Brad Johnson: Welcome to another episode of Do Business Do Life. Amy Porterfield, welcome to the show.
Amy Porterfield: Hey there. Thanks so much for having me.
Brad Johnson: Well, it’s fun. I was going down memory lane and it’s always fun to have a repeat guest. You’re in the company of guys like Michael Hyatt, who I know is a good mutual friend of ours. And so, I know our last conversation was I actually looked at the data. It was May 2020. It was like a month and a half after the world shut down with COVID and you are kind enough. As tons of financial advisors were trying to figure out how to navigate the chaos of having to run a virtual business, you were kind enough to hop on. We did a livestream and you shared a lot about just how to basically do what you do in person online I guess is the best way I can put it. And so, thanks so much. I know you brought a ton of value to our audience there, and so it’s good to actually be back to a somewhat normal world and be able to talk business again with you.
Amy Porterfield: You know, it’s so funny, when we did that interview, little did we know how long we would be in that. We were babies in that whole world at the time. So, it is nice to kind of come out of that and getting back to some normalcy.
Brad Johnson: Yes. And as we were prepping here, this is kind of the second chapter of my original show, Do Business Do Life, and one of the things I went down memory lane and it’s been really cool because Michael Hyatt’s done a ton of stuff in partnership with Triad, and it’s been really cool to have him in our community but actually, you were right there when I first connected with Michael in person. Do you remember the Platform Conference, the actual live speaking conference?
Amy Porterfield: Yes, I remember it very vividly. So, that’s when you first connected with Michael?
Brad Johnson: Yeah. So, I’m trying to remember even what year that was. If you remember, please share but it was at least a decade ago now, at this point.
Amy Porterfield: It was a long time ago, for sure.
Brad Johnson: So, a little lesson on how the world works. So, I remember sitting. I’d read Michael’s book platform and I don’t know how many of those he did. I don’t think he did one or two of those but you were one of the speakers. Stu McLaren was one of the speakers and, of course, Michael was one of the speakers. And I remember I bought whatever the VIP ticket was, and then there was an offer at the end and it was for Stu, and his wife, Amy’s charity and it was if you gave a certain amount, then Michael was going to do a private mastermind. And that mastermind ended up being, I believe, it was you, Stu, and Michael in Franklin. And there was a handful of us, not too many. And so, it’s funny how life works. And I just remember in the world of finance, we’ve always been a little slow to adopt the digital world just because there’s so much compliance and suitability and it slows down the adoption because you’ve got to jump through a few hoops and checkboxes. But I just remember thinking, this is where the world is going. How can I make sure I’m at least on the financial side like I’m in the group that’s kind of leading the charge? Yes, please.
Amy Porterfield: One thing that I love that you did, and I think we need to really highlight it for a moment is that you got in the room, and in two ways. You went to an event, the platform event. You were around people in real life and then you up-leveled to this mastermind thing we did in the room. And I think as much as we’re going to talk about digital marketing and building the business online and how much you need that, there’s still something so powerful about coming out from behind your computer and getting in the room. Especially those of you who want to grow your business, there’s just nothing like that real in-person exchange. And every time I think about big moves I’ve made in my business, they’ve all started with me being in the room. And I’m an introvert, so I don’t like to be in a room. I don’t like to come out from behind my computer and I’m a homebody. I love to be home with my husband and my dog, Scout. And so, I love that I said my dog’s name, but not my husband’s name. We know the priority here. So, I think it’s just really cool that now you’re doing a bunch of things with Michael. Your business has been exploding and doing so well, but you can take it back to that moment where you were in the room. I just feel like we have to really highlight that.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. Well, and I know that’s part of your story. I remember you shared you kind of came up in the business under Tony Robbins and kind of I don’t know how, I’d love to hear the story because I never heard the full story. I don’t know if you went to one of his events and then you joined his team or how that happened but obviously that’s a guy that’s impacted a ton of people who have been in his rooms. So, how did that origin story? Was it a live event and then you joined Tony’s team or did you come right on to the team?
Amy Porterfield: You know, I’ve actually rarely have asked this part going even before I started working with him. But the truth is that I was working for Harley-Davidson and I was working at the dealership levels in marketing. So, I was in California and I had broken up with a guy that I was like madly in love with, and I couldn’t sleep at night. So, every night I’d wake up, I’d go to my couch, and I’d turn on the TV and Tony’s infomercials, I think there’s…
Brad Johnson: No.
Amy Porterfield: Yes. That they’re running like every hour all across the world. Like, there’s not an hour that his infomercial wasn’t running. I don’t know about today but back then. This is like way, this was when I was in my twenties. And so, anyway, I couldn’t sleep at night, watched these infomercials, loved everything he shared. And I thought, “I need this. This is what I need to change my life.” So, I was poor and I went to the local library and got cassette tapes of Tony’s. And then I fell in love with all of it and saved up enough money and went to an event. So, I went to Date with Destiny, I think it was. No. Unleash the Power Within was my first event and drank the Kool-Aid. It changed my life. It really, really changed things dramatically for me. And that’s when I thought I have to work for this organization. And so, fast forward, I ended up working with Tony. For about seven years, I became the Director of Content Development, which meant that I got to travel the world with Tony and the team, work on the content that he does at Unleash the Power Within and Date with Destiny, and really just get an amazing view of what it’s like helping other people change their lives and what goes into that.
And so, what happened was I was there for about six years and Tony brought in a bunch of online business owners. They were all men. They were all building businesses with digital courses, memberships, masterminds, service-based businesses, and he did kind of a focus group. We were getting more into the online space. He had digital courses. He wanted to get out into the world in a bigger way. So, he went around and he called me in to take notes. So, this is very humbling. I was brought into the meeting to take notes, I sat at a side table, and Tony said, “Tell me about your businesses.” And these guys talked about freedom more than they talked about their businesses. They were working when they wanted, how they wanted, where they wanted. They weren’t tied to client-to-client businesses. Although some of them have that, they also had this extra stream of revenue, evergreen products, digital courses, memberships that allowed them to have more freedom in their lives. And I had no idea how to do any of that. But I thought, “I want this. I want to be my own boss. I want to do my own thing. I want to call the shots. I want what these guys have. I want to make more money and more impact.”
And so, I’ve never not had a boss so it was kind of wild for me to think I could be my own but a year later, I’d left the company and started my own online business. So, 14 years later now, that was that fateful meeting. Again, I was in the room. I was in the room taking notes but I was in the room and that was where everything changed for me.
Brad Johnson: I was just having a conversation earlier today with the guy that has a massively successful startup, but it’s a fast startup. I mean, they’ve raised hundreds of millions in kind of the fintech world and he kind of shared the Jim Rohn quote, “You’re the average of the five people you surround yourself with.” And that’s like just shared my version of that, just shared your version of this stuff. And I’ve seen that consistently with ultra-successful people is be humble, be a student, get in the right room, magic happens even if you’re taking notes. I mean, if you would have just been there as a note taker. “Oh yeah, just take some notes,” send them to Tony. But no, you were there as a student. That’s different. That’s a really cool lesson.
Amy Porterfield: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: If it’s okay to share, now I’m curious. I’m like, who the hell was in that room? Like, were there any notable names or people that ended up becoming mentors that helped you on your journey on the digital front?
Amy Porterfield: Absolutely. So, if you’re in the online space, you’ll know these names very vividly. Frank Kern, Brendon Burchard, Jeff Walker, Eben Pagan. I’m trying to think of who else was in that room that I remember, but those are the guys that I very vividly remember.
Brad Johnson: That’s it. That’s already a crazy room if you just stop there.
Amy Porterfield: Right? And I had no idea who they were. And what is so cool is that, let’s say, 14, 15 years later now, Brendon Burchard is a dear friend of mine, and Jeff Walker, dear friend of mine. Never in a million years would I thought that would have happened. It’s just so cool to know like you take risks, you do things out of your comfort zone, you figure out what you want and why you want it, and you go after it and your life could be dramatically different. And so, I really do feel like I am proof of that.
Brad Johnson: That’s so cool. I’m glad. I’m glad we went there. You should tell that story more. That’s a cool story. Okay. So, you kind of really gave a pretty good synopsis of kind of how you got in the space. But for those that aren’t familiar with Amy Porterfield:, I mean, I’m just going to give you a free commercial because I know your stuff’s that good. So, Kristin Shea, who is our Chief Product Officer, and that’s one of the things we’re looking at inside of Triad is how do we take things that we know can help our Triad members and how do we turn them into easily accessible products so that we can obviously deliver that value in an intuitive way? And my friend, Michael, is like, “You need Amy’s course.” Unfortunately, your course wasn’t open at the time, so we really had to know somebody to pry the door open. But anyway, so Kristin’s a big fan, and I know we’ve used a lot of your frameworks for a lot of the stuff we’ve built here at Triad. But how do you want to expand as far as what you’re up to now? Anything outside that obviously doesn’t cover what I just said?
Amy Porterfield: I think you covered it. My passion is to help people realize that there’s a different way to do business and to do life. And I have a big audience that’s still in a 9 to 5 job and they’re looking to become their own boss and do what I did, leave that 9 to 5 job and go after what they really want. I wrote a book called Two Weeks Notice: How to Leave Your Job and Start Your Own Business. And so, that’s been a really big focus lately. But at the end of the day, I am best known for helping people take their knowledge, know-how, and skillset and turn that into a profitable digital course that they could launch over and over again, evergreen, or live launching as an additional stream of revenue. It doesn’t need to be your end all, be all. I know a lot of people that are listening they have thriving businesses in the financial world and helping people and families and doing that on a one-on-one basis and working with people and coaching people. I have many of my students who still do that on a daily basis and they love it and it’s profitable but they also want an additional stream of revenue. They can’t help everyone. They’re not affordable to everybody, and there’s no way to scale a one-on-one business like that when it’s just you or a few people. And so, having this digital course allows you to fully expand and reach far beyond who you’re able to reach today.
Brad Johnson: It’s like you, as one of my friends, says, “Clarity is kind.” And I know what you just said didn’t happen on accident. Like, even how you just delivered that, I think a lot of advisors out there struggle with It’s like, “Hey, what is it you do?” And it’s like, “Well, and then they’re kind of going down a laundry list of kind of services.” Do you mind sharing behind the scenes? How did you get that much clarity? Like, even if you rewind and go back, “Here’s what I do,” and it went boom, boom, boom then it was really crystal clear.
Amy Porterfield: So, I love this question because it’s definitely been perfected over the years. When I was first starting out, I created digital courses to help people with social media and online marketing but it was more general. And what I realized is that people were coming to me, and it created so much anxiety because they weren’t the right fit for me but I wanted to help everybody. So, for instance, someone would come to me and say, “I have a physical product, I have a t-shirt company, and I need your help to sell more physical products online.” And I don’t do that. That is not my expertise. I help people take their knowledge, know-how, and skill set, put that into a digital course and sell that online. And so, when people were coming to me with questions I didn’t really know the answer to or that created anxiety for me, I realized, “Wait a second, I really need to get clear on who I serve and what I do because I want to enjoy the work that I’m doing.” So, years ago, I put a stake in the ground to say, you know, I help people with its essence info products, information products, teachers, coaches, experts in that way.
And once I did that, my business exploded and I became more confident in what I was doing. And so, then after that, I made a conscious effort to collect testimonials to really understand how I was serving people and helping them on what that look like on the other end of the results. And so, when I started to do that, I got more confident saying, “This is working and is working at an amazing level and I’m helping the right people.” So, it took a few years for me to get really clear and stay in my lane but the last thing I’ll say is my secret sauce is I do a few things really well and I’m like a dog with a bone and I stay in my lane as there’s so many things I could do and maybe sometimes even want to do. But if I stay in my lane, I become known for something. If you ask someone who can help me create a digital course, my name is definitely going to be at the top of that list. But that’s because I was really intentional of staying in my lane and really making sure people knew this is what I’m about. And so, I think that’s helped me immensely over the years.
Brad Johnson: Well, on that front, you said something that’s going to ring true with a lot of financial advisors out there. You said, “I take something that’s hard to scale one-to-one,” you know, this conversation, one-to-one, and now how do I scale that? And one of the things we were talking about before this you’ve worked with I’m checking the stats over here, 50,000 plus students have gone through your courses. You said it’s interesting because we haven’t had a ton of financial advisors come through and we’re kind of talking about suitability, compliance, kind of, you know, sometimes that can slow down the momentum in our space. But I do know there are some advisors out there with courses, not nearly enough, but I know there’s every advisor that has a problem scaling one-to-one conversations because essentially you become a victim of your own success. It’s like, “Wait, I got nobody to see.”
And then after a while you’re like, “Hey, people are actually buying and now I’m building a book of business,” and before long it’s like, all I do is every day it’s one-to-one visits and they’re like, “How do I scale past me?” Well, being able to do some form of a digital course obviously could be an answer to that. So, on that note, if you were a financial advisor, no clue how to do a digital course, no clue on the content like what would be the first step you would start to think through on that front?
Amy Porterfield: Oh, I love this question. I’m going to answer it but I want to tell you a quick story about one of my students just to kind of put it in context. One of my students, Mark Tew, he is not a financial advisor, but he is an accountant. Okay. So, he’s in that world.
Brad Johnson: Similar. Yeah, for sure.
Amy Porterfield: And he works for a big agency and he was doing great. And what happened was he was interviewed on a random podcast one day, not his typical thing, but he said yes to it. And the podcast was about how to manage your taxes as a reseller. So, someone that sells on eBay, Amazon, Poshmark, all the different sites that you could sell on, and this company or this person who is interviewing them had so many people in their audience that didn’t know how to do their taxes as a reseller. So, he did this podcast, and then all of a sudden all these questions came flooding into his DMs after the interview. And he thought, “Wait a second, there is an audience for this and there is a need for this.” And so, he created a digital course just for resellers on how to do your taxes, how to save more money, how to manage your taxes, how to make sure that you have everything set up appropriately so you don’t get in trouble, a whole digital course on this. This guy’s never sold anything online. He was working for an agency at the time but he just saw a need.
So, fast forward to the punch line. He’s made hundreds of thousands of dollars with this first course ever launching it multiple times because he saw this need. He has since left that 9 to 5 job. He is working solely on his own now, being his own boss because he saw that need. So, everyone that’s listening as a financial advisor, I can promise you that you have some expertise in you beyond just general advising that people want to know. We call that a spotlight course. A spotlight course is a course that you shine a light on one area of your business. So, let me back up just a little bit to answer your question. One of the first things you want to think about when you’re thinking about creating a digital course is what type of course would you create? And there are three types of courses that do really well, a starter course, a spotlight course, and a signature course. So, a starter course is one-on-one jumping off. What are the three things that you need to get in order before you start to become financially secure or anything like that?
So, it’s just usually a really simple starting off course, the basics. You can either put it out there for free as a lead gen. One of my students, she has over a million people have joined her email list with a three-course that is just three modules in her areas about weight loss but it’s become a huge lead gen. So, you could do it for free. However, you could charge because when people pay, they pay attention. And I really do believe that. So, usually, a starter course is usually $100 to $200. So, it’s just pretty easy barrier. The barrier to entry is pretty low. So, that’s a starter course. A spotlight course is what Mark did. He took one area, how to help resellers save money with their taxes, and built a whole course around it. So, he shone a light on that. One of my students is a photographer. He created a spotlight course on how to make flash photography look like natural light, spotlight on one area of his expertise. Usually, you can charge more for something like that because it is more detailed between $200 and $500 for that course. And then a signature course is the Mac daddy of all courses. This is where you’re going for a total transformation.
So, I have a program, Digital Course Academy, how to create and Launch a digital course from scratch. You come in, you don’t even have an idea yet. We take you from no idea all the way to launching, but it’s more robust so you can charge more anywhere from $500 all the way up to $3,000. And so, there’s different courses you can create depending on where they fit into your customer journey. And so, that’s the first thing you want to think about. And with that, you’re starting to think about the topic, the topic and the type of course go hand in hand.
Brad Johnson: I know one of the things, a lot of ways to go here, but I know one of the things you talked about is like, what are the questions or problems that come up, the five most common, and that might be a good place to start. Are there other ways to get to? I mean, I love Mark’s story because it’s like, hey, I popped in front of an audience, and then all of them there was this massive demand for this topic. But what are ways you found that your students like if I was a financial advisor specifically, that I’d start to think through like course options?
Amy Porterfield: Okay.
Brad Johnson: What are ways to find those?
Amy Porterfield: Let’s do something kind of fun. I’ve never done it this way before but I feel like you’re going to kill it. So, let’s pretend you’re a financial advisor, okay? And I have something called the sweet spot. I talk about this in my courses and in my book, and it’s essentially to come up with your initial idea for a digital course. Now, you could change this as you go or you can create it, make some good money with it, and elevate it. But we’re going to start out with something that’s like you could sink your teeth into. And so, with the sweet spot, there are four quadrants. So, the first quadrant is where have you gotten results? So, for yourself and for your clients, what are you really good at? When people know that you’re a financial advisor and they start working with you, they’re like, “Whoa, you’re really good at this.” So, play along with me. Pretend you’re a financial advisor. What’s an area of that that you think, “I’m really good at this?”
Brad Johnson: If we go broadly, the first one that comes to mind is there’s a – so most of our clients work with retirees, and most of them, it’s the term, financial plan, like it’s very generic and it’s very like if you said financial plan, it’s like saying car and there’s like all different types and all different colors and all that. And so, one of the things that I see our best clients do is they help really define what is a holistic best-in-class financial plan. What does that mean? How is it defined? So, it’s almost the difference between a portfolio and a financial plan. And let’s talk about what that means.
Amy Porterfield: I love it. Okay. So, let’s just pretend it’s around this idea of how to create your personalized optimized financial plan. Okay. For retirees, like let’s even get even more specific.
Brad Johnson: Okay, cool.
Amy Porterfield: So, let’s say that was your initial idea. That’s the first quadrant. Have you gotten results in that area? Are you able to teach people how to do that?
Brad Johnson: Oh, 100%.
Amy Porterfield: Okay. So, that’s a big one. You need to be able to you’ve gotten results for yourself or someone else so you’re in full integrity when you teach it. Okay. So, that’s first quadrant. Second quadrant is what is the challenge or desire that you would be meeting? And so, with that idea, what’s the challenge that people have when they come to you or what is their desire?
Brad Johnson: Well, the challenge is the complexity of that. And it’s overwhelming and they don’t know where to start. The desire is, can I just wave a magic wand and this could be done, and then I could just check off a bucket list trips with my…? Do business, do life, right? It’s like I just want to do life now. I’ve done business my whole life. I just want to retire. I want to go visit the grandkids without concern of like spend with confidence and just live out my ideal retirement.
Amy Porterfield: Amen. Okay, great. So, you have this knowledge and you can get people results. You know there’s a challenge and there’s a desire. Sometimes there’s just one but for you, there’s a challenge and a desire around this, which is huge. There needs to be and you know you can meet that challenge or desire. Those two have to be aligned. The third quadrant is where are people spending money. Because we’re validating this idea. We need to make sure that people would spend money on something like this. So, my question for you, have people spent money on figuring out their financial plan? Are there podcasts about it, books about it, maybe other courses about it? Is there coaching, consulting, other advisors teaching this? Is money being spent around this desire or challenge?
Brad Johnson: Well, the beauty of it, in our space, they’re already spending money if they have money in some form of a retirement vehicle. So, they’re probably paying fees they don’t even know they’re paying in mutual funds and financial products to their existing advisor. So, that’s the beauty, is that the money is already being spent but is it being spent prudently is really the question.
Amy Porterfield: That’s great. Yes. And that’s another thing you probably would address but people absolutely spend money in this area, which is fantastic. We want to make sure that is a yes. And then the fourth quadrant is does it light you up? And this is where doing life is important here, to punctuate that. Don’t create anything where you’re not going to enjoy teaching it. Because when you have a digital course, it could be prerecorded but like I prerecord my course. So, when you buy it, all the videos are ready for you right now but I talk about courses every day like I’m doing now. If I hated it, this would never work. So, you got to make sure that you enjoy talking about it, it brings you energy, you like to show up for it. And so, as long as that is true, then those are the four quadrants. And again, this is just the jumping-off point, validating that you’ve got something that you could run with. You could massage it, play around with it, but that’s where we start. So again, your knowledge, know-how, and skill set where you’ve gotten results, the solution so that’s your challenge or your pain point that you’re solving. What are people spending money on and does it bring you joy? That’s where you find that sweet spot. And I love that you played along with me because when people come on my podcast and do that, I hate it because I’m like, “Oh gosh, I hope I have the answers.”
Brad Johnson: I was like, it kind of goes back to the thing, you know, there’s a saying, never do math in public. I was like, “Uh-oh.”
Amy Porterfield: You killed it though. And you really have brought it to life. Like, that’s where you start. And that might feel really simple to some of you, but we want to keep it simple in the beginning because action creates clarity and we need to get into action.
Brad Johnson: Okay. So, let’s take it a step further. And, Amy, thanks like that could be, that’s a free course right there, by the way, and there’s no charge. It’s on the podcast for free so thank you.
Amy Porterfield: You’re welcome.
Brad Johnson: So, on that front, we look at and I love your CPA example in Mark because very similar business model, a CPA does some form of marketing and they’re seeing appointments across the desk just like financial advisors are. So, if let’s just say the end goal is I want to get them into my office typically or there’s a lot of Zoom appointments these days. And I love the idea of either the starter course, the spotlight course if I really want to go into a niche. But if my end goal is I want to get them into the office as a potential client, is it like I go really wide with the starter course and anybody on the internet can buy it? And then is there a progression? Actually, one thing before we get to that because I’ve got a question hanging. A lot of advisors like that sounds good but they get stuck in the how of like how do I record the videos? What course platform does it go on, all of this? Do you have like just like, we’ll put this in the show notes, you have like you’ve probably tried them all. Is there a best-in-class recommendation of here’s where I love to host my courses?
Amy Porterfield: Yes. I love Searchie. Searchie is a really cool tool that I highly recommend to all my course creators. So, that’s one that I would start out with.
Brad Johnson: Is that Stu McLaren’s by chance?
Amy Porterfield: It is. Yep.
Brad Johnson: Is this the one he was telling me about where you can search and it jumps right to the section in the video?
Amy Porterfield: Yeah. Let’s talk about that for a second. So, there’s this built-in technology inside of Searchie where, let’s say, I uploaded a bunch of videos because that’s what you do in a digital course and someone types in, “How to grow my email list?” Well, Searchie will go through all of your training videos and take the person searching to the part in the video where I am talking about growing the email list. And so, you don’t have to look at 30 minutes of my video. It takes you to 12 minutes and 11 seconds in, this is where she’s talking about it. It’s incredible.
Brad Johnson: It’s like ChatGPT for videos what it sounds like.
Amy Porterfield: Exactly. Exactly.
Brad Johnson: Cool. Well, that’s good to know. Stu was telling me about this. And so, A, if you’re using it, I’m going to have to circle back on that. Cool. So, love that. So, if we go back and sorry for being all over the place with my questions here, but so we did some form of a course about what’s the commitment on a standard course, how much video is going to go like 2 hours, 3 hours, 5 hours. Like, what’s your kind of go-to length on a standard course?
Amy Porterfield: It depends on what type of course you’re creating. So, let’s just say you’re creating a starter course, that’s three to five modules max, each one maybe 30 to 45 minutes total but that means a module. With a module, I like individual lessons, I like 10-minute lessons. So, let’s say three 10-minute lessons, three modules, three videos in each lesson. So, that’s an hour and a half.
Brad Johnson: Hour and a half. Yeah. Not bad. Okay, cool. And have you found with kind of a TikTok economy, attention spans have shrunk? Are you doing that with your courses?
Amy Porterfield: Yes. So, back in the day, I used to create courses and my videos would be like an hour long, and it was no big deal. So normal. Today, my videos are about 12 to 15 minutes max each. And if I have something to say that’s going to take an hour, I just break it up and people just really feel like they’re getting through the course because one of the challenges is getting people to the end of your course, getting them committed enough to actually keep going. One of my secrets is shorter videos.
Brad Johnson: So, quicker wins.
Amy Porterfield: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: Love it. Okay. So, I’m the CPA, Mark. I do my starter course. I put it out to my network. I get some opt-in. Let’s just say there are a thousand people that opted into my course. Now, I’ve got their emails, kind of their contact info. If I’m a financial advisor and I want to take the next step and I want to get them into my office or there’s some sort of qualification, “Do they have enough money to work with me?” because I’m assuming there’s not much qualification going on here, “Do they just want to pay for the course? Here you go.” How would you think about that and taking the next step down the funnel?
Amy Porterfield: If my goal was to get people into my office so I could work with them, I’d rethink the strategy and probably would not charge for the course. I would do a beautiful job of marketing it like it is really quality because it will be, but I think I probably would give it to them for free in exchange for name and email, and I would build inside the course some kind of quiz early on assessment to figure out if they would be a good fit. And if they are a good fit, they would start, while they’re going through the course, they would start to receive emails from me talking about how I can take what they’re learning to a whole new level or the next step is to come into the office or get on a Zoom call so we could take this and explode it and make them a lot of money and give them a lot of security. So, you could still charge for it but what happens when you charge is you might get more quality people. That is true. However, you’re going to get a lot less. And so, if you just want to cast a wide net and then use your assessment to decide who you’re going to move into going to the next step, I feel like that might be the best way to go. But either of them work and I’ve seen both of them work with my students.
Brad Johnson: Cool. So, I want to go back to a conversation I literally had today with an advisor that actually has a fairly big YouTube channel, which is not common. Is there anything around the idea, and I was just doing 75 Hard, and I think there’s something with these challenges that I think we all get sucked into where it’s like for this set amount of time I’m going to level up in this area of my life and I’m just thinking like a 30-day financial challenge or something like that. Have you seen any courses where it’s like a challenge for a set amount of time or it’s this free thing and it’s like now you take this positive momentum and it’s like, “Hey, your trajectory is going this way. Here’s how to take it even to the next level higher.” Have you ever seen anything like that out of curiosity?
Amy Porterfield: Absolutely. Yeah. I see it with challenges and boot camps. So, I typically do a boot camp very similar where people get into my boot camp. It’s $37, they get into my boot camp and for two weeks I teach them the basics of how to get started with a digital course. At the end of that, I do a webinar where I show them what’s possible when they actually implement and go deeper with what I just taught and I invite them into a $2,000 course and it converts at 25% because the boot camp was so hands-on. They were engaged. They also paid a little money to be in there and I think that makes a difference, like I mentioned, but we’ve seen this over and over again. But let’s put it into the context of a financial advisor. If you’re working with people that let’s say are retirement age, so sixties, seventies. Would that be fair to say?
Brad Johnson: Yeah. I’d say some of our advisors tip into the fifties as well, but yeah, I’d say that’s not too far off.
Amy Porterfield: So, let’s say fifties, sixties, seventies. Based on the age and their generation, getting into a 30-day challenge probably isn’t something that they naturally would do. And I don’t want to be ageist because I’m older as well. And I just know I have a lot of students who are in their fifties and sixties, and I know it’s harder to get them into a challenge or a boot camp versus doing a masterclass for free and then inviting them into my course or into the next thing. It’s not like it can’t be done. I just like to be a realist here and say sometimes that’s a little tricky. However, if you did it, let’s say a challenge, you want it to be like seven days. You want it to be shorter. Again, the TikTok kind of mentality, you want it to be shorter and results faster. Instant gratification. And I do think someone even older that’s not really used to doing those kind of things would be more inclined to say, “I can do seven days and start to kind of change some things around.” So, shorten that up and I think you’ll get a bigger audience.
But yeah, what happens is after the challenge, you have to be inviting them into the next step, whether it be to work with you into a digital course, whatever it might be, where I see people really screw up with those challenges. They’re great list builders because typically you can’t get into the challenge unless you give your name and email but the power is the next step, the call to action once they’re starting to get some momentum.
Brad Johnson: Love it. So, what’s the movie that says, “I’ve got something better than eight-minute abs. Seven-minute abs?”
Amy Porterfield: Exactly. Exactly.
Brad Johnson: Same results, less time. That’s what we’re looking for. Cool. Okay. All right. I’m going to go. Kristin was kind enough. I know we brought her up. I don’t know if we brought her up when we were recording or not.
Amy Porterfield: No, we did.
Brad Johnson: So, Kristin on the Chief Product Officer side, she prepared a few notes here that I love. And so, I want to go into a different aspect that you’ve also got a lot of experience in. And I’ve been to Tony’s events. I was fortunate enough, we did some events where it was like Tony in a room of like 50, which is almost like too much power in such a small room, right?
Amy Porterfield: Totally.
Brad Johnson: But he’s one of the best coaches I’ve seen. And what I mean by that is he understands the psychology. You know, it’s one thing to share the information, but the whole other side of coaching is sharing the psychology that leads to the breakthrough and the taking of action. And I know you’ve had a lot of experience both with Tony and then in your own coaching business, but financial advisors and they’re essentially financial coaches. And so, what tips would you give just on coaching in general or maybe you mentioned on courses and how you design them to get people to take action? What are some just takeaways for if there were an advisor out there like here’s how to get your people actually follow through on your advice that you give them?
Amy Porterfield: One thing I’ve learned along the way, and I probably got this from Tony is that, you know, whatever someone wants to do, whether they want to build a portfolio, they want to change around their finances, they want to work with a financial advisor for many, many different reasons. At the end of the day, there’s like 20% is the mechanics, how you’re going to do it, how you’re going to save, how you’re going to invest. But there’s about 80% of the mindset and how they look at money, how they look at their own worth, how they look at their legacy is so incredibly important. And this applies to so many different areas. It applies to my business when people are creating courses. It applies to a financial advisor’s business as well. And so, when I say that, Tony used to teach 20% mechanics and 80% is the mindset and I believe that for everything that we do when we work with our clients.
So, my point being is that you’ve got to tap into the mindset. If you want people to get results, if you want them to stick with you, if you want them to do the work, you can’t just give them the strategy, the saving strategy, the investment strategy, even explaining to them how their money is going to work and how they’re going to make it go further. It’s not enough if you don’t help them shift their mindset. And one way to do that, the way I do it in my business for my students is in my courses when someone gets to a module that I know is going to be tough, Module 3: How to Outline Your Entire Course feels daunting to someone who’s never done it. So, before they dive in, a video will pop up and all it is is a pep talk and I’ll say, “Okay. You’re going to get into something you’re not going to like. You’re going to think you can’t do it. You’re going to think it’s going to take too long.” I take all the objections and I put them on the table and then I remind them why they’re doing this, what it means for them, and I future pace them in my pep talk. And I believe that is important for any industry that is working with someone who is looking to get results. So, it’s tapping in more into the mindset than the strategy, the techniques, the technology, whatever it might be.
Brad Johnson: That’s so good. I love that. I’m just applying that to our business and it’s like, “Hey, it’s going to require change. It’s going to require maybe starting to get into and understand things maybe you haven’t explored before or you’re unfamiliar with.” Yeah. That’s awesome. I love that. And right there, I’m going to have our coaches go back and listen because I know we pride ourselves a ton on just the curriculum, the content, and it’s a lot of the mechanics, but I think if the mindset isn’t right to your point, that’s where I’ve just seen people they just check out. It’s like, “This is overwhelming. I can’t do it. Only that advisor on the stage can do it because they’re special. It’s not me.” And so, I love just more of a focus there. Any other like just let’s call them human objection? You just kind of listed a handful there but you’ve just seen that hold people back from taking action.
Amy Porterfield: Well, a really big one is that people will say they don’t have the bandwidth or they don’t have the time right now. That one comes up a lot and I see it come across many different industries. And again, so when I do a webinar, at the end of the webinar, I’ve taught, I’ve added value, I delivered on my promise, and I sell something. So, my webinars are all free and I will always sell a digital course at the end. And after I sell it and tell them where to go to buy it, people are still on. They want to ask me questions, they’re kind of on the fence, and that’s when I literally rattle off every objection that I see come up. Much like what I said in the pep talk, you’re putting it all on the table. But the reason I do that is because I want them to know, “I know exactly what you’re thinking right now.” And so, one of the ones that comes up a lot is, “I don’t have the time, I don’t have the bandwidth.” So, what I do is exactly what I mentioned. I future pace. So, you not making time for it right now, what does that mean for you in five years from now? Where will you be? What will that look like?
If you don’t do this, you don’t move something around, make the time, or change how you’re thinking about it, what does that mean for you in just a few short years? And we talk about that and I have people type in, “If you don’t create your course now to create an additional stream of revenue, where are you going to be in a year from now? What will you be struggling with? What are you going to want to be doing but you haven’t yet?” Like, I have them answer that question. And so, again, just keep coming back to those objections but choosing the ones that are most relevant for your industry is the most important.
Brad Johnson: Love that. And I believe that is such a common objection in every business that sell something. I feel like the invention of the iPhone has created so much distraction that nobody has time for anything anymore. They didn’t have time for an hour-long course anymore. You had to scrunch it down. Have you connected with a guy named Simon Bowen before?
Amy Porterfield: No.
Brad Johnson: Out of Australia? So, he has something called a futures model. And he’s a whiteboarding expert and he’s brilliant. So, if you want an intro, happy to make it but what you just reminded me of is one of his models and he calls it the red line and the green line. And the green line is up and to the right where they want to go with life. And the red line is, I believe, what he’d say over time what happens is drift. If you’re not intentional, that red line drifts down. And what I love around procrastination is he says, “Today is the closest you will ever be to the green line, because the further you go out, the further away you get.” And so, he uses that same psychology. And that’s what you just remind me of. And what’s funny is that that simple visual model works for our advisors when they’re dealing with clients that have procrastination.
Amy Porterfield: I love that. Tell me this, your advisors that you work with, do you feel that the majority of them invest in their personal growth? Is that a big part of it? Because the reason I ask is until I really tapped into it, read the books, listen to the podcast, educated myself, and started to work on myself, I couldn’t help my students with the mindset stuff. I could do strategy all day long. I could teach you how to write a webinar that will convert like that. But until I was able to tap into their mindset, I couldn’t get them to do it. And so, do you feel like your advisors take the personal growth area seriously?
Brad Johnson: So, if I look at Triad members, one of the things we’ve just done really intentionally on purpose was we wanted, I mean, Triad is the top 1% from a what I would call revenue standpoint in our space but number two and number three are growth-minded check your ego at the door. That’s the second way we curate the community. Third is do business, do life. But specifically on that second one, lifelong learners, you’ve never arrived, we hit that really hard. And so, I do believe our community attracts a lot of podcast listeners, a lot of, I mean, any more like there’s universities out on YouTube for free based on whatever you want to learn. And so, yes, I think a lot of our community does. And I would say outside of Triad, the top performers are those type of people. They’re the ones that constantly grow, evolve, learn, challenge themselves, get uncomfortable. But I do love the mindset stuff. Chris Smith is a partner in our community and he says one thing. Are you familiar with Chris, Campfire Effect?
Amy Porterfield: Oh, that sounds very familiar.
Brad Johnson: You probably know all the same people.
Amy Porterfield: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: One of the things he talks about is financial advisors are a dime a dozen and sorry if you’re out there and you’re like a financial advisor. I don’t mean that in a mean way but he’s like you take a test and you take a couple of tests maybe, and you’re a financial advisor and you’re now legally able to give advice. But I’ll tell you what’s hard to come by, and that’s financial leaders. And those are people that are going to stand beside you. They’re going to be intentional about helping you design what it is you want. But then when time gets tough, when the market drops 20% and you want to freak out and sell everything, that’s where a financial leader is going to hold true to, “Hey, you said you wanted this.” They’re going to keep you on course. They’re going to talk you through off the cliff psychologically. And so, that’s one of the things a lot of our members have adopted is the difference between a financial leader and a financial advisor and it’s all mindset. That’s all mindset right there.
Amy Porterfield: Yes, exactly. So, that was my point being. You have to work on yourself and you’ve got to really invest in learning how to overcome all those obstacles before you start teaching it to your students or your clients. And it sounds like, yeah, I love that financial leader. That’s the difference right there.
Brad Johnson: I’m curious, Amy. Who have been the teachers whether it’s like you personally connected with them or you bought one of their courses that have most impacted how you think about your own personal mindset?
Amy Porterfield: Well, absolutely Michael Hyatt. So, Michael Hyatt has been my coach for a few years now. I’m in Nashville partly because I moved from California to Nashville because he and his family are here and we’re really close. And so, the way he thinks, his strategy, the way he stays even keel even when things are really, really crazy and chaotic, that has been incredible to me. So, he’s one of my advisors and someone that I go to a lot. But it’s funny because I have a health coach, I have a therapist, I have a business coach, and then I have a peer-ran mastermind. These are four things that reminds me I cannot do this alone. If I want to have a multimillion-dollar business, I have to invest in people that will think bigger than me, push me, encourage me, and also sometimes pick me up when I feel knocked down. I did a book launch for five months while Michael coached me and there embarrassingly were a few calls, this is such a girl thing, that I was just crying. I was overwhelmed. I was confused. I didn’t know what to do. And those are the times that I couldn’t have gotten through that alone. So, I really do believe in investing in myself so I can really help invest in my students.
Brad Johnson: Well, I’ll be real with you. I don’t think crying is just a girl thing.
Amy Porterfield: Okay. Thank you. I’m embarrassed to say it.
Brad Johnson: I mean, yeah. No, no, no. You know what’s crazy? So, Michael’s also coached Sean, my business partner, and I. And one of the things that Michael says that has always stuck with me is leaders are calm and confident.
Amy Porterfield: Yes.
Brad Johnson: No team wants to follow somebody that’s like all over the place and highs and lows of emotions. They’re looking for who’s the rock that I can be confident in that they’re going to lead me down the right path. But I’ll tell you, all leaders have those, the inner voice, the imposter syndrome, the book launch isn’t going so hot, I need somebody to lean on. And I think that’s super, I appreciate the realness because any leader that tells you they’ve never had that is just honestly, they’re just bullsh*tting you. That’s the truth.
Amy Porterfield: True. That’s so true.
Brad Johnson: Yeah, No, Michael’s been a serious voice of reason for us as well. So, it’s cool that we share that.
Amy Porterfield: I think it’s really cool we have that in common.
Brad Johnson: Well, it sounds like we need to hang out in Franklin because I know he’s got, like, a fleet of jet skis on the lake. Are you on the same lake that he’s on?
Amy Porterfield: Yes. This really shows how much I love that family. When we came to Nashville to look for a house in Nashville, we went to visit him at his lake house. And then within three months, we had purchased our first home in Nashville and it wasn’t even our main home. We got a fixer-upper lake house at the time. And so, it’s really, really fun to kind of drive our boat over and go see his family, and I just really enjoy it.
Brad Johnson: I love it. Yeah. We were trying to do something nice. I think it was his and Gail’s anniversary. And so, I was trying to DoorDash like a little surprise. I’m like, “Man, this lake must be picturesque.”
Amy Porterfield: Not at the lake.
Brad Johnson: You know what, delivered a Dairy Queen ice Cream cake. Dairy Queen ice cream cake was what we had.
Amy Porterfield: That would do. You get a scone or an ice cream cake.
Brad Johnson: Yeah, that’s my favorite, though. I’m like, “Dairy Queen Ice cream cake? That’s a go-to.”
Amy Porterfield: Agreed.
Brad Johnson: Well, cool. I know we’re getting towards the end here. I’ve got one other thought here that Kristin’s like, “You definitely have to ask Amy about this.” One of the things we coach on a lot that this should apply perfectly, you have a business course called Systems that Scale, and one of the things we coach on, the financial advisor space, it’s very much a, I think most advisors, if you ask them how they got into the business, it was the grind. It was, “Hey, I came up through this organization that I was kind of probably recruited into. Next thing I know, I’m cold calling, I’m knocking on doors,” and basically it’s a high fail rate business. It’s like the last statistic I saw I think 5% to 10% of those that get in are actually in the business four or five years later.
And so, because of that, it instills this like grind it out. It’s all on me. Like, I’m just going to make it work which works until it doesn’t. And then you’re red-lined out and your calendar’s full. And then the biggest struggle I see we call it the advisor in charge model, where they’re the constraint. Every business decision comes back to them. And as they go into what we call phase two, which is being a business owner that’s overseeing marketing, sales, ops, actual divisions that would be in a business, it’s just so counterintuitive, it’s hard to delegate, and they have to untrain themselves on ten years of what got them to that point of success. So, I’m curious on your Systems of Scale, any lessons or any frameworks out of that that might apply to an advisor in that situation that’s just trying to scale a team, just trying to get that second advisor on the team so the weight of the world isn’t on their shoulders?
Amy Porterfield: You know, hiring is one of the hardest things I’ve ever done in my business. And still today, 14 years in, it still proves to be the most challenging because we’re dealing with human beings and big hearts and lots of emotions and all of that. And so, in Systems in Scale, one of the things that we do talk a lot about is how to onboard a new employee. So, when you’re thinking about bringing someone on, you’ve got to write the job description, the interview, go through, they have to jump through all those hoops. But once they’re on the team, what does that experience look like? And what we found is if we really put a system together around a brand new employee and how they navigate within our business in the first 90 days, we found that they are so much more willing to jump in faster, do whatever it takes. They’re a team player, they’re excited. They’re supported. It makes a beautiful culture in the company.
So, one of the things we do is a 30, 60, 90 onboarding plan. And so, what that looks like is when they join on their first day, they’ve already gotten a gift in the mail. For us, we send flowers, but whatever that might look like, we tell them how excited we are for them to start and we send them a gift. So, now they already know we’re really excited for them. So, they start on the first day and they’re presented with their first 30 days in a Google doc. It’s really simple. This is what we expect of you in your first 30 days. And typically, it’s a lot of learning. Go through my digital courses, listen to these episodes of my podcast, check out our voice guide, whatever it might be. In my business, those things make sense, but they’re really just learning. I’m not expecting them to do some big things that first 30 days, which allows them just to settle in and get acclimated with the company. Then they’re presented with their next 30 days. That’s when they’re starting to get in more, start making decisions with that, start working with clients or whatever it might be, and then the final 90 days. And so, they know what’s expected of them. They feel supported. They’re not confused throughout the first 90 days and it’s a great onboarding experience. And that’s the reason I have people that have stayed in my business for years and years and years because those first 90 days were locked in. I think it makes a huge difference.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. And out of curiosity, how big is the team now? And I’m assuming just based on your description there, many of them are remote.
Amy Porterfield: Yes. We have 20 full-time employees all across the US. And so, there’s only one here in Nashville with me and everybody else is spread out across the US.
Brad Johnson: Is the one there in Nashville with you on purpose or did that just happen by sheer coincidence?
Amy Porterfield: It happened during COVID. I moved here and about a year later she’s like, “I’m out of here,” and she moved here as well. So, it’s definitely a coincidence. And the other thing is we work a four-day workweek. So, we work Monday through Thursday, 8 hours each day, and we take off Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. And the reason for that is you have to remember that I have a business where I teach people how to quit their job and start an online business. And so, now I’ve got 20 full-time employees, and I’m well aware that any time one of them can quit to go start their own business and I’ve got to be their biggest cheerleader. But until that happens, I don’t want my business to feel like a corporation. I came from corporate. Much of that I did not like. And so, we do things different in my business so that I could have a really great culture. And that was one of the big decisions we made two years ago. And best decision I ever made. I’ll never turn back.
Brad Johnson: I love that. And hey, and now you’re on the lake on Fridays instead of work, right?
Amy Porterfield: Yes, my husband loves that. So, yeah.
Brad Johnson: Win-win. Any other culture things you do? Because to me, that four-day workweek is absolutely a culture builder. Any other things that you found that have really brought the team together?
Amy Porterfield: So, speaking of that mindset part of it, you know, that was a big focus of our conversation together today. And I believe in personal growth. Obviously, I come from the Tony world. And so, if you want to get a life coach, some kind of coach for you personally, business-wise, whatever you need, we will pay for half of it. Now, I could afford to pay for all of it, and I really thought about that. However, I believe that when you pay, you pay attention, and skin in the game is important. So, we pay for half of their life coach. They could have it for three months, six months, a year, whatever they want.
Brad Johnson: Because I think life coach can be a very broad term these days. Are there certain requirements on what a life coach is defined as?
Amy Porterfield: So, I have a really good friend, Brooke Castillo of The Life Coach School. She actually certifies life coaches. I’ve been friends with her for a long time. I know the ins and outs of her business. So, we actually put a perimeter that you have to choose a life coach from The Life Coach School because they teach a certain model all about how to deal with big emotions, feelings, and drama. And they have this model and they use it for everything they do. And because I believe in the model and use it, I know it works so you have to choose a life coach school. There’s thousands to choose from so it’s never been an issue.
Brad Johnson: Awesome. Thank you for clarifying that. Any other assessment-type things? I know Michael’s a big proponent of Enneagram. We are as well here. We also use Kolbe but I’m curious on your take there.
Amy Porterfield: Yeah. We run our business through EOS, so we like subscribe to the EOS model and with that, we do Kolbe. That’s where we learn how to do Kolbe. We use Kolbe for hiring. Obviously, we know it’s not the end all, be all, and you can’t make decisions based only on an assessment legally. So, we’re well aware of that. But we use Enneagram, Kolbe, and also there’s another one. Off the top of my head, I can’t think about it, and we share it with the entire team.
Brad Johnson: StrengthsFinder?
Amy Porterfield: Yes. Thank you.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. I knew Michael was a proponent of that one, too.
Amy Porterfield: Yeah. I mean, definitely. I am literally everything that Michael tells me to do, I’m like, “You got it.” But we use these companywide and so… I have to tell you, it is pouring rain outside and my sweet husband is riding a lawnmower. I could see him out there thinking, “I think he needs to come inside,” and I could hear it. So, sorry. I was distracting you.
Brad Johnson: Well, fun fact, isn’t your husband a former Navy SEAL?
Amy Porterfield: He is a former Navy SEAL. Yep.
Brad Johnson: That’s easy for a Navy SEAL. I mean, mowing the lawn in the rain.
Amy Porterfield: He’s going to brag about how manly he is about staying, and he’s going to want to show me how wet he is. So, just wait. I’m going to have to be like, “Oh, babe, you’re so strong and manly.” So, I do know it could happen.
Brad Johnson: Hey, if he comes in, just have him walk on camera and then he can prove to the Internet.
Amy Porterfield: He would love it. He would love it. But yeah, I use all the StrengthsFinders, all the assessments. It’s starting to thunder so now my dog’s scared. And it’s important, like not only for hiring, but we use it to understand our employees. When I’m having a problem with an employee, I want to know, like, what is it? What is it about their Enneagram that I can learn from? Or how can I communicate with them better? I really do think all of that is important.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. Enneagram has been an absolute game-changer for us. I’m curious what’s your Enneagram number.
Amy Porterfield: I’m going to say, “What’s yours?” You go first.
Brad Johnson: Okay, let’s see. Let’s see if we can guess here.
Amy Porterfield: I think I can totally guess yours. I think you’re a 3.
Brad Johnson: Okay. 7.
Amy Porterfield: No way. Really?
Brad Johnson: Yeah. I’m a 7.
Amy Porterfield: I love meeting 7s. I think 7s are so much fun and so different than who I am. I am a 3 and so I actually used to be a 2. I don’t know how this happened but I was a 2 many, many, many years ago. I think Michael encouraged me to take it again a couple of years ago and it was clearly a 3. So, maybe you can change. I don’t know.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. Well, my business partner is a 3, so very familiar with the 3. Michael’s a 3. What’s interesting in our world, most financial advisors, 3s, 7s, 8s are very common.
Amy Porterfield: 3, 7, and 8s. Interesting. I could see 8s. My husband’s an 8. I could see that.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. Well, cool. Well, hey, it’s thundering. You’ve got a soaking wet husband, your dog’s running around. So, last question as we wrap here. I mean, this has been really fun. So, the show is Do Business Do Life. I don’t know that we could have had a better guest because you’re teaching people two weeks’ notice, how to quit their job, how to do business and do life. And so, I’m curious to hear Amy Porterfield:’s definition of what do business do life means to her.
Amy Porterfield: Freedom. One word, freedom. Working when you want, where you want, how you want, loving the people you want to love, spending time with the people you want to spend time with, and doing the things that really bring you joy. I really do believe that that is why I became an entrepreneur to have that freedom. But it wasn’t just to make a whole bunch of money or to work my life away. It was so that I could go to the lake on a Friday and spend that weekend with my husband. And that’s exactly my definition, freedom.
Brad Johnson: As the thunder rolls in the background.
Amy Porterfield: I know. Could you hear it? I didn’t know if you can hear it.
Brad Johnson: That was awesome. Yes, I can. I’m like, you might want to go check on your husband now inside. Make sure he’s okay.
Amy Porterfield: I know. I don’t hear the lawnmower. So, now I’m really scared.
Brad Johnson: Well, Amy, this has been fun. So nice to connect again. And I’ll have to see if we can work a leg trip into my next visit to Franklin.
Amy Porterfield: I hope so.
Brad Johnson: And if you ever make it to Kansas, please, you’re welcome anytime.
Amy Porterfield: Good to know. Thank you so much.
Brad Johnson: All right.
Amy Porterfield: This is a really fun conversation. I appreciate you having me on.
Brad Johnson: Absolutely, Amy. Until next time.
Amy Porterfield: Bye.