Brad Johnson: Welcome back to another episode of Do Business Do Life. I’ve got Dana and Tyler Dunkelberger here with us today. Welcome to the show, fellas.
Dana Dunkelberger: Thanks for having us, brother.
Brad Johnson: Speaking of brothers, I was trying to go back. I think this is the first episode with brothers. Now, we’ve got some brothers in the Triad community, but like Anthony did come on with his brother. So, congrats. You guys are breaking new ground here on the podcast.
Dana Dunkelberger: Love it. Yeah.
Brad Johnson: So, let’s…
Dana Dunkelberger: Later it’ll be absolutely terrible.
Brad Johnson: It’s going to be great.
Dana Dunkelberger: It’s going to be great.
Brad Johnson: We’ll keep them entertained. I don’t know. We’ll see if they learn anything.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: So, you guys have, basically, I’ve known you for a little over a year and you’re the type of guys like I feel like just immediately, like, you just love people. You’ve got an infectious energy. And so, I feel like it’s easy to feel like I’ve known you a lot longer than I have. But one of the things that I found really quickly with the two of you, like you’re brothers but you’re brothers that are almost like inseparable. You grew up. You have a crazy background that you were professional skiers at SeaWorld. And who was the first? Was Tyler or Dana the first one to jump in? Dana?
Dana Dunkelberger: Dana. Yeah, I was. Yup.
Brad Johnson: And then you recruited Tyler into the fray.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, that’s a funny story.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Basically. Yeah.
Brad Johnson: Well, we should probably kick that story off because then I want to figure out how you made your way into finance from that.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, that’s another funny story. So, we grew up in a tiny little town in Iowa. So, we’re from Dike, Iowa.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Shout out Dike, Iowa.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. The Dunkelbergers from Dike, Iowa. I’m pretty sure we’re the only ones.
Brad Johnson: What was the population of Dike, Iowa?
Dana Dunkelberger: 800.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah, it was like 842 when we left, but it’s really grown since then. I think it’s like 1,200 to 1,400 right now.
Brad Johnson: It’s really blown up. The word got out.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah. When we left, they’re like, “It’s a great place to live now.”
Dana Dunkelberger: So, down the road from us, we had it’s like Waterloo, Cedar Falls was the city. So, that’s where we went to the grocery store and all that stuff but Waterloo had a ski team. They’re called the Water Hawks. Still there, still a great team and…
Tyler Dunkelberger: Still thriving.
Dana Dunkelberger: Still thriving, yeah. They’re awesome. And we had a place the other direction on what’s called the Shell Rock River. So, that’s where we spent our weekends. Our family friends had a place there. And then mom and dad, when I was a baby, it was like a 1960s single wide trailer that we spent the summer in. It was…
Tyler Dunkelberger: Real nice.
Dana Dunkelberger: Absolutely amazing.
Brad Johnson: Real nice like nomads.
Dana Dunkelberger: I mean, just like, yeah, real nice.
Tyler Dunkelberger: We learned this. We started skiing when we were four. He was five and we always went and watched this water ski team at the cabin. And then when we were eight, nine, we joined the team and just put a lot of hours behind the boat.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. Just absolutely loved it. My dad was a great baseball player at high school, played in college, and then tried to go down the pro route. And then I came along. I pretty much, you know.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Ruin that.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. Ruin that for him. But I’ll never forget the conversation. We had to tell him. My mom was like, “Boys, you’re playing baseball. We’re all over the place doing this. You’re water skiing. We’re all over the place doing this. Every weekend at tournaments or shows or whatever,” and she’s like, “It’s too much. So, you got to pick one. You got to tell your dad.” And we’re like, “Geez, mom, I mean, I’m 11 and 12, and this is the conversation.” So, told dad like, “Hey, dad, we like playing baseball, but we really love skiing.” And I still remember the look on his face because he loves baseball and still does but he was like all in for us like, “Yeah, I get it.”
Tyler Dunkelberger: Best coach we ever had.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. So, he would read the back of Water Ski magazine. There was tutorials in there. He would buy the VHS coaching tapes and, yeah, he went all in for us. Our parents are like we won the lottery with parents. Our mom’s an absolute champion. And I mean, we lived in the Midas Mini.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah. Little motor home all over Iowa.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. And the Midwest and tournaments and ski shows. And so, that’s where it started and then SeaWorld sends at the time, it was a group called World Entertainment Services. They have a booth at Nationals. And so, every year we would go talk to them and be like they would have some skiers there or whatever. And so, they knew us well because we would be at that booth talking to them like, “We want to come ski at SeaWorld or Cypress Gardens.” They hired for Cypress Gardens as well at the time and other shows around the country. And so, last year they’re like, “Yep, we would love for you to come.” So, I got a contract there and I graduated high school. The next morning, I got up, got in my car, and drove to San Antonio and skied the summer at SeaWorld in the summer of ’99.
Brad Johnson: You were a ’99 graduate?
Dana Dunkelberger: Yep.
Brad Johnson: Me too. It’s a great year. A lot of great graduates that year.
Dana Dunkelberger: Great, great year. Yeah. They were excited to see me leave.
Tyler Dunkelberger: They’re excited to see your…
Brad Johnson: So, you literally it’s like got the high school diploma, loaden up cross-country, “I’m going to ski at SeaWorld.” That’s wild.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, literally the next morning, literally, woke up, got in my car, and drove to Texas. My parents are like, “What just happened?” You know, whirlwind.
Brad Johnson: So, you were like that was like at the top of your list right there. It’s like, “I’m going to go ski at SeaWorld.”
Tyler Dunkelberger: Always.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. Mom and dad would take us like to, in the winter, we’d drive to Florida. That was our family vacation, you know, load up a cooler with sandwiches and drinks and drive overnight, all day, all night to Orlando, go to SeaWorld. Then we drive down to watch a show at Cypress Gardens. And literally when we went to SeaWorld, we didn’t go to Shamu. We didn’t go to the Dolphins. We would sit in the front row.
Tyler Dunkelberger: And we would watch.
Dana Dunkelberger: Watch the ski show and talk to the skiers after until the next show started. Watch the next. We just sat there all day and mom and dad they’d be like…
Brad Johnson: You guys were obsessed.
Dana Dunkelberger: Obsessed.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. That’s cool.
Dana Dunkelberger: Still kind of are. Still love it.
Brad Johnson: Okay. So, then when did Tyler? How many years behind Dana were you, Tyler?
Tyler Dunkelberger: One year. I graduated one year later. I wasn’t going down the route of going to be at SeaWorld. It was always his thing. He’s always going to be at SeaWorld. Actually, I was planning on playing college football, not like D1 or anything. I think it was D6 or 7, but I was going to play football. And we came to visit Dana in July and we spent a week here, saw how his lifestyle was, got to water ski every day, had fun. And the week later I went back to the college where I was going to play ball and went to a football camp and we stayed in the dorms and I’m like, “I can do that or I can live in these dorms.” And I called the coach the next week and said, “I’m going to SeaWorld.” So, I played my senior year. And then again, same thing. Two days after I graduated high school, I moved to sunny San Antonio, Texas and here we are.
Brad Johnson: Wow. Okay. So, selfishly, I could listen to your SeaWorld stories for hours because I’m probably at least an hour in from all the random get-togethers. So, I know it took you to Australia. Was it Japan? Where in Asia did you guys ski?
Tyler Dunkelberger: Osaka, Japan.
Dana Dunkelberger: Japan. Yep.
Brad Johnson: Japan. Any other destinations besides San Antonio and like Australia and Japan?
Dana Dunkelberger: France and Russia.
Tyler Dunkelberger: He skied in Orlando for a summer.
Dana Dunkelberger: Orlando. Yeah. I skied at SeaWorld, Orlando.
Brad Johnson: Wow. So, they had properties all over those places. I didn’t realize that.
Tyler Dunkelberger: They weren’t all SeaWorld.
Dana Dunkelberger: No. Yeah. The SeaWorlds we skied at were here and Orlando. And actually, in Australia where I skied is called SeaWorld, different company. It’s a really interesting, fun place to ski because you walk into the park and you’re in ski stadium and like the skiers are like, at the time, were like the biggest part of that park. That show had been there since, I want to say the late 50s, early 60s. It’s a really, really cool place to ski. And it’s rare that Americans get to go there.
Tyler Dunkelberger: After that, it led to we worked at Universal Studios in Osaka, Japan and we did the Waterworld stunt show. So, have you seen Waterworld with Kevin Costner?
Brad Johnson: Yeah.
Tyler Dunkelberger: We did a stunt show based on that. And that was, I mean, a pretty unbeatable gig.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. And then we get hired to do like an exhibition here and there, and that’s what took me to Europe and that was pretty awesome.
Brad Johnson: Well, we should probably get to your journey in finance. But before we do, final question on the ski stuff. What was the hardest trick that you had to learn that you’ve successfully pulled off?
Dana Dunkelberger: Oh, man. We were really into going fast, high, and far, upside down. So, there’s a good baker’s dozen concussions between, well, each.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Each. I would say probably like one ski gainer, one ski front flip, and then like wakeboarding would be some of the mobes, whirlybirds, the mobes, barefooting, front to backs, back to fronts. Yeah, I would say those were the more challenging things that we did.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. We would, I mean, at SeaWorld, we skied in shows but then we wore those boats out between him and I and a couple other buddies. Like, we skied all day, every day. Like, even between shows, we just loved it. It was just our life. Like, we would literally get out of SeaWorld at the end of the day and we’d drive to the lake and ski until dark usually, and then stay on the boat until those… We’ll skip those stories but it’s probably good that we end here.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah. This had to make it to the public somehow.
Brad Johnson: I’m sure you were very tame and didn’t have any fun is the end of that story.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Well said.
Brad Johnson: Well, so how did you flip from a professional skier that’s very much a full time gig, I’m sure, to finance? How did you get into the world of finance?
Dana Dunkelberger: So, our dad was career Farm Bureau in Iowa. He was kind of a big deal there.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah. He’s still a big deal. So, he always wanted to…
Brad Johnson: He probably had a large market share of Dike, Iowa, didn’t he?
Dana Dunkelberger: The whole thing, brother. Grundy County.
Brad Johnson: Hundred percent market share.
Dana Dunkelberger: There you go.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah. So, he always wanted us to move back. And, obviously, mom wanted us to move back, and dad wanted us to take over his business. And loved what dad did. Didn’t necessarily love the snow. So, we had some, well, really, Dana got into it first. He had an opportunity to start working with an advisor in New Braunfels right up the road. And that’s where it started.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. And he was a skier, one of our closest friends still to this day. He was in my wedding and got us in. Like, I blew my knee out in Orlando. Tyler flew in, we packed all my stuff, and I came back to San Antonio to do rehab through the winter. And my plan was to go back to skiing full time, rehab my knee. Like, I just thought I’d always be in that business and work for a boat company or whatever that look like. But he’s like, “Hey, come and just check this out. I think you’d be a good person to come work and help me build my business. And I want to open offices.” And he was looking to go the agency route and all that stuff. And so, I did that and opened…
Tyler Dunkelberger: He basically managed a bunch of advisors like ourselves. You managed like 18 different offices.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. So, opened a bunch of offices, set them up, hired people.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Ran all the marketing.
Dana Dunkelberger: Ran all the, yup.
Brad Johnson: So, 18, you leave high school, you go straight into skiing. What age was this where this happened?
Dana Dunkelberger: That would have been 27, 28.
Brad Johnson: Okay. So, you’re nine, ten years out.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: And you kind of get recruited by a guy. So, this guy skied at SeaWorld and he was kind of getting older and then kind of dabbling in this. And then it became his exit out of skiing it sounds like.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. So, like my first year, second year, he went I think to like Mutual of Omaha or something like that. I can’t remember exactly where. I think it was Mutual of Omaha and got his feet wet there and then got his licenses and then went independent and started doing seminars and the whole thing we do. And then he just absolutely exploded. He was doing I remember my first year working with him was 2008, and he did 30 million by himself. And that was the time where that 2007-2008.
Brad Johnson: That didn’t happen.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, it was pretty wild.
Brad Johnson: Well, I got into the business in ’07, and I think that’s where, it’s funny, like we went back when we first met, and like a lot of the guys that you guys grew up in the business with, I had actually grown up in the business with my prior life so it was kind of like, “Wow, what a small world.” So, you guys jump in and then Tyler kind of same thing, like Dana is like, “Hey, the water is warm. Come join me over here”?
Tyler Dunkelberger: I’ve got the best brother in the world. Everything that he does is cool and I just get to follow in his footsteps. So, he left the managing the offices and then opened up his own office, still under the same umbrella. And then I just came in and took over his gig. And I did that for a year and a half. And then he was rocking and rolling and I left that company and he started his own and he started Reliance how many years ago?
Dana Dunkelberger: 2011, I think that was.
Tyler Dunkelberger: And I probably joined him two years later.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. He came in like early 2013 and then, yeah. It was scary, but a lot, you know, back to the days of skiing together like just a lot of fun and a lot of finger crossing. Well, we didn’t really think through it all that much, to be honest.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Honestly, that’s the beauty of Dana Dunkelberger is he has no fear. It’s like when he moved to Texas. He’s like, “That’s what I’m doing. I’m going. I’m not even thinking about it.” And he kind of run this business the same way.
Brad Johnson: That is pretty wild at the age of 18 like the day after you graduate, because I played college ball and I remember my dad dropping me off at the college dorm after summer was over right after graduation.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: And that’s scary. So, the fact that you’re just like, “I’m driving across the country by myself and just going to do this thing,” there is a level of just like…
Tyler Dunkelberger: He would have done it at 16 if he could have.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: Yeah.
Dana Dunkelberger: School and I didn’t get along so well.
Brad Johnson: Well, I was just listening to a podcast the other day and it talked about sometimes being naive is a good thing when you get into something. And so, you start your business.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Good job.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. So, hey, I can tell you, starting Triad, it was good. Shawn and I were a bit naive because we didn’t really know what we were getting ourselves into in the early days, but. So, I’m going to give like we did a quick rundown of your kind of journey of your inflection points. I’m going to give a rundown because I think it’ll be helpful for the listeners or the watchers. So, 2013-ish, you start Reliance primarily insurance-focused, which was very much the world I grew up in, annuities, retirees. So, 12 million, 2013. 2014, 25 mil and that’s probably the year where Tyler really kind of joined the fray, right, and like really started bumping the production. 2018, 37 mil.
And then COVID hits in 2020. Back because a lot of your business was driven by seminars and obviously nobody was doing a lot of those in 2020 so back to 22 mil. And then you kind of hit this plateau. 2021, 2022, 2023 you’re bumping between 30, 32, 35 mil and just kind of like tapping the ceiling of couldn’t quite bust through. You joined Triad right at the end of 2023. 2024 first full year and as we record this, it’s November 8th of 2024. And you guys are pacing for somewhere between 85 to 90 million by year end. Did I get that right as far as the pace?
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yes, sir. Sounds about right.
Brad Johnson: So, if I’m listening in, obviously, some pretty cool growth. You get the thing off the ground, you figure out marketing, and you’re clipping those. Those are big numbers, you know, regardless of my business model. 30, 32, 35 million with a pretty small team, a team of four or five, six I’m sure along the way.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah. Six total.
Brad Johnson: I’m probably. What’s that?
Tyler Dunkelberger: Six total, including Dana and I.
Brad Johnson: Six total. What were the learnings on the way up? And then obviously, if I’m listening in, I’m like, okay, 2023 to 2024, there’s a big breakthrough where you went from kind of this ceiling to somewhere ending the year double to triple where your prior year was. So, what were the learnings before this big breakthrough last year? Like, what were the inflection points in that 2013 to 2023 time period?
Tyler Dunkelberger: I think the whole goal during that time period was be lean and mean, right? It was don’t hire a whole bunch of people, don’t have a huge overhead, and do as many seminars as you can possibly do. Yeah, we did a lot of them.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. And that’s, I mean, our former life before Triad was great. We have a great experience there and blessed to be in that situation.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Learned a ton.
Dana Dunkelberger: Learned a lot. But the idea was, like Tyler said, you get somebody that helps transfer a person, you get a person at the front desk, and a seminar person.
Tyler Dunkelberger: And a service person.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. And that’s it. And so, then that’s the business model. And you just stand on the gas and like, you know, one of the things that I was good at is standing on the gas, but I broke stuff. And then Sabrina, who’s one of the biggest blessings in our lives…
Tyler Dunkelberger: She’s been with us since day one.
Brad Johnson: Really? I didn’t know. So, all the way back to 2013?
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: Was this a family friend or you just got super lucky and she…
Dana Dunkelberger: She works at the other place you’re at.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah. So, before I left and joined with him, when I was leaving, we were kind of shutting down her department. And I’m like, “Dana, you got to hire her. She’s super helpful. She’s smart.” And at that time, I didn’t even know how old she was. And she was like, she came in to interview and she’s like, “Well, I just finished school.” Just graduated. Just graduated. And we thought college. We were wrong. High school. Yeah. And she was…
Brad Johnson: Wow.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah, wild.
Brad Johnson: That is wild.
Tyler Dunkelberger: First four years she worked with us, she was going through college, finished college. And, yeah, she’s just been a huge part of the growth and the success.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. She’s family. I mean, she’s awesome.
Brad Johnson: Hey, she was there while you were standing on the gas breaking things, and she didn’t leave.
Dana Dunkelberger: She was the one fixing. Yeah.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah, she was cleaning everything up.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. And she’s amazing. Like, her bandwidth is pretty wild. She can handle a lot because she wore every hat all at the same time.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah.
Dana Dunkelberger: Like, she would do seminars with me.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Move Money. Answer phones. Customer service. All of it.
Dana Dunkelberger: And we were doing like I did 20 million. I remember the first time I did 20 million and that was based… Man, that was early. I can’t even remember, but it was wild looking back on how much we were writing and just doing it together. And you don’t think about it at that time. And the good news is she didn’t know any better, and I didn’t either. So, we were just like, “This is how we do it.”
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah. There’s that naive part.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: Yeah.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: What was the most? In that model, what was the most seminars each of you did in a year? Do you remember?
Dana Dunkelberger: I did 103 nights, one year.
Tyler Dunkelberger: I’d say I maxed out probably 60 or 70.
Dana Dunkelberger: I think three years in a row we did over 100 nights but like me and her, me and Sabrina. And then Tyler was just starting to get into it and start doing his own seminars as well. But like we were just like, when I say stand on the gas and break stuff, that’s what it was.
Tyler Dunkelberger: A lot of times three nights a week.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. Some, you know, four seminars in a week, a lot of times as well, so.
Brad Johnson: Well, let’s talk to speaking of break stuff and what I love about you guys, the more I’ve gotten to know you, like just you have a blast. You don’t take yourself too seriously. But you’re also both of you married with kids, good family man who’s exactly who I want to surround myself with. I’m curious when you’re grinding at that level, because, by the way, that was me in my early days, too. It was just in a different model where we were making 100 dials a day, flying all over the country, trying to recruit people, flying people in. Did you have any we call it like the red line where you’re hitting max out, burn out? Did you have any inflection points where it was like, “Man, business is kind of growing. We’re doing some cool stuff over here, but I’m sacrificing some of the other side”?
Dana Dunkelberger: The other side?
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: At what time period did that start to become a thing like when were you guys getting married, having kids, all of that?
Tyler Dunkelberger: I mean, my daughter was born in 2010, so basically, she was a year old when I started with Dana. Maybe two. And you got…
Dana Dunkelberger: I got married in 2011. Hayden was born, my oldest. She was born in 2012. And then Reese in 2014. And you know, when they’re real little, when their personalities start coming out, that’s when you’re like, I kind of remember it’s just hurting my heart some nights to be doing seminars. But then know like I got to do this because I got family and team and stuff to pay and people to pay and support and all that stuff. And also, we’re all similar that the personality of I’m building something and I’m doing something great.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Dana’s favorite words are, “It’s go time.” So, every time we go, like, we’ll go to a Triad event or we’ll go do something, he’ll come back, look me in the eyes, and he’s like, “It’s go time, man. Let’s go.” And so, that’ll never end. I mean, I don’t think we’ll ever get to a point where he doesn’t want to stand on the gas. But I think like 2023 was probably where we both were burnt out.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. I remember like summer like May of 2023 summer hit and I’m just like, “I’m checking out.” I’m spending like we’re blessed to have a lake house and I just said, “I’m going to spend June at the lake house and don’t call me.”
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah. But we also had built, like we built a big business, right? We have a lot of clients and we had a small staff taking care of those clients and the phone. I mean, I looked at the phone calls the other day and our phone rings 120 times a day. And so, at that time it wasn’t much less. And so, we’re answering the phones all day long and everybody’s just getting tasked out. It’s like, “All right. Well, I got to get this paperwork.” We didn’t have the processes in place. And because we didn’t have the people to do it, we didn’t have the bandwidth to be able to take care of all the clients that we had. So, we were both pretty smoked by the time summer was over.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. And it wasn’t fair to our team either, who is amazing, like we love them to death. That’s really where things change. I guess we’ll get into that a little bit. But, yeah, it wasn’t fair to our team at the time, but like my brain turns on at 5:30 in the morning and shuts off at about 11:00 at night. And you want to take care of your clients. You want to be the best for them. You want to be the best for your family. You want to be the best for your team. And then that, you know, you don’t realize it but three, four, five years goes by and that starts to weigh on you. And you realize like I’ve become my own worst enemy.
Tyler Dunkelberger: By the time we look back at it, we’re like, “Well, we’re not doing a good job for our clients. We’re not doing a good job for our team. We’re not doing a good job for our family. And we’re not enjoying this anymore.”
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. And you’re not happy with yourself and that’s really where it all…
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah. We knew we had to make some changes.
Dana Dunkelberger: In a bit of a dark place at that time, you know, summer of 2023, trying to figure out how do we get through this and make it better and quite frankly, had no clue.
Brad Johnson: I appreciate the honesty in that, guys. I was having a conversation the other day and any entrepreneur that you have a conversation with that’s honest and real and doesn’t have a massive ego will tell you they’ve had a season of that somewhere along the journey. And I think the cool thing is you guys were aware enough to realize you were in that and you wanted to do something to change it. And if you guys are cool with sharing the story because part of it, as I was listening to you explain that,
I remember the podcast I did with Anthony Pellegrino, who’s obviously a friend of you guys now. He was one of my early friends in this business and he had just crushed it on the business front and gotten an award for walking across a stage, being recognized as one of the top guys in his organization. And then literally walked off stage, splashed water in his face because he was exhausted and was like, “I will never do that to myself again.” And so, I think sometimes you have to hit that breaking point before you’re like, “I have to change. There’s got to be another way.”
And I believe what’s crazy is Anthony kind of helped give you guys a little nudge because you had like a little mastermind group that one of the guys knew Anthony and like Anthony was on a call and then there was kind of this breakthrough moment. Would you guys mind sharing just like your side of that?
Dana Dunkelberger: Absolutely. So, yeah, were you there at the time? Yeah. So, we flew out and there is a group of us that were just, you know.
Tyler Dunkelberger: All the same point. We’re all tired.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. Loved our families, loved our team, and our clients and like, “Hey, we’re not doing a good job here on a number of fronts,” which is never a good feeling. So, we had kind of planned this training together and how we’re going to work through this and find our way together. Incredible friends, you know, lifelong friends for sure.
Brad Johnson: Yeah.
Dana Dunkelberger: And so, and grateful.
Brad Johnson: All in the business, for context, all the guys in the business, you were like kind of a mastermind on the business front but you’re also like did a lot of life together too. Did like family trips and all that stuff.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yes, yes, yes. Yeah.
Dana Dunkelberger: Families do everything together to go in the kitchen, all that wonderful thing. So, anyways, we’re all there together trying to find our way. And one of the boys is like and we all knew who Anthony was. Obviously, in our industries, he’s a great deal. We were just at his office yesterday, actually. Great dude, wonderful person like super helpful, but just wants to help others be great and do great big things. So, he’s like, “I’ll just call him, see if he will take the time to talk to us.” And like, it was probably a two-hour conversation.
Brad Johnson: And out of the blue. It wasn’t scheduled.
Dana Dunkelberger: Not really, no. It was a text message, “You got time?” And you know how Anthony is, right? Trying to schedule something with him and…
Brad Johnson: Well, I’m just picturing it right now. He’s on FaceTime. He’s walking around in a ball cap and be like, “What is this guy?” Yes. I got you.
Dana Dunkelberger: 100%.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Takes four trips in his car. Still the same phone call.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, it was that.
Brad Johnson: Anthony, we love you if you’re listening.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Love you, Anthony.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yes.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Appreciate your time.
Dana Dunkelberger: Appreciate you, brother. And we just went through the gamut of all the things like all of us were talking together. It was like he was in the room with us but we’re talking together. We’re talking about what’s painful, where are we going? And the breakthrough there was he was like, I haven’t seen a client in I think at the time, two and a half years or something, two years, whatever it was at the time. And he…
Tyler Dunkelberger: Kind of broke down what he did and how they’re doing it.
Dana Dunkelberger: He’s like, “I wasn’t in love with it anymore, which wasn’t fair to my clients, wasn’t fair to my…” Like, the same like almost identical to the things that we were feeling and struggling with. And so, I had that conversation with him, kind of looked around the room at each other and we’re like, “Uh-oh, here we go.” And so, fought through it and tried to do some things together at the time. And it just we didn’t have the bandwidth nor the direction, the track to run on. And so, that’s where he’s like, “You got to call Triad. You got to…” So, we called.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Had a call with Jordan.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. Had a call with Jordan.
Brad Johnson: Was that your first call? Was it Jordan?
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: Nice.
Dana Dunkelberger: Absolute. He is the dude. Love that guy. I mean, we feel the same way about almost everybody at Triad. Just amazing. But everybody is so unique and everybody there is individuals but that, like, it’s wild how amazing a group and wonderful people you all are. So, talked to Jordan. And then talked to Jordan like every day for like a month. And he was just helping us understand and work through some things and get down the right path. Schedule the meeting, went to Anthony’s office, met with Shawn and a couple other, you know, Nico, I guess me, Nico, and Devin where all other Triad members now, so.
Brad Johnson: Shout out Devin. Shout out Nico. What’s up, guys?
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yes, love you boys.
Dana Dunkelberger: And so, yeah, I went and had a meeting in Anthony’s office and when you walk through his office, it’s like it’s…
Tyler Dunkelberger: Awesome.
Dana Dunkelberger: Absolutely ridiculously amazing. And you see it just working. You see everybody there is happy and working.
Tyler Dunkelberger: We see the machine.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yep. And it’s going and it’s hard not to unsee that once you’ve seen it. Let’s just put it that way.
Brad Johnson: That’s a good way of putting it. I’ve always found that in life that if you’ve got that drive, once again humble, the saying we say all the time is, “When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.” So, you are looking for an answer. You were seeking something and you took the effort to go out. But then you’re like, “Oh, dang, I can’t unsee that now.” So, was there any sort of resistance or fighting? Because obviously you were great members of the organization you were with. I mean, you guys were kind of the golden boys there. And so, was there any of that resistance? Because I see that a lot. I had it before I left to start Triad. I was taking care very well where I was at, I learned a lot, but I knew I just had this thing where it was calling to me. I was like, I know there’s more. How did you guys process that? Was that really tough?
Tyler Dunkelberger: I know exactly what you just said. So, I mean, loved everybody there. I don’t know about Golden Boys, but we had a lot of great friends. I still have a lot of great friends there. And when you have those relationships, it’s hard to leave. Very, very hard.
Dana Dunkelberger: It was one of the, like looking back, emotionally struggled with it greatly. I was exhausted emotionally thinking about it.
Tyler Dunkelberger: For sure. But the same thing that you said, it’s like it’s, all right, what we’re doing right now is not going to work. We don’t want to do it for another day, let alone another month or another year. And so, we’ve got to change something. And then like our group of buddies that we keep talking about, they had already made the decision, right? And Triad gives great leadership, great guidance, shows us how to build the business the right way. And after seeing and listening to them, he made the decision and it’s been all uphill from here.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. It’s been amazing and wonderful. And it’s just, you know, you got to level up at times in your life and that’s never going to be an easy decision, but definitely the right one where we feel extremely blessed. We’re spending so much more time with our families like love to be in the office again, love to be around our team. Like, our team is just proud. I can’t even – like getting a little emotional just thinking about like our team is people I love being around and I don’t, you know.
Tyler Dunkelberger: He doesn’t love a lot of people.
Dana Dunkelberger: I struggle with that sometimes. I mean, your people are your…
Brad Johnson: I appreciate the honesty.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, yeah.
Brad Johnson: Hey, I find the older I get, the more you curate the people that you do choose to spend time with.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. 100%. So, like everyone in this office, I can only honestly say I love them as people. Like, I would hang out with them. Actually, when we go and hang out outside the office, it’s amazing. Just a fun group of awesome people to be around.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Talk as much trash as we.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, we just see…
Brad Johnson: I bet some trash is talked. I could see that.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, yeah. And then you watch them here as a team work together and love each other and…
Tyler Dunkelberger: Work hard for each other.
Dana Dunkelberger: And none of that happens without Sabrina.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: Yeah.
Dana Dunkelberger: So, it’s like we are having a blast right now.
Tyler Dunkelberger: I think the one thing that makes it fun again is we have bandwidth back. Like, in the past, we weren’t able to do anything and you’re constantly working in the business and you have no opportunity to work on the business. And like seeing the way that Triad is organized and seeing all the other offices, how they’re organized, it’s like, “All right. Well, we need that person here,” because if we have that person here, then that opens these people up to be able to do all of the things we’ve been promised in our clients that we’re going to do for them. And so, then we’ve been able to expand on that. And there’s 15 people here now.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. We’re running into a real estate problem.
Brad Johnson: Which is awesome. I was just talking through that with Scale Summit was just not that long ago, about a month ago. And Scale Summit for those listening in that aren’t familiar, that’s our team-based training for Triad members. And as much as we want to keep Triad’s community intimate from the founder perspective, we really try, Jordan, you mentioned him earlier, calling on that team to try to curate not just on production, but growth minded, doing business with people you want to do life with. And it’s really like curating a very intimate community of top performers that will share best practices. Anthony, prime example, right?
And then on the flip side of that, we were talking about the other day in the conference room and were like, if we actually deliver on what we’re trying to do, which is scaling businesses bigger than just the founder where everything’s on your shoulders, Scale Summit someday should be an arrowhead because we’re helping you all grow your teams and scale and create opportunity in your communities and obviously, overserve your clients at a higher level while you continue to grow and build a business. And so, I’m thinking, like, maybe that’s a good vision for us is like some day, scale some of it will be an arrowhead just because you all have built such amazing businesses that have continued to grow and scale and serve at a higher level. And so, I think it’s an interesting way to look at it.
And that kind of leads me back to that jump. 2023, you’re in that 30 to 35 million range. This year, pacing for 85 to 90. Let’s just call it a triple because I believe in you guys. You’re going to hit the triple, so from 30 to 90. Your team when we met you were six. Sabrina, you mentioned. Tyler, you said, so six, and now you’re at 15. I think 16 is on the way.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Hopefully, Tuesday, yeah.
Brad Johnson: Okay, cool. And you were the only two advisors doing everything advisor related and you said Sabrina, I think Tyler or Dana, I don’t remember. You were saying like she was like a utility player, like she was doing everything. So, what was Sabrina when you were at six, what was she doing at that stage of the business?
Tyler Dunkelberger: Managing the office, moving money.
Brad Johnson: Was she your sole new business person?
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah.
Brad Johnson: So, she was the new business division. She was director of ops division. Was she doing anything on the marketing side?
Dana Dunkelberger: That’s Cynthia. So, Cynthia was helping our seminars. Like when we talked about marketing before, that was only one thing.
Tyler Dunkelberger: It was more of an event planning. We did seminars.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yep. Which Cynthia is still there and we’re adding to her team as well.
Brad Johnson: So, Sabrina is already wearing two hats. And then was she doing, I mean, hiring? Was she doing that? So, she was HR. Was she personnel?
Tyler Dunkelberger: She was HR.
Brad Johnson: Well, okay, so case in point, she was wearing a lot of hats. And I remember when you all came in to Triad HQ, our little side conference room, and it was you two and it was Sabrina were in there. And it was cool, and I was like, “Dang, how are they doing that much business with that smaller team?” So, give me the shift in philosophy that’s happened. I think, Tyler, you said we realized it was like a talent acquisition game or something like that. You talked about adding talent, but what shifted in you’d operated with a super small team of four, five, six to now, you’re 10 more team members a year later?
Tyler Dunkelberger: Well, I mean, the shift was seeing, I mean, y’all have laid out the road for us to run on. It’s like if you want to be efficient here, you have to build this team in order to do that. And so, we’ve just taken, I mean, every time we go to an event, we learn something else. And hey, we have to have that person. Again, it comes back to if we want to do what we say we’re going to do for our clients, we need the bandwidth to be able to do it, right? We can all pretend that we have the bandwidth ourselves to try and take it all on and we don’t.
And so, in order for us to not fall on our face, in order for us to take care of people, through your eyes’ direction, we’ve added the right people at the right time. I think it’s terrifying sometimes when Sabrina’s hiring more people than you can count, but it’s all been wonderful. She’s brought on great people. And it’s helped us expand. It’s helped us triple our production because we have the bandwidth to do it.
Dana Dunkelberger: And you watch the right people come into the fold and they care as much about the clients as you do. And then you realize, wow, they do a much better job taking care of them than I was doing because you can’t do it. You can’t run this type of business the right way at that level of production efficiently and keep all your promises. I mean, we kind of did it for eight years and then you realize, like, am I doing a great job for the clients? Am I doing what they deserve? They’re trusting us with their money, their retirement, their future, they deserve a lot.
So, when you put the right people in place to go take care of each aspect of that. And there’s an overall team, but then there’s teams inside the team, right, that go and take care of different aspects of the business. Service, you’ve got annual reviews and you’ve got advisors, bringing in new clients and adding them to our Reliance family. So, if it’s not done well when you don’t have the team to do it, it’s just impossible. So, those first couple of hires– go ahead, sorry.
Brad Johnson: Well, you said something earlier. I just want to hit on that kind of relates to that. I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but you said you were kind of hitting this burnout in 2022, 2023, somewhere in there. And you said you escaped. I think you used the words escaped to the lake house in June. You’re like, I’m out for a month. And what I found in many financial services firms, it’s kind of this, it’s like I go in and then I retreat, and I go in and I retreat, and it’s like this. It’s this tug of war between business and life to where it’s like, man, I’m tapping out. Okay. Don’t call me. I’m going to the lake house. But what happens on the other side of that while you’re at the lake house is the business is like, like you said, you weren’t serving the clients at the level they needed to be served, but you were just like, there wasn’t any more of you left to give. Do you feel like that was kind of the dance you were playing in a lot of those years?
Dana Dunkelberger: Absolutely. It’s not fair to your team. It’s not fair to your clients. It’s not fair to your family. It’s like, the way I was talking to Tyler about it is like I’m trying to be everybody’s everything, and I’m not there for any of it.
Brad Johnson: And that’s a very defeated place to be. I’ve been there. Early days at Triad, I was like, man, there’s not enough of me to go around.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, and I don’t think your family or your team, like I was so disappointed in myself that it’s just not a good place to be. Then that level up has to happen or you’re going the other direction quickly. So, that’s where the level up happened, that’s where Triad came in. And then the first couple of hires were scary. And then after that, I’m like, well, this is great.
Brad Johnson: Where’s this been my whole life?
Dana Dunkelberger: These are wonderful people that I like being around. And oh, by the way, our clients are happier. We’re fulfilling promises, we’re answering promises, checking off the boxes, but doing it in a big way. And then all of a sudden, we’ve got a team of 15 and client noticed, like, don’t think your clients don’t notice.
Brad Johnson: I was going to ask you that because with that, I mean, one year, your team has more than tripled. What are your clients saying? What’s going on here?
Dana Dunkelberger: So, I was worried like, okay, man, these clients, I come in and I make them a client, they do business with me. I do all the annual reviews, I do all the service. Like, I get all the, you know, you want to do a withdrawal, I’m in that appointment doing that.
Tyler Dunkelberger: That’s just very change.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, all those things, you’re in all those appointments because you feel like you have to be and then you realize like, oh, well, they need a withdrawal. And you watch Celeste and Bri come in, and the clients are pumped because they’ve been talking to Celeste and Bri, and they’re like, “They took great care of me.”
Tyler Dunkelberger: Well, and it happens fast.
Brad Johnson: See, Dana, we don’t need you, buddy.
Tyler Dunkelberger: It happens faster. We don’t mess up the paperwork. Everybody’s happy.
Dana Dunkelberger: And then, across the board, you’ve got Laura sits in Tyler’s meetings now and Allison sits in mine. And they’re just incredibly wonderful people. And you watch the client, the clients would almost rather hang out with them. And that’s okay.
Tyler Dunkelberger: A good judge of character.
Dana Dunkelberger: So, like, I could go like Grace does all of our annual reviews now. And she has owned it and taken it, and the clients love her. And like, talk about level-up, she worked at Chase Private Client, but then she worked at an elder law firm that focused on clients with dementia, or helping the families that have clients with dementia. So, Grace knows all the ins and outs. And we’ve had clients in that scenario, too, in the last couple of months that Grace has come in and cleaned up their whole scenario and just watching her make it and the clients are so– I could go on and on. Anthony is one of our new advisors in the last, what, how long has he been with us?
Tyler Dunkelberger: Six months.
Dana Dunkelberger: Six months, maybe. Like, you watch, like, the clients realize that, oh, they’ve brought in these people to help in a number of ways. And at first, you’ll have a client here that’s like, oh, I have to meet with Dana or I have to meet with Tyler. And then we tell them, okay, when you need these things, this is who you’re going to meet with. Now, moving forward, you explain why, and the clients are pumped. They’re like, oh, like, if you need this done, it’s getting done today because you’re going to the right person to get it done today. Not hey, I got to schedule an appointment in a week and a half because that’s the only open spot on Dana or Tyler’s calendar and I can get my withdrawal in a week and a half, whatever.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. More freedom for you. More growth opportunities for your team and better service for your clients. It’s like, win across the board.
Dana Dunkelberger: It’s pretty simple when you say it like that, right? Why don’t we…
Brad Johnson: Just came up with it on the fly.
Dana Dunkelberger: But like, massive shout-out to our team, like, love them all. Every one of them, oh, I mean. And then you look at planning like Lexi looked at Bianca and Kathryn, like, go on and on and on. And then it allows Sabrina to do what she’s great at. Cynthia in the same boat. You find that, hey, we didn’t have this. This person is right for our team and we love them. They’re just in the wrong spot in our business. So, you find that spot and you watch them thrive, and it’s just a joy to see. And like I said, I’m excited and it’s a fun place to be again. Like, it’s the work hard, play hard, it’s the DBDL. I mean, it’s a lot of fun right now.
Brad Johnson: I love to hear that. You said something earlier, and our mutual friend Tom Jacobs, he did an episode quite a ways back, but he called it the no-appointments-alone rule. And so, you were talking about your prior life, you were everything. You were the sales advisor, the service advisor, the planning advisor, the reviews, the withdrawals, all of that. And so, how tough was that to shift to, okay, now, typically, it’s the service advisor that’s sitting and riding shotgun, right? Was that a pretty easy switch just because you saw the model? Was there any trust involved in that? But I know it was a game changer for Tom.
Dana Dunkelberger: We actually talked to Tom about it. This was almost a year ago now. And he told us about that. And I’m like, “Well, that’s a no-brainer.” And that’s our rule now.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Well, we hired good people. And so, the trust came quick. I mean, it is one of those things when you sit in a meeting because we’ve been solo for the last 10 years. And so, when someone sits in there, it’s a little bit different, but I mean, they’re amazing. So, they build that trust immediately. And it just takes so much off your plate. Like, we have a meeting after the meeting and we unpacked, hey, here’s the action items that we have to knock off. So, they go take care of those. We go take care of what we need to do. And then we’re open. We have time. We can actually sit down and plan some other things. And again, it gives us the opportunity to actually start working on the business.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, like Allison, I don’t even remember appointments without having her in. Like, when she’s not in my appointment, like, hey, Allison, whatever that looks like, it’s rare, but I’ll say occasionally, like, “No, I got this one. I can take care of this client.” And she’s like, “No. No, you’re not.”
Brad Johnson: Yeah, the team prefers you don’t, Dana.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, and I’m like…
Brad Johnson: Don’t mess this. Don’t mess up what’s good here. I find like the– I’m trying to think of the best analogy to maybe explain this to somebody that hasn’t done it before, an advisor that’s listening in. I feel like sales, obviously, sales to me is a transfer of trust. I think some people think that’s a bad word. I’m like, no, you’re just there to serve people, right? So, sales and then services want fulfilling the promises you make on the plans that you build. And then planning is actually building the plans.
I feel like that service advisor sitting in the appointments with you, that’s air traffic control between sales advisor and planning advisor and just making sure all the boxes are checked. And to your point, like they’re the ones going in fulfilling the promises that come out of the appointments. Is that the best, like, is there another way that you guys would describe that, just what it’s done for you?
Dana Dunkelberger: No, that’s exactly right. Like, they’re going to direct traffic. It’s going to be in Tyler’s office. Laura’s going to direct that traffic to Lexi who’s going to build the plan. She’s amazing. We’re blessed to have her. Allison’s in mine, and she’s going to do that or direct that traffic to bring in Celeste if they need a withdrawal or to add money or change a beneficiary or whatever. So, we can’t drop the ball.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah. I mean, four ears are better than two. And so, they’re picking up stuff that we don’t pick up on there. And they’re taking notes throughout the meeting so that when the meeting is over, you can go back through and remember some of the stuff that you probably watched over in the beginning of the meeting.
Yeah. And then they’re passing that on to the client, recapping everything and say, hey, this is what we promised you.
Brad Johnson: The recap emails are a game changer.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Oh, brother, it’s accountability on our side. It gives us our action item.
Dana Dunkelberger: Well, it’s also accountability on the client side. Like, we can fulfill this promise if you get us these last couple of things. And basically, what we explain to the client is, hey, we’re going to come 80%. We just need 20% from you. And we will take it from there. The 80/20 rule, right?
Brad Johnson: I like that framing. That’s cool.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. And when you explain that to a client and they see how serious you are and how much you want to help them and like, hey, here’s your whole, this is what we need to get your plan done and move forward, they appreciate it where we can go allow our team to be successful. And like Tyler said, then it opens up bandwidth and then growth and like I said earlier, it’s just fun, man. It’s fun to see good business and service, like Jordan said it, happy client, and I know it’s a Triad thing, but I remember our conversation with Jordan about significance, like it’s on my hat. I wear this hat all the time now. Thank you for the hat, Brad.
Brad Johnson: Welcome. Fixing up myself.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah. So, that significance, like I’ll never forget that conversation and that word is such a powerful word, right? So, anyways…
Brad Johnson: How do you define that, for those that weren’t part of that conversation with Jordan, like why did it stick with you?
Dana Dunkelberger: Well, basically, he was calling us out like, hey, you’re talking about all these things, but how are you ever going to fulfill that?
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah. What are you actually delivering?
Dana Dunkelberger: There’s five of you in the office. What are you actually delivering? And don’t get me wrong, it’s not like our clients were mad at us or anything, but we were very blessed to have amazing, wonderful clients that we cared deeply about. And they reciprocate. So, our biggest and best clients, our clients that are our core clients, they notice, they have said multiple times, like you guys really have focused on us. We feel like, and you really, like, we see how you’re taking care of us. We see how your whole team is focused on, we feel like– it literally, I think it was last Thursday, a client said, I don’t know how you guys are able to focus so much on me. I’m like, “Well, because the right person is focusing on the thing you need right now, and they’re doing it immediately because they have the bandwidth and time to do it because that’s their focus. That’s their job. That’s what they love to do.” And that’s the other thing. I didn’t realize there’s people that love doing paperwork. And there is. Like, Celeste and Bri, they love to do it, they love to get it right, and they love to help the client get that job done and check that off.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Here’s your verbage. It’s love on your client. This gives us the opportunity to love on our clients and give them what they deserve.
Brad Johnson: Well, going even back to Sabrina, she was new business. She was op. She was HR. This actually allowed her to find her lane to run in as she’s now COO and has been instrumental in helping bring in a ton of the talent that you guys have hired. So, now, you’re able to get her in the spot where she’s not getting bogged down with the stuff. Probably she’s not the best at and probably doesn’t enjoy the most. And that’s what I love about seeing a business scale. Not only does it serve the founders, it serves the team. Now, there’s career tracks for advancement. And it’s just a beautiful thing when you start to see that unfold as you grow and and you’re serving your clients at a higher level.
Well, I got my eye on the clock. I want to go to something here. So, Scott that leads our unified planning team, he pulled some stats for me and I want to start to unpack some of the jump from 30, 32, 35 million up to this year, 85 to 90 mil. We kind of unpacked what we call the Triad advisor model, so sales advisor, service advisor, planning advisor, and the dance that that does to serve your clients. Here’s stats from this year. Are you guys cool with me sharing these stats? I should ask you before I do.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, go ahead.
Brad Johnson: So, 44 plans, and we’ll talk through what this means so far. Averaging 2.072 million of out of those 44 plans, each. Eight of those plans exceeding 2 mil, 15 plans with assets over 1.5. You’ve seen cases ranging from 9, 6.6 mil, 5 mil. And your average case size we were talking through before you got to Triad was about 270k. And so, what I’d love to talk about, this has to be a big part of this growth. You said you went from 270k. You’re averaging bumping up a mil and probably surpassing a mil pretty quick. So, that’s a 4x right there, just on the average case you’re bringing on. You helped build our unified planning team because you said, “Hey, we need help to kind of, we want to overserve our clients, we want to level up the planning we’re doing.” So, you were one of the early adopters of that. Tell us like what that did for your business or if you were trying to explain that to an advisor out there.
Tyler Dunkelberger: As to why how our case size jumped so much?
Brad Johnson: Well, just like call it, I’m just going to put it this way, I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but when you’re selling advisor, service advisor, planning advisor and you’re just nonstop back to back to back and you don’t have somebody that specializes there, obviously, there’s only so much you can do with so many hours in the day. So, now, with more of a focus on these plans, I feel like I’m just, that’s got to be part of you’re serving your clients at a higher level, so the case sizes are going up, is like the best way I can put it.
Dana Dunkelberger: 100%.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah, I think we’re not selling a product anymore. We’re selling a process. We’re selling a plan. And so, it’s much more purposeful. And what our conversation is with the clients we’re helping, we’re trying to help them get somewhere, right? And so, by trying to help them get somewhere, we’re using a variety of different vehicles. It’s not just one thing. No matter what you are, we’re going to use a hammer. That’s the tool that we’re going to use. And so, having the planning team, hey, if they use this, this, this, and this, that helps them accomplish X, Y, and Z, and so, then we can turn right around and then that gives us a better opportunity to share that with our clients. Using these tools will help you complete this task and this is the best way to do it. And here’s why.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, we say that a lot in our office, the right tool to complete the task. What are you trying to accomplish? So, now, it’s not– so many people and even advisors focus on the product and we were that and I won’t. There’s nothing wrong with that. And you don’t know what you don’t know.
Brad Johnson: That’s how most advisors start out in our space because they work for some company that sells a certain product. I mean, it’s very common.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, if it’s a broker, you’re probably getting stocks. If it’s an insurance producer, you probably get an annuity. And those are great tools for the right reason. So, now, like what the planning team helped and just tons of conversations with them, I will say they listen because we didn’t know what the heck we were talking about. We’re like, this is what we want to do. Like, how do we do this? And then we work back and forth with them. And then what ended up happening is, all right, here’s the plan. And then they would get us the information we needed, and then they would do a video to explain everything for us because we didn’t know what we didn’t know.
Brad Johnson: Well, huge shout-out to you guys. As I was prepping for this conversation, I reached out to Scott that leads our team there and he goes, actually, Dana and Tyler were the ones that helped us refine our process because, and I found this to be very common, some of the top performing advisors in the country that I’ve ever met, they’re great relationship people. They’re doing their very best to build great plans, but they’re not like CFAs that are PhDs in every financial product in the world. That’s a whole different skill set there. And as you guys were diving in and wanted to expand the offerings to your clients, you’re like, man, there’s a lot going on and we’d like to level up over here.
And Mitch and Scott kind of got their heads together after the conversation with you, and they’re like, what if we put together some slides that are kind of high-level concepts and then do a little five to seven-minute video tutorial? And now, it’s like a little prep sheet, that’s our prep video you guys can watch and get up to speed like, boom, here are our options. What do you guys think?
Dana Dunkelberger: Basically, what we set, like, and, again, super shout-out to them because they just listen. They’re great dudes. And Sara is amazing. Everybody over there is awesome. So, we were like, we don’t want to overcomplicate this on the front end for the clients. We see this as overcomplicated. We’re simple guys, right? And we need to be able to explain it in a way that the client can make an educated decision and decide to move forward or not.
So, that’s where the PowerPoint came in. It’s just basically three to five PDFs on a PowerPoint. And then we would sit down and have a conversation with Scott about how to explain it. Like, this is why we’re going there because the client asked for this, this, and this. Great. Then, it’s, well, why don’t we just do a video? And then you guys started sending us that. We’re like, “That’s awesome.” And it saves everybody time too, because they can record it when it’s best on their schedule.
So, then we get a package. Here’s this, here’s the explanation video. And we can go watch it, prepare for the client meeting, sit down, run it, and off we go. So, superefficient and very educational for us as well. So, shout-out to those guys. The biggest thing that I will say about Triad– maybe that’s not the right way to put it. One great aspect of Triad, I’ve yet to be told no. Like, no, that’s not a great idea, or no, it’s yeah, let’s figure out how to do that.
Tyler Dunkelberger: We’ll get back to you.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, that’s what I love. Because in the past, it’s like, yeah, that’s not a good idea.
Brad Johnson: Well, we call that member obsession. And I mean, it’s awesome to hear from me, Dana. In fact, when Scott shared this with me, the fact that you guys ask for something different and we altered our process because of it, literally, that was the exact text I sent him. I’m like, “Dude, share this with the team because this is a prime example of member obsession and how, if you’re willing to listen, it can actually change a system that not only benefits you guys, but benefits our entire organization and all the members that are part of it.” And I’ve found, like if you’re just humble and will be a listener, oftentimes your clients will tell you exactly what you need to build. You don’t have to invent it.
Dana Dunkelberger: Right, exactly.
And it’s not that complicated. You just have to not let your ego get in the way.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, I remember early on, I had a very early conversation with Shawn, probably last December. I was like, “Hey, man, I just want you to know, like when I have a question or want to do something, I’m going to call and I’m going to ask everybody. I’m going to lean on y’all because you’re the smart people that we need. And I don’t want to be in the situation I was six months ago. We’re just going to ask. Feel free to say no, feel free to do whatever, but I’m going to be a student, I’m going to listen to you guys and we’re going to figure it out together.” And so far, that’s been incredible, like, literally, it’s…
Tyler Dunkelberger: Worked out great.
Dana Dunkelberger: I ask a lot. I feel like I ask a lot of y’all and it’s always a great conversation and we find our way through all of those things. I’m sure they want to say, man, Dana, that’s a dumb idea.
Brad Johnson: You guys are so easy to work with. And I’m not just saying that because we’re recording a podcast that’s going to go out to the world. I mean, how many times have you thanked your team, thanked us on this, you’re grateful, your students and your hard workers, my favorite people. And I know organizationally at Triad, our favorite people to work with are humble students that are willing to do the work to create the change.
And I mean, when I sat here and looked at your numbers, I knew you guys were having a great year. I didn’t know you were at a triple A year. And that’s a testament right there to you guys, your hard work, your ability to learn, your ability to replicate the stuff we’re sharing and do it quickly because that, I mean, of all the Triad members, we’ve had a lot of success here, but that is a really quick and that’s like a hockey stick right there. So, it’s fun to watch and it’s fun to be a part of.
I know we’re getting towards the end here. Last few minutes, is there anything we haven’t talked about? Back to another advisor out there listening in, watching that has been a breakthrough over the last year for you guys that has led to some of this, I would say success, but significance is the proper word.
Tyler Dunkelberger: That’s right. Finding great leaders, I mean, he’s a great leader.
Dana Dunkelberger: He’s a great leader.
Tyler Dunkelberger: You guys have been great leaders for us. And so, yeah, find great leadership and listen to him. You guys have given us great opportunities, great ideas. We implement them. We listen to your suggestions and we’re excited where we’re going from here.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, it’s the…
Brad Johnson: Next stop is the Kelce brother’s a finance. That’s the next frontier that we’re working on.
Dana Dunkelberger: There you go. Well, when we’re trying to do some of that fun stuff like you’re doing. So maybe…
Tyler Dunkelberger: What episode is this for you?
Brad Johnson: This will be Episode 92, maybe. When this goes live, I think it’ll be Episode 92, yeah.
Tyler Dunkelberger: I know. We’ll make that, buddy.
Brad Johnson: I did 70 before that on my other show, 75, 77. So, yeah, it’s fun, dude. I love it. You guys are going to be awesome and love it too because you’re just curious guys that like to have a good time and like to have good conversations. It’s selfishly, just record them and put them into the Internet. That’s all a podcast really is. It’s a conversation where you learn and then you share.
Dana Dunkelberger: Well, back to your question, like other advisors out there, don’t let yourself get to the point of burnout and hating yourself. But at the other, I’m glad that happened to me and us. I’m thankful for that tough transition and part of our life because you got to go through that to realize and be thankful for where you are and where you’re going. But like Tyler said, go find great leadership. You guys have been great leaders for us. And in some, we talk about a lot. We talk about it in our business and our personal life. We’ve sought out mentors and great leaders we have. And the reason we’ve done that is because we had incredible parents that were great leaders for us growing up. So, that’s been the biggest blessing in our life. You see that and you see how our parents went all in for us when we were young and through the water skiers.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Still do.
Dana Dunkelberger: Saying they still do. We are grateful for them every day. And so, that’s kind of the track that we went down is go find those people that are doing it great and hitch your wagon to them, as we say in Iowa or Texas.
Brad Johnson: Hey, that works in Kansas, too. You’re good there.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah, brother.
Brad Johnson: Well, that’s a good segue. So, last question for each of you and whichever of you wants to jump in, go for it. What is Dana’s or what is Tyler’s definition of Do Business, Do Life?
Dana Dunkelberger: Go ahead.
Tyler Dunkelberger: I mean, for me, right now, I want to keep building this business with my best buddy and this wonderful team. And I want to travel this country. I want to drive down every single road with my family. And I want to keep life as simple as possible.
Brad Johnson: Is driving down every single road, is that in an RV by chance? How are you doing it?
Tyler Dunkelberger: Right now, a pickup truck. We love road trips.
Brad Johnson: Are you hitting national parks along the way? Or what are you doing on the road trips?
Tyler Dunkelberger: In ‘22, we did a big one. We hit, I don’t know, like six or seven national parks. We did 4,200 miles in seven days.
Brad Johnson: Wow.
Tyler Dunkelberger: And then, last summer, we drove out to Amelia Island where we had our DBDL. That was awesome. Drove back.
Brad Johnson: You guys drove. So, you did San Antonio to Amelia Island?
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yep.
Dana Dunkelberger: He did. Tyler did.
Tyler Dunkelberger: I did.
Brad Johnson: Dana has a different definition of Do Business, Do Life.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yeah, it’s a little different, but it starts off the same. Like, Tyler and I have worked together and played together most days of our lives. We don’t get sick of each other. So, the DBDL for me is, again, hanging out with my brother, who’s my best friend, and continuing to build our business our way with great leadership and then being able to step away and love on my family, my girls. My wife is an absolute saint who I don’t deserve, but she definitely puts up with me. But yeah, go and spend as much time on the water and in the water with my girls and my wife as possible. We love the keys. We love the lake. That would be it for me.
Brad Johnson: Love it. I also love what you promised your wife when you married her.
Dana Dunkelberger: Yes.
Brad Johnson: Would you mind sharing that? You know what I’m talking about.
Dana Dunkelberger: I definitely know. When I proposed, I promised her that she would never be bored.
Brad Johnson: And have you honored that promise so far?
Dana Dunkelberger: Brother, have I honored it? I kept that promise. But she has asked me on a couple of occasions over the years, “Do you mind if we could just be bored for a day or two?” And she hasn’t asked in a while. I think she’s finally used to the chaos that I create, either on the weekends on the lake or coming home. And after a seminar and telling her, hey, it was great and this and that.
Tyler Dunkelberger: It’s go time.
Dana Dunkelberger: And the world is amazing and blah, blah, blah. And then the opposite of that is seminar was horrible, the world’s ending, and that sort of thing. So, love you, Shayne.
Brad Johnson: Well, guys, from my side, it’s just a blast. I mean, Do Business, Do Life, and when Sean and I thought it, kind of thought high level the model at Triad, it’s like what would it look like to build a business where you love doing life with the people you do it with? And you guys are an amazing testament to that. Like, I seriously look forward to every single time we get together. There’s lots of laughs every time.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Yeah, I got you. Y’all are doing a great job.
Brad Johnson: So, I’m excited about the next time we get together. I’m working on the December trip, so we’ll hopefully make that happen. I’ve got to check a couple of things, but it’s not that it’ll be right around the corner after that. So, thanks for just sharing so openly. I know this conversation brought a ton of value to those listening in and inspired a lot. Like, I love the honesty where you’re like, hey, we were kind of not loving life there for a couple of years and we needed to find a new way. And it’s just awesome to see that breakthrough with all the work that you guys have put in. So, let’s keep it rolling.
Dana Dunkelberger: Well, hey, we appreciate you and Shawn and everybody at Triad. We’d be lost without you, and our team here at Reliance’s are hugely thankful for them as well. So, blessed to have you all and have you all as friends. And the sky’s the limit where we’re pumped for the next 10 years.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Here we go.
Brad Johnson: It’s go time.
Tyler Dunkelberger: It’s go time.
Brad Johnson: All right, boys, till next time. We’ll see you.
Tyler Dunkelberger: Thanks. Appreciate you.
