Brad Johnson: Welcome back to another episode of Do Business Do Life. We’ve got the dynamic duo here today, Chris and Melissa Smith. Welcome to the show.
Melissa Smith: Thank you. Brad.
Chris Smith: Yeah. We’re stoked to be here. Thanks for having us.
Brad Johnson: Have you ever been introduced as the Dynamic Duo? Because I don’t know where I just came up with that, but it just sounded right for some reason.
Melissa Smith: I liked it. It made me feel like we’re a power couple.
Chris Smith: Yeah. We’re a power couple.
Brad Johnson: You are a power couple. Well, before we hit record here, it’s been a really fun journey getting to know you both. And Chris and I first connected, and many that are listening in right now have probably listened to some of the episodes I’ve had with him that we’re a little bit more focused on the do business side. And what I’m excited about today, Melissa, on your side is bringing you into the equation. I know my wife, Sarah, is a huge fan of the work that really you’re leading, which is Family Brand, and how you take some of the work that kind of originated with Chris, what he was doing with businesses. And then you kind of pointed the focus inward to your family. And it’s incredible the work, how that’s really played out, and how that’s evolved.
And so, I know Sarah, my wife, selfishly will be probably most interested in this episode of any of those that I’ve done but maybe we should just kick it off there. Like, how did Family Brand come to be? What was the origin story? Love to share that with the audience here.
Melissa Smith: Yes. When someone asks me this question, I’m like, “Oh, it’s so many things I guess led to this place of developing this business that we now have called Family Brand.” Usually, we go back to three things though, which is Chris and I when we were first married, we’ve been married almost 20 years now, but when we were in year four, we were separated and we were headed towards divorce. Like, we really thought like that was going to be the outcome of our separation. And long story short, we decided we wanted to stay together. We had two little boys at the time and we wanted to like build a strong family. This isn’t the story that we wanted to write for our family. And so, that for us was kind of like us taking the driver seat of our lives and what we wanted to create.
And then, secondly, Chris has two brothers that have passed away due to substance abuse and addiction. And so, as our children continue to grow older and our marriage shifted and we decided we wanted to have more kids together, and we were really happy, we had three more kids. So, we have five kids. And as they were getting older, right now they’re ages 7 to 17 but we realized, okay, the narrative that’s maybe been written for now for what does it mean to be a Smith, we don’t like some of it. Like, how do we rewrite some of this narrative for our kids so that they have this identity that’s more than addiction and just some other things that are kind of like the Smith family, like how do we take the good and then adjust the things that we don’t want to continue on?
And then thirdly, actually, I’m going to interject one more thing here. So, part of that process of getting clear on who we wanted to be as the Smith family, rewriting our narrative, looks like our family going through Chris’s process that he does at the Possibility Co., which was then The Campfire Effect. And in fact, the reason that kind of started, the reason we had the idea to take our family through his process was he had a client that said, “Chris, the work that we did here today,” they’ve done a workshop together, “this is going to change our business and change how we operate for the next 100 years.” And Chris started thinking, “I want to have that kind of impact like in my family. Could we create something in our family that would impact their identity and how we live for the next 100 years?” So, we took our family through Chris’s process and identity work. Would you add anything?
Chris Smith: Yeah. No. Well, what’s interesting about those listening to the podcast that are in the wealth management financial advisor industry know that statistic, right, like shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations. Like, over 90% of families, which is it’s a crazy statistic but it’s true, over 90% of all families that inherit any kind of wealth, by the third generation, the money’s all gone. And even more sad is that the family usually is completely destroyed and torn apart, and you start to see a lot of addiction, a lot of broken homes, a lot of mental health challenges that are associated with that breakdown. And so, I had come from the industry and so I’m thinking, “100 years, three generations. Like, why don’t we try to do something?”
And all the research shows that why that happens to families is because of a lack of communication and a lack of shared values. So, there’s a lot of dots that were connecting for me from the industry and from what this client said that I was like, “Man, we got to give our family a chance at least.” And so, that was kind of some of the impetus for that.
Melissa Smith: So, he took our family through the process, and at the end of it we realized, “Oh, we just kind of branded our family like we have our own little family brand.” Chris bought the domain. And long story short, he started talking about it to everyone because it was just this really cool thing that we had done for our family. And then a friend kind of cornered him to host a workshop. So, Chris and I co-hosted a workshop, a Family Brand workshop, the first one ever. And then after that, I realized this is really impactful and really cool work. And I personally had this moment where I felt like this is my calling, at least for now, is to have these conversations with families and to build strong families.
Brad Johnson: I love it and it’s been awesome to see it evolve from an idea that you all just really, I mean, it was I call it scratching your own niche. I mean, you all took your own family through this because you’re like, “We don’t want to repeat some of the past history that isn’t going to serve us.” But what’s cool is the same work you all did internally. You’re like, “Wait. There’s other families that could benefit from this.” And I love how it’s really evolved, and I’m going to guess Sarah and I were some of the earliest listeners to the Family Brand podcast because we were talking here, you’re a little over three years into that journey, right?
Melissa Smith: Yep.
Brad Johnson: And what I loved was the realness. Just like we’re sitting here virtually having kind of our version of a campfire conversation. Specifically, even the early ones, you guys were not afraid to be real and vulnerable and like not the IG-worthy post where, “We’re one big happy family,” but like, “No, there’s like been some tough seasons we’ve been through.” And I’ve always just appreciated that you were willing to share that because guess what? Every family’s been through that. And by you guys sharing that journey on your guys’s side, I know Sarah and I one episode specifically, I remember Sarah listening to it she’s like, “Listen to this.”
And I don’t know if you remember this one, Melissa. It was quite a while back but it was kind of this resentment that sometimes forms when your husband is the one going out to the fun conferences and working on personal growth. And guess what? You’re running the house, which, by the way, I think is the harder job of any of those, which is managing the house and all of the activities the kids are doing when us guys are out doing business stuff. And Sarah’s like, “This really hit home,” because it explained to her that it was kind of normal and you guys were really cool how you worked through that. And I’ve always just been a fan of your approach when it comes to this family stuff. It’s like you’re not afraid to get real.
And that’s why I was really looking forward to this conversation because there is no, like, storybook to any family. There’s always the ups and downs of getting through the tough seasons. So, maybe we transition. Chris has always been really open book about some of the struggles that he grew up with and maybe came from his family. How do you see the work you have done with The Family Brand? And I brought our family values. The Johnsons have been through this. I know you guys have yours as well. How do you see that changing the trajectory and how that’s played out? And I know one of my favorite phrases from Chris is, “Language creates.” And I found that to be very true both in business and in life. So, maybe share some of that work. Like, what have you seen come to fruition in the handful of years you’ve been doing this with your family?
Chris Smith: Yeah. I can’t help but draw so many parallels between business and family because I just don’t think there is a whole lot of difference between what it takes to build a really intentional, successful brand and a business. It’s the same thing it takes to build a really intentional, successful brand in a family. You know what it takes to build a really engaged, connected culture in a business is the same thing it takes to build a really engaged kind of culture in a family. And so, it’s kind of this idea that like if you don’t define what your family stands for, the world’s going to do it for you. And if you don’t decide, and I use the word ‘decide’ and intentionally. It’s something we talk a lot about at the Possibility Co. with clients and then with families, this distinction between decision and deciding.
And again, language is so important and words matter. So, ‘decide’ what a lot of people don’t realize is that has the words C-I-D-E or the letters, which in Latin means ‘to kill off.’ So, herbicide, pesticide, homicide, decide. So, there is a big difference between a decision and deciding. Decisions are easy to make and keep your options open. Deciding is a little bit more like you’re choosing and you’re committing. So, an example is like how many people have made the decision to get healthy versus decided to actually be healthy. So, it’s kind of the same thing in a family is like you can decide who you’re going to be as a family. You can decide what you’re going to stand for. You can decide like what your values are, what’s important to you.
And that’s the most important thing, I actually believe, because until we’ve decided, it’s kind of open, we’re open to interpretation, we’re open to influence. And you see this all the time, by the way, in businesses. And I’ve suffered from this as a business owner where I don’t want to decide, I don’t want to choose because that feels confronting. I want to keep my options open. But it’s only by deciding and choosing and going all in that you can really become known for something. And actually, that’s where you actually find a lot of possibility and freedom is in the deciding, in the choosing. And so, it’s the same thing as a family but not deciding is kind of a decision. Like, not deciding is a choice and we’re just kind of open to wherever the wind blows us.
And so, I think there’s just so much power and with language deciding this is who we are as a family, this is what’s important to us, this is where we’re headed, and these are our values. And then you do everything in your power to like go win that game. I kind of see that like in a business, it’s like let’s play to win, let’s create a strategy of where we’re going, and let’s do everything in our power to win. And I think a lot of times we at times, even today, it’s like sometimes you just feel like, “Man, we’re just playing to play.” We’re playing not to lose like we’re trying to survive. But the more we can put ourselves in a position of like we’re playing to win and we understand the strategy that we’ve created and I just think that language is a constant reminder of like, “Oh, this is who we are. This is what we’re committed to. This is the game we’re actually playing as the Smith family.”
And I think it’s easier today than ever to just kind of live by default. There’s so much pressure on families. There’s so many conflicting voices. There’s more activities today than ever before that kids can participate in. And if you’re not careful, you can just look up one day and be like the tail wags the dog in our family. Like, we just run ragged and it feels chaotic and we just feel like the world is running us. And so, there’s this opportunity, I think, to take back your family and decide like, “No, we’re going to decide who we are. We’re going to decide what’s important to us. We’re going to be the source instead of letting all these other things be the source.” And it’s not like, I don’t know, I feel like even for us it’s a constant battle. It’s like, “Do we have the courage to stand out and be different? And do we have the fortitude to like stick with it?”
And that’s the same thing in business. I think a lot of times the biggest challenge in business is having the courage to stand out but then it’s like, “Do we have the fortitude to stick with it?” Because as a business, it’s so easy to get distracted. It’s so easy to chase things. And so, I think just like staying the course, like we’re having conversations today that we had ten years ago that are just like reminding us of like, “Okay. Who are we? What are we really committed to? Like, what do we stand for?”
Brad Johnson: Yeah. It’s almost like a filter of staying true to what you actually want to be about versus being blown around in the wind. I heard Devin, who’s one of our Triad members, he said this the other day, and it really hit home with me because I’ve been really guilty of this but like decisions versus deciding. He said he was really guilty of when his kids would ask him to do something and he say, “Maybe,” because he didn’t want to choose in that moment. “Yeah, I’ll think about it so I hit him with a maybe.” And his thing he shared, which I think is so spot on, he said, “You know, a maybe to a kid is a yes, right?” And so, he said, “By me being kind of lazy in that moment and not having a decisive yes or no and instead living in that middle ground, now I’m disappointing my kid anyway.”
Because if they hear maybe he’s like, “Dad, will you come out and play?” “Yeah. Maybe later,” in their mind, they’re earmarking it for a yes for later instead of just saying, “No, dad’s like too tied up right now. Let’s do that tomorrow.” And I think what you just laid out, Chris, it’s like that on a larger scale of what do we want for our family? We don’t want maybes. We want this is what we’re about and this is what we’re not about. And I just love that deciding. Melissa, I want to kick it to you. And feel free like if you want to dig into some of your Smith family values about how that has been, this lens of, yes, that’s what we’re about, no, this is what we’re not about. How has that played out inside of your family?
Melissa Smith: Yeah. To get into the actual language of the Smith family and this is where I feel like to have these conversations about families I feel like you have to be transparent in a way of like the inner workings of a family. And so, I thought when Chris was talking, came to mind that happened this week. So, we have our family mission, I guess you could call it, is we are committed to elevate and inspire. And so, for the last several years, this has been part of our language. And this is necessarily about like anywhere we go, we want to elevate and we want to inspire. And I caught one of my kids this past week on the phone saying some things that I did not feel like were maybe elevating and inspiring.
And so, we got to when they hang up, have a conversation about, “Hey, remember, like Smiths elevate and inspire. Like, what does that look like? What does that mean?” And like re-educating in a way and reorienting ourselves like this is who we want to hold ourselves to be. And the tricky part of it is not doing it in a way that feels like, “You’re not measuring up,” or that has like shame wrapped around it but in a way that’s inspiring them for more.
Chris Smith: Yeah. I think to have that something I’ve been saying lately, it’s dawned on me as one of the leaders in our home. And I say that intentionally that we’re trying to create a culture here where everyone’s a leader. So, I’m one of the leaders in our home as one of the leaders of the Possibility Co and I founded it and our team’s rapidly growing. A thought that dawned on me recently, Brad, was my number one job as a leader is to be a CRO and that’s a Chief Reminding Officer. You know, because sometimes it can feel like, “No, as a CEO, your job is to be the visionary and always blazing new trails.” And like some of that’s true but like, first and foremost, I believe my number one job is to remind my people, whether that’s family/team, of who we’ve already decided to be.
Because it’s easy to forget. It’s easy to get distracted. That’s that idea of the courage to stand out, then the fortitude to stick with it. And the companies and brands I admire the most are actually the ones who do just that. Like, Melissa is sick of hearing me talk about it. I promise you, I cannot stop talking about In-N-Out Burger for the rest of my life. I’ve never seen another brand that is as true to who they said they were from the beginning. And they get the craziest offers for IPOs and they will not be bought. They get the craziest offers to have people take them as a franchise model. A lot of people don’t know they’re still owned by the same family that started them, and they’ve never strayed.
Melissa Smith: In case someone, it’s more of a West Coast brand, in some case someone listening doesn’t know In-N-Out.
Brad Johnson: There’s a lot of In-N-Out fans on here, I can promise you that. But that’s part of what makes it cool. You can only get it at certain areas of the country. Yeah.
Chris Smith: But what’s interesting is I think a lot of companies and a lot of families without meaning to or even trying to or knowing it were kind of all trying to be McDonald’s and we really want to be like In-N-Out like really, to like know exactly who you are and have the courage to not be influenced by others. Be inspired by them but like, “Oh, we should maybe, you know.” It’s like, “No, we know who we are.” And then I think even more importantly is like the fortitude to stick with that. Like, we don’t need to come up with a new family vision statement every year or two. If we can just remember like we are committed to elevate and inspire, and how much can we actually live in that and remind ourselves of that, that to me is like in businesses, in families, and just reminding people and reminding ourselves of who we’ve already decided to be. And that doesn’t mean that along the way we can’t innovate. But I like to think of it, Brad, as more of a deepening than a changing, families and businesses.
Brad Johnson: You just reminded me of something with the In-N-Out Burger. So, you guys were there but Launch this last year, which is our big kickoff event at Triad in January. We had Simon Sinek come in. And I really love his book, The Infinite Game, and he shares a story about CVS in there. And CVS, the pharmacy, I just googled their mission statement because I didn’t want to butcher it, but it says, “We help people with their health wherever and whenever they need us, and we do it with heart because our passion is our purpose, bringing our heart to every moment of your health.” Well, a few years back, and I believe this is still the case, their competitors are Walgreens and some of the other big pharmacies, I believe CVS was in the multi-millions, if not definitely the multi-millions they were making off selling tobacco products in their pharmacies.
And then they read their mission statement, they’re like, “That actually selling tobacco products does not align with our mission statement.” And they actually decided to stop carrying them because they wanted to stay true to their mission. And they sacrificed millions of dollars of revenue but it’s like, “That’s not what we’re about. That’s counterintuitive to our mission.” And what I hear in the same story you just shared about In-N-Out, they’re ignoring big paychecks to stay true to who they are at their core. And because they’re staying true to who they are, that’s why they always have a line around the block every time I see an In-N-Out. So, what are your thoughts like if you riff and maybe we bring it back to family, but what are your thoughts there on like taking a stand for here’s what we’re about and here’s what we’re not about?
Chris Smith: Yeah. I think it’s really profound and it causes you though, again, like In-N-Out didn’t get there by being like super waffly about decisions and deciding. No. They decided a long time ago, “This is who we are. This is what makes us unique. This is what we could be the best in the world at.” So, that’s its own deciding. Like, why don’t we decide first who we are, what we could be the best in the world at, and what makes us unique? And those are intentional questions we actually ask at Possibility Co and I think they’re great questions to ask a family. Who are we as a family? What makes us unique as a family? What could we be known for and be the best in the world as a family? That in of itself is like really profound clarity. Then it’s like, “And how far are we willing to go with that? Like, how all in are we willing to be? And like, do we have the fortitude like to, again, stick with it?”
And what’s so funny, Brad, is I get a lot of business owners, they’ll push back on me. It’s like, “Well, okay, you’re saying we should try to, we want to be like In-N-Out, but McDonald’s has a way bigger market cap globally. Look at their…” And I go, “Okay. Can I offer some other perspective?” And they’re like, “Sure.” And I’m like, “Did you know that In-N-Out Burger is more than twice as profitable per individual location?” They’re like, “No.” “Did you know that In-N-Out Burger has a 90% CEO approval rating by their employees?” “No.” “Did you know In-N-Out Burger is the third best place to work in America? Not just in…” And it’s just like, well, why? How are they so profitable? How do they have such a great culture?
It’s because they know who they are and they haven’t strayed like they’ve stuck with it. They chose. But what’s crazy about us as human beings is like we don’t want to choose. We don’t like choosing. We don’t like deciding because the counterintuitive nature of it is like it feels like if we choose and decide as a family or as a business, that’s going to limit us. So, we think that by staying wide and kind of keeping our options open, that’s where we find possibility. By staying like really open and like keeping your options open and not deciding is actually the fastest way to create your own limitations. Like, there’s only freedom and possibility in choosing and deciding but it gives you this lens to look through of like it makes it so much easier what to say yes to and it makes it so much easier what to say no to.
And I just think it gives you this power to stick with it. And not that sticking with it is easy. You’re just less susceptible to be blown off course by one another family is doing or in comparing yourself to other families or other people or situations.
Melissa Smith: Yeah. To interject, you’re talking about The Infinite Game. Just those words reminds me of family. I think family is the ultimate infinite game. And sometimes when you talk about In-N-Out Burger, for example, about the culture that they’re building and the things that they’re doing in business, I think it’s so interesting that if you’re listening and you’re a business owner, it’s so easy to want to pour into the business because you can see an ROI like so quickly. Like, let’s tweak some things here. Let’s do this and like, okay, yeah, look, there’s ROI weeks or months later. Or it’s like you pour into your people and they’re listening to you and they’re saying, “Thank you for pouring into me,” whereas go home and it’s like you may be decades away from some of that same validation and that same thank you for pouring into me. Thank you for all the work you’re doing. And the ROI also may be decades away.
And so, it is really easy to lose sight of that but this is the ultimate infinite game in family. But that’s why it’s so important to like just keep reminding and keep doing the work, even though you’re not necessarily seeing the results right away.
Brad Johnson: Are you saying your five children don’t just wake up every morning and say, “Mom and Dad, thank you for all you’ve done for me my entire life”? Yours don’t do that?
Melissa Smith: No.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. Ours do. Yeah. No, it’s so funny because the truth is like if you ask any entrepreneur why, what is one of the core reasons that you decided to do this on your own terms? Family is almost always a part of that equation, right? Like, hey, I wanted to do this because it created more freedom or I was able to do this, but I think it’s that entrepreneurial lie that people fall into sometimes where it’s like, “I’m building my business for my family,” where in reality, if it’s not built with the proper framework, I mean, that’s one of the reasons Triad exist today is helping people win in both business and life together, not this balance trade-off thing. But it’s harder to do at home because I feel like some aspects of it are harder to do at home because your family is not paid to show up at the office, right? And so, sometimes you meet this resistance.
So, I know, Chris, you talk a lot about enrolling so I don’t know which of the two of you, but like if somebody is listening in there and let’s just say they’ve got some kids that are old enough to make the decision whether or not they want to participate in this. How do you start through that enrolling process of like you don’t get the, “Dad, mom, this is really lame. Why are you making us sit down and do this stuff?” Like, what’s your thought process if you were starting that conversation with your family, doing it over again?
Melissa Smith: I’m going to let Chris answer the question, but I’ll say first is that is so common. So, if you are listening and you’re like, “That’s me. I’m the only one,” it’s so common that maybe one spouse is interested in doing this kind of deeper work, and the other is not. Or maybe it’s some kids are, some kids not. So, you are not alone in that, first of all. And so, we even have in our, we call it the Family Brand Academy, we have videos specifically about this, so it’s super common. But I’m going to let Chris answer the actual language that we use.
Chris Smith: Yeah. I think it’s such a great question. And I think it’s so fascinating to me, though, the number of families that over the years have said, “Oh, well, I kind of talk to my kids. They weren’t super excited about it, so we’re not going to do it,” or, “Well, my spouse wasn’t super on board.” And if they’re an entrepreneur, I’ll be like, “Totally understandable but like, can I ask you a question?” They’re like, “Sure.” I’m like, “Would you ever let that fly in your business?” They’re like, “What do you mean?” I’m like, “Would you ever go to your team and be like, ‘Hey, we’re going to create a mission statement. We’re going to create a vision. We’re going to decide who we are and the game we’re playing. We’re going to create a strategic plan to go win that game.’ If your team was like, ‘Yeah. No, thanks,’ would that be okay?” They’re like, “No.” It’s like, “So, why is it okay in your home?”
Like, to me, it’s just like you got to confront that. It’s like, who are we being if we’re like more committed to creating an identity and a vision for our business than we are in our own family? And in that same breath and, look, I’m going to call entrepreneurs out right now. There’s like, “No, no, I’m just as committed to my doing it to my family.” It’s like, “No you’re not. If you were, you would have. You’re more committed to doing your business than you are in your family. You’re more committed to being intentional in your business than you are in your family.” Look, I know people don’t want to hear that, and I didn’t. It is so much easier for me to be intentional in my business than it is in my family. Because in my business, I have people who are hungry for it.
They’re like, “Yeah. Let’s talk about our identity. Let’s talk about our strategic vision. Let’s talk about like how we’re going to go win.” But that doesn’t mean that I’m relieved of the responsibility just because my family’s not as excited about. So, the question becomes like, “Well, how do I be more enrolling? How do I like say it with more conviction?” Because like, look, one of the most important responsibilities of a leader, in my opinion, is your ability to help people see a bigger vision of what’s possible. So, I might have to do it with more conviction. I might have to really enroll them, which is that language of enrolling is really interesting. It’s not like I’m coming home and saying, “Hey, guys. It’s like no matter what, take it or leave it.
Like, I don’t care what you have to say. We’re going to create an identity for our family.” No, it’s like I got to create the vision of what’s possible and enroll them into it and say, “Hey, there’s something I want to talk to the family about. It’s really important to me, and I think it would make a profound difference in our home. I think it really makes a difference for our family for like decades and generations. I value every single one of you, and I value what you would have to contribute to this. And I want you to be a part of this. Like, I want your advice. I want your input. Like you’re a leader and you’re a leader and you’re a leader. You’ll see things in this that I can’t see. So, here’s what I want to say. Here’s the journey I want us to embark on.
It’s like and then when I usually give that like kind of role play that the entrepreneur I’ve talked to was like, “Yeah, I didn’t do it that way.” Like, I kind of went like floated. I weekly floated it across the dinner table and got shot down and so I just gave up. And it’s like, “No, enroll your family like their lives depend on it because they do just like you’d enroll your business. Like, hey, we got to do this like this is how we grow and survive and stay in business.” And so, I think that to me is just fascinating, Brad, that we, and myself included, like show up that way sometimes around something like this. I will say also that if you’ve done everything in your power to enroll your family powerfully and you’ve taken a bold stand for it, and they’re still not interested, doesn’t mean that like you shouldn’t still continue on with it and do it.
You create the identity. You create the vision. You create the mission. You create the values. Hang it up in your home. You start reciting it at one meal every day. Like, still be a leader like be the demonstration. And we give some instruction on this in the academy like you can kind of pull that out of your kids without them even knowing they’re going through a process, like start and ask them some questions. But like a lack of interest or a lack of commitment or age of your kids is not a reason to not do it.
Brad Johnson: Chris, one of those statements that you’ve said that was a coaching conversation, I don’t remember when, but you said if you help plan the battle, you don’t battle the plan. And I think it applies so much in business as it does just that example you just gave. Before we, so the Johnsons have gone through Family Brand. It was awesome. Sarah and I went through that and we followed a lot of the coaching, but you just kind of went through there. But one of the things that I had done a handful of years before, I just sat down with my kids, and at the time, I think they were like probably seven, six, and like two or three. And Nellie was like could barely even talk. And I just ask him, “What’s it mean to be a Johnson kid?”
And I just let him talk and I wrote down what they said and it’s crazy how much wisdom came out of that question, how a two-year-old said, “I love my mommy and I love my daddy.” Well, that’s a pretty good family value to love your parents and they love you back. And so, it was really cool. Like, I think at any age, if you just ask the question and listen and are present, you’ll get some pretty profound answers from my experience. And then like your process was just an evolution, a more refined version of that where we actually kind of put them into statements and the kids were older, so it made a lot of sense. But I’ll make sure and share how one of the ways that I’ve already seen that play out in our family. But like if you don’t mind, like what are a few of the Smith family values, and then maybe share some examples.
I know, Melissa, you shared the one from just this last week but like let’s look at maybe if you zoom out a little bit more over that handful of years you’ve been doing this, how has it played out inside of the family?
Melissa Smith: I’ll share one.
Chris Smith: Yeah, I have one of mine.
Melissa Smith: Okay. What comes to mind so one of our family values is Smiths are friends and adventure together. And I know you’ve probably heard this before but this is in 2020. It was such an interesting year and Chris’s business used to have in-person workshops. And in 2020 that shifted and everything went virtual. And so, we realized we didn’t have to live anywhere. We could live anywhere. And so, I’ve been reciting the Smith family value for several years at that point that Smiths are friends and adventure together. Smiths are adventurous. And we are faced with this opportunity, “Should we continue living here or is there something else that we would be called to like do we want to try living somewhere else?”
And truly like having that family value, it really gave us the courage to do something different because if we’re Smiths, then we’re adventurous, and what would that look like? And so, we had this conversation in August one day, Chris and I, if we didn’t move let’s go on an adventure. If we did want an adventure, where would we be? We’re on a walk in front of our house and we would put the kids to bed. We would take the dogs for a walk. And this one walk, we decided, “Okay. We’re going to go on an adventure. We’re going to sell our house. Where would you want to go?” We threw out a couple of ideas. Ultimately, landed on, “Let’s move to Hawaii.” And that was in August. And then December, we were living in Hawaii. And so, we lived in Hawaii for a year, and it was the most incredible adventure for our family. And I don’t think if we didn’t have that family value of Smiths are adventures, it might have played out differently for our family.
Chris Smith: Yeah. It really is interesting. And what’s funny too is like language creates. We didn’t initially create that value of Smiths are friends and adventure together because we were. It was something that we wanted to become more of. And it literally created us to be that. In hindsight, we tell people, “We had no business selling everything we own and moving to Hawaii.” Like, that is so not us or it’s like, but we really believe we were. So, even our kids were like, “Yeah.” And people all around us are like, “What? You’re just going to sell everything you own to move to Hawaii? and we’re like, “Well, yeah, of course, we’re adventurous.” Because like we believed we were because we’d been saying we were. And so, again, that idea of language creates.
And one of the things I think is important to note is we don’t just turn families loose, Brad, as you know, and be like, “Oh, go think of a mission, vision, values,” because that would be really daunting and overwhelming. It’s like, “Well, how many?” And like there’s a very structured framework where we have families create values in these seven really critical categories that are all backed by science and research. And so, that’s one of the categories for us of that’s one of our values in that particular category. Another one that comes to mind for me is like Melissa had, well, there’s two real quick ones. It can be easy, and I’m sure you’ve experienced this, Brad, with your kids where it’s like, “I don’t want to go to so-and-so’s dance recital. I don’t want to go to so-and-so’s game.” Your kid just don’t want to. Like, I get it, right?
Brad Johnson: For the other kids. The other kids in the family. Yeah.
Chris Smith: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, everyone wants to go to their own thing, but it’s like, “I don’t want to go support my sister or my brother.” And so, Melissa’s really big on this, even more than me. Not that it’s not important to me. I just don’t think about reminding our kids enough as much. But one of our family values is Smiths show up for each other. And Melissa uses that a lot as a reminder of like, “Hey, let’s go show up for Ivie. She’s got a gymnastics performance like we show up for each other.” Or so-and-so has a soccer game, like we show up for each other. And that really does, I think, have our kids, not that they grumble or groan any less, but I think it’s like, “Okay. Yeah.” And they can remember times where people have shown up for them and supported them. And probably you…
Brad Johnson: Yeah.
Chris Smith: Go ahead, Brad.
Brad Johnson: No, as you’re going through those and you’re like just these little values, number one, some of them can be aspirational. We might not be all the way there but we aspire to go there, the adventurous one, but like our version of Smiths show up for each other is Johnsons have each other’s backs. And it’s that exact same scenario. I can just think of a couple of conversations over the last week. “Do I have to go to Nellie’s softball game? Ugh.” It’s like, “Hey, we have each other’s backs. She was there for your football game. Let’s go.” And it’s just like, no, this is what we’re about and it’s just… But now you have a phrase to lean on versus, “Just because dad said so.” And I just love the difference there.
Chris Smith: I’ll share one more and this one’s really special to me, and I think it was really special to Melissa. It was like a, you know, because sometimes you’re like begging for a parenting win. It’s like why don’t you get one win that maybe shows that I’m maybe doing something okay once in a while. Sometimes they don’t come that often. So, Ivie, our oldest daughter, did junior high track. And one of our family values, and look, you can also what’s cool is within the framework, you can refine your family values. As your family evolves and grows, maybe your values can grow with them, you know, but one that we’ve had from the beginning that I can’t really can’t ever imagine a time we don’t have this even when Melissa and I are empty nesters because we’re going to go back through the framework when we’re empty nesters and it’s like create family values, you know?
But it’s Smiths can talk about anything without judgment. And then without judgment, obviously, is easier said than done. Because I think a lot of times in families, unfortunately not on purpose, but it’s kind of like we can talk about certain things but you’re going to be judged if you do. That gets created in lots of families. So, we’ve really tried to create space, sometimes better, sometimes we’ve blown it. And I think Melissa’s instilled that so much that it’s not… And here’s another aspect of that for us, Brad, it’s not only can we talk about anything without judgment but we will proactively talk about things that a lot of families don’t talk about. You know, because it’s just like a lot of families, like uncomfortable.
We don’t talk about sex. We don’t talk about drugs. We don’t talk about pornography. We don’t talk about when you have your period. We just kind of avoid it and we’ll confront it when we confront it. So, what we’ve tried to build in our family is not only can we talk about things when an issue has taken place that you can come to us, but you can just count on us to be talking about things that normally, you know, might feel uncomfortable.
Melissa Smith: Oh, and I’ll add that I think for Chris and I, this was something that when we had the conversation of like, okay, what are the things that in our family history that we liked? What are the things we wanted to change? I think we both realized we wanted to have more open conversations with our kids than our parents had with us. And so, I think that’s kind of the beginnings of this family values like something that we knew we wanted to do differently.
Chris Smith: Yeah. And one of the things, Brad, that I think is language creates, I really don’t like in society that we refer to so many things as the talk. Did you have the sex talk? Did you have the friends talk? Did you have the drugs talk? Did you have the body-changing talk? Because it implies it’s a talk like a check one and done. This is language we use in our family and we tell our kids, “We’re going to start conversations that we’re going to stay in.” So, we’ve started the sex conversation and we’re going to be in it. We’ve started the drugs conversation and we’re going to be in it. And you can just count on this dialog. And it’s not like we need to talk about every single one of those topics like all the time but it’s an ongoing dialog and a conversation.
And one of the ones that Melissa has had with our daughters, which I just love, is, yeah, your body is going to change and you’re going to hit this thing called puberty and you’re going to start your period. And again, even that is like it seems awkward to have to talk about that. But like why is it? So, Ivie, our oldest daughter, is doing track and junior high age and one of the girls one day at track practice was like mortified because she started her period and literally was like freaking out. And Ivie goes, “Oh, no worries. Like, let’s call my mom. She’ll know what to do.” And it was like I got emotional about it. It was just like I love that Ivie was just like have no hesitation. And I was like, “Man,” and we really acknowledge her because I don’t think Ivie saw it as that big of a deal. Like, I knew that was like being a leader.
And that girl like went from like horrified, potentially like really embarrassing situation to where it didn’t have to be that at all. And I was just like, how cool is it that Melissa’s created that with Ivie where Ivie was like, “No, I can call my mom. She’ll know what to do. She’ll help us out.” Yeah. It’s a really cool experience.
Brad Johnson: That is awesome. Yeah, it’s back to share anything without judgment. If you create a safe place where you know you’re not going to be judged. I mean, isn’t that what we all want in life? And my wife has been on this train from day one with our kids. It’s like we don’t have pretend names for body parts. It’s penis and vagina. Those are the two names, right? And I just love, like, she from day one as soon as the boys asked, and Nellie now it’s like, “No, we’re going to have real talks here. This is how anatomy works. This is facts. This is not.” But back to somebody is going to educate your children, the question is who’s it going to be? Is it you or is it some YouTube channel or some IG influencer?
Chris Smith: Totally. That’s the kind of a thing I talked about earlier, Brad. Like, as much as we can, can we be the source instead of outsourcing? And sometimes I don’t even realize I’m doing it but it’s like, “No, no, no. I’m outsourcing my kid’s education to the school system. I’m outsourcing their spirituality to the church. I’m outsourcing their sense of like belonging to a sports team. I’m outsourcing their sex ed to their friends’ group.” And as much as I cannot outsource, like, yes, I hope you get a lot of belonging from your sports team. I hope you get a lot of spirituality from our church. I hope you get a lot of education and community from your school. I hope you create like a dialog with your friends that’s useful and helpful, and I’d love us and our family to be the source as much as possible.
Brad Johnson: Okay. I want to go to one other thing that I’ve taken from you guys that very much aligns. And Sarah and I have this thing. I think it was an Andy Stanley podcast. I heard this from the first time but he talked about his goal with his kids is when they have the ability to choose what they do as adults. He wanted to create a home environment that they wanted to come back to. They craved it. And one of the things he talked about was rituals and like family dinners or certain things around holidays. And I know that’s one of the things. And I don’t know if this was a podcast I heard from you two but I know like you have the New Year’s Eve ritual where it’s like kind of the awards you give out to the family and you’ve started to create almost like these pillars of this is what the Smiths do during certain times of the year.
How much of that plays into Family Brand as far as these rituals and routines and about creating an environment the kids want to come back to after? Honestly, it’s their choice whether they want to or not.
Melissa Smith: Yeah, a few thoughts. The first one is it’s really important for me that we create a family culture. Another one of our mottos is we believe that you can be who you want to be. And I feel like if we can successfully create a culture that feels that way, even as our kids get older, they won’t feel like they can’t come home because they are maybe something different than we expected them or one of them but can we really create this culture where they belong and no matter what. And they can be who they want to be. Moving on.
Chris Smith: Well, I’ll just say one of the things Melissa said from the beginning, a family brand is like I want to create relationships with our kids that are going to last. That just stuck. And so, like that was the thing in our conversation that’s now made its way in the Family Brand. And I do believe Melissa’s providing a ton of leadership in helping families. You can’t guarantee anything but like, yeah, there are things you can do right now to give you a high increase of probability that your relationships are going to last. And an observation we’ve made and it’s sad, most families drift apart as they get older. It’s really uncommon and rare to actually see a family stay super close and connected and they become closer. And when it does, Melissa and I are like fascinated. We’d go talk to that family and ask like, “Okay. What did you do here? How have you created this? Like, what do you do to keep it going?”
Melissa Smith: Yeah. Totally. Thank you. And then a few other thoughts. There is a lot of research that talks about the power of family ritual. You can call it ritual or you can call it tradition but how that helped shape identity for family and stability like for children as well. And so, in ritual, when I first heard the word ‘ritual’ I was like, “What does that actually even mean?” But it just means like the rhythms of your family. So, maybe that’s like we eat Sunday dinners together. Like, what is your bedtime routine? Like, those things that you do over and over and over again. And one thing that I think it’s easy, it’s like an easy thing that a family can do that it checks so many boxes is mealtime together.
Again, so much research about the power in mealtime and how families that eat I think it’s five or more meals together a week. There’s a decrease in teenage pregnancy. Mental health has improved for the children. It just really is remarkable the effects of family meals together. But I think it’s more than just you’re eating a meal together but it’s like you’re talking in those meals. You’re prioritizing your time together. And so, I’m really big on family mealtime. That’s one of the rituals that the family adopts for the family. And those other rituals, like you mentioned, the New Year’s Eve, every family is unique. Like, maybe you enjoy camping, maybe to go to the dunes. Maybe it’s baseball. Like, whatever it is, I think that’s part of the identity. Like Chris said, identifying who you are as a family and then not being afraid to go deep on those things and make that really part of who you are together.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. I remember growing up on a farm in Kansas one of our family rituals was wheat harvest. That’s where, you know, for a week you were like working crazy hours but everybody would bring food to the harvest fields. And that was just part of what I remember was a family ritual. And then we had a, my dad’s side of the family is from Sweden, and so we would have a Swedish Christmas with lutefisk. Just what everybody wants for Christmas, right, like, Jell-O-y white fish. But anyway, but it was like it was special because you would have cousins that would joke and it was like this coming of age thing in the Johnson family where it was like, did you have your lutefisk this Christmas, right?
But it’s those little things that kind of can hold a family together when technically you can kind of go your own ways and do your own thing. I know we’re getting close to time here, and I feel like we could just riff on this stuff for hours, but I want to share a couple of things like that going through this process, the Johnsons going through this process, what it’s done for us. But before I get to those, any other thoughts just on whether it’s the work that you’ve seen play out with the Family Brand, and I know it continues to evolve as you guys are really the lab where you’re doing this for your own family, and then when you have things that work, you just share it. And I love that about you guys. But any other thoughts on just Family Brand in general, some of the work you guys have done with your family, and how that’s played out?
Melissa Smith: The thing that’s coming to mind for me is I think that so many of the challenges facing the world today, we’re looking for these solutions like further down the line, like through the government or through whatever it may be. I’m like I feel like so many of these things could be addressed early on in family. Like, if we can create this environment for our kids like a culture where each member of our family can thrive and they have a voice, I think that we are sending our kids and our society up for so much success. I don’t even think that we can comprehend like the impact that one individual family can have on the world because a stronger family means a stronger street, which means a stronger city and a stronger state and country. It’s not far-fetched to me that this is where change really happens is here in our homes.
Brad Johnson: Well put.
Chris Smith: Yeah. That’s beautiful. I think the thing I would add, Brad, is like having five kids and just doing some research and seeing what’s going on in the world. I think self-worth amongst kids is the lowest it’s ever been in the history of the world. And I think we underestimate dramatically the impact of technology and social media on kids’ mental health. Because if you ask any kid, “Hey, you spent an hour on social media. Do you leave feeling better about yourself and more inspired and feeling like you have a lot of worth?” They’re like, “No. Like, all I do on social media is compare myself to everyone and everything and find evidence for why I’m not enough, why I don’t belong, why I’m not worthy, right? Why I don’t matter.” And I just think that myself included, I have not been prepared for how much responsibility I have as a father to combat that.
And I’m not saying I have all the answers, but it’s really present for me that one of my number one jobs as a dad and as a leader of my home is to reinforce to my children that you matter, you belong, you’re enough, and you’re worthy because they’re getting bombarded with that all day out in the world. And so, to me, Family Brand is one of the ways that we can reinforce that and help our kids create an identity that serves them instead of an identity that the world wants to give them. And I try to tell my kids, literally, like literal words. I try to tell them as often as I can remember to, I’ll just see one of them and I’ll be like, “Hey, you matter, you belong, you’re enough, and you’re worthy.” So, it’s like from literally saying it to like all of the rituals and the cadences and time together, to me, it’s for one purpose and one purpose only. It’s like, man, if I can reinforce to my kids an identity that has them be like, “You know what, I like myself.” I think they’ve got everything they need.
Brad Johnson: Yeah, that’s such a big topic. I mean, we’ve never had a more connected, disconnected society than right now. And to your point, it’s really scary as a parent. One of the most powerful quotes I’ve ever heard is, “Comparison is the thief of joy.” And unfortunately, that is what social media creates. Not that there aren’t some benefits, but I remember I heard one time it was at a dad’s retreat, and they were talking about like labeling your kids like, “Oh, you’re so fast, you’re so smart, you’re so pretty.” And the guy was talking to his daughter and he’s like, he’s telling her she’s so pretty and he’s just trying to be a good dad, right? Just like love on her and, “Hey, you’re so pretty.” And I remember one of the other guys in the group said, “Well, pretty is external. True beauty is like internal.”
And he said, “What I tell my daughter, like, if she’s got a new dress on, I’ll be like, ‘Oh, your dress is so pretty. You look so beautiful. But guess what? The prettiest thing is the little girl inside of it.’” And I remember that just always stuck with me because everything on social is all this external like appearance or you got to look like this or do that to be successful or popular. The truth is like what you all are working on the family values, that’s internal beauty and that’s much deeper, harder work. And I love the work you guys are doing and the Johnson family’s benefited a ton. I’ll share just like one story. And I don’t know that I’ve shared this with you guys. So, Chris, you actually witnessed one of my oldest son’s football practices. You flew in and I think you took an Uber over and it was kind of starting to get a little cold.
But my oldest son, so he’s got small-town Kansas football and he’s pretty athletically gifted. But there was this opportunity to try out for this Kansas City team, and that’s like an hour or that’s big a city, right? A lot bigger talent pool. And so, we heard about this late and he got invited to a practice after they had already officially done tryouts. And he was kind of nervous because, obviously, like a bunch of kids he’s never played with before, not the kids he’s grown up playing sports with. And I remember Sarah and I like the coach is like, “Hey,” kind of made a loophole and he’s like, “Hey, yeah, have him come down and practice and we’ll consider that the tryout.” And like up to this point, we think he’s super excited. He loves football. We’re like cool. Like, we got him an opportunity to maybe get a few extra games this season. And I remember we share it and he’s like, “I don’t want to do it.”
He’s like, “Those aren’t the kids I played with. I don’t want to.” And I could just tell there was an internal battle going on that he didn’t want to fully share with us. And one of the things that got us through that, one of our core values is Johnsons get uncomfortable and do hard things. And so, we just tied back and anchored back. We’re like, “Hey, here’s the deal, dude. Like, we’re not saying you have to sign up. But at least try it. Just go up. Do one practice. You know, Johnson’s get uncomfortable. We do hard things. At the end of the day, you don’t want to join the team, nobody’s going to force you to join the team.” Long story short, like he goes up there, and by the end of that practice, it was clear he was going to be one of the best kids on the team.
But had it not been, and by the way, he’s now played for that team two years. They got third in the nation the first year, sixth in the nation last year. And then they’ll have their final run as eighth grade this year. Now, he’s actually off running a track meet with three of those teammates he met tomorrow. Sarah’s taking him to. And so, if it wasn’t for that little core value that took a little bit more of a nudge back to language creates, like he would have never experienced that in his life and he would have lost out on incredible memories, opportunity to grow as an athlete, grow as a human. And so, I just know this work you all are doing really, really matters, and it’s worth taking the time to do it. And like there’s one, there’s many. We’ve got eight of them.
There’s many ways that has already started to play out in our family but I just want to thank you both for sharing something that you all like kind of brought into reality in your own family. And it’s awesome. You were saying now, at this point, probably thousands of families have gone through either your live course or your online course. So, I just want to say thanks to all the work you’re doing to make families out there better.
Melissa Smith: Thank you, Brad, for having us.
Chris Smith: Yeah. That’s amazing. Yeah. Thanks for sharing the story. It’s awesome.
Brad Johnson: I know, Chris, you’ve answered this question so, Melissa, maybe I’ll throw this one at you. Obviously, this is the Do Business Do Life podcast. You all have been to a number of Triad experiences so I love like I just consider you part of the Triad pack. But if you were to give your definition, Melissa, what does Do Business Do Life mean to you? How would you define that?
Melissa Smith: I do consider myself part of the Triad pack so thank you for creating a culture where I can build up. So, thank you. Do business do life I would say I like what you said earlier how it’s never, it’s not necessarily a balance or it’s like I say do business do life is doing both like to the best of your ability. And some might be sometimes season might look like leaning into one more than the other. But I think that it’s an ‘and.’ I think sometimes we look at it like it’s an either-or but I think you really can do both.
Brad Johnson: Hey, you all are proof of that. Yeah, I love it.
Chris Smith: It’s awesome.
Brad Johnson: Chris, any additional thoughts that you want to add there?
Chris Smith: You know, I totally do think that we sometimes see them as either-or, and they have to be in conflict with one another. And I think it’s kind of interesting that to look at like we do business so we can do life, but we do life so that we can do business. And they can support each other and I love the emphasis that you guys have created as part of your identity. Because I think it’s really easy for us as entrepreneurs sometimes to be like, “Oh, I’m doing business for my family.” And sometimes I think it’s useful the question that can be like, “Well, show me the evidence of your life,” because I had a guy one time who was like, “I’m doing all this for my family,” but later he’s like, “But I never coach any of my kids’ sports teams, and I’m missing out on their life, but I’m doing it all for my family.”
And I’m like, “Well, I bet if you asked your family what they wanted, they probably wouldn’t want you working 14 hours a day. They’d probably be happy with you working eight even if that meant less lifestyle and have more of your time.” It’s why I love that Triad stands for that. It’s like it’s an ‘and,’ right? Do business and do life.
Brad Johnson: And it helps back to where we started this conversation. It helps us stay true to that. Yeah. There have been many times as we’re doing our experiences, we’re like, “No, no, no, no, that’s way too much do business. We haven’t worked enough do life in.” If my wife would not enjoy this experience, we probably need to go back and rework the ingredients. So, we’re going to stay true to that. Well, y’all, I know it’s Friday. I’m sure you’ve got some life to do on your side. I know you just broke ground on a new home, so I’m guessing you probably have some fun stuff to do there. So, as always, love our conversations anytime we can get together. So, thanks for sharing your wisdom with the audience here.
Melissa Smith: Thank you, Brad.
Melissa Smith: Thanks for having us on.
Brad Johnson: All right. We’ll see you.
