what is really important is what are your goals? What are your concerns? What keeps you up at night? What do you want retirement to look like? See how we’re talking about your life. We’ll figure out the money later.

And then you go through that process and then at least in our first appointment, I always tell them, goals and concerns are my biggest concern. Like, that is what I have to get to, or we can’t even go on to the next meeting if I don’t understand that stuff. And then I just think that sets up a relationship that shows that you care. And then you’re also listening, like you need to be able to hear it. You can’t just look at numbers, run some calculations and click go. You need to actually know the client. And I just know that that works best with Kim’s training, obviously.

Kim Wells: And we…

Brad Johnson: Good throw in there. Man, you’re getting some good husband points on this podcast.

Kim Wells: I know. Just chalk him up. One thing we’ve been really intentional about and that’s help with you guys is like that, mission control and pull out again, what we’re about, what we want this thing to look like. We are getting very clear too, and just from the initial seminar, like the brownie point, talking about that stuff. How we close our seminar is talking about how retirement is, it’s not just about this beautiful plan that needs to be put in place, but how we’re taking the success of retirement and turning it into a life of significance where we focus on what we call are the three P’s, your purpose, your passions, and your priorities.

And like, for us, what we feel like a good, clear vision should look like is that that messaging is going to attract and repel certain people. And I think that’s been helpful into the growth of our business as well. Like, we will say we have the best clients around and we truly believe that because that’s what they’re looking for and that’s the kind of clients that we’re attracting and, therefore, trying to replicate.

Brad Johnson: I love that. I mean, a true brand, that’s what it should do. It’s a filter. Here’s why we exist. If that’s what you’re looking for, come on in. If that’s not what you’re looking for, it’s okay. We’re just not for you, right? And I feel like especially, I’m guessing back in the 2013 days, it’s a survival mode, right? And that’s like, okay, yeah, you’d like to come talk to me? Cool. Let’s make this work.

But that’s the cool thing with maturity in a business, and the tough part is in the early days, it’s almost like you can’t even do it if you want to. But now you’ve earned it. You’ve earned the ability and it’s serving your clients at a higher level. So, any other thoughts on that messaging before we… I’ve got one other thing I want to make sure we hit on before we wrap here today.

Brent Wells: No, I don’t think so.

Brad Johnson: No. And the messaging, I mean, you haven’t been at Triad that long. I mean, we’re coming up on 18 months. How long have you been integrating that messaging? Is it still like getting integrated into the internal team language, the external branding and marketing? Like, how far into that journey are you? And if you were going to give yourself a… or like 10% of the way down the road, 20% of way down the road with like truly embracing all of the languaging, how would you rank it?

Kim Wells: That would give us a B-minus.

Brent Wells: I was going to say a 5 or 6 out of 10.

Brad Johnson: Okay. But it’s already hitting, it sounds like, even at that.

Kim Wells: Yes.

Brent Wells: Yeah, I mean.

Kim Wells: We haven’t been as intentional about ingraining that everywhere, like we know we need to.

Brent Wells: Correct. And we’re doing a good job in the education events, but we’re not doing a lot of those. And so, like I could do a better job for when I get referrals going into the language. When they come from an event, they’ve already heard the language and like half the time, they come and they’re like, “I want that peak-to-peak plan.” And it’s very easy for me to be like, “Oh, yeah, I need to go through the language thing and make sure to hit all that.” But I think we definitely have room for improvement.

Brad Johnson: Are you guys up for a little challenge here on the podcast? You said you guys are competitive, so I feel like I can throw a little challenge at you. Do you guys remember the movie Super Troopers?

Brent Wells: I bet you $50 she hasn’t seen that.

Kim Wells: I’ve seen parts.

Brad Johnson: Do you know the meow game on there?

Brent Wells: How many times you can say meow while pulling somebody over? Yes.

Brad Johnson: Yes. So, they’re like, “All right, meow. Do you know, meow, when I was…” So, they’re like working it in and trying to not let them catch on. You just need to incorporate the meow game. So, if it’s peak to peak or whatever and you now take that into your next appointments and then when you come out, you’re like, “How many did you get, Kim?” And she’s like, “I got four.” And Brent’s like, “I got five.” And then it’s the meow game and now, don’t.

Kim Wells: That’s fun.

Brad Johnson: You do that for like a month and then it’s flow and life is good. Actually, I threw that at the vantage point guys up in Chicago and St. Louis, and they’re like, dude, that worked, there’s three of them. And so, they just made a little contest out of it, because it does take a while to try on the new language. It’s not natural. You haven’t done it before, right?

Brent Wells: That will stick. I believe that that will stick. That will be in the back of my head now. I’ll chuckle a little bit and then be like, “Come on in, money.”

Kim Wells: And he might say, meow, but…

Brent Wells: Yep, that’s cool.

Brad Johnson: Okay, well, let me know how it plays out. That’ll be a fun one for you. Well, I want to hit one other thing that’s really cool. So, how old are the kiddos now?

Brent Wells: Five and well she’s 2, but she’s going on 13.

Brad Johnson: Nice. And she’s already got you wrapped around her finger, Brent, so it’ll work.

Brent Wells: Correct, yeah.

Brad Johnson: You got a lot of years ahead of you of Ulta and Sephora. It’ll be fun.

Brent Wells: I don’t know what that is, but it sounds like I will.

Brad Johnson: You will. I’ve got an eight-year-old and I know a lot about it now.

Brent Wells: Got it.

Brad Johnson: There’s skincare routines these days. There’s all kinds of really cool stuff you’re going to get into, but you both work four-day workweeks, which is very unique because they’re on different days. So, Brent, you’re staying home on Tuesdays with the kids? Kim’s staying home on Thursdays.

Brent Wells: Yes.

Brad Johnson: So cool. And that’s actually the first time I’ve ever heard that from a husband and wife that actually intentionally, like, here’s our stay-at-home days with the kids. How did that come to be? How is it planned out? Like, just give us the idea behind it.

Brent Wells: You’ll have two different takes. So, we’ll look at…

Kim Wells: And it’ll probably be interesting. So, that was one of my long-term goals, like one of the reasons why I started the business. This is before I even knew Brent. I was like, I know I want a family someday. I know I want the freedom to be able to take care of kids and spend more time there. So, that was always my goal. When I get kids, it’s going to be at least going to come back to a four-day workweek.

And then when Brent came on, I think he had to, for me, how it happened is like one day, I think I had meetings all day and something happened to babysitter or something was sick and Brent had to be the one to stay at home. And I got home, and I’m like, “How was your day?” And he was like, “We had the best day ever we did, this, this, and this.” And I was like, “Would you want to do four days a week, too?” And he was like, “I think I might.”

Brent Wells: And at the time, there’s only one. I want to be crystal clear about that. And they were a baby. So, it wasn’t…

And he could drag them…

Brad Johnson: So, your best day was the baby slept all day and you just hung out at the house?

Brent Wells: Yeah, most likely. But no, no, I probably went places. I like to go places. So, I probably…

Kim Wells: Yeah, he went everywhere.

Brent Wells: Cabela’s and God knows where, but we probably went everywhere. And I just thought, this is parenting and I love it. They slept all day. So, then eventually, I said, “Yes, I would like to do it.” It used to be very easy when it was just the one child. Now, we have two. When she was a baby, it’s very easy.

And my opinion, what we currently stand today, it is my most hard workday, completely exhausts me. And I am so excited to go back to work on Wednesday. And like, I even have clients will come in on Wednesday and they’re like, “How are you?” Because they know how hard that Tuesday is on me, because what either one by ourselves, I do exactly what we want, everything’s great. But when it is two on one and they’re pulling me in different directions, I don’t have a clue what’s going on. So, I usually book a later appointment on Wednesdays so I can kind of get some rest before I go home at 6 p.m.

Kim Wells: But you love it.

Brent Wells: But I do love it. And I’ll never give it up because I know I will appreciate it. And then also, our dream is one day, they’re going to be in school. We stick to four days and we just go off one day a week. That’s kind of what keeps me motivated.

Brad Johnson: Well, coming from a guy that’s just a little further down that path than you all, 14, 13, and 9 in Sunday, two days, the days are long, the years are short. And so, when you go through those days, because I know, like I’ve been like, I’m trying to put my kids to bed and they’re putting me to bed at the end of the day. I’m falling asleep before they do.

But you will look back and some day, you will miss it. And I love that intention. I love building the business in a way that’s blessing your life, not becoming your life. And you’re still growing. That’s the beautiful thing about it. And that’s such a cool concept. I’ve never heard that. Any other thoughts just on what it’s meant for your family?

Kim Wells: I was just going to say that, thankfully, we’ve had some very wise people speak into our lives. And my sister was one of them. And it was like, I’ll never get this time back. But you hear that so much from people. But we’ve tried to really kind of grab on to that and realize that these are very special years and that we won’t ever be able to get this time back so we have no regrets on how it’s like having the intention on our families slow down the growth of our business. Absolutely. But we wouldn’t have it any other way.

Brent Wells: The only piece of advice that got a lot better when I made sure I have no solid work requirements on my dayoff, it used to be I thought I can fit in one, two, three things. And then I was book and calls on naps. And then, also, I got to the point of like, this ain’t working. Like, I’m either here or I’m not. And so, once I finally said, “Guys, you may as well just chalk me down as I’m not available. If you get a random email or text, great, but I’m unavailable.” And that was probably the best decision I think I made, at least with that.

Brad Johnson: Well, the cool thing with that, that does for your team, that empowers them, but the truth is that absence builds stronger muscles in the team. Now, I’m not saying it’s easy and sometimes things don’t fall through the cracks. There’s definitely systems and processes that need to be created, but you’re actually strengthening the team and empowering the team to perform when you do that, instead of being a crutch, right, where everything constantly falls back. Yeah, that’s cool.

So, one other thought on that, what is that like just… because I know some advisor listening in, like that sounds cool. I could never get there. Was it literally like ripped the Band-Aid off and we’re doing the Tuesday-Thursday? Or was there a process to get there?

Brent Wells: Be good.

Kim Wells: It was a rip the Band-Aid off kind of thing. It was like, this is what we’re doing and we won’t be available on these days. And we’ve had to shift that because our son, one of the reasons why it’s Tuesday-Thursday is because last year, he was two days at preschool, now he’s three days. And so, those Tuesday-Thursdays are his dayoff. And so, it’s just like, hey, this is what we need to happen to the calendar, and then the team projects that.

Brent Wells: Yep.

Brad Johnson: Well, you know, the other thing, Brent, and this is wild, but with this show, Do Business, Do Life, I’ve had a lot of advisors reach out and they’re like, I listen to the show with my wife because we talk a lot about the do life side, too, like wives that aren’t in the business, right? And we were fortunate enough Sarah stayed home when Braun was born. And I fully believe she has the harder career than I do. It’s like, it’s not even, especially when they’re small like that, and there are so many spouses. Like, I just look at it and when you’re married, it is a partnership. Like, if you’re married to an entrepreneur, it’s a partnership, whether they work in the business or not, their partner is still in the business.

And shout out to all the spouses out there that stay home and make it work because that is… gosh, that is a grind some days. And you love it, but it’s still a grind. So, I hear what you’re saying, Brent, is what I’m saying. I want to acknowledge what you’re saying because I couldn’t agree more.

Brent Wells: I have one other thing for the younger financial advisors, especially the females. So, when Kim and I got married, I don’t know if it was the day we got married, but it was either that or the honeymoon, she said…

Kim Wells: This is dramatic, but go ahead.

Brent Wells: It’s not dramatic. This is real life. Okay? She said, “I just want to let you know I love my job, I love my business. I will never stay home.” Okay? Remember the planner? We have been married 24 hours and she’s like, I will never be a stay-at-home mom. And then, the second that little baby shows up, oh, my gosh, the shift is amazing. Does she still care about her firstborn, the business? Yes, but it is so far trumped that you just need to understand how that changes things and how the priorities shift. And so, that was very important to me was we get her to one day. Do I like it? Is it important to me? Yes, 10 times more important because I know what it means to her.

Brad Johnson: Kim, what are your thoughts on that?

Kim Wells: Yeah, I think that he was saying how his mom had always told him that you need to plan on one salary when the baby comes because the wives want to stay at home. And it is just incredible. I mean, I thought, no way. Like, I’m not wired that way, but those babies show up and your priorities do change. And now, at this point, I’m trying my best to take two days off a week just because the kids are young and I won’t be like that forever. So, like I mix it in on Fridays. So, to be very intentional on how you build that, like that’s been very helpful for us.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. I’ll tell you what. Guys are different, and also, it’s the same. Like, I remember three kids. So, when I started in finance ‘07, I was 26 years old, was married to Sarah when we had no kids. And so, it was like I knew it was going to be a grind. So, I’m like, “Hey, I’m going to be working until 8, 9 o’clock tonight.” And she’d be like, “Cool,” right?

And then the moment our first was born. It became very different where it’s like, “I want to get home. I want to be there for family dinner. I want to be there for the stuff that matters.” And some of the most painful conversations I’ve had in my career, our conversations of advisors that look back and have regret, and they are like telling me, “Don’t do what I did. I missed the first 10 years because I was grinding.”

And there’s an entrepreneurial lie and it is a lie. I’m building this business for my family. Your family just wants you at the dinner table. That’s what they want. And so, I love that you guys have made that, that you’ve built your business. An entrepreneur should build a business that blesses their life, like, that’s the whole point of being an entrepreneur, right? And so, so many people just fall in that trap of the grind and they don’t know how to get out. So, what I’m trying to say is I just love the intention you’ve done it with and just thanks for sharing that because I promise, there’s some advisors listening and I want to do that too. So, challenges like rip the Band-Aid off and just make it happen, right?

Kim Wells: Yeah, you won’t regret it.

Brent Wells: Yeah, you won’t.

Brad Johnson: Yeah, cool. Well, rumor has it, Brent’s trying to go, like, sit in a tree stand in probably a 15-degree weather today. So, what is the weather up in Ohio today? It’s cold in Kansas.

Brent Wells: Here, it’s a little bit warmer. I think it’s closer to 31, but they’re…

Kim Wells: 22.

Brent Wells: 22? I lied. It’s 22 here. It’s 22 where I’ll be sitting.

Brad Johnson: Balmy.

Brent Wells: Yeah.

Brad Johnson: Well, hey, good luck. I know that the deer camp has been a little dry lately, but you never know. Today might be the day. Well, we’ll wish you like a podcast luck here.

Brent Wells: We’ll get a picture here in a couple of hours. We’ll see, though. Don’t plan on it.

Brad Johnson: Okay, cool. Well, I have one parting question for each of you. We’ve hit all over it here the last 5, 10 minutes. If you had to give Brent and Kim’s definition of what does Do Business, Do Life mean to you, how would you define it?

Brent Wells: Okay. I must probably have a little bit of an unconventional answer to it, but I did put a lot of thought into it. And essentially, in my opinion, the business serves three purposes and it has everyone is as important as the other. And if any one of them is fixed, the business needs repair. One, it is to improve our lives, our family, our children, the people in our atmosphere, siblings, parents, everybody. So, business is to improve our lives. It’s to improve our team members’ lives. You cannot have unhappy people on your team or they will not treat your clients the way that they deserve to be treated and expect to be treated. So, we need to make sure our business blesses their lives.

And then, lastly, it needs to bless their clients’ lives. If you can have happy clients that become activists who are sending their friends that knew you, that 44% number, there’s nothing I’m more excited about than our overall rate of 44%, because that tells me that the promises we’re making to them are being met and count. And so, I think if I have all three of those pillars in place and they’re all in good shape, we’re able to do business and do life. And this business serves the purpose we want it to.

Brad Johnson: So, to recap, blesses your lives as the founders of the business, blesses your team’s lives as, obviously, the people you’re doing it with, blesses your clients’ lives as the people you’re doing it for.

Brent Wells: Yep.

Brad Johnson: That’s cool. I’ve never heard of it broken down that way. Kim, what do you have on your side?

Kim Wells: He said it pretty well. I mean, I think that’s what we try to be really intentional on the business about, but Do Business, Do Life, I mean, you brought it up, they should bless each other. I think in this industry, probably within all industries, like if you own a business, it’s very easy for that business to kind of become your life and overtake it a little bit. So, for me, it’s just being really intentional about what we want our life to look about or look like, and then make sure that that’s being a reflection to in our business. Some of that, they’re complement in each other. So, whether or not you want it to like business as part of your life, so you just have to be intentional about making sure it’s the way you want it to look like.

Brad Johnson: Love it. Well, this has been fun. Thanks for carving out some time on a Friday morning. And it sounds like it’s a pretty good Friday, I know for Brent. Kim, are you doing anything fun?

Kim Wells: Watching the kids.

Brent Wells: She looks all right.

Kim Wells: Yeah. Sounds I’m going to be good. I do have to just aside and then tell you the funniest story, the first time he went hunting really quick.

Brad Johnson: Is this the roast section for Brent?

Kim Wells: This is the roast. You can cut the podcast around now.

Brad Johnson: Now, we’ve got it. We might need to put this in. Go ahead.

Kim Wells: So, he went hunting with his brother. Like, apparently, they were trying to map out something and like a string of deer because my dad’s watching from a distance because it’s very flat where we live and like, a bunch of deer run behind them. So, they did that. They didn’t get anything. And so, he comes home.

Brent Wells: It’s a little more dramatic than that. We decided we’d had so little luck we were going to drive the deer to us. So, as I laid it in a field and I set my six foot six Sasquatch-looking brother into the woods to drive the deer out, as I was laying there, all his farm crew watched them run directly behind me out of the woods and away. So, it was an intentional act that failed miserably.

Brad Johnson: So, it sounds like your brother did his part of the job?

Brent Wells: Yeah, I looked the wrong way.

Kim Wells: But this is the funnier thing to me, Brad. So, he comes home, he’s bombed, and then like, I go, just are… we have some woods behind our house. I go look out the back door and there’s just a big buck, like looking over our fence directly at us. And I’m like, “Hey, Brent, it was your buck.”

Brent Wells: I was just drinking my coffee. Like, why, God, what did I do?

Brad Johnson: Well, in Kansas, what would happen is you’d go out on like the back deck with your rifle and that would be your deer. Are you in a neighborhood, like where you can’t do this or…

Brent Wells: Oh, yeah, absolutely not. No, you can’t do that.

Brad Johnson: That wouldn’t be good then. Okay, yeah, don’t do that.

Brent Wells: Trust me. It would have happened by now if I could get away with it. That’s not a good idea.

Brad Johnson: Yeah. All right, well, hey, good luck today. I just feel uns… text me a picture if you get a big one today. I have a feeling for some reason, I don’t know why.

Brent Wells: All right, man, we’ll do.

Brad Johnson: All right. Well, enjoy your Friday. It’s been a pleasure, as always. Looking forward to hanging here about a month. Yeah, a little over a month, we’ll be hanging or so. And it’ll be much warmer. It’ll be, Palm Springs, I’m guessing the weather will be nice.

Brent Wells: Good.

Brad Johnson: All right, till next time.

Kim Wells: Thanks, Brad.

Brent Wells: Hope to see you.