Brad Johnson: Well, Anthony, you and I were talking. I was going to be up in Chicago. And after this year, how it’s all played out, we’re like, “It’s time for round 2 on the podcast.” And I was actually looking back as I was prepping for this. So, you were Episode 16 in the early days of the DBDL podcast.
Anthony Pellegrino: Where are you at now?
Brad Johnson: I believe actually this will be our 100th episode. This is Episode 100 by the time it hits.
Anthony Pellegrino: Seriously?
Brad Johnson: Yeah.
Anthony Pellegrino: I feel honored.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. Nice round number. Actually, it’s the first time I’ve ever gone through the century mark on a podcast because the last one that I started, that ended in minus 70s, I think.
Anthony Pellegrino: Really?
Brad Johnson: And so, here we are.
Anthony Pellegrino: Okay. That was just a coincidence, right?
Brad Johnson: Yeah. So, for those that didn’t catch our first conversation, one of my favorite conversations I’ve ever done on the show, not just saying that because we’re here, but one of the most viewed and downloaded ever in the history of all of our Triad member spotlights, that conversation went live June 14th, 2023. And what’s wild, on that conversation you’re like, “Hey, I think we’re pacing for 230, 240, 250.”
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: But that year, when it ended, $232 million of assets gathered as a firm.
Anthony Pellegrino: That’s right.
Brad Johnson: This year, as we record today, November 11th of 2024, you are pacing for a double or more from last year, $460 million plus.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yes.
Brad Johnson: Which is wild.
Anthony Pellegrino: You’re right. So, you’re right. So, my goal, look, I didn’t expect that, right? We had some pieces put together in place and we set goals. We had our normal goal. We had our stretch goal. We had a super stretch goal. We hit the super stretch goal in like end of August, September. So, at this point, I’m like I kept adjusting it. But yeah, to your point, we’re pacing to more than double year-over-year, which I feel, look, if you’re at $30 million and you double to 60, if you’re at 50 and doubled to 100 but going from like 230 to doubling to 460 or more, I found that’s a pretty difficult thing to do. So, now it’s like, okay, what does next year bring?
Brad Johnson: Well, you know what I love is I keep and we’ve had a few conversations. I can just think of Matt Dixon’s episode that just went live and he had a double, a double, a double three years ago. But as those numbers get bigger, that’s a harder number to do.
Anthony Pellegrino: It is. Yeah, I love that.
Brad Johnson: But what I love, I mean, he’s been here. He actually shared on that episode one of the things that was a breakthrough for him is he was able to not just imagine what it could look like, but actually see it. Walk around the office and say, “Oh, okay, cool. That’s what we mean by building out multiple advisor teams. Oh, this is what it looks like to expand the new business team.”
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: And let’s just get into it. So, Triad, you coined the phrase early in and we talked about this on the last conversation. By the way, if you didn’t listen to Episode 16, just go back. We get into Anthony’s backstory, how he got into this. And what I love about that conversation, if we just summarize it, it was how you flipped from like this success track where it was marketing, sales, marketing, sales all on your shoulders, and you kind of unlocked. I’ve got to step out of the financial advisor world, Anthony, and I’ve got to now start to step into business owner If I’m going to scale this thing bigger than me. We talk about it a lot on the podcast, Do Business. Do Life, build a business that blesses your life, doesn’t become your life.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yes.
Brad Johnson: You unpacked a lot of that.
Anthony Pellegrino: Sure.
Brad Johnson: Now, I want to expand on that. And we were kind of riffing a little bit before we hit record. But when you say run as a pack, what I love is you actually breathe it, you live it. As a Triad member, you’re like you’ve been super gracious with your time, with your office, and you’ve just like said, “Hey, just come on up to Chicago, check it out, spend some time in the office, come watch me do my thing.” And what I love is also we’ve had a lot of people bring their team up and they’re like, “Oh, okay. That’s what that looks like. It’s not just the founder.”
Anthony Pellegrino: That’s right.
Brad Johnson: And I believe that to be one of the truest business hacks in life. It’s go watch or learn from somebody that’s further down that path. And it works in business, it works in finance, it works in… Now, Michael Hyatt’s been a great mentor to me in my marriage and being a parent. He was just further down the path than I was, right?
Anthony Pellegrino: Sure. Sharing wisdom.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. And so, let’s go. What are some of those learnings you’ve seen advisors that are kind of figuring it out and they’re at these inflection points or they’re maybe tapping that glass ceiling of the business or stressed out like you were not too many years back where you’re like, “Man, I can’t do another grind of a year”? What have you seen and what’s been playing out in some of those conversations?
Anthony Pellegrino: Well, before I even answer that, I mean, bringing up Matt, right? So, he came in here two years ago. And I think he was at, what, 45, $47 million. And he had the mindset. He said, “Anthony, if I can see it, what you’re doing, see the operation, see the team then I can’t unsee it. Then I’ve got this visual in my brain to say, ‘Okay, this is what they’re doing. This is what it looks like. Now, I can go do that.’” And he has. So, then two years, I think he went from like 47 to like 80, 85, and now pacing 160.
Brad Johnson: Right. Yeah, north of 160, I think, which is wild.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah. So, in two years, which is awesome, we’ve had ongoing communication and things we could do to help. But if you ask him, he’ll attribute a lot of that coming back here and just kind of seeing the full operation. So, I think that’s one of the hacks you’re talking about is being open, having an abundance mindset, and allowing some other advisors to come through and see it. So, look, if I have somebody who’s doing $2 billion a year, $10 billion a year, are you kidding me? Let me in. Let me see what you’re doing because I want to go to the next level. And I feel having a thirst to always improve, thirst for what’s next is the engine that drives the machine, so not being satisfied.
But, yeah, I think, Brad, to your question, I mean a lot of advisors, their mindset is, “I’m kind of stuck behind the desk,” right? It’s like, how do I get out from doing… What made me successful and what was a blessing early on, now can become a pain point. And what do I mean by that? It’s like in your early days, you’re onboarding anything you can just to keep the machine going. But then all of a sudden, two years, three years, five years later, ten years later, you have a servicing nightmare because there’s only so many hours in the day. And now the thing that blessed you can hurt you because you’ve got great connections and great relationships. Now, all these people, they want you, right? It’s like, “Hey, hey, you’re the one that I came to.” And Shawn has a great saying and it’s, “What brought them to you is what they expect from you.”
Brad Johnson: So true.
Anthony Pellegrino: So true. So, I dealt with that. So, it was like, “No. Anthony. Anthony. We want to see Anthony.” And we had to have these conversations with clients. And I created a system, created a process in which we almost lost like nobody, no client really lost utilizing this, how to transition all those off of me to build the team to service the clients. And, Brad, truth be told, the other advisors that we have these fiduciary advisors to service our clients, they’re doing better for the client than I could because I’m stretched 90 different directions. And then in a way, I felt like it was getting to a point where those clients were getting the scraps of me. So, if I had very competent, high-level quality people, like-minded, trained up like me, and they are now dedicated to them, not spread as thinly as I was, then that’s the right thing for the client, right?
So, that’s the type of thing that kind of freed me up to then say, “Okay. That was phase one. Now, how do I go from everything going through me to developing it for the team and creating the marketing in which I can be that rainmaker?” And now we’ve kind of evolved where the next phase was everything coming through me to help fill calendars to now we’ve got four people that are going out speaking and filling calendars besides just myself.
Brad Johnson: Okay. So, hold up. I want to break some of this down, which has been really cool to watch. It’s been an evolution. And I heard it said once, if you’re fixing the same problem this year in your business as you were a year ago in business, it just means you’re not growing, evolving, right?
Anthony Pellegrino: You’re not solving the problem, that’s for sure.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. And Dan Sullivan says it this way, which I love, this thought process, “What if procrastination was a source of wisdom?” And so, I want to go back to when all of this was on your shoulders. Anthony, the solo advisor that is in charge of sales, actually let’s go before that, in charge of marketing, all of the seminars you were doing, all of the radio shows back in the day, all of that. So, before, I’m manufacturing the appointments to now land on my own calendar because I’m head of sales as well. Singular. So, now you’re selling, you’re servicing, and you’re planning, building whatever plans are required, right? So, all of that’s on your shoulders. And by the way, they expect me to follow through operations, which is fulfilling on those promises that were made. Now, it’s like, “Dang, I got to fill the calendar. I’ve got to do everything while they’re here, and then everything on the back end.” And that’s where I’ve seen just advisors get eaten alive.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah. The wheels come off.
Brad Johnson: Because the more successful you are on the front end, it’s like, “Oh, shoot. Like, I’m carrying around this 800 pounds on my shoulders everywhere I go.”
Anthony Pellegrino: Servicing nightmare. Yeah.
Brad Johnson: So, what I saw you start to do, and where I’ve seen most advisors address this, most advisors are not operations people.
Anthony Pellegrino: Very true.
Brad Johnson: So, that’s typically the first thing, “Hey, we’ll bring in somebody to do the new business,” that sort of stuff. And then what they tend to be is the front-end marketing and the during the sales. What I saw you start to do is work yourself out of the selling, bring other advisors, train them up. And eventually, you got that completely off your plate where when did you officially stop taking all appointments, client appointments? Do you remember?
Anthony Pellegrino: It has to be like four years ago.
Brad Johnson: Four years?
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah. Solid four years.
Brad Johnson: And is it? We’re in Chicago.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: You grew up a huge Michael Jordan fan. In fact, I think is that…? We’re on camera. Where is that? Did you?
Anthony Pellegrino: I got it.
Brad Johnson: You have a prop somewhere which was kind of cool.
Anthony Pellegrino: This was unexpected. I happened to show you before we started, and you’re like, “Yeah. Let me see.”
Brad Johnson: So, this for the camera here, oh, there we are. So, here’s a Michael Jordan rookie card.
Anthony Pellegrino: Hold on. That is the infamous Michael Jordan Fleer Rookie Card, which is like the most coveted.
Brad Johnson: ’86 Fleer. Now, this is one in poor shape. Otherwise, it would be like a $150,000, $200,000 card.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah. Or more or more upwards of a mil.
Brad Johnson: So, anyway, we’re in Chicago. And is it true? Because now we’re on record. If Michael Jordan himself walked in, who was your childhood idol along with the rest of America our age group, if Michael Jordan walked in and said, “Hey, I’ve got some money I want to put with Goldstone,” would they meet with you or would they meet with another team member or would he meet with you or another team member?
Anthony Pellegrino: Jordan’s meeting with me.
Brad Johnson: Okay. So, that’s the one exception?
Anthony Pellegrino: So, that is an exception. Yeah.
Brad Johnson: So, if Michael Jordan happens to see this, you will make an exception.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yes. MJ, come on in. One Chicago guy to another, yes.
Brad Johnson: But other than that, you truly have removed yourself from that.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: And was it a combination of it didn’t bring you the joy it did in the early years? Was it, “Hey, in order for this business to grow and evolve, I need to now go to more of the front-end marketing,” which we’re going to get into a little bit, even how you started to scale that? But what was like you, the founder, what I love is you’re starting to build a business that truly speaks to your core and how you want to build a business, but at the same time serves your team, serves your clients. So, what was the…
Anthony Pellegrino: Catalyst?
Brad Johnson: Yeah, what was the catalyst for that?
Anthony Pellegrino: Well, first of all, going back to there’s burnout, right? Because you’re wearing many hats and then the other component is you’ve got a team of X amount, pick a number, whatever it was, from 12 to 15 to 20. So, there were just too many things to do. And I felt like I was being diluted. And again, if clients were just getting fragments of me, that’s not the right thing for them, right?
Brad Johnson: Yeah.
Anthony Pellegrino: So, I said, “Okay. There has to be a better way in which we could better serve our clients. Bring them more value.” What the clients expect brought them to us is what they expect from us. How do we over-serve and fulfill the promises we made to our clients? So, I said, “Okay. This is not a one-man job. This takes a team.” So, yeah, it’s…
Brad Johnson: We versus I.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah. Who not how?
Brad Johnson: Like, if you went back four years, what I’ve always loved about you like you’ve got a heart to serve. Like, that’s one of the reasons you have scaled this business to the level is like you care and that is super evident in every conversation with your team, with the people that come in through those doors right behind you. I would assume the level of planning since you’ve removed yourself from that has gone up exponentially because now you’ve created specialists that like you have at least one, if not multiple team members, all they do is geek out and build world-class plans. Where back when it was just you, it’s like there was not enough of you to go around to even do that.
Anthony Pellegrino: 100%. Yeah. I mean, look, you’re right. When I was behind the desk, right, just with clients, and again, you’re stacking them one after another after another. There’s only so many hours in the day so you will cap out, right? Any advisor watching this and they’re in growth mode and it’s all really coming back through you, you are that kink in the funnel. You’re blocking it up, right? Because you don’t have 42-hour days, right? There are 24 and that’s it. So, I knew I had to expand and we brought in specialists. Now, I’ve got multiple people on a planning team. I’ve got multiple people on a tax planning team including super high-level CPA, super high-level IRS enrolled agents, CFPs. So, we’re bringing in different value to people.
And the byproduct of that is also we’re attracting higher and higher and higher asset-sized clients, right, asset protection, I mean, all these different things. So, none of that is possible with me stuck behind the desk and with me being the only one that’s going out there bringing business in for the company.
Brad Johnson: Okay. So, let’s now rewind. So, really, those of you that haven’t listened to the episode, Shawn and I, Shawn, my co-founder at Triad, I believe it was Episode 2 where we kind of unpack the different types of advisors in that conversation. But where I’ve seen, historically, most advisors like yourself, like we said, “Hey, typically operations is the first thing.” So, if we look at three different pieces of business, marketing before, sales during, ops after, ops is typically the first one. Then there’s a focus where some never fully remove themselves out of sales or don’t really want to because they love those client interactions. But you basically grew the team in a way where you could step out of sales about four years ago.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yes.
Brad Johnson: What was your total? Do you remember your firm’s production? So, last year you were still seeing people?
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah. I want to say my last year, my personal production was around 65 as an individual. I think as a firm, we’re like 78. And then, but once I remove myself, right, 78 jumped to $171 million year-over-year new assets. Then we went from 171 to like 203, 204, 204 to 230, and now pacing double that, 460 plus.
Brad Johnson: Well, if you’re open to, you were showing me a screenshot before we hit record. This is your team.
Anthony Pellegrino: Sure.
Brad Johnson: And one of the things which kind of takes us into you focusing on replicating a similar model and marketing that we’ll get into. But you said, “Hey, one of the things I’m most proud of is we’re building…” I think the way you put it is a lot of advisors, founders are scared because they’re like, “I’m going to train my competition.”
Anthony Pellegrino: Yes.
Brad Johnson: And what you’ve done is build it in a way that there’s career tracks that’s specialized for these advisors. And you showed me a little screenshot. You’ve got Brian, who was your first guy, $160 million.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yep.
Brad Johnson: Is that year-to-date?
Anthony Pellegrino: Yes.
Brad Johnson: So, if we show it to this camera here, if you don’t mind.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah, sure thing. So, here’s one, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. Yeah. So, that’s like our top five advisors.
Brad Johnson: So, your first guy, 160. This is year-to-date as of November 11 today.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah. With, what, of roughly seven full weeks. This was 11th so almost two months.
Brad Johnson: So, then Joe who’s 26 years old, who’s been with the firm three years, $70 million year-to-date.
Anthony Pellegrino: July 30th turned 26 years of age. This guy, he’ll probably finish the year. He’s almost 70 now so he’ll probably finish the year at least 80, 85. Now, think about that, $85 million, 3rd full year, 26 years of age.
Brad Johnson: It’s wild.
Anthony Pellegrino: Then another guy, Camil, 25 years of age, second full year, and he’s over 45. He’ll probably finish the year closer to 55. So, $55 million as a 25-year-old, second full year, running our process, our system, our way.
Brad Johnson: So, before we jump to marketing because there are some advisors watching or listening right now. Their brains just clicked off. They’re like, “Okay. Well, Anthony’s like he’s got some special formula I could never replicate.” The truth is three years ago you had one guy.
Anthony Pellegrino: That’s absolutely right. No. Four or five years ago, we had one guy. It was me, right?
Brad Johnson: So, how did you unlock…
Anthony Pellegrino: Revenues come in.
Brad Johnson: What was like if you said, “Hey, here’s one or two things…” If I was talking to Anthony from five years ago and I could rewind the clock and say, “Anthony, just…” I think you basically said, “Get out of your own way.”
Anthony Pellegrino: Yes.
Brad Johnson: Like, how could you unlock that going back if you were to give yourself advice five years ago that might help advisors listening or watching?
Anthony Pellegrino: I should have done it sooner. That’s the advice. I should have done it sooner because I allowed myself, look, we grew to a point where I was willing our growth to happen. And we were having the growth of $78 million as a company, me doing 65 of it. And, Brad, that was like sheer force.
Brad Johnson: Like red lining out.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yes. RPMs going and on that gerbil wheel. And I knew at that point I was facing burnout. We know that story, right? I shared it on the last podcast. But if I could have gone back and did this sooner then we’d be in a different position. Nonetheless, no regrets. We are where we are. Growth trajectory and I’m four-plus years without it. But, yeah, I think one of the things that prevented me, a lot of people had the mindset back then I hear it in the industry of, “Oh, well, you have to be careful. You’re bringing other advisors in and you will train up future competitors.” And to that I say, “No way. Have an abundance mindset. Have a self-belief and conviction of what you’re doing and what you’re building. Build something in which people want to be a part of that they’ll never want to leave.”
So, I feel very blessed that some of the advisors we just talked about, right? So, I’ve got one advisor going on 12 years with us, another going on ten, another seven, eight, another six. And then a couple of newer guys that are doing what they’re doing in three years, in two years. But we have never, knock on wood, and by the grace of God, we have never lost an advisor. We never had… Let me just rephrase that. We’ve never had any advisor left. It was like they just weren’t a good fit and we had asked them, right? But no one has left us. They come here, they get plugged into our system, we train them up, we coach them, we support them, we create opportunities. And we build something, Brad, in which why would they ever want to leave?
Brad Johnson: Yeah. And is it fair to say now the training process is not as much on you because you have a seasoned sales leader?
Anthony Pellegrino: Yep.
Brad Johnson: That is now replicate… I mean, he’s in the trenches every day having the conversations.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yes.
Brad Johnson: So, now you have also removed yourself from, I don’t want to say you aren’t… You’re training them. You’re in the game.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: But the bulk of the guy that’s training them is not you because that’s the guy leading the sales team.
Anthony Pellegrino: 100%.
Brad Johnson: And now what I’m seeing is just as you did those numbers, the cycle time is accelerating. Like, Brian, your first guy, did not get to $70 million as quickly as Joey did. And now your third guy you mentioned, he’s getting there even faster than Joey did.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yes.
Brad Johnson: What’s creating that? Just this flywheel effect of just replicating the stuff over and over?
Anthony Pellegrino: I believe that that’s part of it. I think it’s a combo of two things. A, we now have the system dialed in, right? And you’re spot on. So, what I did and I really poured into Brian and our lead advisor, and then he poured into Joe and then Joe poured into Camil, and then next and next. But we have this, and that’s a great observation, Brad, that the speed in which they’re achieving those levels, right? Brian was not writing $85 million his third year with us, right? It took him maybe eight years.
Brad Johnson: He’s like, “What the heck, bro?”
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: He’s like, “Why wasn’t I on the Joey track? Come on.”
Anthony Pellegrino: Wait, wait, wait. How about the competitor of me that’s pissed off that I didn’t write $160 million in business myself, right? But that’s okay. That’s because the business has evolved and I was wearing so many hats. And again, one of the biggest things is some of the moves that we’re making were a magnet in attracting, again, higher and higher and higher net worth clients. But again, the system is like a machine. But here’s, you know the coolest thing about this?
Brad Johnson: You know what Elon Musk would call that?
Anthony Pellegrino: What?
Brad Johnson: You’ve shortened the cycle time. Like, if you read his book, he talks about the algorithm he uses in all his businesses.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yes.
Brad Johnson: You’ve shortened the cycle time. That’s what you did.
Anthony Pellegrino: Elon. Okay. That’s what he talks about?
Brad Johnson: Yeah.
Anthony Pellegrino: So, listen, one of my favorite Elon quotes, I love this. He said, I love this, right here, “Stop being patient and start asking yourselves, ‘How do I accomplish my ten-year plan in the next six months?’ You’ll probably fail, but you’ll be a lot further along than the person who simply accepted that it was going to take them ten years.” So, think what you want to do in the next ten years. Make it happen in six months. So, that is part of the mindset that we have here, too.
Brad Johnson: I love that. Okay. Now…
Anthony Pellegrino: Wait. Can I say one more thing?
Brad Johnson: Yeah, please.
Anthony Pellegrino: One of the coolest things about this, Brad, though, is this is duplicatable. You follow me? So, this is not like, okay, so this only exists within the walls of Goldstone and that’s it. Like, what we have, the scalability of this, the training of it, duplicating what we do as case in point, Matt Dixon. And he’s not the only one, right, that have come through the walls here, sat in with us, spent some time with us, and saw similar things happen to their business. But, yeah, now we’re at a point where this is kind of plug-and-play. We’ve got to bring in the right people, which we’ve got some systems on how to find those people, how to train those people, and then turn them loose.
Brad Johnson: Yeah, It’s not too different than what McDonald’s does. They took a system and then they franchised it. And what you’re doing is you’re specializing each of these roles.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yep.
Brad Johnson: And now it was hardest the first time. And then the second time, it gets a little easier and you refine it, which I’m sure you have multiple times. The third time’s even easier. And now it’s like, “Oh, cool. Time to add a pod, a new sales pod, a new service pod, a new planning pod.” But the first time’s the hardest. From there, it’s almost like the moment you start playing the game with different rules, I’m not an advisor anymore. I’m a business owner.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yes.
Brad Johnson: And the moment you break through that ceiling, it’s like, “Where has this been?”
Anthony Pellegrino: 100%.
Brad Johnson: And then you just think differently.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yes.
Brad Johnson: So, that’s what I’ve observed that’s just been awesome. So, can we take that same playbook?
Anthony Pellegrino: Yes.
Brad Johnson: Because I think if we look at sales, a lot of it starts like, “Yeah, okay, that’s obvious. I got to add more advisors to the team so I can drive more revenue, see more appointments.” Here’s been a learning since our last one, the last pod, which was a little over a year and a half ago, right? You took that same blueprint, that same model, and as soon as you exited appointments, you applied that to the marketing side. And I think the term rainmaker oftentimes gets overused in our industry but it’s like, “Hey, I’m going to rain-make appointments.” But I think that’s where most advisors like it’s almost like, “Okay, cool. I fixed it. Now, I’m over here just manufacturing appointments.” But you took the same framework and you said, “What if…”
Anthony Pellegrino: I could duplicate myself.
Brad Johnson: “I apply that to marketing?”
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: So, can you unpack what that looks like?
Anthony Pellegrino: Sure. And, yeah, to the whole point about, Brad, what you’re talking about of shortening the learning curve, right, in learning and getting better, I give this example in the past. I don’t know if I did it in the last podcast, but I said, it’s kind of like this. You could take somebody that perhaps has been golfing for the last 30 years, maybe the wrong way. Have you seen my golf swing?
Brad Johnson: I have. And you’ve seen mine.
Anthony Pellegrino: And I’ve seen yours. Okay. Which I think is…
Brad Johnson: In fact, on one hole, I saw it three times in a row I think before you hit the ball.
Anthony Pellegrino: That was one of the deepest laughs we both ever had. I mean, I went down to my knees in the garage.
Brad Johnson: We’ve been able to have a good time.
Anthony Pellegrino: Totally.
Brad Johnson: There’s no doubt.
Anthony Pellegrino: But you could take someone that’s been golfing 30 years perhaps the wrong way, never corrected a swing, just whatever. Never had good lessons. And then you could take someone who’s maybe physically capable, and if they spent, they never swung a club in their life, but if they got plugged side by side with Tiger Woods for six months straight, right? And the only thing they ever learned was not the bad habits, they learned the right way, the only way, it’s possible that that guy, in six months of learning the right way, could beat the guy that’s been doing it for 30 years the wrong way. So, that makes sense?
Brad Johnson: 100%. There’s no bad habits untrained.
Anthony Pellegrino: That’s exactly right.
Brad Johnson: See it all the time in supervisor world.
Anthony Pellegrino: So, that is part of what we’re doing with the type of people that we’re bringing in with our team members, with our advisors, and now, it’s plug and play into the system.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. And the other thing I think, to add on to that thought, is when they show up here, actually just heard this, I was on another conversation. It was a firm that had two advisors, two sales advisors. Their team, what they said is, and I’m not going to share the advisor’s name, let’s just say Joe and Bob, right? They said, and this is their team talking, not even the clients. They’re like, if you sit down with Joe and follow his sales process, and then you went over into the other conference room and Bob did his sales process, same company, two advisors, completely different approach and process. So, which that’s so… You can’t scale that.
Now, everybody’s built on a personality versus a process. And what you did was it did take work. I don’t want to like, you did the work to say, okay, this is what we’re going to refine. This is our process. But that unlocked this. Okay, now, we can add multiple advisors to the team and everybody has the same conversation. They’re going to the same end goal. They’re selling the same proprietary process and all of that.
Anthony Pellegrino: Rinse and repeat over and over, yep.
Brad Johnson: Okay, so let’s apply that to marketing. How’s that worked?
Anthony Pellegrino: So, same thing, right, Brad. So, my initial thing that I wanted to solve for the issue back in the day was the vast majority of the revenue was coming through me, right? One person kind of in the bottom of that funnel. So, I figure out a way how to duplicate myself, create the team, scale it, freed me up, create a lot more time. But then, I went through something where, as I share with you, we ended up moving our family from Chicago to Franklin, Tennessee. I still keep a place here, too, in Chicago, and I’ll ping back and forth. So, it’s great.
But I’m like, okay, is there a way I can, because I love my wife, I love my children, I love and value the time I have with them. And as much as I love the business and it’s like my fourth child, right? It’s like they’re the most important. So, how do I take some of that off of me on the marketing side? So, yeah, I went from just me to training up three other speakers that we can now divide and conquer and go back out. So, in any given evening, I could have somebody speaking in Wisconsin, somebody is in Chicago, somebody is in Ohio, while I’m at home in Tennessee with the family.
So, that is another thing to overcome the whole fear and thought of, oh, so you’re going to teach them how to run your workshops, what have you. And then why did they need you? They’ll go do their thing. And number one, I think you have to have confidence, like unshakable confidence that that’s not going to happen. And again, if you build something that everybody wants to be a part of, they’ll never leave. And that’s where we’re at right now.
So, I have three different people that are helping do that, which also has freed me up to evolve from just advisor to rainmaker. And now, I feel I’ve evolved more into CEO and chief visionary officer, right? Because that really opens up my creative to say what’s next? What’s next? What else can we do to serve our clients? What other value adds can we bring in? How do I evolve this? What other spokes in the marketing wheel can I bring in that we weren’t doing before now that I have the extra time to put the creative in?
Brad Johnson: An entrepreneur, like if you really, like, take yourself out of the financial advisor world, true entrepreneurs, you build businesses that solve problems. And so, if we look at Chicago’s a very large market. That’s a great problem to have. You could have 0.01% of the investable assets here.
Anthony Pellegrino: And you’re doing well.
Brad Johnson: And retire very nicely. And so, I just look back and it’s almost as if you’re putting a magnifying glass on each little area of your business, like it’s breaking here. And it was originally breaking when only Anthony can see appointments. And now, you want to grow. So, now you’re tapping into this max revenue, cannot do more. Anthony has no more hours left in the day.
Now, you replicate that. You fix that. You remove yourself even from that world. Then you jump over into marketing. Now, the next one is Anthony can only do so many live experiences, so many seminars. Before, it’s like, we actually just ran into the same problem in a different world of your business because guess what? You actually want to know your family and spend time with them, right?
So, now, you’re like, okay, we’ve got an advisor team. Now, the problem is I need to manufacture more appointments for them to keep their calendars, back to keeping a team happy so they never want to leave. So, now, you’re like, okay, apply same lesson, different area, replicate, train, systematize, so on the marketing side, back to how you explained, here is our appointment process. It’s dialed in. It’s the same whether they meet with Advisor A, B, or C. How much of that applies to the, let’s just say a public event, a public seminar? How much of it is formulaic? Like, hey, here is like the open, the middle, the end? How much is different based on speaker versus the same, I guess would be a way to ask that?
Anthony Pellegrino: Well, look, so here’s what I found about presenting, right? That you could teach it up a certain way using this certain structure and format. But someone’s personality is automatically, it’s going to force it to be 10% to 15% different, right? So, even though the structure is the same, open, close, but even so, like I want somebody to use their own… Their own personal story makes them unique and authentic and genuine, right? So, they can’t use my story, growing up the way I did in Chicago, that’s inauthentic to them, right? And I feel by far, the most important thing when presenting is being genuine, authentic, and connecting with the people. It’s impossible for you to connect if you’re telling a story that’s not even true.
Brad Johnson: It’s somebody else’s. You’re like telling a lie in front of an audience.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah, there’s no way that that can come over as being the magnetism that’s created. So, there you go. So, the byproduct of an opening story, a closing story being their own, is going to make that unique to them. But with that being said, yes, Brad, as far as the formula and the structure, everything else is pretty much on point. So, again, that’s something that can be duplicated over and over and over.
I’ve had other advisors come up to visit with us and sit in on a workshop that I’ve conducted or one of my other team members have conducted, and we just did this recently. We had about four other advisors came up, we went, sat in together, did that that evening, the following day, came here in the conference room and spent an entire day deconstructing what we watched the night before. And people were kind of like, wow, I mean, and I said this, while that was going on, one of my team members was speaking and we grabbed dinner right afterwards. I said, listen, there are things that just transpired that you don’t even know why. So, you don’t have the why behind certain things that were said and the structure of why things were brought up in a sequence, in a certain order. But once we sat down the following day and deconstructed it, I mean, it was like light bulb moments going off all over the room.
Brad Johnson: Well, for context, those that don’t know your whole backstory because they haven’t gone and listened to the last episode yet, guesstimating how many hundreds of seminar presentations have you given at this point in your career?
Anthony Pellegrino: Thousand, for sure, plus.
Brad Johnson: You know where my head went when you shared that? You know why Tony Romo, Tom Brady, I’m trying to think who else, those are the two that come to mind quickest. Eli and Peyton Manning, you know why they make such good football commentators?
Anthony Pellegrino: No. Troy Aikman and…
Brad Johnson: Troy Aikman, he’s a great one.
Anthony Pellegrino: Aikman’s awesome.
Brad Johnson: Because they’ve lived it. They’ve actually been in the trenches. They played the game. They’re looking through the eyes of other quarterbacks and what they’re reading, they’re like, when they analyze what Patrick Mahomes is seeing, it’s because they’ve been there. They’ve been on the field. And so, what I love that you, it’s like watching game film. It’s like, okay, most advisors, they’re like, “Man, I’m struggling.” And it’s like they’re getting advice from some, I mean, I’m guilty of this, I was the guy giving them advice, I’d never given a seminar before in my life. Now, I could pick some best practices, but I couldn’t see it through their eyes.
Anthony Pellegrino: Sure.
Brad Johnson: And so, what I love is it’s like, okay, let’s see it live. Now, let’s break it down from a guy that’s lived it, breed it, been heckled.
Anthony Pellegrino: Oh, yeah. Yes, I am.
Brad Johnson: You probably got.
Anthony Pellegrino: Oh, you have no idea.
Brad Johnson: We could do a whole ‘nother visit on that.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah, yeah, we should.
Brad Johnson: But is that where you see some of those breakthroughs happening, like, oh, now, I get it?
Anthony Pellegrino: 100%. Brad, I can give you the recipe and say, here it is. In fact, someone could give me a recipe to go bake or cook something and I could fall to a tee. Why is my come-out like a disaster compared to Martha Stewart’s that’s perfect or something, right? So, same thing, I could give you the road map. This is what you do and you go do and say, gosh, I’m just not getting the same results. And I think a lot of it is that deconstruction of it and understanding the why things are so, because what’s the Rener Gracie, the right move at the wrong time is the wrong move. So, some other advisor may look at that and think, oh, well, I’m going to tuck this in here. What if I do it this way?
Another thing is, it’s not just what you say, it’s how you say it. There’s time pauses in there. It’s letting things marinate. There’s reading a room of the people. And I mean, there’s a lot that goes into it.
Brad Johnson: If you were going to give, let’s just say it’s a brand-new team member at Goldstone. And let’s say it’s my first time sitting down with Anthony and you’re like, okay, no more than three things. You already hit a couple of them, connection, all that. But let’s say, like three things to focus on, I’m going to be a brand-new presenter. Like what, just high level, would you break down if you’re like, coaching me up?
Anthony Pellegrino: Well, I mean, look, I think one of the first things is when you’re just from the get-go, when you walk in, you should be coming into that room at one and a half times the pace you normally would. That sets the stage right away of, okay, this guy…
Brad Johnson: I could feel the energy.
Anthony Pellegrino: I could feel the pace and as opposed to the typical, hey, thanks for being here, thanks for coming this evening, I think if you’re opening up with just like a wham, an unexpected story, and you walk into that story, right away, in the minds of the people sitting there, you’re like, well, okay, this is…
Brad Johnson: It’s almost like, whoa, what’s going on here?
Anthony Pellegrino: A flash bang of some sort. It’s like, okay, what? This is different and it feels different. And this is going to be good, right? So, that’s one of the first things. And then I think you also have to let them know what they’re signing up for because as you go to speak, I’ll end up saying after I kind of do that, I’ll say, “Hey, tonight, this what we’re going to do. Over the next hour, I’m going to cover X, Y, Z.” What these people don’t know is you start speaking, you’re like, is this going to be two hours, an hour and a half? What is this going to be?
So, then they have this internal clock of, okay, knowing the time frame, now they’re kind of engage with you. And for me, I think it’s also being interactive, getting them involved, asking questions, and seeing a lot of hands go up, shout back answers to have them part of it with you. And look, you also have in any given night, half the room is going to be tactical thinkers and the other half are emotional thinkers. And if you don’t speak to both, you’re alienating half of the room.
And in most cases, one tactical, one emotional, in most cases, that’s a husband and wife. So, I think if you then end on the emotional side, you remind them of why they liked you right out of the gates in the beginning. And that’s one of the trigger points that helps people want to come in and see you. There’s a lot more to it, but that’s just kind of an overview.
Brad Johnson: I’ve been fortunate enough. I think I’ve only seen you speak like once. Another thing I noticed, back to the connection piece and engaging, you have a great way of affirming. So, it’s always like, okay, I’m in a room of strangers and one person will be the one person, like raise their hand first or speak up. And you instantly are like, absolutely, there’s an affirming, like, hey, this is a safe place to have a conversation. And as soon as you do that, the first one, boom, okay, it’s okay to talk. And it almost like opens a room up.
And the other thing I’ve seen, I don’t know if it’s like the Italian in you, I love like, you’re just like, let’s go. We’re all one big family here. But you are out in the crowd. You’re not up on stage, like behind a podium, like guarded. You’re literally going, like, you can tell, like, this person’s okay. I’ll tap him on the shoulder, I’ll interact with him. Oh, absolutely, that’s a great one. And you work a room. Like, you were all over that room when you present.
Anthony Pellegrino: Sure, yeah.
Brad Johnson: Is that something that evolved? You were a coach of that or it’s just kind of a natural thing then?
Anthony Pellegrino: I think natural thing, but Brad, it depends where you speak. And I could speak in a room that could be long and narrow and deep. And if you went into the room from the back, you would feel like the people towards the back are disconnected. Okay? And then if the lighting’s not right and it’s even a dim room or something because the capacity’s not that great, you have to get engaged. You have to bring them into what you’re doing. So, yeah, I think that’s just part of it.
So, the other thing is just making sure that you’re hitting on the things that are important to them. Don’t just talk about, hey, our company does this, does this, why does that matter to them? What are their pain points? What are their goals? What are they trying to solve for? So, I think you need to make sure you’re hitting all those things and not just standing up there speaking about how intelligent you are and all the things you have access to. It has to really be about them. I can’t overstate enough how connecting, connecting is super important.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. I’ve literally heard advisors say, “I hate seminars.” And you’re like, “No wonder your seminars suck.” You’re up there, you hate what you’re doing, there’s absolutely no way that another human cannot feel and sense that. So, it’s like, if you hate seminars, just cross that off the list. That shouldn’t be your marketing thing. Or as our mutual friend Tom says, if you love seminars, seminars love you back. And it’s just like part of it is just a mindset you walk into the room with.
Anthony Pellegrino: Oh, 100%. And Tom’s spot on, it’s like, but I’m also wanting to educate people. I’m wanting to… I have a genuine interest to try to help as many people as we can. Brad, I’ve seen it. And I’ve seen people for years come into our office with their handful of statements and they have their investments in 60/40, 70/30 stock/bond mix, but they don’t have a plan. They don’t have somebody that checks all the boxes that we do where everything is communicating in one cohesive, comprehensive plan.
So, I’ve seen the difference that we’ve made, the impact on so many people’s lives. So, for me, it’s almost like, I know it’s minute, but how big of a dent in this universe can we make in clients’ lives while we’re here? And that’s something that, again, we’re driven to do.
Brad Johnson: Well, I wrote this down, right? When you shared how have you been able to scale to multiple presenters, you said authentic. And the word I wrote down is there’s got to be a belief. So, if you take that belief that just like, boom, you should play this back for everybody you train, because right there, that is a belief to your core back to a CEO being a visionary. And like, here’s where we’re headed, team. Right there, you cannot invent that. That was authentic. That was real. That was true to you.
And now, it’s like, here is why we do this. We can literally change people’s lives in one evening with them if we do it in a true, authentic way to transfer that belief of here’s where we can help you and serve you. Like, how awesome is that? That’s why I love this business.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah, for sure. For sure. And listen, one of the companies that we work with, First Trust, the CEO of the company, Jim Bowen, I think his name is, I heard him speak at a Gibsons in Oak Brook over here a few years back. And he reminds me a lot of myself. Just this guy was speaking with some intensity and conviction and you can feel it and it’s like, okay, whether you agree or disagree with some of this guy, whatever he’s saying, it’s like he believes it. And if I’m aligned with that guy, I’m following that guy, You know what I mean?
So, I’ve even told my sons this. I’ve told my now 17, 16, 10-year-old, I’m like, “Listen, guys, any business, any athlete, anybody that’s successful in life, it all begins with self-belief. You have to just laser focus, but truly, truly believe in yourself.” And it’s not like, oh, I believe I can do it. It’s more than believe, it’s more knowing. I know I can do this. So, it doesn’t matter if you’re a financial advisor, doesn’t matter if you’re someone in our account specialist teams, someone who’s creating our clients, but everybody has to have this mindset of believing in ourselves, believing in our team, believing in our mission.
Brad Johnson: So, our mutual friend Ben that just joined Triad, he was telling me he saw at my last speak and he goes, “This one thing stuck with me.” And he said something to the effect of “they won’t believe unless you believe.” And he was talking, delivering a message from stage, which is everything we just talked about there. But you just apply that to life and I couldn’t agree more. I think there’s a lot. I mean, we’re talking about Do Business, Do Life. You’re a parent. I’m a parent. Whatever my kids do in life, I want them to believe in it and be so passionate that they just go get it. And there’s literally nothing that can get in their way.
Anthony Pellegrino: That’s absolutely right.
Brad Johnson: And I just love how that applies to life. It applies to business. Like, I’m getting fired up right now, just talking like…
Anthony Pellegrino: Yeah, let’s go.
Brad Johnson: But okay, well, I know… Man, this has gone fast. Let’s kind of wrap this up. I know last time was like a two-hour marathon, which is crazy. It’s still one of the top listened to and played and downloaded episodes. We got into a lot of stuff.
Anthony Pellegrino: We had a viral moment, too, right?
Brad Johnson: T-shirt time, Anthony’s T-shirt time approaching, I think, a quarter of a million views on IGs. Go check that out. But let’s get, I mean, we heard the double this year 230 and change to 460 and change. Let’s close with a little bit of your vision. Like, where’s Anthony? You just mentioned your Elon quote of taking 10 years, and what if you were doing that in six months? What’s the next 10 years look like for Anthony? And Anthony’s team, if you’re listening, he’s probably not going to make you do this in the next six months, so it’s okay. But what’s the next 10 years look like for Goldstone?
Anthony Pellegrino: So, it’s interesting that you’re talking about 10 years, right, Brad, because they say most people overestimate what they can achieve in the next 12 months, but they significantly underestimate what they can achieve over the next 10 years, right?
Brad Johnson: I believe that’s right, yeah.
Anthony Pellegrino: And when I look back at us, I think there was a… in 11 or 12-year stretch, we 20x our business. It was 20x within… Again, 11 or 12 years, 20x. So, if 10 years from now, I mean that we’re 20x, do the numbers and it’s huge. But again, if we’re making an impact on clients’ lives, if we’re, as a direct result of what we do, having them help achieve significance in their lives for our clients, then, hey, it’s a win-win, right?
So, my shift has changed in the early stages of just trying to stay afloat to now, it’s really genuinely about the clients. And when I look out 10 years from now, I don’t want to say what age I’ll be 10 years from now, but look, I’ve got three sons, right? So, one is 17, one is 16, one is 10. And if my mindset is, if any of the three boys wanted to become part of the business, which, by the way, Nick is going to college next year and he’s going to study finance and business. Super smart kids. So, we’ll see where that evolves.
But if any of the three boys or all want to be a part of it, I can’t think of a cooler thing. It’s not just a legacy of like leaving someone assets or whatever, but Chris Smith, I love his phrase. A legacy is not just what I leave to them, it’s what I leave in them. And it would be really cool to lock arms with my boys and be able to pour into them as men, fathers, leaders, business people, grow and evolve something that they can run with. Maybe. If that’s what’s God’s plan is, then so be it. If they don’t, but I’m also building the business that down the road, if none of the boys have any interest, look, you can’t do this forever. So, at some point, I’m building it to where it’s a sellable model, right? And one of the things that can increase the value of the business exponentially is where it doesn’t rely on you.
Brad Johnson: It’s not all on Anthony.
Anthony Pellegrino: No, this isn’t Pellegrino Financial, and he’s the guy. So, I think one of the beautiful things is building something. I could show you how to do it, right, where you could remove yourself and the machine is just growing, growing, growing automatically.
Brad Johnson: Well, that, so going back there. Right now, sales runs without you. You’re not actively involved.
Anthony Pellegrino: I’m living in another state.
Brad Johnson: Operation definitely runs much better without you in there.
Anthony Pellegrino: This is true.
Brad Johnson: Myself included. I going to call myself out on that. Now, you look at marketing. Now, I mean, just percentage-wise, you’re one of four. So, you’re 25% of that equation, right? Now, I know you’re doing probably more, like because you’ve put a lot of focus as far as that. But now, you’re, like, if you were hit, we call it the hit by bus test. Your marketing doesn’t implode as a business.
Anthony Pellegrino: Not at all.
Brad Johnson: Now, it might slow down. You might need to crank up a little bit more. That’s a sellable model. And the way I put that is I love that you said it’s not what you leave to them, it’s what you leave in them. Look at that from your business standpoint. If you looked and repeated that same conversation that you just had with your three sons, with your business, like what are you leaving in your business? You’ve created systems that allow it.
One of my buddies called. Someday, I want to render myself obsolete as a parent. Not that I don’t want to enjoy my kids, it’s like they don’t require me in life to be successful, right? And so, now…
Anthony Pellegrino: Independence.
Brad Johnson: So, now, what you’re doing is you’re doing the same thing with your business. And now, you have options. It’s like I have a model that my kids can earn their way into and now, be a part of someday. If I step back, they can step in and it’s a business that outlasts me. Beautiful thing.
Anthony Pellegrino: 100%. That’s real legacy.
Brad Johnson: And if they don’t, the business still outlasts me.
Anthony Pellegrino: Absolutely. And Brad, part of that is this, I think you told me, right? So, you brought me years ago to a Front Row Dads. And I think one of the things they talked about was, “Hey, we only get 18 summers with them.” And I forgot what the statistic is by the time the kids leave and go off to college, you have now spent those first 18 years, 85% of the time, right? So, now, it’s like, oh, my goodness, like 18 years, bam. And now, the rest of my life that I have left to live, only 15% is going to be the time with the kids. So, that’s another thing that would be kind of cool because beyond that, I’m seeing them on a daily with business.
Brad Johnson: Well, you’ve now created a model that it gives you a chance to bump that percentage back up the other way. If you have a child that has interest, you now bought some time back. Actually, you just reminded me like I thought I was done coaching my oldest son once he hit junior high football, and then he got picked up on a travel team. And I was able to coach him two more seasons and I bought back more time being able to coach him. That’s what you’re doing from a business aspect, which is, obviously, if it makes sense, you don’t want to force anything. But I love your approach. You’re like, I have options that if they do want to plug in, now we got a really cool model and I get a lot of that time back. So cool.
Anthony Pellegrino: 100%. That’s exactly what I’m trying to do. But look, in a weird way, it’s kind of like we’re partially there now, just in a sense that, yeah, I’m living in another state, while this machine is running predominantly in the Chicago land market just without me. And I mean, I did it this summer. I want to say it was the end of May that I was in the office right around Memorial Day left. And then I didn’t come back into the office until after Labor Day.
So, for whatever, three months, I wasn’t even in the office. And this machine’s just going at a record pace year. But I mean, again, this is something that is duplicatable. Yes, we kind of have the recipe, the road map, the architecture of how to duplicate this, but it’s definitely duplicatable.
Brad Johnson: Well, what a testament to the team, back to, if you’re an advisor out there listening in and like, oh, you didn’t do this overnight, it was one step at a time. But I think the thought process that changed was no more I, now it’s we, from here on out. So, everything, back in the early days, it was what can Anthony do, Anthony, Anthony, Anthony, and then boom, man, I’m getting burned out. Man, I don’t want to do that again next year. When you flip the scenario, it’s like we, team, what can we do? Unlimited, uncapped potential.
Anthony Pellegrino: Yes. And guess what? Everybody thrives more. Our advisors are thriving more by me separating myself in creating these opportunities for them. The clients win, they’re better served, then they could ever be just with me. And yeah, it keeps growing.
Brad Johnson: What an awesome. That is one thing I’ve truly loved about the Triad. We just turned four at Triad. My old life, I was running a small sales team, five or six. We had awesome… Like, it was great. I love those days. It was true growth of of my leadership, right? But now, I look at Triad where we’re just clipping through 100 total team members.
Now, some of the joy that I get, like I look at that was kind of my version of the I player again. And now, I get to see, like we did this pumpkin patch night with the Triad team and I see the joy it’s bringing grandparents that are there hanging out and the career tracks I see getting unlocked with team members, and it’s like, now you get to exponentially as an entrepreneur share the success where the whole, everybody wins when the business wins. It’s so cool.
And like, once you unlock that, it’s like back to the scarcity mindset of, oh, here’s how much this team member costs, or oh, what if I train my competition? It’s like, whoa, how do we invest more into the team? How do we grow faster? How do we create more career tracks? It completely changes the game. It’s so addictive once you’re like…
Anthony Pellegrino: Oh, 100%. And congrats on four years. You guys are growing leaps and bounds. And it’s pretty amazing thing to watch from an advisor, watching what you guys are doing so.
Brad Johnson: Well, thanks for the early belief. You believed before you should have.
Anthony Pellegrino: That was the transfer of belief, right? So, you won that one.
Brad Johnson: Well, hey, dude, this has been an awesome conversation. Thanks.
Anthony Pellegrino: Always.
Brad Johnson: Just always love our conversations. And it’s awesome doing business and doing life with you, my man.
Anthony Pellegrino: Always, brother.
Brad Johnson: All right. Till the next time.
Anthony Pellegrino: Let’s do it.
Brad Johnson: All right
