Brad Johnson: Welcome back to another episode of Do Business. Do Life. I have Triad team member, Kenzie Olejnik, with us today. Welcome to the show, Kenzie.
Kenzie Olejnik: Hello. Pronounced my last name correctly. I’m impressed.
Brad Johnson: Well, Siri always gets it wrong, just so you know, but yeah. Well, here we go. This one is long overdue, and you all are in for a treat today because you get to meet one of the individuals behind Triad’s culture. And I have to say, Kenzie joined Triad at a very pivotal time. Shawn and I were young founders, still are young founders, but we had a growing team, and we had a lot of intentions around culture, but didn’t always have the person to execute and bring it all together. And that was Kenzie as she joined the team as Chief Culture Officer. Your role’s evolved a couple of times since you’ve been here, Kenzie. But let’s go all the way back.
Kenzie Olejnik: Let’s do it.
Brad Johnson: For those that haven’t met you yet, when did you join Triad? And let’s just be unfiltered. We were talking before we hit record here, and there is no such thing as a perfect culture. And I know ours wasn’t, and it sure isn’t today, but we pour a lot of resources and effort into trying to make Triad just an incredible place to work. So, flashback, when did Kenzie enter the picture at Triad?
Kenzie Olejnik: Okay. So, put your mind, it is April of 2022, and there were 22 team members at Triad. And do we want the story? Like, are we going to get in?
Brad Johnson: Yeah, go all in.
Kenzie Olejnik: Okay. All right. So, I used to work way back in the day at Payless, their world headquarters, which I know you did as well. So, shout out to Payless, and met a mutual connection there. We hadn’t talked in over 10 years, and she actually reached out on Instagram and said, “Hey, I’m at this new company. We’re building something awesome, looking for someone to do our training and onboarding. Do you want to be part of it?” And it seemed really interesting, but to be transparent, when I found out the location, which was an hour from my house, I said, “This sounds awesome, but I don’t think this is the right time right now.” So, she said, “Well, what if we just hop on a call and maybe you could give us some tips on culture things to do?” I’m like, “Let’s do it.”
So, Logan and myself and you hopped on a call. It was supposed to be 30 minutes and went an hour and a half, and as soon as I heard about Do Business Do Life, it just felt different. I’ve never heard of that concept, and really I loved it, and I just thought it was different. So, I remember thinking, “Dang, I wish the location, this seems like a really good thing, but I don’t think now that it’s going to work.” So, it continued the conversation, ultimately led to me turning down an offer, which you guys do not let me forget.
Brad Johnson: Yes, you did.
Kenzie Olejnik: But it was honestly purely just based on location and two young kids at home. I was working fully remote, a sister that I helped take care of, and it just wasn’t the right time for our family. So. I said no. I definitely cried. That should have been a first sign for you guys like, “This girl is crazy.” And that was a Wednesday, and on a Thursday, I was at a bowl sale.
Brad Johnson: Welcome to Kansas.
Kenzie Olejnik: I know, here in Kansas. My sister that I mentioned earlier, she has a pop-up business, a pop-up camper, where she does different shows. So, I was helping her there. We were leaving the bowl sale an hour later than we were supposed to, mind you. And there was a parking, I say parking area, it was a field, people were parking in, to go to the bowl sale. I’m driving down this gravel road to go home, and I see someone waiting to cross the road, so I stop. And who do you think it is? It’s Brad Johnson in the middle of nowhere on this gravel road crossing in front of my car.
So, I remember I rolled down the window, and I said hi. And then you are like, “What are you doing here? Are you following me?” And so, I’m a smart Aleck, of course, and I said, “You’re following me. I was here first. I’m the one leaving. You’re the one getting here.” And it was just pretty crazy. We said, “Hello. Have fun,” and we were on our way. So, my mom and sister were behind me in the car. So, I called them immediately. I said, “Did you see who I just stopped for?” And they said, “No.” I said, “That was Brad Johnson. That’s one of the founders of Triad.” And my sister so lovingly said, “Yeah, because the universe is trying to tell you, you made a mistake like you shouldn’t have told them no.”
So, we laughed about that, and it was just like that was really strange. That was a Thursday. On Monday, you guys called. Shawn and you called me back and said, “Hey, totally respect your decision, but it feels like it was due to location. We’ve actually been exploring doing more of a hybrid model with our team doing some days work from home and some in the office. Would you be interested in joining and helping us create that?” And that’s when I knew that it was right and that it was it. And a big part of that was because I love that you guys listened to the actual reason why I said no. It was due to location. You didn’t just try to throw like titles or money or other things at it, shiny objects. You said what actually mattered to me. So, that’s how we got here.
Brad Johnson: Well, I’m glad. Shout out to NextGen by the way, if any of those guys are listening. I’m glad I made that trip. And I think in life, there are bigger forces that are at work sometimes that you don’t know about. And those days of Triad, just to give my side, and we were just kind of in the early days of forming a team, and it was quite chaotic, very much, very still startup vibe, pretty much everybody with their hands in everything. And we knew we desperately needed somebody to kind of view our team as their client. And when you’re building a brand like Triad and Do Business Do Life, obviously, you’ve got to be really intentional because in the startup days, it’s really, really easy for the business to become your life.
And I’m really proud and grateful that you joined during that time, Kenzie, and I know Shawn and I have told you a few times you were like an angel that blessed Triad in that moment because, quite honestly, our culture was not great back then. I mean, we wanted it to be, but we just didn’t have two founders getting pulled 500 different directions. And I know a lot of advisors listening to this feel that. A lot of them, when they get to Triad, that’s the stage they’re in. And it’s not on purpose. It’s really hard to both drive revenue as a salesperson in a business, but also get the team organized, structured, communicating.
And so, if we go back to, let’s call it the first few months at Triad, what are some themes that you saw here when we were small, about 10, 15, 20 team members, which is where we meet a lot of our founder firms, the first time they get to us is kind of in that early growth stage. What are some themes you saw and maybe some ideas, if there’s a founder out there struggling with that, that they could start to implement or get their head around for their team?
Kenzie Olejnik: Yeah. I think two of the biggest things are honestly just clarity and communication. That’s something that I noticed when joining. The Heart was there, the mission was there, and it was so loud and clear, and everyone was behind it, which is one of the hardest parts. And then after that, it’s the refinement. How do we communicate better? How do we all get on the same page? How do we have job descriptions? How do we know who’s responsible?
Brad Johnson: Oh, yeah. We should get some of those.
Kenzie Olejnik: Those little things. How do we know who’s responsible for what? How do we know who to ask for what? Who’s making the decisions? What are we doing? And so, that’s a lot of what I felt when I got there. There was so much excitement and fun and love. It just needed to have some clarity and some intentionality put behind it. We talk about, all the time, if the culture is right, success is inevitable. If the culture is wrong, you can kiss the dream goodbye. And I think it’s so easy to think, “Hey, we have a great team here like it’ll work itself out,” or it will be, “With great people come, great things.” Yes, but there has to be a lot of intentionality behind it. And so, that’s what I saw at Triad, and I see at other firms too.
And so, speaking to those founders, like you mentioned, part of it is honestly just giving yourself grace. Most people’s brains aren’t wired to have the sales mentality and the culture mentality, like those are two different minds. And so, don’t put pressure on yourself to be good at both, but you still have to put intentionality behind it, or find someone to put the intentionality behind it. Otherwise, it can get tricky pretty fast.
Brad Johnson: Well, and if I look back, I might have blocked some of those moments out. It was intense in the early days of Triad. And I think if I look back, one of the early things I think you did well, like Chief Culture Officer, that’s not a common term, but it speaks to what we wanted. Because technically, most places that would just be called HR, right? And I know you kind of were focusing on the proactive side, which was kind of led by culture and heart, but there was also kind of the reactive side that was personnel and HR, and those two can kind of be at war with each other sometimes. But one of the things I remember from the early days, I told you we’d keep it real here, your office I feel like the first month or two was more like a therapist office where we were a couple years old, going on a couple years old at that point, and there was almost like some pent up stuff that the team just hadn’t had any place for it to go because we’re just running a hundred miles a minute.
And I know that’s been common with you do a lot of coaching for our member firms too, around culture and communication. So, what leads to that? Is it just there’s nowhere to go with it? Most small financial services firms don’t even have HR or somebody leading on culture, because I know a lot of founders, in turn, end up like getting barraged with just all the feelings and the personnel, and when they’re trying to build, it can kind of crush you. I mean, it’s not like you don’t want to love on your people, but if all you do is that, you don’t get the other stuff done as far as the big objectives. So, I don’t know, big question there, but what kind of causes some of that, and what are some ways of getting in front of that if you’re a founder out there?
Kenzie Olejnik: Yeah. I think a big part is the know where to go, but almost even more common is there are places to go, but maybe action is not taken from it. And that’s not from a lack of care or want from a founder. Again, they’re doing a lot. They’re building a business, they’re selling, and they’re not trained or equipped to handle those types of things either. And it’s hard to be someone’s friend, someone’s boss, someone’s lead there. It can just get really messy. And so, I think a lot of it is, some of it is maybe nowhere to go, but a lot of it is they hear it, and they listen. They just don’t know how to fix it. And so, also that can help. That can hurt, I guess, the trust with a team member because they’re saying things and they’re asking for things.
And if change isn’t happening, then that starts to erode it too. So, I think it’s totally normal and it is a hard cycle to break, but it’s really, really important to slow down is the first thing that you should do and make sure that you are almost looking at two separate clients, honestly. You’re looking at your clients, the actual people that you serve, but your team should be your clients too. And so, when I joined Triad, that was my focus. I told both of you, you keep building this thing, you keep focusing on that. I’ve got the team, and I’ll bring you in when we need to. But having that barrier, you can’t be building and doing team at the same time.
Brad Johnson: And as you started, I mean, I know a big part, at least what I saw, is you listened. Like, when you first came in, you didn’t just come in guns blazing. You connected. You listened. You kind of met people where they were at, gave them a safe place, for lack of a better term. But then really quickly, once you settled in, I know one of the things you did for Shawn and I, we of course had the intent of if somebody’s having an anniversary, like, hey, they’ve had a year at Triad. If they’re having a birthday, if they’re having an anniversary, just an important life moment, they’ve got a loss of a loved one, well, you’ve got 20-some people at Triad when you got here. That’s hard to keep track of for a founder that’s running and running a business.
And I know one of the most helpful things that you did for Shawn and I in the early days is you just make us aware. “Hey, FYI, two birthdays this week. Be nice if you dropped a message, Hey, this person’s got their two-year anniversary. Be nice to swing by and say what’s up.” So, was that just a Kenzie framework? Like that’s just kind of how you rolled in life. I know you’re an Enneagram 2, and we’re going to get into that, what that means here in a little bit. Or had you borrowed that from other mentors that you’d learned from where it’s like, “Hey, make sure you keep the important stuff top of mind with the team”?
Kenzie Olejnik: Honestly, it’s more just kind of a 2 thing, I think, an Enneagram 2 thing. But I think part of it also came from I worked in all different companies of all different sizes, and I know how important being seen, how big of a difference that it makes, and how even those littlest things matter. And so, I just really took that to heart and took that seriously. And I know also, knowing you too well, I know that’s what you wanted. It was just hard to create with so much that was on your plate. And so, I was feeding you guys things, but what I love too, and what I think is one of the most important, you both did it in your own way, and it wasn’t the same.
So, I think for people listening, the authenticity behind it is honestly the most important part. Because also, you don’t want to stop by and say something and them know like, “Oh, I know culture told you about that, or HR,” whatever the title is. It has to come from the heart, and it has to be in your way and really intentional. So, I think having someone can help, but also it’s on the founder too, to continue maintaining those and being authentic with them as well.
Brad Johnson: What were some of those early ideas, if we’re throwing a few out, where it was small team? Let’s kind of celebrate the team. I mean, I’ll start you off. I remember one. We’re in a college town, Lawrence, Kansas, so you’ve got some kind of funky little coffee shops and stuff. And we have one that has like old school cereals, like Lucky Charms, Trix, like all the stuff that, the cereal that you probably shouldn’t eat, but we all did growing up. And you did like a cereal bar experience, where we just went middle of the afternoon, you took the whole team, and we just like mashed up some random cereal mixes. What are some of your other early Triad, or maybe more recent Triad, where it was like, “Hey, this was some cool stuff we did to kind of create a culture, make sure everybody matters, get everybody together.” So, maybe toss some of those out.
Kenzie Olejnik: Yeah. On the cereal bar, really quick, first of all, I had been here one week, and you guys all followed me and went. I’m like, “Why are these people listening to me? This is so weird.” But it was fun. It literally is like Chipotle, but with cereal. It’s awesome. But I remember that day, I can still picture it vividly, even walking around to each desk and encouraging everyone to go, and telling you two as founders, “Hey, it’s really important that you show up.” I remember one team member was like, “Hey, I’m slammed. I’m working on a case for a member,” which you always want to put them first, but I said, “Just pop over for 20 minutes. It’s important to show the team that it’s okay to breathe for a second. It’s okay to bond. It’s okay to have fun.”
And so, really working on that mentality too, especially in a startup where you guys have been grinding like it was a lot. And so, I think just a reminder for founders and leads, you have to show your team that it’s okay to have fun and to be together and breathe for a second. So, birthdays are big. Birthdays are one of my favorite things in the whole wide world. And I think what’s really important with all, with birthdays or team member anniversaries is that it all has to be the same, making sure that you are celebrating everyone equally and the same. So, I’m kind of a stickler for that, but same decorations, but everyone gets a gift, and a decoration, and a card signed from the team. Like, who gets birthday cards anymore? Nobody. But who doesn’t like receiving that and messages from the team?
The team member anniversaries that I mentioned, we call them Triad anniversaries, because I have to put a cheesy name on everything that I do. So, celebrating those and making sure those were the same by milestones. We started a Kudos Channel in Teams or Slack, whatever you use, but just a way to shout out, celebrate each other, and really encouraging people to put big and small, and making sure all levels within the company that we’re sharing in that. And we would share those out at our Monday morning meetings. So, that’s another one. Monday morning meetings. That is a part of culture. How are you communicating, and what are the types of things that you’re sharing? So, that was really big. This is a silly one, but One Bite Challenges are like…
Brad Johnson: I was hoping you would share that one.
Kenzie Olejnik: A core piece of who we are. Just seeing what the newest things are out Oreos for sure. If there’s ever a new Oreo on the market, you best believe we were trying that. But any new things that come up. We’ve done pickle-flavored cotton candy, I mean, weird stuff, but just pop in for a few minutes. We all try it. We take one bite, we rank it, and we move on with our day. So, that’s been a core thing. Team lunches, lunch and learns. Especially in the beginning, we had each department share what they were doing because a lot of it, you’re moving so fast. You know the general concept of how things work, but you don’t fully understand, gosh, what are their stressors? What am I doing that makes things harder or easier for them?
So, having an environment, the team gets a free lunch, and they all get together, which is great, but there’s so much intentionality behind that, in that cohesion that we talked about earlier, and the clarity and understanding what people do. Those were some of the biggest early on, and we still do all this.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. The One Bite challenge was cool because I think we did it one time. It was a Dave Portnoy rip-off, the guy that roams around and eats the pizza and rates it, and then we had fun with it. Put it out on social. I think I remember Jordan telling us the year that Oreo was founded.
Kenzie Olejnik: I remember that.
Brad Johnson: So, you capture some random fun team moments, and you don’t take each other too seriously. And I think that’s one of the things, like if I look back, Kenzie, you made it okay to have fun. You made it okay to be a little goofy, and you led with it. You’re like, you’d be the first one to roll in with like hotdog earrings or something for the 4th of July. And so, I think if you’re a founder out there and you’re like, “Man, our culture really has an opportunity where we could level up,” make sure the person that you put in charge of that has that energy. And in my opinion, you either do or you don’t. Kenzie, you obviously have a love for people. You have a love for connecting, creating special moments, celebrating others. It’s kind of that servant leadership.
And I’ve seen that in some of our other member firms where they’ve got kind of that Director of Ops, that person kind of plays in the culture. And I just think that’s a common theme. Because if you’re not having fun with people, you sure can and kind of infuse that into the culture. Do you have any other, like if you were to say, “Hey, here’s a profile if I was going to hire somebody to make sure we’re building the culture we want intentionally and kind of being the person in charge of that,” other things that you’d be thinking about on your side?
Kenzie Olejnik: Yeah. I mean, I definitely think there has to be a genuine want and heart there. Cheesiness definitely doesn’t hurt, I don’t think. But to build culture, you also have to be someone that will hold the line. And that is tricky too because, yes, culture is the things that birthdays, anniversaries, lunches, it’s the fun stuff, but it’s also, are we giving and receiving feedback? Are we having difficult conversations? It’s a lot of tough stuff too. And so, they have to be able to do both sides, like see both sides and execute both sides. And the latter is almost the harder part, so.
Brad Johnson: Okay. So, let’s open this can of worms. This will be good to get your take. Okay. So, one of the things we talk about at Triad when giving feedback is we want to hold love in one hand, truth in the other. Based on your opinion, Kenzie, when you got to Triad, which of those two was overweighted? Were we too heavy on the love, too heavy on the truth?
Kenzie Olejnik: I’d say the love. But again, it came from such a good, genuine place, and also, you didn’t even realize you were doing it. I know one thing we’ve talked about is a lot of firms will call themselves families, and I understand that’s normal language to use, but we’ve actually put that on like the bad word, we have a bad word list at Triad, and we put that on the bad word list because with your family, you almost can be too comfortable or maybe too forgiving or, “Oh, it’s okay, I’ll let that slide,” or, “I don’t want to have that conversation,” those types of things. When you’re a team, and you’re on a shared mission, you do have to say the hard things. You do have to have the hard conversations. You do have to give the feedback.
And so, to me, which is totally natural, but came into a family, which I get it, like, you guys were grinding, you went through some storms together to get to where you were, even when I got there. So, it’s a natural thing, but I think even the language and the mindset behind it can be really helpful for founders or leads in the family versus team and how you approach feedback.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. I’m glad you brought that up. The unintentional or intentional words you use, especially in those early days of forming and growing a business and a team, they can either serve you or unintentionally get in the way. And just to go a little deeper on the family versus team, I remember it was about right when you showed up. We had a team member at the time that it was very clear it wasn’t going to work. Weren’t doing the job they were hired for, kind of creating some internal culture issues. And I remember Shawn and I had continued to kick the can down the road as founders, like, “Uh, maybe this can turn around, maybe if we reposition in this position, sit down, have a chat.” And it just wasn’t working.
And I remember you sat down with Shawn and me, and you said, “Hey, guys, like I think we’re going to need to let somebody go.” And I know we’ve had some people that we let go before that, but like this was the first one where I think we truly went through an intentional process. And it was hard because of that whole family thing. It’s like you’ve got 15 people rolling around, and you say family, like family you don’t just boot somebody off the island. Family’s family. And that’s, I think, where we started to realize like some of the words we were using were getting in the way of the choices we needed to make as an organization.
Because a team, if you bring a team member on and they’re supposed to play a position and they don’t play that position, or they don’t play it well, or they can’t get along with teammates, they’re like, “Well, looks like this team is not a fit for you, but we hope you find another team that is.” And I think you really helped us shift during that pivotal season of Triad to just professionalize what we’re doing here. I mean, this is a job. It’s not just, “Hey, let’s all show up, hang out, have fun.” And I think one of the things, Do Business Do Life, we were probably a little too heavy on love. We were probably a little too heavy on the do life side in the early days. And it was kind of like, “No, we got to do business to earn do life.” Like, that’s kind of the proper order.
So, is there anything else? I’m kind of just rewinding a little bit, but that was definitely a massive inflection point, looking back, that I completely agree with on the verbiage.
Kenzie Olejnik: Yeah, I think just sometimes you have to remove yourself as a founder from a situation and look at it from 10,000 feet or maybe the team’s perspective. Especially in the early days, it’s really natural to feel a loyalty and a thankfulness for the people that got you there, which I completely understand. And so, it’s really natural for that to cloud your thoughts and your feelings, especially sometimes slowing down to have difficult conversations or make hard decisions. It’s like I don’t even want to do that. I want to just like keep going and building. And so, it’s really natural, but I think, yeah, it can definitely cloud your judgment and how you’re processing things.
Brad Johnson: So, let’s flip where we’ve kind of been focusing internally, Triad, the early days. And what we started to see is we would have member firms come in, we would have their whole team come in, and we’re like, “Oh, that’s the same problem Triad was happening when we were at our 10-team member, or 15-member, or 15th.” And you know, it just depended on what stage that firm was in when we met them the first time. But really quickly, these member firms would be like, “Man, we love your culture. How do we build one like this?” And I’m like, “Well, it isn’t perfect. Trust me. We have plenty of growing pains. Still do.” And that’s something with any business, the rent’s due every day. When it comes to culture, you’ve never arrived.
And I think a lot of firms, that’s the mistake they make is like, “When will our culture be good and then it’ll just be good?” It’s like, well, it’s good, and then it takes a step backwards, and then you put more effort in, and it’s kind of this constant pursuit. But I remember really quickly we’re like, “Well, Kenzie sure did help us. Why doesn’t she hop on a Zoom or a phone call with you? And maybe she can start to dig in a little bit and figure out what’s going on there.” So, you kind of accidentally fell into member coaching for us. What are some common themes you see? Like, if you just had a room full of advisors out there, what are some of the biggest maybe disconnects, needs when it comes to culture, and maybe some tips you would start to give them to steer the ship in the right direction?
Kenzie Olejnik: Yeah, I’m going to sound like a broken record a little bit, but I think, honestly, the communication and clarity that I think I’ve said several times is one of the biggest things that I see. And the problem with clarity is you don’t even realize that it’s not clear, right? And so, it’s like a blind spot, honestly. And so, it just feels like there’s this friction and like things aren’t flowing smooth but nobody really knows that it is or why it’s not. It just doesn’t feel right. Things are harder than they need to be. So, that’s a big piece of it, honestly, is the communication and the clarity. Communication is more self-explanatory, but the clarity usually is a lot around, kind of like the things I mentioned in early Triad.
Who’s responsible for what? What’s in my lane, and what’s not? And push comes to shove, like, who’s making the decision on this? How does this process work? All of those types of things. And so, I think honestly, for founders, it feels like the culture piece that wraps in the clarity and the communication feels like something that either should be easy or like, “Eh, that’ll work itself out.” That’s where it has to start. Like, if the foundation is not solid at home, your business won’t grow, and your clients will not get served at their highest capacity. Like, they just won’t. And so, I like to think of it as honestly slow down to speed up. It feels like, “Ah, this will slow us down.” No, it will propel you forward if you slow down and take the time to do it.
And so, yeah, communication, misunderstandings, I think, and even just team dynamics, it can be tricky. You are putting a group of people together that don’t know each other, and they’re trying to serve their clients well. They all have their own styles. They all have their own way of processing things and seeing things. And you’re expecting it just to work perfectly, like we’re human. It’s not going to be like that. So, there has to be a common understanding there of each other first to have that solid foundation.
Brad Johnson: So, kind of circling back there, job descriptions you mentioned, which the early days of Triad when you got here, sometimes we had them, sometimes we didn’t. I will say the ones we didn’t, it was really clear to say the issues that that created down the road, because it’s like, “Wait, what do I do? Wait, I’m supposed to be doing that. No, that person’s supposed to be doing that.” So, back to the lanes, 100%, I feel like, did we have an org chart, day one, when you got to Triad? I don’t think we did.
Kenzie Olejnik: I don’t think so.
Brad Johnson: I know you helped build kind of org chart, number one. That’s continued to evolve as the team has scaled there. So, I feel like job descriptions, hiring process, org chart, all of these help with communication and clarity. Then the other thing you helped, just looking back, when we onboarded a new Triad team member, I feel like you went above and beyond, things like you would walk out into the parking lot, meet them the very first time before they came into the office because that’s awkward. Where do I park? Where’s the office at? So, you would kind of remove friction from new team members to just make sure not only was the kind of external Triad member experience awesome. You wanted to make sure the internal team member experience was awesome.
And then I know you helped facilitate what I would call an onboarding process for new team members. Are there any key things, maybe things we’ve done, we still do, that helped kind of do mile markers on that onboarding process that advisors might benefit from out there?
Kenzie Olejnik: Yeah, I think making a job move, no matter how long you’ve been at the place where you currently are is scary. There’s buyer’s remorse. There’s, oh, should I have done this? Is this going to be good? What am I doing? What did I just do? And so, I think, one of the most important things is just keeping the communication open during that transition time. So, we have, as soon as someone signs the offer letter, they would get a video message from either you or Shawn or both of you. Hey, thanks for being on this mission with us. Can’t wait to do business and do life together.
So, using the brand language, but like from that very moment, saying like, “You made the right decision. This is going to be awesome.” And then I would continue that communication throughout the entire process every few– no matter how long their gap was in between, every few days, I’m saying, sending a text, like, so excited. How are you doing? Any questions? I’m sending emails. We’ll take you to lunch on your first day. No need to bring that. Here’s our dress code. And I would send some examples of what people wear.
They had my cell phone number. I would meet them in the parking lot, like you said. And send them a map, here’s where you’re going to park. I’ll be waiting at your parking spot. I’ll walk you in the front door. I’ll introduce you to someone. So, it’s literally that handholding throughout the process because, again, it is scary no matter how old you are or how many times you’ve changed jobs. It’s a lot. And so, trying just to take that uneasiness out. Sending them a swag bomb to their home, and here’s some new gear to rock. Like, so excited to have you, just there’s a whole calendar through their six-month mark, honestly, of intentional touches throughout the process, so…
Brad Johnson: I was trying to remember my first day. Obviously, before Triad, I remember that first day, but my two prior corporate jobs before, I don’t remember my first day. I don’t remember like riding the elevator to walk in the office. Here’s your desk. But I just think about if I was an advisor firm and I wanted to start building an awesome culture, that’s such an easy part of the journey to focus on because I don’t care if you’re 45 years old like myself, and I wouldn’t say I’m really that shy, but still, you walk into a room of strangers, everybody has that internal first day at school, new kid in class feeling.
And if you change that from apprehension into excitement and like, hey, you’re in the right place, let’s go, let me walk you in, let me introduce you, what a complete vibe change. What sort of comments did you get when you’d meet people in the parking lot or kind of walk them in with your Kinsey energy the first day? Would you kind of see the shoulders like, relax? Like, what sort of feelings did that create?
Kenzie Olejnik: I mean, I’m pretty loud, so I probably scared them to be honest. No, we would get a lot of feedback on, hey, I really appreciate you, even answering the questions I didn’t even know that I had about lunch or what to wear or what time or sending the entire onboarding schedule so they knew things in advance. Again, answering the questions they didn’t even know they had, or even this seems like a small thing, but having their desk set up and ready to go, we’d have a few of their favorite snacks. Even having their desks set up, they’re like, I’ve never, usually the computer isn’t ready yet. And that feels like, gosh, were they ready for me? Were they excited?
And so, those things seem small, but they really add up. Our team would even blow them up with text messages and video so they would get the one from founders right after they said yes. And right before their first day, their phone is blowing up. They don’t even know half of these people. And it’s probably overwhelming, but I want that, like good, be a little overwhelmed in terms of like, man, these people, they’re really excited to meet me. Yeah, we are. Like, thanks for being on this mission. You bet we are.
And so, yeah, just trying to be two steps ahead, trying to think. It’s like that mentality of, like your first day of high school and the things that you were nervous about, it’s literally the same thing. And so, got a lot of really good feedback about just, I’ve never felt so welcomed and excited.
Brad Johnson: And I know another thing and then I want to save some time for Enneagram because I know you have dedicated a lot of hours to it. So, we’re going to make sure you get busted out here. The other thing that I heard a lot of things about from new team members was you and Shawn kind of did a joint meeting for all new members, and if we onboarded like three or four employees, we kind of have a class where we do a group meeting. And did you call it a culture meeting? I don’t know what you and Shawn titled it, but it was kind of like, here’s the origin story of Triad. Here’s why we exist. Here’s what we’re about. It was almost like if you took a syringe and extracted the culture and injected it into the new team members, that’s what it felt like as a meeting. But what did you call it and what were the key things you hit and what were the impacts you saw with new team members as we onboarded them?
Kenzie Olejnik: Yeah. So, now that I think about it, not the fanciest title, Vision and Culture Meeting, that’s what we called it. But back to culture is not created on accident. It’s created with extreme intention and it’s such a big word and it means so many different things to so many different people. And so, the purpose behind creating that was we can’t leave culture up to chance. Like we all own this, but we all have to be on the same page of what it means. And so, having that meeting with every new team member that joined, yes, sharing the Triad backstory because I think that is an important part of any business. Like, why did you get into this industry? Why are you doing it? Like your team needs to know why you’re doing what you’re doing.
So, explaining that, but then also the culture dos and don’ts, what’s acceptable and what’s not. Some of the things that were shared are so elementary that even my kiddos in fifth and second grade would probably know not to do, but we would say them anyways because again, we’re not leaving it up to chance. But then also, a key part of that is new team members were in there, but also current team members. So that we were constantly cycling and filling that, the culture expectations, everyone was hearing it and it was constantly cycling through the company.
But also, it was so cool because current team members would give their spin but also give their advice of things to do and what to, yeah, just to be excited about or how to approach things. And so, that was almost my favorite part, honestly, was hearing current team members and the wisdom that they would share with new team members.
Brad Johnson: Yeah, I feel like, it’s kind of like you brought up high school. If you actually have a nice class, like juniors and seniors, upperclassmen, freshmen, it’s kind of like the big brother/big sister sort of setup, where it’s like, hey, here’s somebody that’s been here a little longer than you, going to show you the ropes. Here’s kind of how we conduct ourselves, the stuff that matters. I mean, that’s how every great community really exists. It’s like, what do we stand for? What are we about? How are we different?
And I remember, I mean, we’ve had this said a couple times, like, is this a cult? And I take that as a compliment. If this is a “cult” that makes your business and life better and helps you integrate those two and do some cool stuff to change the world of finance, I’ll sign up for that cult. But to me, that’s like what you’re trying to create as a company is a cult-like experience for the greater good. And I just want to say thank you because I know you will always deflect credit, but you really helped champion what Shawn and I wanted this place to be and how can we actually put it into motion and bring it into reality.
And you were the one that took that torch and ran with it and continue to run with it. So, I want to thank you publicly, internet, Kenzie’s amazing. I’m excited to bring her onto the show and for her to share some of internally what’s worked at Triad, externally with you all. Do you have any closing thoughts just on kind of the Triad journey before we go into a little more Enneagram and how you’ve seen that impact a lot of the member firms you’ve worked with?
Kenzie Olejnik: Yeah. I think one final thing would just be, don’t underestimate the power of the shared language. I know we talked about it a few times throughout here, but thinking back, I would get that feedback a lot when people started, but especially through the interview process, people would say, I interviewed with people from all different areas of your company, and you were all saying the same thing. Like, you’re all speaking the same language.
You answer it slightly different, like with your own authenticity behind it, but you are all saying the same thing. And so, I think creating that shared language, again, that could be a cheesy thing. It’s not. I think it actually creates a lot of unity, but making sure the mission of where you’re going and why you’re doing it has to be clear to everyone. So, I think that’s what made the language be so shared is because it was defined, but it was really clear what we were working to build.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. So, we’ve talked about this in a few past episodes, but if you don’t already have one of these, actually, Daniel Crosby and I talked about this at Future Proof, so if you’ve listened to that one, basically, we had a Triad bad words list. Kenzie already hit one. Family versus team experiences, not events; leaders, not boss or manager. What was your other one, Kenzie?
Kenzie Olejnik: Team members, not employees.
Brad Johnson: Yes. So, there were a lot. and we’ve added a few more to the list. Probably forgotten a few off the list too. But it’s really cool once you start to see that start to take hold because it really, it’s self-perpetuating to where, back to what Kenzie said, hey, it’s not myself or Shawn, my co-founder that’s in charge of the culture at Triad, this is a team sport. So, guess what? New team member, congratulations. You just came on board. You now are an ambassador of our culture as well.
And I think that just right out of the gates was one of the best things we did. We said, “Hey, all of us create the culture here. This isn’t like a top-down thing.” And then obviously, you made sure the meeting was in place to communicate that, share some of the language, all of that. Okay, time to get to the Enneagram. Let’s go.
Kenjie Olejnik: Let’s do it.
Brad Johnson: All right. So, Kenzie, so you were already aware. I remember actually, right as you were getting hired at Triad, we had brought Ian Cron in, who wrote a book around the Enneagram that wrote back to you and has done a lot of work with our team and community. And I remember you, like, you were jacked. You’re like, “Oh, I love it.” But I don’t think you could make that meeting. I think that was right as you were leaving your old job to come to Triad. But just knowing like that mattered to you, we’re not like a cult where everybody has to take an Enneagram test. There’s a lot of different assessments we use.
But I think that test more so than any other thing I’ve seen just in business, whether it’s Kolbe, whether it’s StrengthsFinder, whether it’s Myers Briggs, Enneagram, I’ve seen make a massive impact because I think it’s simple enough, nine personality types. But it’s almost like you see the best version of yourself in the mirror and when you’re not showing up as the best version of yourself in the mirror. And it really creates some clarity around that, back to clarity and communication and how to be on the same page as a team. But why do you think the Enneagram has taken hold inside of the Triad community so well?
Kenzie Olejnik: I think part of it you nailed on the head is about you can’t ignore the things that you find out from the Enneagram because it’s not just on the skills side. It’s like skills and personality combined. So, you get your results and some of it you’re like, yeah, that’s me. And others, you’re like, oh, shoot, that is totally me.
Brad Johnson: I hope that’s not me.
Kenzie Olejnik: Yeah, yeah. But oh, I know it is. Dang it. So, it’s just the realness of it and the relatability, and I think, again, nothing, there’s no one that’s better or worse. This is just a different one. But to me, it dives really deep, especially on the motivators behind the decisions that you make, which we talked about blind spots earlier. That is one of the biggest blind spots because the Enneagram actually forms more in the adolescent years. And so, it’s like this pair of glasses that you’ve had on for however long and you didn’t even know you had them on, let alone that someone else has a pair of glasses on with a different color lens.
And so, yeah, it’s really eye-opening and you almost, you just can’t ignore it because it– I have people, even the biggest skeptics about this stuff, which I totally understand, will say, yeah, I just couldn’t ignore what it said. Like it was just too true to, I had to dig in and I had to understand it better and I had to face what it said, so…
Brad Johnson: Well, and I think in all leadership, just about any business book you’ll read will say, one of the biggest keys to leadership is self-awareness. How do I actually show up when I walk in a room? Not how I hope I show up or want to show up. And to me, that’s been the biggest thing is you now have a community with their eyes a little bit more wide open. Both the strengths and the not so good qualities, they show up and it’s like, okay, I need to show up more like this, less like this. When I show up like how I don’t want to, how can I shift to where I’m not just steamrolling teammates or all of the different downsides to the numbers during their blind spots?
So, like, let’s just maybe start with Shawn and I, I’m an Enneagram 7. Shawn’s an Enneagram 3. I think you would agree we’re both pretty solidly entrenched in those numbers. Would you say that’s fair?
Kenzie Olejnik: Yes.
Brad Johnson: So, take two founders. Just you were in a lot of three-person meetings with Shawn and I in the early days, and I remember you would say, “Hey, guys, I know you’re not doing this on purpose, but Brad, you’re kind of showing up this way,” or “Shawn, you’re showing up this way.” We’re like, oh, I didn’t even realize. So, back to culture and as a leader, our whisper is a shall. Maybe just, you can play around with Shawn and I’s dynamic if you want, but you’ve worked with a lot of different founders with different Enneagram numbers. What are some common themes you see of like once you expose them to Enneagram, how it kind of changes their perspective of leadership?
Kenzie Olejnik: Yeah, I think it can be a really humbling experience, to be honest, because no one wants to hear about their blind spots. No one necessarily wants to hear about where their struggles. but I feel like it’s led to some of the biggest breakthroughs because they genuinely have no idea that that’s how they show up or that’s how they’re occurring to their team. Part of that is because no one has ever told them, right? But the Enneagram also creates, we talked earlier about a shared language. It creates a shared language where you actually understand what you’re experiencing or receiving from someone.
Sometimes you don’t even know that something’s off or you. You know you don’t like it, but you don’t know why, or why do they ask so many questions? Or why is this person not have any questions at all? Why is this person always so at 10,000 feet? Why is this person always in the weeds? It’s more of just an annoyance, like, why are they different? Like, why are they looking at it that way? But when you understand the why behind it, it makes so much more sense. And I feel like makes instead of like big disagreements, it’s just more of like a blip on the radar because you can understand where that person is coming from.
And so, when working with founder, I mean some of the most common things, they don’t realize that they’re moving so fast. They don’t realize that they’re steamrolling people. They don’t realize maybe that they’re not sharing enough information or that the team is nervous about something or doesn’t understand or that they’re not giving them the opportunity to speak into things. It’s more like, this is what we’re doing, this is how it’s going to be done. I think a lot of it, it’s really common. They’re doing it as a way to kind of help. Like, hey, I’ll make these, just kind of like follow me, trust me type of thing.
So, it comes from a good place, but not understanding, maybe they’re kind of leaving awake behind them because they’re moving too fast or making decisions and it can be a lot of different things, but again, none of it is intentional. There’s always a heart behind it. It’s just you have to put your glasses on and understand what other people are seeing too.
Brad Johnson: Yeah. I’m going to, for those watching on video, I believe this was your creation, right, Kenzie? So, this is the…
Kenzie Olejnik: With our design team, I did not have them.
Brad Johnson: You didn’t do the graphic design on this?
Kenzie Olejnik: I have the name behind it, but yeah, they are the masterminds.
Brad Johnson: So, this is the Enneagram cheat sheet, unlocking your team superpowers one number at a time. Good catchphrase there.
Kenzie Olejnik: I did not write that. Our comp team is incredible. Shout out to them.
Brad Johnson: So, we’ve got the 1 through 4 on the front here, 5 through 9. If you were to just break down those not familiar with Enneagram, I think we’re actually going to make this a deliverable for this. I don’t remember if we are or not. So, if we weren’t, I just said we were.
Kenzie Olejnik: Got it.
Brad Johnson: But this is great because it’s a little cheat sheet. I mean, the Enneagram test we’ve taken, it’s like 20 pages deep, super deep, how you show up when you’re great, how you show up when you’re not great. But for those unfamiliar with Enneagram, I don’t know that we have the time to go through every number, but if you were just to describe it, how would you explain the Enneagram nine personality types to somebody that’s unfamiliar?
Kenzie Olejnik: Yeah, I think it’s honestly just nine different ways to see the world, that people see the world and what makes them tick. And it helps you understand what’s important to that person and how they view things and how they hear them. So, knowing I could be talking to Shawn and you, you’re two different numbers. I’m saying the same thing, same time, same tone, and you both are interpreting it slightly differently without even realizing it. And I don’t realize how you’re interpreting it either.
So, it’s a tool that helps you understand that, but can really aid in communication because you can literally put yourself in their shoes and understand if I say this, no matter how perfectly I say it, this is like the voice in their head or this is the filter in which is put in front of all of the things that they hear and all of the decisions that they make and the feedback that they receive.
Brad Johnson: Well, and here’s an early way that showed up in my leadership. So, I’m an Enneagram 7, which means I’m usually okay if you’re like, hey, Brad, sorry for the last minute, but we need somebody to open up this meeting in five minutes. Will you hop on the mic and like share a couple thoughts around this? Kind of freestyle it, right? Most 7s are okay with that. Most 3s are okay with that.
An Enneagram 1 is not okay with that. So, Enneagram 1, perfectionist, they would be like a list maker, like things are in a certain way. Dishwasher has to be loaded this way, not that way. But I remember in the early days of Triad, we had an Enneagram 1 on the team and we’re like, “Hey, can you hop up on stage and just share five minutes on this?” And legitimately, it was almost like there was this anger, like, “How dare you ask me to do that?” And I was like, “Whoa. What do we do here? Where’d we go off track?”
Well, this was before of us going really deep on the Enneagram as a team. That’s like a one’s biggest fear. It’s like, I would’ve, had I been given time, I would’ve had a PowerPoint two weeks in advance. I would’ve run through multiple practice sessions. I would’ve asked a friend for advice on my presentation because they are a perfectionist. They want to be super dialed in. Just right there. If you’re aware of that as a leader and as a team member, that completely changes the dynamic of how you interact with that team member, the things you ask them to do, the lead time you give them, and like, that’s just one example.
But that’s like really clearly how the Enneagram dramatically helped our culture is you just understand different ways of processing and communicating and like how you get. It’s kind of like start with the end in mind. There’s like nine different ways to get there, depending on your Enneagram number. So, you’ve worked with a lot of teams, obviously, don’t share anything you can’t share publicly, but what are some of those other breakthroughs you’ve seen with teams as you’ve started to dig in? And truly, they get to know each other’s numbers and I know you do a lot of interactive kind of workshops to help them understand it and kind of start to put this stuff into motion.
Kenzie Olejnik: Yeah, I think one thing I’m going to circle back to language for a second is also the Enneagram, not only does it give you a tool to know how people will likely receive things, but it makes you approach the conversation with a shared language in mind. Everyone understands each number. Everyone knows what that means. And so, when you’re approaching it, it’s like that much more quickly that you can get to the desired outcome. And you can also push your team members too.
So, the example you gave with the Enneagram 1, I love that because you know to give them time, but also, it’s a way if there is something last minute that you could approach, hey, I know this isn’t your normal style. I know you like to do things in advance. I believe in you. I’m going to push you in this instance where I want you to give this presentation. I want you to get a little bit uncomfortable. You’re going to rock it. Because any of the team members, all numbers would feel different. Any of them are competent and capable and would rock that. So, part of it is you can use it as a tool to challenge your team too and to push them to grow, which is really important.
So, you talked about breakthroughs. Usually, there’s some tears involved by all different numbers. It doesn’t have to just be 2s like myself, although I do cry very easily. But yeah, just a lot of breakthroughs because, again, it’s things that you just never saw about yourself necessarily, you didn’t know, or even some relief of, oh, that’s why I want to have things in advance and I have this pressure on myself to make things perfect and get it right, or that’s why I get annoyed by this or challenged by this.
Even we have a lot of spouses in the business and I get that feedback a lot, like you, not me, but the Enneagram has really impacted our marriage. Like, I understand this person that I’ve been with for 25 years completely differently just based on this. So, it’s deep-rooted things that I see a lot of breakthroughs with.
Brad Johnson: I mean, I personally, Sarah, I think if she was on here, she would share that too. We were first introduced to the Enneagram by Michael Hyatt. He brought Ian Cron out to kind of, it was like a marriage retreat basically, and within a one-day workshop, we’d been married for 10 years at that point, I was like, where was this 10 years ago? This would’ve been nice because a lot of those, I feel like, you look at conflict among spouses, significant others. I mean, oftentimes, you’ve got like partnerships in the office that, at the end of the day, they’re interpersonal relationships and it’s how well you communicate during the good times and during conflict.
And what the Enneagram unlocked for me, specifically in my marriage is like, oh, Sarah’s not just trying to be on the other side of, oh, Brad wants to do this, she wants to do this. That’s opposite. She’s actually processing information differently, and if we actually synthesize it, we end up in a better place. Your differences are your strengths, right? If you allow them to be. And I think oftentimes, what I see both, whether it’s business or life, those differences become a tug of war that you get stalemated and pissed off at the other person.
And it’s almost like the Enneagram gives you this framework, oh, they’re not just doing this to make me have a rough day. They actually are literally processing this completely different, same conversation. I know you have witnessed a ton of those. Do you have one that comes out in your mind where you’re like, just by understanding different Enneagram numbers immediately, they were like, the aha happened like in session?
Kenzie Olejnik: Oh, gosh, there’s so many.
Brad Johnson: Pick your favorite.
Kenzie Olejnik: Yeah. One of the first that comes to mind is, it was actually one of the very first offices that asked me to come out and we did an Enneagram session. And I remember asking, what’s your main goal? Your culture seems pretty good. People are vibing. What else are you wanting? And they said, I want people to get real. I feel like we are surface level good. I want to be like next level good.
And there was a team member for two or three years that they had been trying to just like, I don’t understand, he’s just private. I want to get to know him better. I feel, I don’t know if he likes it here. I think he does, I don’t know. Just get to know the real him. And there were some tears with that one and some breakthroughs. And even I could just see he felt lighter. Like, oh, I finally don’t have this shield or this mask up. He told me after, I just feel like I’m actually myself. And so, that’s probably one of my favorites. It was one of the first and one that I’ll never forget.
Brad Johnson: What was that number, out of curiosity?
Kenzie Olejnik: They were a 6.
Brad Johnson: A 6. Interesting. All right, well, this time’s gone really fast.
Kenzie Olejnik: I know.
Brad Johnson: I feel like we need a part two already and we haven’t even finished part one. Anything else just around Enneagram, around just better communication among team leading to better culture, just things we haven’t hit on that you wish we would’ve gotten to?
Kenzie Olejnik: I think just don’t underestimate the importance of filling up your team. They say, you can’t pour from an empty cup. Your team can’t pour into your clients and build your business and make it grow if they are not poured into first. And as a founder, that is your job. And even if that’s not your skill, that’s okay, but finding the people to do it. I think don’t underestimate just having that strong foundation at home, at home base, home office. And that doesn’t mean huge, free lunch every day and all. Like, it doesn’t mean all of this. It’s just about being intentional about knowing your people and about listening.
Brad Johnson: So true. So, I’ll double down on that because I think a lot of founders, their core intention, number one, they want to build an amazing business. They want the people that work there to enjoy it. And also, I’ve sometimes seen in this pursuit of building a business bigger than me. Once it gets to a certain level, they’re like, oh, cool, it’s good. It’s running. I’ll just leave. I’ll go on vacation over here for three months. And that’s not how it works. That’s called being an absent CEO.
And to your point, inspiration and vision, which obviously fuels that culture you’re talking about, you can’t outsource that until the day that you’re no longer required to work at the firm. Like, if you’re a board member only, shareholder, where you’ve kind of hired yourself out of that job, you can do it then. But I think the biggest thing you can build a great business, the team can get bigger, but as a founder, you are the team captain, right? You’re in the middle of that team huddle and the team’s looking at you and they’re like, where are we going? Why are we here? What’s the vision? How are we getting there?
And I couldn’t agree more. Like, you can’t outsource that at the end of the day. And that’s one of the biggest disconnects I see from a lot of founders. It’s like, how do I not do this anymore? Well, you not do it anymore when you don’t have a business. That’s how you not do it, so…
Kenzie Olejnik: Well, in treating your team members the same way you treat your top clients, love on your team, just like you do your clients. You want your clients to be responded to quickly and accurately. And if you get them swag, get your team swag, like, treat your team like your clients first, and then they will treat your clients well too.
Brad Johnson: Yeah, it’s the old, put your own oxygen mask on first. And I use that analogy, it’s like, love on your team. Your team loves on your clients, in that order. And a lot of people, kind of the old school mentality of the client is always right. Oh, client’s always right. Yeah, they called in, yelled at three team members, cussed at two of them, but whatever, we got to serve them. They’re our client. That’s how you build a horrible culture. That’s how you build a culture that those people aren’t here a month from now.
So, a lot of times, businesses accidentally get that out of order. It’s team, then client. Love on team. They love on client. Couldn’t agree more. Okay, well, there’s just one final question I have for you, Kenzie. I mean, you helped create Do Business. Do Life. So, I would love to hear, what is your personal definition, what’s Kenzie’s definition of doing business and doing life?
Kenzie Olejnik: Honestly, I think it’s just loving what you’re doing and loving who you’re doing it with. Being proud, being authentic, being yourself, and yeah, just feeling good about what you’re doing every single day and doing it with a group of people that you would do anything for. There’s nothing better than being aligned on the business side and the life side and just being authentically yourself in both of those places. That’s the biggest throw, and some Enneagrams and some hot dogs and my family, I’m good to go.
Brad Johnson: Well, it’s been a joy to build Triad alongside of you. Could not have gotten this far without you, so thanks for pouring your heart and soul into Triad. I know the team feels that way about you, and I know a number of our member firms, you’re going to– this one’s going to be on repeat because of everything that you’ve done to pour into our member firms as well and help them with their culture. So, thanks for always playing out, always loving on the team, always loving on our members, and we probably are going to need a round two eventually, but we’ll call today at this one. So, thanks, Kenzie.
Kenzie Olejnik: Sounds good. I made it till the end, until the tier, so that’s pretty good for me. Thanks Brad.
Brad Johnson: All right, till next time. We’ll see you.
Kenzie Olejnik: Bye.
